Destroid or Veritech?

[Fyrpower]

Hmm..check this out

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/YAMATO-1-100-KOENIG-MONSTER-MACROSS-ROBOTECH_W0QQitemZ280214592645QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280214592645

A transformable Mach II?

[tgunner91]

It's a munchkin's fondest Macross dream made real... disturbingly real...

Cool model at the very least, and totally noncannon! If it was real then it would give a WHOLE new meaning to the concept of shoot 'n scoot.

[Colonel Wolfe]

ahh, the Stupid Monster Variable fighter...
@ least Robotech never went that far off the Deep end.

[taalismn]

ahh, the Stupid Monster Variable fighter...
@ least Robotech never went that far off the Deep end.

I dunno...I find it kinda cute...

[taalismn]

ahh, the Stupid Monster Variable fighter...
@ least Robotech never went that far off the Deep end.

I dunno...I find it kinda cute...

Indeed... who's building the REF MAC III version with the optional Hovertank Legios-style attachment?

Hey, it's got possibilities; a triple-changer (with the traditional 'MAC' mode actually the 'Guardian' mode)...I'm picturing something with Zentraedi fighter pod thrusters and wings...put the hand manipulators on the back of the gun arms, mount fold out wings outboard of the arms..Only problematic part is the missile launcher in the front...in full-out Battloid mode...well, remember the snickers about the Rifts robots' 'crotch guns'? The gag here might be 'missile envy'....
From a purely artistic point of view, this could be fun...

[devillin]

It's a munchkin's fondest Macross dream made real... disturbingly real...

Cool model at the very least, and totally noncannon! If it was real then it would give a WHOLE new meaning to the concept of shoot 'n scoot.

Supposedly a variation will show up in Macross Frontier.

[taalismn]

Indeed... who's building the REF MAC III version with the optional Hovertank Legios-style attachment?

Hey, it's got possibilities; a triple-changer (with the traditional 'MAC' mode actually the 'Guardian' mode)...I'm picturing something with Zentraedi fighter pod thrusters and wings...put the hand manipulators on the back of the gun arms, mount fold out wings outboard of the arms..Only problematic part is the missile launcher in the front...in full-out Battloid mode...well, remember the snickers about the Rifts robots' 'crotch guns'? The gag here might be 'missile envy'....
From a purely artistic point of view, this could be fun...

You could always make the missiles unavailable in Battloid mode. Saves the 3-person crew from yelling "Crotch Missiles, Fox 3!"

Ah...but think of the boasting the guys could get in...

[Beatmeclever]

It's ironic to say that, since Robotech imported Mospeada's Tread, which was a transformable bomber. The big difference between them: the Macross variable bomber suspend less disbelief when someone says it flies.

Excellent point!
Beta Fighter in Bomber Mode (from kent.net)
Height: 20ft (6.1 m)
Width: 64ft (19.5 m)
Weight: 14 tons without missiles, 19.5 tons loaded

Konig Monster Shuttle/Bomber Mode
HEIGHT: 6.77 m in Bomber configuration.
WIDTH: 24.42 m wing span.
LENGTH: 29.78 m in Bomber configuration.
WEIGHT: 101,900 kg empty.. (ouch that's a weighty meat-a-ball!)

So the dimensions are similar-ish .. but their roles a decidedly different

It is true that the Konig Monter Shuttle would be hard to see in flight, but the Beta is worse than the old F-4 when it comes to aerodynamics. Try to keep in mind, if you are having a problem with the weight of the K-Monster, that the C-5 weighs 380,000 lbs empty (that's 190 tons!) and the B-52 (a bomber) weighs 185,000 lbs (92.5 tons) and that 101,900 kg is 224,180 lbs (112.09 tons). I wouldn't be so worried about the weight of the thing as much as the shape of the thing.

[taalismn]

I remember creating an REF MAC IV back in the day.

It was basically a MAC III, but the feet tucked into the main body, the arms could lock in place and support wings, and the whole thing had a giant vernier array on its backside and hoverjets on its underside.

It couldn't fly very fast, but it was capable of making an orbital drop on its own and providing rapid deployment firebase capabilities.

