Space Suits

GreenGhost · Unread post by **GreenGhost** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:03 pm

I don't remember which book it's in, but I thought I saw stats for MDC Space Suits for EVA activity.

Can anyone help me with this one? 8-)

GreenGhost · Unread post by **GreenGhost** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:53 pm

Cool! Thanks guys! I've got a game this Saturday and couldn't remember what book of mine they were in.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:38 pm

Actually, kinda weak designs...I want(ed) to see more civilian options like those in Mutants in Orbit...extra radiation/heat shielding, exoskeletons, modular tool arms, extended life support, the like...

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:17 pm

Yeah, those are some great suits!

Braden Campbell · Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:13 pm

taalismn wrote:Actually, kinda weak designs...I want(ed) to see more civilian options like those in Mutants in Orbit...extra radiation/heat shielding, exoskeletons, modular tool arms, extended life support, the like...

Civilians don't go into space in the Phase World setting, and of those that do, a very small percentage would ever even think about climbing around on the outside of the spacecraft!

Remember that in the CCW, 80% of all civilians never leave the ground. It's wierd, but its a Space Opera setting where most people are either afraid to, or can't be bothered to, go into space.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:25 pm

That may the case. But I always make sure my characters have one when they in the Phase World Setting.

MADMANMIKE · Unread post by **MADMANMIKE** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:27 pm

..Civilians aren't player characters either. There would be multiple scales of suits on the market regardless.

-Mike >8]

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:51 pm

I know what you are talking about. From economy to ultra sheek decked out with everything under the stars in options.

Braden Campbell · Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:05 am

No, I wasn't joking. I meant civilian as in as the trillions of people who work in factories and dead-end retail jobs.. the great masses of the 3 G's.

Obviously, if you go into space, you are going to get a space suit... but don't expect to find one hanging in the closet of every household.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:00 pm

Braden, GMPhD wrote:
taalismn wrote:Actually, kinda weak designs...I want(ed) to see more civilian options like those in Mutants in Orbit...extra radiation/heat shielding, exoskeletons, modular tool arms, extended life support, the like...

Civilians don't go into space in the Phase World setting, and of those that do, a very small percentage would ever even think about climbing around on the outside of the spacecraft!

Remember that in the CCW, 80% of all civilians never leave the ground. It's wierd, but its a Space Opera setting where most people are either afraid to, or can't be bothered to, go into space.

But skilled professionals should have equipment appropriate to the task, even if they aren't going to be fighting Kreeghor barehanded...
Since they list the basic hardsuit for EVA, I'd also like to see stuff like heavy industrial suits, or expanded utilities like the cousins of the Multi-Tool...

THink of the fact that for every military man in service, there will be at least ten support staff(including civilian contractors) backing 'em up...

And think of the adventure possibilities for the civies who find themselves caught up in events, and have to use gear that in some cases might actually be MORE appropriate for a task than what the military's been issued....

For instance...a group of CCW citizens get caught on a space platform when the TGE atatcks the planet..they hide in a part of an orbital drydock and watch as a Kreeghor cruiser glides by, intent on savaging the planet below now that the orbital defenses have been dealt with...the survivors figure out they've been overlooked, but they decide to do something(a few military overseers with them are obliged to mount a resistance)...ONe of the zero-gee shipjacks figures (using his knowledge of ship construction) that the Wulfen=designed TGE ship beside their refuge can be at least damaged if they take out its engines...a feat they can accomplish because the spacejacks' exoarmored worksuits are rad-proved for manhandling damaged reactors and 'hot' ships...so slipping in among the engine venturis and tackling their workings with plasma-slicers is going to a cakewalk for them....but the soldiers are going to have to give them a distraction by attacking the sensors and airlocks farther forward....
Sure it's suicide, and the space workers don't get paid for this, but they're professionals, and this is THEIR spacedock the TGE just ruined...

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:58 pm

I can see that happening in a game. As a matter of facat I'm planning on running Rifts/ Phase World this weekend for my group.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:05 pm

I've been trying to work on a design for a magadamage EBA that could be quickly carried by rescue workers into bad situations and quickly donned by disaster survivors for assisted self-rescue...a more articulated version of the 'space balls' NASA has developed for space rescues.
Some of the design parameters I've drawn up...
*EBA w/ life support extension(airlines, booster-packs)
*LOw MDC, but radiation/NBC shielding
*Easily Donned(1-2 piece construction) for people without any experience in EVA/EBA operation
*Easily folded/compact storage(likely fabric arms/legs, rigid torso and helmet directly atatched to torso unit)
*Enviro-sealed porting for attachment/insertion of medical sensors, catheters, IV/injection/sampling )
*Handholds/attachments on waist, shoulders, and back, for safety lines and for rescue workers to more easily carry incapacitated wearers...the attachment points also provide restraint points if it becomes necessary to tie down a hysterical/out of control rescuee

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:44 pm

darkmax wrote:That would be good suit.

Blame the inspiration on the portable 'idiot-proof' cardiac defibrilatosr they now have on airplanes and in med kits....

