Need some input from some smart folk...

[Blight]

Hey i wanted to get some opinions on something. I'm writing something for mutants in orbit..The idea is 300 years ago at the height of the golden age the first interstellar ship was built. Sent on a 300 year mission (150 there and 150 back) and is now coming back..I know what Tec. i want to steal for the construction ideas Fullerines and nanotubes..I got some neat ideas for the crew. Borgs every last one, were are talking a compete conversion the only organics some brain tissue being maintained by nanites. with a self repair system that would give them an untold life expectancy with maintainance.. the ultimate space men... The problem I'm having is the drive I didn't want to use F.T.L... I wanted to use a diametric drive. It is theoretically it's the best bet. But it might be to advanced for rifts (isn't that funny to advanced for a sci-fi ) Then I thought a antimatter rocket i was going to make this a big ship with micro antimatter production facility. Not enough for weapons but for ships propulsion, power and recharge of the crew..But again i don't know if this work for rifts...So i thought I might ask suggestions..Any ideas..

[Blight]

My idea for control and maneuvering thrust was going to be Magnetoplasmadynamic (MPD) thruster or Field Emission Electric Propulsion I'm still weighting the options.

[Toc Rat]

If I understand correctly, you are asking about power and propulsion for a instellar ship that isnt FTL? And that works with what is known about Pre-Rifts Golden age tech?

If that is the case then the ship would be powered almost certainly by Fission. Pre-Rifts nations had simply fantastic micro-fission plants, as evidenced by the USA-G10 (Glitterboy) and the SAMAS. Their large scale applications for that same technology was/is equally as impressive, as evidenced by the USS Tico. It is possible that in an instellar prototype they might have perfected and used a micro-fusion plant but that would be straying from known capabilities.

As for the STL (Slower The Light) drive, I suggest an Ion system. NASA currently uses those drives on it's newest satelites. Since they only use electrictiy, a fission plant could power them for a long time. An alternative would be a plasma drive system. The "fuel" storage of any such vessel would have to be enormous though for any kind of constant drive system.

If I may ask though, why the need for a indepth explanation of how sucha ship would get to wherever it was going? If you need for such a ship to have been built as part of your plot then simply have it done. Palladium is no stranger to that, why should you be?

[rat_bastard]

officially using goldn age tech you would use a traction drive with a fusion/solar power source. Probably solar sails too... The ship would be huge, maybe two miles long so it can grow the minimal food the borgs would need, and there is a chance that their biologial bodies would be kept on ic e in the ship for when their mission was done.

[RainOfSteel]

Then I thought a antimatter rocket i was going to make this a big ship with micro antimatter production facility. Not enough for weapons but for ships propulsion, power and recharge of the crew..But again i don't know if this work for rifts...So i thought I might ask suggestions..Any ideas..

You'll need more anti-matter for fuel (reaction mass).

And anti-matter, not being capable of microsecond to nanosecond chain-reaction explosions like chemicals or fissionable materials, isn't an ideal weapon (at least not an explosive weapon, radiation, now, that's something else).

[Aramanthus]

No: On the power plant I disagree. We are almost at the fusion power plant stage. We will have those by that time the Golden age will end.

Blight! You could always use you proposed method powering the ship (MPD). Just use a RAM scoop to keep the power plant refueled. It would probably work in with the storyline you're thinking of.

[Nightmaster]

Just a question: Why not FTL propulsion? If slow enough the FTL drive could be perfect for that idea.

After all who said that the target of the exploration would need to be Alpha Centauri or nearby star systems?

If I remember well, the orbital telescope have detected a planet some,more or less, 230 light years away that could have a capacity to held life in ways that we humans know. Maybe that was the target of the starship.

At a 2 times the speed of light, that starship would need more or less 115 years to arrive there. Put in some more years to explore the star system and the planets there. Now the travel back and another 115 years would pass... voila... Rifts Earth.

To prevent the orbitals from get their hands at an FTL drive, you can make the ship have a critical FTL malfunction when entering the solar system and so the FTL drive is gone. The ship is still there and the plot (I believe) will be intact if the crew of the ship dont have the sufficent knowledge to construct a new drive from scratch.

Just my .2 cents

[Aramanthus]

I thinnk your reasoning is very good. Go with it!

[R Ditto]

Interesting stuff.

