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I just wanted to hear some of your thoughts regarding Telemechanics. I often wonder why it is considered a super psionic power. You can't inflict any megadamage with it, or anything like that. What clever uses have you (or your players) dreamed up for this power?

I've noticed that Telemechanics is also available in the Fantasy line, but have never had a player actually use it. Though I did once, to assist my player in figuring out how to use a dwarven contraption they'd come across. But it really doesn't have much use there, that I've ever seen. (I mean come on, only one use in twenty years of playing?)

Moved to a more appropriate forum.

I've seen Telemechanics as more a tool then anything else.

Use to diagnose problem with machine
Gain insight to how machine works
Repair machine (see above)
Steal technology (see above)

This could go on and on. But I see it's use more from a TW's point of view. Telemechanics gives you a 80% knowledge of the machine, and so you can just start working on a machine or like above steal technology by just touching. Because really you combine this with total recall, and you're set.

I don't allow TM to combine with TR; I view it as an empathic understanding of the machine, not a schematic. While TM is up, you "grok" how the machine feels... you know that if you push it like "this" it works better and if you push it like "that" it'll do things a little different... without the TM link, though, you lose those sensations.

MrNexx wrote:I don't allow TM to combine with TR; I view it as an empathic understanding of the machine, not a schematic. While TM is up, you "grok" how the machine feels... you know that if you push it like "this" it works better and if you push it like "that" it'll do things a little different... without the TM link, though, you lose those sensations.

i can grok what your sayn brother. i like it when players combine certain powers but sometimes it gets rediculous and this one of those moments in my opinion. good explanation as to why they don't work together.
nice "Stranger" ref.
want to share water? lol

MrNexx wrote:I don't allow TM to combine with TR; I view it as an empathic understanding of the machine, not a schematic. While TM is up, you "grok" how the machine feels... you know that if you push it like "this" it works better and if you push it like "that" it'll do things a little different... without the TM link, though, you lose those sensations.

Sorry,but read the TM discription in RUE it say its almost as if the character has a schematic in head

Scrud wrote:

MrNexx wrote:I don't allow TM to combine with TR; I view it as an empathic understanding of the machine, not a schematic. While TM is up, you "grok" how the machine feels... you know that if you push it like "this" it works better and if you push it like "that" it'll do things a little different... without the TM link, though, you lose those sensations.

Sorry,but read the TM discription in RUE it say its almost as if the character has a schematic in head

First of all, I believe that I was fairly clear in stating it was an opinion. I'm sorry that I failed to have it walk up to you and hit you with a trout, but I usually use words such as "I don't allow" and "I view" to indicate an opinion, given the nature of the nature of the English language and my lack of ability to mount a trout-launcher on the side of your monitor.

Secondly, the ability is QUITE clear about the role of Total Recall after the link is severed. It says "(although a Total Recall would be able to call up small bits of info)." Page 183 of the RUE; page 179 of PFRPG 2nd edition; page 314 of HU 2nd edition. Beyond the Supernatural, 2nd edition, page 106 goes into more detail, saying "and using Total Recall should enable the character to call up additional small bits of key info and details for up to about 48 hours after accessing the computer files, but after that it's all a blur." However, that's clearly in the context of computing.

In either case, "small bits of info" does not, in my interpretation, translate to Spark's "steal technology by just touching", which would be the real use of combining Total Recall and Telemechanics (since, if it's in your possession, you don't need Total Recall to remember what it's schematics are like).

K20A2_S wrote:If you have telemechanics and all the necessary math/mechanical/armorer skills would you allow a PC to modify a weapon to say, fire 25 shots for every burst instead of 20. Just to make it a little custom and add some extra damage?

I'd say so; personally, I'd say TM should either give you 88% or a flat bonus, whichever is better.

Scrud wrote:Sorry,but read the TM discription in RUE it say its almost as if the character has a schematic in head

IMO i'd agree Scrud. The telemechanics power gives you the scematic in your mind and under the TW creation rules, they add a modifier to the roll if you use total recall in place of a schematic. It's only a -10%. I don't see why this couldn't be used with other creation methods.