Ah, so I'm travelling in the path of giants, eh?

Well, I'll have to improve on that..

[Drakenred®™©]

a 40cm Railguns maybee but given that it looks like the Barels are chargeing up for an energy blast who knows

[Arnie100]

Please do not link to sites featuring conversiosn of copywritten material to Palladium stats. Check your board rules for detail.

Ooops!!! I forgot, sorry! Really!

[Colonel Wolfe]

It's ironic to say that, since Robotech imported Mospeada's Tread, which was a transformable bomber. The big difference between them: the Macross variable bomber suspend less disbelief when someone says it flies.

Excellent point!
Beta Fighter in Bomber Mode (from kent.net)
Height: 20ft (6.1 m)
Width: 64ft (19.5 m)
Weight: 14 tons without missiles, 19.5 tons loaded

Konig Monster Shuttle/Bomber Mode
HEIGHT: 6.77 m in Bomber configuration.
WIDTH: 24.42 m wing span.
LENGTH: 29.78 m in Bomber configuration.
WEIGHT: 101,900 kg empty.. (ouch that's a weighty meat-a-ball!)

So the dimensions are similar-ish .. but their roles a decidedly different

you forget the Beta is Much shorter in Lenght in comparison to hits Width with Wings extended. also the "Battloid" mode of the Beta is much shorter. the "Monster" also is 3x heavier then the Beta, and really Lacks Substancial Wings in compasison to the Beta.
The monster has Substancial "Cool" factor, everyone loves the Behemoth Monster.... and how is it not "ccol" for it to xform.... but its still silly to me.

[Colonel Wolfe]

we have it already.
Super Beta.
Stealth, Synchro-Beam Canon.
the 4x Beam guns on the Konig Monster are sweet thou.

[Drakenred®™©]

Like Beatmeclever pointed out, it's not the weight that's the issue, it's the shape. There is a real-life Russian bomber that weighs more than the Koenig Monster and still flies. Supersonic.

(Tu-160) Max declasified take off weight is 275 t (606,000 lb)

Endeavour, (OV-105)
Empty Weight: 151,205 lb (68,586.6 kg)
Gross Liftoff Weight: 240,000 lb (109,000 kg)
Maximum Landing Weight: 230,000 lb (104,000 kg)

[Novastar]

Didn't the transformable Bomber/MAC's show up first in the VF-X and VF-X2 video games?

[Novastar]

VF-X2

I own a copy of and have played VF-X. It was a fun game for its time, but it didn't have the Konig in it. That was VF-X2.

Color me officially jealous!
(I remember really looking forward to VF-X2 being released Stateside...then they cancelled it. )

[taalismn]

Ok, an Ultra Beta, then. I doubt the Super Beta is large enough to link with a MAC either.

Do some chopping on an old surplus Horizont-T...get rid of the 'swan neck', move the cockpit further back to rest on top of the main body, substitute some of the bunker-lift weight for extra thrusters, long-legged landing gear, and some missile capacity..The REF Veri-MAC can lock to the front underside like the Nostromo...

[Drakenred®™©]

See, though, now we're getting into the discussion of transformable starships.

Granted, there's certainly precident for that in Robotech, but we haven't seen it done since the SDF-1.

And thoes discussions start to get weird when you stat out a ship that can have a sholder mounted Izumo.

[taalismn]

I wouldn't consider the Horizon to be a starship...an auxiliary, maybe, but not a starship..

But you got me thinking of maybe a 'Trilobite' mechanized version of the Zentraedi Theatre Scout with better leg articulation and weaponry...

[taalismn]

See, though, now we're getting into the discussion of transformable starships.

Granted, there's certainly precident for that in Robotech, but we haven't seen it done since the SDF-1.

And thoes discussions start to get weird when you stat out a ship that can have a sholder mounted Izumo.

Heck, after the "Full Armor Izumo Mode", you're more or less obligated to give it a "blazing sword", too!

HA! Heck no! My SuperDimensional SDF-McMunchkin uses a shoulder launcher to launch Izumo PROJECTILES!! I use ShadowGarfish Cruisers as torpedoes! I use...

Oh wow...that anti-psychotic medication really kicks in...