I would go with a self sustaining fusion power plant, hydrogen fuel kept topped off with ram scoops, a traction drive, ion drive for backup.
Toss in backup supplies in the way of standard fission based systems.
Some radioactive materials have half lives in millions of years when not being used in a fission reaction, perhaps a nuclear heat pile that has tons of small fuel pellets, each generating enough heat to boil water, but not having enough mass to cause them to have much of a fission reaction, so they last a long time, relaying on large amounts of nuclear material that will last a long time rather than smaller amounts of nuclear material that will not last so long.


Aliens Unlimited Galaxy Guide has some stuff to make designing a space ship easier. (and change their 'speed factors' from times the speed of like to kps.)
I got stuff for that kind of setup for installing stuff like hydroponics, agricultural bays, etc.

The use of hydroponics and botanical recycling systems means a lot of space saving and being able to recycle practically everything possible as far as human waste.
Any "backup supplies" would just have to be stuff like compressed blocks of protein, minerals/vitamins, plant food, etc, since over a few centuries, there might be an ever so small loss in stuff despite having near perfect organic based recycling capabilities.

Also toss in stasis systems of some sort, keep most people asleep, and keep lots of seeds in cold storage, since seeds can last for long periods of time when kept cold. Then even longer ranges could be achieved.
Have the crew operate in shifts of only a few people each...
although in such cases, might need to stock up on a few tons of contraceptives that have really long shelf lives... just to be on the safe side... or bring along stuff needed to make things on site, since it makes sense that they have the capability of making/recycling everything possible, because you can't call a delivery truck for something when you are lightyears from home....
That way, they don't need to rev up the majority of the hydroponics until they get where they are going.

[Blight]

Just a question: Why not FTL propulsion? If slow enough the FTL drive could be perfect for that idea....
Just my .2 cents

They are listed as not having FTL before the coming of rifts....

If I may ask though, why the need for a indepth explanation of how sucha ship would get to wherever it was going? If you need for such a ship to have been built as part of your plot then simply have it done. Palladium is no stranger to that, why should you be?

When i write up these thing they become supplement books for our games and are used by the other GMs in our group. Thats also why i go into such detail..

He might have a nit picker in his group who delights in telling everyone why something can't work like that....

Sadly that would be me I like things to sound plausible when i write them..Plus i get a kick from the research..

officially using goldn age tech you would use a traction drive with a fusion/solar power source. Probably solar sails too... The ship would be huge, maybe two miles long so it can grow the minimal food the borgs would need, and there is a chance that their biologial bodies would be kept on ice in the ship for when their mission was done.

I thought a traction drive was for a ground vehicle? Like what they were designing for the Mars Rover Exploration project? Oh and it is huge..When I'm done i may post it..

in the Phase World skills under Spacecraft: Small
"Some have interstellar capabilities, but most are comparatively slow transports intended for relatively short-range travel; typical speed is about half the speed of light."

I am going to look through phase world I got to keep the tec. at lest 30 to 40 years behind according to cannon.. That is proving hard..Don't get me wrong i love CJ's work but save for the use of quantum/spacial warping technologies he used in phase tec, (that how i explain how they work) nothing really streched my imagination.. But thats a whole other subject

No: On the power plant I disagree. We are almost at the fusion power plant stage. We will have those by that time the Golden age will end.
Blight! You could always use you proposed method powering the ship (MPD). Just use a RAM scoop to keep the power plant refueled. It would probably work in with the storyline you're thinking of.

Man, i didn't think of a ram scoop.. Thanks And i'm liking fusion more and more..The logistics behind it are a lot easier than antimatter.

This is science fiction, don't let science get in the way of a good story. We're talking borgs and mages in the same game. Reality is Out to Lunch.

Yes, but isn't the sci-fi better when you have to stop and go "hey this would work!" when your reading it

I would go with a self sustaining fusion power plant, hydrogen fuel kept topped off with ram scoops, a traction drive, ion drive for backup..

I'm still confused about that traction drive..I'll do some research..

Aliens Unlimited Galaxy Guide has some stuff to make designing a space ship easier. (and change their 'speed factors' from times the speed of like to kps.)

Thanks I'm definitely look that up

The use of hydroponics and botanical recycling systems means a lot of space saving and being able to recycle practically everything possible as far as human waste.
Any "backup supplies" would just have to be stuff like compressed blocks of protein, minerals/vitamins, plant food, etc, since over a few centuries, there might be an ever so small loss in stuff despite having near perfect organic based recycling capabilities.