One of the old uses for Telemech is being able to pilot a Power armor as if
you had Power armor combat elite. if you had that already, then you'd
double the bonuses; just for the Power armor you had that in. in the least
you'd get Power armor combat basic. This is supported by the old Mechanoids sourcebook. Hagan Lonovich.
G

Grandil wrote:One of the old uses for Telemech is being able to pilot a Power armor as if
you had Power armor combat elite. if you had that already, then you'd
double the bonuses; just for the Power armor you had that in. in the least
you'd get Power armor combat basic. This is supported by the old Mechanoids sourcebook. Hagan Lonovich.
G

1.
2. That was because Hagan's armor was specifically designed by Archie to work with his telemechanics.
If you're just wearing normal power armor, then Telemechanics gives no bonuses, and Archie is the only one who knows how to design the power armor that works with the power.

My main issue with the power is that in groups with skill based characters, the psychic can sort of lord over them all, at least until the ISP run out. I had players either complaining that their character wasn't special enough or that TM was too powerful, when they re-rolled as a psychic I almost banned the power altogether.

It's a great power when you don't have techie people, or you need someone to fill in. However when you start overshadowing all the class abilities of another class with 1 power, you tend to upset the fun of the game.

Perhaps they should quit whining and find ways to use those skills of theirs. It's not the player with Telemechanics' fault that he's smarter or more imaginative then they are.

Nikoli wrote:My main issue with the power is that in groups with skill based characters, the psychic can sort of lord over them all, at least until the ISP run out. I had players either complaining that their character wasn't special enough or that TM was too powerful, when they re-rolled as a psychic I almost banned the power altogether.

It's a great power when you don't have techie people, or you need someone to fill in. However when you start overshadowing all the class abilities of another class with 1 power, you tend to upset the fun of the game.

One thing to keep in mind is that TM is great for repairs and use... it sucks for upgrades, because the person with TM doesn't have the knowledge (often) to apply it.

Mark Hall wrote:

Nikoli wrote:My main issue with the power is that in groups with skill based characters, the psychic can sort of lord over them all, at least until the ISP run out. I had players either complaining that their character wasn't special enough or that TM was too powerful, when they re-rolled as a psychic I almost banned the power altogether.

It's a great power when you don't have techie people, or you need someone to fill in. However when you start overshadowing all the class abilities of another class with 1 power, you tend to upset the fun of the game.

One thing to keep in mind is that TM is great for repairs and use... it sucks for upgrades, because the person with TM doesn't have the knowledge (often) to apply it.

Also, it has a limited duration.

it should be rewritten to give some sort of piloting proficiency, not on par with Hagan, but something. It's just to vague as is.

cyber-yukongil v2.5 wrote:it should be rewritten to give some sort of piloting proficiency, not on par with Hagan, but something. It's just to vague as is.

It does give you piloting proficiency... a skill equal to 88%. You don't have any special training in the weapons systems, making the most of your powered jumps, or anything like that... you can fly, read the sensors, and things like that. If you have to make a sharp turn, you can. If you have to dodge, you're on your own skill.

they have something similar

it's called a psi-tech

I recently used Telemechanics to destroy a mega juicer. Made his drug harness dump all it's chemicals into his bloodstream. He burnt out super fast (within a melee) and exploded!
In the same fight I used it again to stop a Titan juicer's harness from distributing drugs at all, but he was slain before we got to see the effects.

I'm surprised the GM let you get away with that, since that stunt seems more appropriate for either Telemechanic Mental Operation or Telemechanic Paralysis. And even then, many people consider a bio-comp harness to be a cybernetic device, and therefore immune to the power. Personally, if I were to allow it to work at all, there would be a saving throw.

Well, ya technically it was Telemech Paralysis. And there was a saving throw, GM didn't anounce it just rolled and gave the description.
I never even considered the "bio-comp is a cybernetic device" angle. Honestly, I dont think it is. Recently I was in the hospital and had an IV drip. I sure didn't considder that a cyernetic implant.

asajosh wrote:Well, ya technically it was Telemech Paralysis. And there was a saving throw, GM didn't anounce it just rolled and gave the description.
I never even considered the "bio-comp is a cybernetic device" angle. Honestly, I dont think it is. Recently I was in the hospital and had an IV drip. I sure didn't considder that a cyernetic implant.

an iv drip...yes i agree...not a cyber device....a subcutaneous implanted micro computer control system...thats a cybernetic device...IMO

asajosh wrote:Well, ya technically it was Telemech Paralysis. And there was a saving throw, GM didn't anounce it just rolled and gave the description.
I never even considered the "bio-comp is a cybernetic device" angle. Honestly, I dont think it is. Recently I was in the hospital and had an IV drip. I sure didn't considder that a cyernetic implant.