[Aramanthus]

ROFLMAO!! That was a great one Taalismn! Now where did people ever see any pics of the Izumo transforming? I know I do not own any books with those illustrations!

[taalismn]

ROFLMAO!! That was a great one Taalismn! Now where did people ever see any pics of the Izumo transforming? I know I do not own any books with those illustrations!

I think the RDF HQ Communications Center carried that discussion awhile ago...probably any pictures of the proposed transformation have since linked off and are no longer usable...

[taalismn]

It would be refreshing to see a Modular Transformation in the upcoming series. Even if it would break all barriers between Macross and Mospeada, I think it would be a very good thing.

Probably the best we can hope for is the Shadow Garfish with its 'jaws'....

Still, if the capital ships were more modular...variable configurations, faster upgrades...akin to what the Garfish has with its lower fuselage bay, albeit on a grander and more radical scale...I'd get rid of those dopey looking Crusader Dropships on the SDF-3 and replace them with something more formidable-looking and effective...

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

The Konig Monster is dumb. If it were either/or it would be a decent vehicle: new version of the Monster or a Bomber. But to make it a Variable Bomber is....how shall we say....wasteful? It wont be able to carry enough ordnance to offset all that space dedicated to reaction mass and the transformation equipment. I imagine it would also have to have relatively thin armour plating to sustain that weight when it converts to Battroid mode.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

*cough* Helicopter in space*cough*

Excuse me? Please enlighten me as to where the Ajax is used as a Helicopter in space?

*cough*Tank with no canopy*cough*...... sorry.

Canopies are on fighter aircraft, so I fail to see the relevance of this statement.

[Snuffy]

ahh, the Stupid Monster Variable fighter...
@ least Robotech never went that far off the Deep end.

and here we have the SDF-1

I did see somewhere they are introducing a similar design in Macross Frontier.

[Colonel Wolfe]

The Konig Monster is dumb.

*cough* Helicopter in space*cough* *cough*Tank with no canopy*cough*...... sorry.

step1:Poster 1: "something" in Macross is dumb.
Step2:Poster 2: "somehinng else" in Robotech is dumb too.
Step3: Repeat 1 & 2

as a Robotech fan i have a hard time likeing anything in Macross.
Robotech is what drew me to this style of Anime Fandom, new Macross series will and alwasy will be just re-hashes of the Origonal SDF-Macross, that fine if you like the same thing with a diffrent label, I just prefer somethign that changes over time, Evolves and is over all more interesting.
Magical-Singing/Spirita isn't what i'm looking for in Sci-fi anime.
and a big problem i have with macross is the Mac-fans who Slam Robotech and HG for being in buisness, and not rolling over to the Japanesse companies for state-side Macross copyrights.

this Konig Monster is a Perfect example of the Rehash ability of Sojuuin when he is designing Macross stuff. Dont want to make a new design, just make an old one into a new one.... Variable-Monster... WTG ....

[Ice Dragon]

Nice - but it destroys my image of the MAC II

[Drakenred®™©]

I hear it's making an appearance in Macross Frontier. If so they must have ironed the kinks out in the last 50 years.

Or they're going back to Macross' roots as a parody anime. It was, afterall, such a parody of its genre that it ended up accidentally redefining the genre.

I mean, seriously. Coke can missiles? The list goes on and on from there...

Actualy it was Project A-KO that hadthe coke cans added to the missle volley. Macross just had the Giant Coke billboard

[Sgt Anjay]

I hear it's making an appearance in Macross Frontier. If so they must have ironed the kinks out in the last 50 years.

Or they're going back to Macross' roots as a parody anime. It was, afterall, such a parody of its genre that it ended up accidentally redefining the genre.

I mean, seriously. Coke can missiles? The list goes on and on from there...

Actualy it was Project A-KO that hadthe coke cans added to the missle volley. Macross just had the Giant Coke billboard

SDF:Macross-DYRL had coke can missiles, as well as several other easter eggs added to its missile volleys.

[Drakenred®™©]

dangit not I need to dig up my copy and play it again!

[Aramanthus]

I remeber watching the coke can missiles. I also thought there were some pepsi can missiles too.