I was thinking of taking the crew to the level of almost robot no organic organs and the brain artificially maintained with synthesized proteins and minimal Air requirements. I was thinking alga beds for the hydroponics..

Also toss in stasis systems of some sort, keep most people asleep, and keep lots of seeds in cold storage, since seeds can last for long periods of time when kept cold. Then even longer ranges could be achieved.
Have the crew operate in shifts of only a few people each...

Thats the beauty of the crew they could have timed shut down or mabe an elaborate VR system for down time..
Thanks for the ideas folks I'm much obliged.

[rat_bastard]

the traction dirve in muties in orbit! I know its a pretty sucky book but it had an electrical only form of propulstion called a traction drive.

[Toc Rat]

If I may ask though, why the need for a indepth explanation of how sucha ship would get to wherever it was going? If you need for such a ship to have been built as part of your plot then simply have it done. Palladium is no stranger to that, why should you be?

When i write up these thing they become supplement books for our games and are used by the other GMs in our group. Thats also why i go into such detail..

Plausible is good but I was suggesting he not give himself a migrain in the process.

[Blight]

thanks sounds like an ion drive. I'll check it out

[Nightmaster]

Just a question: Why not FTL propulsion? If slow enough the FTL drive could be perfect for that idea....
Just my .2 cents

They are listed as not having FTL before the coming of rifts....

Actualy in Rifts Phase World, KS say that pre-rifts Earth was on the "verge" of discolvering FTL when the Rifts occured.

That means to me that in an overal no one had FTL technology but that dont mean that another country besides the most importants (USA, Russia, Japan and etc) could not have discolvered it, hidden the knowledge from the others, made a starship to explore a star system far away and weeks after the launch of the ship the Cataclysm happen and the knowledge is lost forever with the space station that were not among the ones that would survive the Rifts.

Remember that at the time of the Coming of the Rifts the entire planet was again in a Cold War era. Cooperation between nations was almost inexistent.

Your idea of the crew of the ship being Full Conversions makes me imagine the constructors of the starship as not having the proper knowledge to build a life suport system with capacity for normal crews to operate for so long. The idea of making the crew FC would help then overcome that problem. That is why I see then as not being part of any alliance with the other major powers of the planet at the time.

By the way, your idea of Full Conversion borgs as the crew of that ship remindes me of the Mechanoids.

[R Ditto]

Just a question: Why not FTL propulsion? If slow enough the FTL drive could be perfect for that idea....
Just my .2 cents

They are listed as not having FTL before the coming of rifts....

Actualy in Rifts Phase World, KS say that pre-rifts Earth was on the "verge" of discolvering FTL when the Rifts occured.

That means to me that in an overal no one had FTL technology but that dont mean that another country besides the most importants (USA, Russia, Japan and etc) could not have discolvered it, hidden the knowledge from the others, made a starship to explore a star system far away and weeks after the launch of the ship the Cataclysm happen and the knowledge is lost forever with the space station that were not among the ones that would survive the Rifts.

Remember that at the time of the Coming of the Rifts the entire planet was again in a Cold War era. Cooperation between nations was almost inexistent.

Slight problem, is that Rifts Earth was on the "verge" of discovering FTL... which means for the planet to have it, someone will need it in the first place. Since they are on the border, the fine line between FTL not being possible and finding out FTL is possible, some stuff will have to happen to have an FTL ship ready for a long range manned mission...
1: Sometime happens and they find out how FTL is even possible. (present knowledge of physics say it isn't)
2: They do research into it
3: They work on a prototype system, toss it on an unmanned craft for tests.
4: They do tests with the prototype system to prove it works.
5: They do more tests, involving living things to make sure there isn't some "undetectable" thing that will kill off living mater.
6: They make a prototype starship with a larger scale for manned test flights, to make sure it works on a large enough scale to be practical
7: They do more tests, see what all the ship can do, they use duplicates of the small FTL prototype craft to 'wait' at the target zone, to make sure the much larger ship arrives.
8: After much testing of the FTL drive, the finalize plans for the first manned FTL mission into deep space.
9: They build a full blown long range ship with FTL drive, they do a few test runs (with the ship loaded with dead weight to mimic the mass of full cargo holds) just to be on the safe side.
10: They properly equip the ship with all the sensors, equipment and supplies it will need and finally send it on its way after smaller FTL drones confirm the destination area is safe.