The bio-comp is actually surgically implanted into the body...which is why it has to be removed in order for a juicer to successfully come off the drugs...it keeps the body pumping out endorphins and adrenal products at a drastically increased rate.

As for the IV drip...it wouldn't be considered a cybernetic implant...unless it was an implanted drug dispenser.

Borast wrote:

asajosh wrote:Well, ya technically it was Telemech Paralysis. And there was a saving throw, GM didn't anounce it just rolled and gave the description.
I never even considered the "bio-comp is a cybernetic device" angle. Honestly, I dont think it is. Recently I was in the hospital and had an IV drip. I sure didn't considder that a cyernetic implant.

The bio-comp is actually surgically implanted into the body...which is why it has to be removed in order for a juicer to successfully come off the drugs...it keeps the body pumping out endorphins and adrenal products at a drastically increased rate.

As for the IV drip...it wouldn't be considered a cybernetic implant...unless it was an implanted drug dispenser.

Difference of opinion I guess, my cousin has an insulin dispencer implanted in his body with an external hookup to attach his supply (closest real world analog I could think of on the fly, but its essentially the same as a Bio-Comp, just not as advanced). Good for 3-4 days under normal conditions. I don't think that qualifies him as a cyborg. But by your deffinition it would. Tomatoe/tomato.
I guess I consider "cybernetic" to be machines implanted in the body directly under the user's control, like a cyber arm, controlled by the concious. The Bio Comp (and the insulin pump) just reacts to stimuli in the body (muscles experienceing exceisve use, increase steroid production). The harness is NOT directly controlled by the user (like Bane from Batman), it just reacts. But again, it seems to be a matter of opinion.

Captain Shiva wrote:I just wanted to hear some of your thoughts regarding Telemechanics. I often wonder why it is considered a super psionic power. You can't inflict any megadamage with it, or anything like that. What clever uses have you (or your players) dreamed up for this power?

Great for stealing money. If the card is encrypted ohh I know your password. Stealing from banks. Breaking into sec locations.

Also I believe some where it allows you to pilot power armor with out the skills. At ok bonuses. Belive it was source book one the old one? Think it was the mechnoids book because hanvoc what ever his name pilot with telemanchics.

Personlly it is a petty much use any elec related skills at 80% is petty good. Though you would have to have the tools still can't pick a lock with out lock pick.

asajosh wrote:

Borast wrote:

asajosh wrote:Well, ya technically it was Telemech Paralysis. And there was a saving throw, GM didn't anounce it just rolled and gave the description.
I never even considered the "bio-comp is a cybernetic device" angle. Honestly, I dont think it is. Recently I was in the hospital and had an IV drip. I sure didn't considder that a cyernetic implant.

The bio-comp is actually surgically implanted into the body...which is why it has to be removed in order for a juicer to successfully come off the drugs...it keeps the body pumping out endorphins and adrenal products at a drastically increased rate.

As for the IV drip...it wouldn't be considered a cybernetic implant...unless it was an implanted drug dispenser.

Difference of opinion I guess, my cousin has an insulin dispencer implanted in his body with an external hookup to attach his supply (closest real world analog I could think of on the fly, but its essentially the same as a Bio-Comp, just not as advanced). Good for 3-4 days under normal conditions. I don't think that qualifies him as a cyborg. But by your deffinition it would. Tomatoe/tomato.
I guess I consider "cybernetic" to be machines implanted in the body directly under the user's control, like a cyber arm, controlled by the concious. The Bio Comp (and the insulin pump) just reacts to stimuli in the body (muscles experienceing exceisve use, increase steroid production). The harness is NOT directly controlled by the user (like Bane from Batman), it just reacts. But again, it seems to be a matter of opinion.