[drewkitty ~..~]

its a mobile artilery

[drewkitty ~..~]

The kong monster is not robotech so it can't be a Veritech, and it's transforms so it can't be a destroid, and its not a fighter so its not a Variable fighter ether. However, its designation is VB-6, so it would be a Variable <something>. Battleship, bombarder, ..... so to call it mobil artilary is most apt. Nothing like Mobil Infantry from Heinline's Starship Troopers (book). The movie is a whole other animal.

[DhAkael]

Koenig Monster is canon now.. cuz the directors say so

[drewkitty ~..~]

Te thing I liked about how it was shown in MF was that the Battleship it landed on called out a "brace for shockwave' to its crew before it fired. That right there shows how powerful it's mass drivers are. Even with the they showed the deck of the ship buckle like a honda crashing into a wall.

[taalismn]

I have looked at all the line art I can find but I cannot tell if the rear thrusters become the firing chambers or they fold down somwhere dose anybody know?

Anime Physics at work...IF they are part of the cannon assembly, then maybe they're not massdrivers but electrothermic cannons that use a plasma reaction to drive the projectiles....That way, through some tricky engineering, you could also use the firing chambers as drive thrusters....

[Colonel Wolfe]

Col Wolfe is a Macross hater... no doubt. Given up trying to argue it with him. Personally I never like the segment on SC, which I found at best, a very bad mesh into the RT series.

[The Artist Formerly]

In the Macross arc of Robotech we have two seperate situtations displaying Zentraedi/RT masters's anti-gravity fields. The SDF-1 launch in which they tear free of the SDF, and the Zentraedi we're too lazy to walk pod that Breetai and Exdore roll through some exposition on. Well, float through some exposition on. Weight probably isn't that big a deal. Nor is wing span, I recall a real life Israeli F-15 losing it's wing mid flight, and the pilot still being able to land his machine.

-15 LOSES WING IN MID-AIR COLLISION - LANDS SAFELY!

This is a story about an Israeli F-15 that lost its wing - and still
managed to stay airborne!...(pics below)...

"On May 1st. 1983, a simulated dogfight training took place between two
F-15D's and four A-4N Skyhawks over the skies of the Negev. The F-15D
(# 957, nicknamed 'Markia Shchakim', 5 killmarks) was used for the conversion
of a new pilot in the squadron. Here is the description of the event as
described in "Pressure suit":

At some point I collided with one of the Skyhawks, at first I didn't
realize it. I felt a big strike, and I thought we passed through the jet
stream of one of the other aircraft. Before I could react, I saw the big
fire ball created by the explosion of the Skyhawk. The radio started to
deliver calls saying that the Skyhawk pilot has ejected, and I understood
that the fire ball was the skyhawk, that exploded, and the pilot was
ejected automatically.

There was a tremendous fuel stream going out of the wing, and I understood
it was badly damaged. The aircraft flew without control in a strange
spiral. I re-connected the electric control to the control surfaces, and
slowly gained control on the aircraft until I was straight and level again.
It was clear to me that I had to eject. When I gained control I said :
"Hey, wait, don't eject yet!". No warning light was on and the navigation
computer worked as usual; I just needed a warning light in my panel to
indicate that I missed a wing..." The instructor ordered me to eject.
The wing is a fuel tank, and the fuel indicator showed 0.000 so I assumed
that the jet stream sucked all the fuel out of the other tanks. However, I
remembered that the valves operate only in one direction, so that I might
have enough fuel to get to the nearest airfield and land.

I worked like a machine, wasn't scared and didn't worry. All I knew was
as long as the sucker flies, I'm gonna stay inside. I started to decrease
the airspeed, but at that point one wing was not enough. So I went into a
spin down and to the right. A second before I decided to eject, I pushed
the throttle and lit the afterburner. I gained speed and thus got control
of the aircraft again. Next thing I did was lowering the arresting hook.
A few seconds later I touched the runway at 260 knots, about twice the
recommended speed, and called the tower to erect the emergency recovery
net. The hook was torn away from the fuselage because of the high speed,
but I managed to stop 10 meters before the net.

I turned back to shake the hand of my instructor, who urged me to eject,
and then I saw it for the first time - no wing !!!