So, according to the PW book, Rifts Earth was more or less close to achieving step 1.
Another problem, IIRC, there is no FTL in MiO... if there was any FTL tech, it would be in space, because you don't go testing if something can go faster than 186,000 miles per second (well over 900,000 times the speed of sound) within the atmosphere and within the gravity well of a planet.
So, if FTL tech existed, it would be in space, and at least one of the orbitals would have it.

Your idea of the crew of the ship being Full Conversions makes me imagine the constructors of the starship as not having the proper knowledge to build a life suport system with capacity for normal crews to operate for so long. The idea of making the crew FC would help then overcome that problem. That is why I see then as not being part of any alliance with the other major powers of the planet at the time.

The basic tech for self sustaining craft exists today. Look at the orbitals, they already got that tech practically perfected and in wide scale use, it's the reason they survived in the first place. There is also the "self sustaining" ships in MiO.

The main thing that is a problem is with such a setup, especially to sustain a lot of people over a long period of time, is the weight and space needed to make a ship self sufficient, having hydroponics, waste recycling systems, etc. Then you need extra powered output needed to keep all those plants alive and growing, not to mention plenty of extra water for hydroponics and people, which means a lot more weight and needing extra systems to help to keep all that water usable (likely also using botanical measures to clean water while also producing fresh air and small amounts of food). That means a big ship that is going to need big engines.

By going with FCBs, you have basicaslly knocked out 90% of the oxygen use, and perhaps 95% of the needed nutrition, you also wipe out most of the needs for water (no loosing any moisture through sweating or the act of breating). By cutting out a good 90% of the overall stuff needed, a lot less weight is going to be added, which means a smaller ship that weighs less, which means the faster and farther the engines can propell it.

By the way, your idea of Full Conversion borgs as the crew of that ship remindes me of the Mechanoids.

You got a point with that point.
Luckily, there is some already funky stuff going around, and borg tech being common, so there hopefully won't be a repeat of the Mechanoid scenerio. One thing on a similar note is of how Japan has cloning tech.
That tech likely existed at pre-rifts time, which would be an added bonus for anyone who signed up to become a FCB for the mission, because they knew that when they got back, they could get a good biosystem based body or even a cloned body, so a little bit of hope would help them psychologically, knowing that they aren't condemed to be borgs for the rest of their existence.

[Nightmaster]

Just a question: Why not FTL propulsion? If slow enough the FTL drive could be perfect for that idea....
Just my .2 cents

They are listed as not having FTL before the coming of rifts....

Actualy in Rifts Phase World, KS say that pre-rifts Earth was on the "verge" of discolvering FTL when the Rifts occured.

That means to me that in an overal no one had FTL technology but that dont mean that another country besides the most importants (USA, Russia, Japan and etc) could not have discolvered it, hidden the knowledge from the others, made a starship to explore a star system far away and weeks after the launch of the ship the Cataclysm happen and the knowledge is lost forever with the space station that were not among the ones that would survive the Rifts.

Remember that at the time of the Coming of the Rifts the entire planet was again in a Cold War era. Cooperation between nations was almost inexistent.

Slight problem, is that Rifts Earth was on the "verge" of discovering FTL... which means for the planet to have it, someone will need it in the first place. Since they are on the border, the fine line between FTL not being possible and finding out FTL is possible, some stuff will have to happen to have an FTL ship ready for a long range manned mission...
1: Sometime happens and they find out how FTL is even possible. (present knowledge of physics say it isn't)
2: They do research into it
3: They work on a prototype system, toss it on an unmanned craft for tests.
4: They do tests with the prototype system to prove it works.
5: They do more tests, involving living things to make sure there isn't some "undetectable" thing that will kill off living mater.
6: They make a prototype starship with a larger scale for manned test flights, to make sure it works on a large enough scale to be practical
7: They do more tests, see what all the ship can do, they use duplicates of the small FTL prototype craft to 'wait' at the target zone, to make sure the much larger ship arrives.
8: After much testing of the FTL drive, the finalize plans for the first manned FTL mission into deep space.
9: They build a full blown long range ship with FTL drive, they do a few test runs (with the ship loaded with dead weight to mimic the mass of full cargo holds) just to be on the safe side.
10: They properly equip the ship with all the sensors, equipment and supplies it will need and finally send it on its way after smaller FTL drones confirm the destination area is safe.

So, according to the PW book, Rifts Earth was more or less close to achieving step 1.
Another problem, IIRC, there is no FTL in MiO... if there was any FTL tech, it would be in space, because you don't go testing if something can go faster than 186,000 miles per second (well over 900,000 times the speed of sound) within the atmosphere and within the gravity well of a planet.
So, if FTL tech existed, it would be in space, and at least one of the orbitals would have it.