There are some genuises in adaptive technology design....

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:14 pm

But I could see ships even small ones carrying those sort of emergency suits which are easy to use.

Nikoli · Unread post by **Nikoli** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:24 pm

The basic jumpsuit is good in a pinch, should protect you against 90% of the crud whizzing through the cosmos if you find yourself outside.
The Multi-tool doesn't need much in the way of upgrades, it is a nano-controlled tool. If it can't do it already, a short programming check later and it can now.
The only thing really missing from the jumpsuit is an emergency maneuvering system.
I could see putting together an NG-S2 type survival kit for Phase world. Have a jumpsuit, helmet and 5 minutes of compressed gas for thrusting to safety along with some other handy gadgets.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:35 pm

darkmax wrote:WEll... there are always those who care not to look..... but why would one place a non-shielded EBA suit in a space ship or a space station anyway?!

Economy(they either anticipate that the wearer will NOT be venturing in a high-rad environ, or else they're chiseling on procurement...especially in big orders and government contracts) or stupidity....a biohazmat suit would pop like a balloon if taken into a zero-pressure environment...

Which leads into what separates EBA from a spacesuit?

Spacesuits have to have some sort of mechanism for retaining pressure without ballooning out into Michellin-man immobility...Conformal skinsuits rated for space thus have some of the most powerful elastic properties I've ever seen(especially if the internal pressure they're designed to contain is sea-level normal)...But the 'bodyglove' worn under the ceramic/composite plates of say, an unmodified suit of Bushman EBA, would swell up until the wearer couldn't move or a seal burst.

Life support is also of necessity longer...you can't just pull in and filter air or vent waste gases...the system has to be self-contained...

And temperature and insulation has to be better....with one side of your body in direct sunight and the other in shadow, the temp differential can become murder on sealant materials...as well as the dangers of outgasing of the construction materials

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:22 pm

darkmax wrote:well... one never really knows what the consumers do with their product.....

So it's good to overengineer....
And have a test department full of dispoable idiots under constant observation to record what they'll do with the product...

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:13 pm

darkmax wrote:first the French made the crash dummies, today Taalismn make the disposable idiots....

Oh, I just go to the US Congress and buy myself a politician...the bait's cheap, and if I lose a few dozen in testing, nobody cares...

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:40 pm

darkmax wrote:And they won't be sorely missed, right?! Make sure you get the corrupted ones, like Rumsfeld.

Just joking. I don't really know whether he is a good one or bad one. From the recent reports about his resignation due to the Iraqi Incursion, I deduced he must be the bad guy, the fall guy.

I tend to flip them over and check the expiration date...then vote the bum out!

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:21 pm

Getting back on topic...I've been looking at some of the old proposed lunar excusion suits....with barrel-shaped bodies and wrap-around windows rather than helmets...plus enough room for the wearer to pull his arms in and eat or perform tasks inside the hardtorso 'bubble'.....you couldn't get the suit through a regular doorway, but add a light exoskeleton, thruster system, and other 3G wonders, and it would make a great basis for a heavy-duty worksuit or exploration suit, especially in low-grav environs(unless you have enough power armor elements so the wearer could bear the heavy weight more effectively).

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:37 pm

darkmax wrote:those gloves are a killer. holding a spanner or fork will prove to be extremely difficult.

True, assuming the sea-level internal pressure inside the suit isn
''t compensated for by rotary joints or powered actuators in the gloves....

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:39 pm

Of course, the other extreme end of suit design would be the 'nude suit'----skintight nanoskin or the ultimate evolution being a body-conformal forcefield created by a fanny-pack or subcutaneous implants....

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:35 pm

THis is why serious accidents happen around skintight-tech....

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:13 am

Very nice!

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:36 pm

Yeah..I remember seeing that....it reminded me more of the camouflage outfits from Ghost in the Shell..

In Varley's novel "The Opiuchi Hotline' they had lung replacements that generated a skin conformal silver forcefield that would also stop projectiles, radiation, and energy attacks(up to a limit), and kept the person alive by superoxygenating their blood..

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:03 pm

I thought SAC 1 & 2 took place after the movie. At least that is my understanding.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:31 pm

In the case of Ghost in the Shell, it;'s more a case of 'it won't look cool if everybody who goes into camou-mode is running around wearing what looks like skin-tight wetsuits....Well, it does when the Major does, but who wants to see Batou or Togusa(though I thought only heavily cybered individuals could effectively use the stuff) in a body stocking? Let alone the various chunky disposable goons Section 9 has to dispose of...It's less embarassing to have a full-on hack suite implanted in your head and simply hack anybody who has artificial optics or leads into their brains, like the Russian bodysnatchers and the Laughing Man does....

For Rifts or Phaseworld, however, you'd have to have a combination of technological, magical, and psionic masking to effectively get by a smart security contingent...or else teleport directly into your target...but that's hardly sexy...

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:42 am

It would also set off anyone with Zanshin! They would be aware of their presence.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:44 pm

It's 'how to design the perfect camouflage....