The IAF (Israeli Air Force) contacted McDonnel Douglas and asked for
information about possibility to land an F-15 with one wing . MD replied
that this is aerodynamically impossible, as confirmed by computer
simulations... Then they received the photo....

After two months the same F-15 got a new wing and returned to action.
McDonnel Douglas attributes the saving of this aircraft to the amount of
lift generated by the engine intake/body and "A Hell of a good Pilot"."

And that's without robotechnology or protoculture.

[Colonel Wolfe]

However, this I will enjoy: It was a space heliocopter. Footage of it, in space, in the original SD:SC proves it, as does the lineart, as does the very discription of the idiotic thing.

footage in the OSM has no bearing on something found in Robotech.
this particulare debate has been beaten into the ground and needs not be rehashed here.

Back to things I enjoy? I still hate you Wolfe and ASC fan - hate you with all the taint in my tiny little soul.

its not polite to tell another person you hate them... its called trolling/flamebating

[Rathorc Lemenger]

Acctually, it would be classified as a Veritech, since it's a transforming mecha. If seen it on a website that I like to go to, that also has the stats for it.

Signed,
Rathorc Lemenger.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

I still hate you Wolfe and ASC fan - hate you with all the taint in my tiny little soul.

Well, I hate you too Alexander. Want a hug to feel better?

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Acctually, it would be classified as a Veritech, since it's a transforming mecha.

Nope, Veritech does not mean transforming mecha anymore. The Sylphide is called a Veritech 3 separate times in Robotech and Tommy says it doesn't transform. Veritech just means 'advanced fighter' apparently.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Actually, it would be classified as a Veritech, since it's a transforming mecha. If seen it on a website that I like to go to, that also has the stats for it.

Signed,
Rathorc Lemenger.

The Konig Monster

It is a part of the Macross series, it is classified as a variable bomber, VB-6.

It is not classified as a Veritech because it is not from Robotech.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Since you've brought up "what things are called in the anime", when was the "Sylphide" called the Sylphide in the anime?

EDIT: Flaming and Trolling comment removed. User has been warned! - NMI

[Lt. Holmes]

How about we agree that the Koing Monster is crap and leave it at that? It embodies all the worst aspects of the Macross storyline, that is the absolute Munchkinism that the mecha have become.

[Lt. Holmes]

How about we agree that the Koing Monster is crap and leave it at that? It embodies all the worst aspects of the Macross storyline, that is the absolute Munchkinism that the mecha have become.

But...... I want one...... they're sexier than the Beta.

Heathen.

[Lt. Holmes]

And I'll dispute the Munchkinism levels of Macross Frontier mecha as it seems 1000yr old Zentraedi powerarmour are able to hold their own in combat and firepower (the male power armour's shoulder cannon) with the VF-25. The technological advance of the Armoured platform being able to transform with the Valkyrie is just a sign of the times.

See, for me it's a case of just too darned much. Macross 7 was bad enough with its more outragous mecha, but the real breaker was how the ship transformed and used its main gun as a hand-held rifle! That, the Koing, the new VF-25... they're all far too munchy for my liking. It's one of the reasons I prefer Robotech

[Protoculture]

But I was just looking at the MAcross ARtbook the other day... There are some incredibly Silly Macross 7 Mecha... And All the macross frontier designs already appeared in VFX-2 Video game.

For all the silliness, Macross fans loved 'em so much so Kawamori-san aka 'The Hory Froating Head' decides to kickstart Macross fanchise with rich visual fest that is Macross Zero (Focker is BACHHH!) & that ultimately leads to Macross Frontier series. Seriously, its darn beautiful to the eyes, something that RT franchise hardpressed to compete.

Unless, of course, if WB (through HD discreation & Tatsunoko urging) sits down with Big West & Kawamori in regards of RT: Live Action Movie, & worked ou a new deal .... like getting Macross F to be butche ... uhhh .... edited / adapted as part of RT new installment.

Who knows, right?

Although I'm more partial towards Macross II than Macross F. Macross II has that RT vibe .... grand space mecha slugfest, singing alien chicks, giant aliens, Earth get hammered .... near phyrric victory at the end.