Read again my post.

I said that a possibility is for some space station related to some country not allied with the majors powers on Earth at the time discolver FTL, test it, DIDNT tell anyone and eventually build the ship. Weeks after the launch of the ship the Rifts happen and the station is one of those poor unluck stations that were destroyed during the cataclysm, so the knowledge of FTL was lost with it.

Your idea of the crew of the ship being Full Conversions makes me imagine the constructors of the starship as not having the proper knowledge to build a life suport system with capacity for normal crews to operate for so long. The idea of making the crew FC would help then overcome that problem. That is why I see then as not being part of any alliance with the other major powers of the planet at the time.

The basic tech for self sustaining craft exists today. Look at the orbitals, they already got that tech practically perfected and in wide scale use, it's the reason they survived in the first place. There is also the "self sustaining" ships in MiO.

The main thing that is a problem is with such a setup, especially to sustain a lot of people over a long period of time, is the weight and space needed to make a ship self sufficient, having hydroponics, waste recycling systems, etc. Then you need extra powered output needed to keep all those plants alive and growing, not to mention plenty of extra water for hydroponics and people, which means a lot more weight and needing extra systems to help to keep all that water usable (likely also using botanical measures to clean water while also producing fresh air and small amounts of food). That means a big ship that is going to need big engines.

By going with FCBs, you have basicaslly knocked out 90% of the oxygen use, and perhaps 95% of the needed nutrition, you also wipe out most of the needs for water (no loosing any moisture through sweating or the act of breating). By cutting out a good 90% of the overall stuff needed, a lot less weight is going to be added, which means a smaller ship that weighs less, which means the faster and farther the engines can propell it.

A space station really dont need to have all that to exist. Just take a look at the actual UN space station today. They receive all their necessary supplies from time to time. The same could be the case with some space stations during pre-rifts times.

Only the most large of those space stations could have that long term life suport system. Most of then would be in the hands of the major powers of pre-rifts Earth and his direct allies by the way.

Minor factions or lone nations would have a hard time having such large space stations. Also the flow of technology have stoped during those times. The Golden Age was already over and most nations were no more sharing their secrets and knowledge with the others.

In such a scenario I dont find difficult to see a nation discolvering FTL and not telling anyone while not having all the tech necessary for long term life suport systems and so using FCBs for the task.

[R Ditto]

Rifts Earth didn't have FTL.
If canon says Rifts Earth was "on the verge of" discovering FTL, that means there is none, almost there, but not been discovered/acquired yet, period.
If some little third world country with a population of a small town and a space station the size of a school bus discovers FTL, and suddenly, Rifts Earth is classified as having FTL capability. Even some lone scientist in some backwater lab makes a homemade FTL capable space probe, then Rifts Earth is classified as having FTL capability.

The very tensions and paranoia from just before the Cataclysm would have also made it effectively impossible for any power (small or large) to have gotten anywhere with anysort of FTL testing or of building and launching an FTL capable ship without ever being detected. Just building a ship to test out the FTL system would draw a lot of attention of "what are they doing over there?"

As for life support.
The ISS doesn't have many people, they can get away with not having long term life support because they have to ship stuff up there on a regular basis in the first place.

The Rifts Orbital Stations will have had the tech for long term life support, and many likely had the systems installed. Even smaller stations would have access to the tech. Hydroponics tech is around today.
Heck, just watch TV, they got a freaking countertop hydroponics type system on the market now (called Aero-Garden, or something like that, for herbs, small vegetable plants, etc)

There is also the factor of logistics and operating costs.
Having hydroponics installed is a lot cheaper in the long run than having to send up ships ever month or so to resupply the station with food/air/water.

[Nightmaster]

Rifts Earth didn't have FTL.
If canon says Rifts Earth was "on the verge of" discovering FTL, that means there is none, almost there, but not been discovered/acquired yet, period.
If some little third world country with a population of a small town and a space station the size of a school bus discovers FTL, and suddenly, Rifts Earth is classified as having FTL capability. Even some lone scientist in some backwater lab makes a homemade FTL capable space probe, then Rifts Earth is classified as having FTL capability.

The very tensions and paranoia from just before the Cataclysm would have also made it effectively impossible for any power (small or large) to have gotten anywhere with anysort of FTL testing or of building and launching an FTL capable ship without ever being detected. Just building a ship to test out the FTL system would draw a lot of attention of "what are they doing over there?"