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:59 pm

Actually it does. Because it'll identify any thearts to the person with it. So if the invisible entity was a theart the person with Zaneshin would know there was someone who was considered opposition around in the radius of his Zaneshin.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:40 pm

My characters who have it love it! It's a life saver!

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:25 pm

Yes, they should, but you'd have to be trained in sensing changes in the chi surrounding you.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:19 am

Yes, but of course!

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:42 am

Yes, I did!

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:40 pm

darkmax wrote:It is a strange combination of several languages....and often broken English....

In other words you're not going to pull a French Academy of Culture and try to 'purify' the language to exclude words like 'underwear' and 'la cheeseburger'.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:56 pm

I hope we get to keep the word "Cheeseburger"!!! :shock:

JK It is a fascinating area of the world. It's another true melting pot of cultures. (At least from my prescpective.)

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:34 pm

gadrin wrote:Darkmax, I took the time to view your gallery, that's pretty nice ! Nice writeups too.

I really liked the Wraith, Solace, Mecha-Ray and Baskin.

What's the "ball" on the wraith ?

think you could render a Solace for me, with the top gun barrels real short ?

I have a home-grown shipyard: Red Giant Shipyards and the Anvil Dynamics team which licenses other people's plans and builds to specs. I'd like to produce my own variants if that's okay with you.

No hurry.

Yep...Darkmax does very nice work...keeping the rest of us who are trying to interpret his works busy....I almost actually LIKE his apparent discrepencies from Phaseworld standards because it can be used in the fluff text to represent the different societies, technologies, and standards that are jostling for marketshare in the Three Galaxies...

The Mecha-Ray's going to be a fun one to stat out...each ship has a history, and in the Mecha-Ray you've got a society that apparently believes in big(BIG) robots...and it's two pieces of hardware for the price of one....A Battleram's only 80 ft tall, and a non-Palladium Evagleion unit is about 100 ft tall...the Mecha-Ray's carried 'bot obviously can't fly on its own, so that mass is available for armor, armament, and other systems...and it's still small enough to be carried by a 'heavy fighter'(could you imagine what would require a modified Warshield or other heavy craft as a dedicated transport?!)...so it's mounting at the very least medium-grade capital ship weapons mas small arms....

My first thought on the ball of the Wraith is that it's too small for a cockpit pod...so it would be idea for a sensor with a large arc of sensing...Thre transparent hull suggests some serious Phasetech.

I'm almost done stating out the Solace...I'm debating whether or not to add a forcefield as standard equipment.

I had something similar to Anvil Dynamics' 'give us the plans, and we'll build it' in Paladin Steel's Custom Center..."Give us the design, mix and match the off-the-shelf systems, or give us any new tech you want installed, and if we take a shine to the thing we just built for you, we'll offer you royalties for the license to massproduce the thing..."

But Darkmax's idea of a Shipbuilders' Guild also has merit...a way of helping struggling aerospace firms compete against big boys like Naruni and Galactic Armory who probably don't play nice in the big contract contests..

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:07 pm

I would expect there to be various guild within the 3Gs to allow the smaller companies to compete with the monsters.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:29 pm

"We may be little, but get enough us together, and we can bring you to your knees..."

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:13 pm

I can really see that! You don't cross the guilds.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:51 am

That is a sharp vehicle Gadrin!

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:13 am

The one which Gadrin had a link for.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:28 pm

Like computers...I love to surf'em...just don't ask me to fix'em...

Though, as an infonaut, I should have the same skills as an astronaut with regard to taking care of his most valuable piece of gear...his travelling suit....

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:47 pm

darkmax wrote:well, they all do have IQ well above the average person, and photographic memories....

...and the ability to eat sticky candy bars while standing upside down on a merry-go-round...

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:06 pm

darkmax wrote:or read a newspaper while the shuttle blasts off......

That's why they call it 'The Right Stuff'...the rest of us would just quail at the mechanics of a zero gravity toilet...

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:57 pm

It requires lots of rope, some chains and handcuffs!

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:48 pm

Entirely different mechanics, plus you could easily dislocate something in the process....
I believe that it will a while before anyone in the space program dares to experiment on that one....We'll have to wait for the first hotels in space, because no government-sponsored space agency(well, the French might) is going to spend taxpayer money on something like that for fear of same taxpayers howling....

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:23 pm

darkmax wrote:apparently blood flow to the required area is necessary with gravity.....

Don't know enough about that; people tend to do just fine in just about any position....but gravity might be a requisite for best chances of conception...I'd have to dig up research on mammal breeding experiments in zero-gee(though I imagine mice and rats really aren't inclined to do 'Nature's Mombo' when they're bouncing around a cage with a human looming over them watching....).

Of course, if zero-gee 'recreation' is what you're after, rather than a spacesuit, a space-rescue ball with room for two might be what you're really looking for...

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:28 pm

sorry about that...Palladium Boards went wormy on me for a sec...

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:30 pm

That'll be something they'll have to teach their mixed sex teams for long term missions. They could use a different version of the vomit comet to train their astronauts those particular maneuvers!