I agree that the Bio-Comp would be considered a cybernetic device due to the fact that it is tied into the body's systems so that it can do it's job. It is controlled by the body but in an automated way. It responds to the signals it gets from the Juicer's body and responds accordingly with what is needed. At least that is how I see it working.

If I were to allow TM-powers to affect it, I would definately allow the Juicer a saving throw though.

Devjannz wrote:

asajosh wrote:

Borast wrote:

asajosh wrote:Well, ya technically it was Telemech Paralysis. And there was a saving throw, GM didn't anounce it just rolled and gave the description.
I never even considered the "bio-comp is a cybernetic device" angle. Honestly, I dont think it is. Recently I was in the hospital and had an IV drip. I sure didn't considder that a cyernetic implant.

The bio-comp is actually surgically implanted into the body...which is why it has to be removed in order for a juicer to successfully come off the drugs...it keeps the body pumping out endorphins and adrenal products at a drastically increased rate.

As for the IV drip...it wouldn't be considered a cybernetic implant...unless it was an implanted drug dispenser.

Difference of opinion I guess, my cousin has an insulin dispencer implanted in his body with an external hookup to attach his supply (closest real world analog I could think of on the fly, but its essentially the same as a Bio-Comp, just not as advanced). Good for 3-4 days under normal conditions. I don't think that qualifies him as a cyborg. But by your deffinition it would. Tomatoe/tomato.
I guess I consider "cybernetic" to be machines implanted in the body directly under the user's control, like a cyber arm, controlled by the concious. The Bio Comp (and the insulin pump) just reacts to stimuli in the body (muscles experienceing exceisve use, increase steroid production). The harness is NOT directly controlled by the user (like Bane from Batman), it just reacts. But again, it seems to be a matter of opinion.

I agree that the Bio-Comp would be considered a cybernetic device due to the fact that it is tied into the body's systems so that it can do it's job. It is controlled by the body but in an automated way. It responds to the signals it gets from the Juicer's body and responds accordingly with what is needed. At least that is how I see it working.

If I were to allow TM-powers to affect it, I would definately allow the Juicer a saving throw though.

Heh, he had a save, but failed.

asajosh wrote:Heh, he had a save, but failed.

DOH!!! Hate when that happens. LOL

toadmage wrote:I have not read all the pages of this subject . My character was blinded from a spell of some type . She used digital camera to look thought to aim and escape out the door .

that is a great idea.

Gravitus Everlast wrote:So if you can "Know" and "opperate" any mechanical or computerized item as such, does that mean if you carry a calculator on your person, you automaticly get a 98% in mathmatics? Or if I carry a pocket dictionary/thesaurus will my spelling and sometimes grammar always be at 98%?... so long as I have telemechanics active... Oh GEEZ... telemechanics and a simple PDA... Oh I can't wait to level!

You wouldn't have mathematics at 98%; you still wouldn't know how when to apply a given formula. Menial arithmetic, sure. Mathematics? Not necessarily. And a pocket dictionary won't help if you don't pick the right word... and quite a few people can screw up spelling, even if they have a dictionary.

I think they would need programming skills to do it; TM will let you communicate with autonomous machines, but not control them.

Gravitus Everlast wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Gravitus Everlast wrote:So if you can "Know" and "opperate" any mechanical or computerized item as such, does that mean if you carry a calculator on your person, you automaticly get a 98% in mathmatics? Or if I carry a pocket dictionary/thesaurus will my spelling and sometimes grammar always be at 98%?... so long as I have telemechanics active... Oh GEEZ... telemechanics and a simple PDA... Oh I can't wait to level!

You wouldn't have mathematics at 98%; you still wouldn't know how when to apply a given formula. Menial arithmetic, sure. Mathematics? Not necessarily. And a pocket dictionary won't help if you don't pick the right word... and quite a few people can screw up spelling, even if they have a dictionary.

Thanks mark, you're always helpful in understanding how stuff works.

*chuckle* The math thing is my own problem. Sit a problem in front of me and, provided it has symbols I know, I'll solve it pretty well.

I just have no clue as to what formulae to use in any given situation.