Man I am talking of possibilities. Dont come to me stating canon becuase I have the book.

Blight himself is making something not stated in canon, not even remoted sugested so I dont see how a space station long destroyed that belong to a nation that too was long destroyed having developed FTL and not tell anyone is so disruptive.

[R Ditto]

Canon effectively says no one got FTL before the Rifts hit.
That puts a bit of a damper on things for that angle, as there is an effective 'no' involved.

I did find a possible 'close enough'
The Traction Drive has a top speed of close to the speed of light, but it takes a year to fully accelerate, and on a similar note, the traction drive in Manhunter only takes a month to accelerate to near light speed.

Canon doesn't say much on what missions may or may not have been done before the Cataclysm, and I don't remember anything saying they didn't/couldn't do deep space missions. There is a mars colong, and that alone means they would have had the capability to make deep space capable ships.

[Nightmaster]

Canon effectively says no one got FTL before the Rifts hit.
That puts a bit of a damper on things for that angle, as there is an effective 'no' involved.

I did find a possible 'close enough'
The Traction Drive has a top speed of close to the speed of light, but it takes a year to fully accelerate, and on a similar note, the traction drive in Manhunter only takes a month to accelerate to near light speed.

Canon doesn't say much on what missions may or may not have been done before the Cataclysm, and I don't remember anything saying they didn't/couldn't do deep space missions. There is a mars colony, and that alone means they would have had the capability to make deep space capable ships.

It didnt say that "no one" have achieved that, it implies that. But that is not the matter.

My sugestion was simple a twist of the concept of a world "on the verge of" discolvering FTL. A possibility that Blight could use to better work the background for his campaign.

Some nation or corporation would be the first to discolver FTL but that dont mean that this group need to tell everyone that they did achieved it. In fact in the background of pre-rifts Earth, more probable the discolver of FTL technology would stay quiet about it. The possibility of being the first nation/corporation to settle a new Earth-like planet and so have rights of possession of this planet is too much to simple give up that advantage just for pride of saying "I am the first to discolver it".

Also hidding that knowledge and the construction of a ship is not that difficult. It will depend on the size of the ship and where is the space station constructing it. One can even camuflage the construction of the ship as a mission to exlpore and stablish a new colony in the solar system, like in the moons of Jupiter or beyond. The FTL engine could just be the last part to be installed in the ship before its launch.

The fact that a few weeks after the launch of the ship the Rifts happen and the station is destroyed along with the knowledge of FTL insure that no one on Earth or in the space colonies will have it so canon setting is still preserved in that way. No one knows that it existed at the time and no one knows now either.

Again that just an idea so its up to Blight use it or not. I dont see anything wrong with it. Its plausible and would work good for this type of campaign that Blight is cooking up.

[R Ditto]

Hmm...
no FTL Pre-Rifts, so how about 'after' the rifts started?
That is, the maiden flight happens in a total panic as the Cataclysm starts.

Scientist "We did it! This prototype should prove FTL is possible!"
Computer "Alert, Alert, Multiple Ballistic Missile Launches detected..."
Scientist "Oh crap..."
Computer "Alert, Alert, Multiple SDI Satellite Activations detected...."
Scientist "Uh oh..."
Computer "Alert, Alert, Ore Carrier piloted by panicked crew is out of control and on an intercept course with your work bench..."
Scient "Er... um... Test flight time! Everybody pack up, the moment I get this thing installed on a ship, I'm getting the freaking heck out of orbital Dodgeand anyone not on the ship is getting left behind!"

Er... back on track...

I say let the Japanese have made the invention (they are the most advanced) with scientists working on the Japanese space station (which got blown to bits during the Cataclysm IIRC, and has weird stuff going on in MiO), and have their land based labs be in an area that didn't get warped out, meaning that no data or materials survived.

As all heck started to break loose, in a bit of a panic, they toss a prototype onto the best ship they can on such short notice, cram as much stuff on the ship as they can, and make a test flight as all heck is breaking loose, they managed to get out of there in the nick of time...

some aliens "in the area" of their flight path pick up some basic FTL craft cruising by, they get curious and wander over towards Rits Earth after some time, and setup shop in the wreck of the Japanese station, resulting in the odd rumors of odd things going on at the wreck of the Japanese space station.

To blend it in with Blight's ideas...

A long time after the rifts hit, a ship full of FCBs on a deep space mission (launched maybe a year or two before the Rifts occured, using a traction drive to allow near light speed travel) reaches their destination, and to their suprise, find the remains of ship of familiar design and with familiar markings. The ship is intact, but everyone is dead, or else a few survivors eek out a living on what few hydroponics they brought along, or a few survivors in still working cryogenic... or maybe some sort of small colony is setup on the planet's surface, built into caves or something where remains of a shuttle were used to make a "doorway" and little being needed to maintain a breathable environment in the caverns they moved to...

The survivors (or their last logs) inform the FCB expidition of what had happend after the mission had reached deep space, and they finally scavenge the ship for all its worth and the FTL drive, which still works (the original ships power plant wasn't hooked up to the drive correctly and so burned out, stranding them where they ended up at, but the big ship had bigger/more powerful power sources that could easily handle the output needed for the FTL drive)

What they do from there is anyones guess. Maybe it's only a few decades after the Rifts occured, and they setup a space colony of sorts, not wanting to risk using the FTL drive on the only good ship they got left. the FCBs help with things, aid with mining, etc, and after that, with the colony self sufficient enough to survive, the FCB ship (a handful of crew staying behind at the colony) heads off to begin exploring star systems in search of rare minerals they need to allow them to build a new FTL ship, one possibly armed to the teeth, to send back to Earth to investigate what had happened, and if "the bad guys" had one the war, to engage only as a last resort and to bug out, and if a war was still going on, to assist "the good guys"...

Could cause some interesting things with the Orbitals...
Someone on Freedom Station sits at their console, and a small flashing message in red letters appears on screen, and the computer confirms it as the IFF code of a Pre-Rifts Deep Space mission... Person spews their drink all over the console when they realize something BIG is inbound, with a design similar to Pre-Rifts "propossed space warship designs"...

A new faction enters the game... one that wants to get its butt down to the planet and start cleaning house, and with much of the crew being much of the original FCBs, many now refitted for all out war, they aren't going to be happy to be given "no" as an answer from the orbitals...

[Nightmaster]

Really nice idea

Works even better than mine. At least you understood what I have said.

[R Ditto]

Actually, I'm like Dr. Jekyll (sp?) and Mr. Hyde...
sometimes I'm a rules lawyer, other times... I go nuts... come up with stuff that makes Phase World low simple, and the Mechanoids look like the megaverses biggest mobile (and fleeing) target range.

One other thing is that it seems FTL could kind of tamper with the feel of MiO, cause who knows what to happen, which was part of the reason I was against the idea... then the "To heck with the rules, lets get creative!" part of me went bonkers...

Another idea relating to what you had Nightmaster... relating more to the 'small power doing stuff in secret' angle.

The group that develops FTL was operating under the guise of a mining operation in the Asteroid belt (figured with all the rocks, it would be a good place to hide stuff). They had a secret base near the mining operation, with a full blown FTL test ship awaiting a parts shipment, but before the transport gets to Earth to pick up the parts, the Cataclysm hits. Whatever happens to the people of the base, who knows, maybe they survived (being self sufficient as possible to minimize need for food supplies, occasional "prospecting drones" fly by the asteroid and unload packages of needed parts/materials)

Come PA103+, some independent miners come across what appears to be the remains of an old mining base in the asteroid belt. They go over stuff (and probably skeletal remains) and find out logs indicating one particular asteroid had quite a few prospecting drones dispatched to it, and indications the drones were actually deploying "something" to the asteroids surface, but no mention of what. Suspecting the drones may have been planting demolition charges to crack the asteroid to get at possible ore seams, they go check it out.

To their surprise, they accidentally find an odd section of rock that has a rough line to it, almost like a pair of vaguely rectangle shaped patterns. They find a smaller square shaped pattern, and find a concealed airlock. After getting inside, they find an unusual ship of sleek and stealthy design in a concealed shipyard.

The base has just about everything it needs to be independent and well hidden, it had hydroponics, recycling systems, a small fusion power plant, its own small mining facility, refinery and workshop that was actually producing much of the material used in the facility, and whatnot.

Logs indicate the first test flight went well until a power conduit blew out due to major power drain on the ship's power source, and that a more sturdy and power conduit was needed. There is also mention of "initial readings" having "positive results" despite the burnout that prevent the "test jump" from being fully initiated.
The people who find the place likely have spare parts that, while only 'average', happen to have a capacity well above the needed limits for parts the secret base had needed in the past.

As far as they can tell, it's just some "larger than usual' traction drive, until they come across notes of "near instant acceleration" and "traction drive field coil upgrades show promising side effect of accelerating energy beams without power up the system enough to move the ship." and of a test where "energy transmissions acceleration theory tested, resulted in test transmission funneled through the upgraded traction field coils resulting in messages arriving at observation drone 1.3 seconds ahead of standard radio transmissions going at the speed of light! This indicates the part of the transmission that passed through the coils breached the speed of light, and without resorting to impossible to control tachyon particles!"

If they replace the burnt out power transfer system, and take it for a test drive, they find out the craft has acceleration rated in hundreds of miles per second, per second, allowing it to accelerate to normal max speed in under 10 minutes. When the "upgraded coils" are engaged, something happens. The ship comes to a dead stop.

The ship deploys some sort of beacon, and then begins to accelerate on some apparently pre-planned course, the comm. system picks up "pings" of some sort, and the comm. system seems to start to send out "pings" itself as the ship accelerates faster and faster, and soon the "upgraded coils" seem to finally kick in, the field seems to turn inside out, it goes from pulling the ship along space to causing the ship to "slide" through space, speed gauges seem to go all crazy, the comm. system seems to make a quick "ping" noise as it does this, and the speed gauges all go dead, while one previously unlit display lights up with the glowing words "Luminal Threshold Limits Breached: Extrapolated Speed: 1.0000001c And Accelerating." For several minutes, the comm. system lets out more distorted "ping" sounds, each sounding different from the one before.
After a while, the ship suddenly decelerates on its own, following some ages old "test flight" program, the ship comes to a complete stop, it sends out one final, long "ping" that seems like a burst transmission of sorts.

The ship's computer, and the ship, refuses to respond to any command input, the comm. system seems to scanning for some sort of transmission. It starts to pick up "pings" like the one it had sent out starting at near light speed. It still does nothing, as more pings are heard, originally sent out from the hidden base.

Then, a burst transmission arrives from the computers at the hidden base.
Soon, displays come to life as each ping is heard, the system begins calculating numbers and time delays, and the system then displays a chart charting power output, field strength, and effective speeds achieved at the times the pings were sent out, and calculating them with the delay between the pings from the hidden base, it calculates factors such as effective speeds, time dilation, etc...

The main screen displays a chart of assorted info.
The ship deems to deploy a beacon of some sort as it turns around to head back towards the hidden base, it sends out a burst transmission. After a while, the response is heard and the ship accelerates on its own back towards the hidden base... everything happens again, the ship finally comes to a stop meters away from the first beacon it had deployed, near the hidden base. After a second round of listening for pings and burst transmissions, the ship seems to go to autopilot, heading back to the hidden base, where it docks by itself, having completed an age old task it had been awaiting centuries to fulfill..."


Okay, I'm done typing story/plot idea stuff now... I need to get a fire extinguisher because my keyboard is starting to smoke on me... (actually, it just might be my fingers that are starting to smolder...)

[Nikoli]

IIRC the traction drive is the fastest sub-luminal drive available, being able to reach .9C
The Solar Sail is possibly a close second however when you get a certain distance, stars from other systems begin to interfere and the radiation from Sol (our star) becomes just barely more than useless. Solar sails are an efficient in system method of transport that requires little to no fuel, but is highly susceptable to damage from meteorites, etc. that you'd find in fields past Pluto.
The Ion Drive is a personal fav for travel, has a faster build up time than the traction drive which can take something like 2 years IIRC to reach full speed, but it is slower. It's a good secondary choice for when you need to make course corrections and detours for refueling.

For refueling, Ram scoops for raw hydrogen, plus you can always hitch along with a comet, mine it for ice and use that for water and potentially deuterium (heavy Hydrogen, excellent for Fusion), which would allow you to get by with carrying less water.
Also, new research today suggests that a human can be placed in complete suspended animation by substituting all the blood for a saline solution and removing all oxygen from the body, this induces a form of torpor that would render the body immune to the ravages of time and makes them remarkably easy to repair. This also works for seeds and livestock. Reduced oxygen causes damage, total lack of it induces suspended animation. Better than freezing which would more likely cause cellular damage, giving folks the option to keep their bodies rather than all of them go FC and return to Rifts Earth with potentially inferior equipment.
Manhunter if you can get your hands on it is another good source for low-tech ship creation.

[Nightmaster]

R Ditto

I LOVED the description. really workable.