Would this work?

[Spark]

I'm looking to make a GM character, one for a possible Mechinoid campaign, more so to see if it's possible.

I'm wondering if it would be possible for an AbM Runner to hybrid the Cyberai cyborg technology and the TW abilities of the Warlock Combat Armor (W-1). Both are from the Phase World source book. And really the magic abilities of the W-1 armor doesn't mention of anything like the pilot needs to know magic (see Warlock Marine, same book).

So what I'm wondering is if an AbM Runner could use both to make a new cybernetic/bionic body armor. One that would have abilities like nano-machine katana (likely a different sword or knife), nano-machine regeneration, P.S. equal to 50, high prowl, agility, and use spells like armor of Ithan.

I know that's taking a Mechanoid and making an already powerful Pychic class creature and giving it the physical and some magic abilities to run and crush whatever. I just think this would be logical to an AbM. He's really kind of laging behind the Evil Mechs in technology and he's open to the idea of things like magic and newer different technologies. So why would he pass that up if it meant a possible way to help stop his insane brethren?

Thanks for any response.

[R Ditto]

The Mechanoids are fairly good with stuff like cybernetics, so I don't see why an open minded AbM would want to stick to default AbM stuff if something else gave an advantage.
The main problem I see is using Cyberai stuff with the W-1 armor, since the armor has to be magically linked to its owner, and that may or may not be tricky or impossible when it comes to a cyborg.
Since the W-1 Has a supernatural PS of 45, I think (might be mistaken) that would be 'stronger' than a robotic PS of 50.

The AbM might be able to do one heck of a lot more with the Cyberai nanotech, including the application of nanotech to other things, such as construction, recycling, etc... perhaps going so far as being able to build complex items using nothing more than dirt, stone, or whatever solid (or liquid) matter is available.

Here are some problems with the idea, mainly possible results.

With the mention of logic, it would also dictate that the AbM should not use such tech as the Cyberai nanotech against or even in the presence of the regular mechanoids, because if it was captured or even destroyed, or even just a piece of nanotech katana were to be recovered by them, the regular Mechanoids would have gotten access to working nanotech (unless the AbM was totally vaporized), which would not be a good thing at all.

As I mentioned, the W-1 does need to be "linked" to its owner, which is described as a complex and expensive matter. Since the link itself is magical, it means that magic will likely be needed to link it to the AbM, so it is going to need the assistance of someone who has any clue of how to do it.
It also happens to have anti-matter as part of its power source. I'd hate to think what the Mechanoids would do if they figured out someone knew how to effectively make anti-matter.
Just a milligram of anti-matter can pack the destructive force of 40 tons of TNT.
On the flip side, if it rigged up a self destruct system, it would be certain that it would totally vaporize itself and anything nearby with a massive explosion should it need to trigger the self destruct.

Overall, while an interesting idea, the AbM's main priority should be to never confront regular Mechanoids, because of the insane boost they would get from such tech if they were to get their hands on it, or even realize such tech exists. More for the Cyberai tech than the W-1, since the W-1 is a mix of tech and magic.

[Spark]

Well I have the old version of the core book. According to it Super-Natural strength is 18+. I know it's not correct as both my characters (borg and Atlantean) have P.S. of 36 and 30. But running with that wouldn't the Cyberai have more strength then the W-I power armor.

Also so to avoid the Evil Mechanoids from getting more advanced technology would it be better for the AbM Mechanoid to us the TW power armor technology? It doesn't have to learn magic to use it. Also with the ability to pass magic through the armor leavess the opening for the AbM Mechanoids to learn some form of magic.

[R Ditto]

Actually, I think supernatural PS is stronger.
Just check Rifts Conversion Book 1 (I have the old one), or even just look at the melee attacks for the Cyberai and W-1.
The W-1 does a deal more damage from a punch alone.

IIRC, Supernatural PS gets PSx50 for weight capacity, while Robotic is just PSx20.

On a side note, in Heroes Unlimited 2, Supernatural PS is also stronger than Robotic (Superhuman) PS.

Supernatural PS gives one other advantage. It can damage things that might otherwise by unaffected by regular attacks. For example, someone with the Invulnerability power from Heroes Unlimited 2.

While the AbM may not need magic to use the W-1, it is still going to need someone who can link the AbM to the armor so it will even work right.

Even the W-1 could have tech a bit beyond what the Mechanoids have (such as the armor's material and the tech elements of the power source).
It might also give the Mechanoids an idea about TW stuff.

One thing I have been thinking about...
Do the Mechanoids even have any real nanotech?
It seems as advanced as they are, that they would have at least some sort of nanotech, mainly due to their skill in genetics.

Who knows, would they even know nanotech if they got it?
What would Telemechanics do? How do you use it on something you can directly "touch" or "see"?

Either way you go, care will have to be taken to keep the evil Mechanoids from getting access to any sort of new tech.

One alternative, get such tech as the Cyberai (and maybe other PW tech) to the biggest AbM force possible that is willing to stay out of sight or is otherwise in a good defensive position.
A little time with the Cyberai/PW scale of nanotech should allow them to rapidly develop new ways of doing things, and give them the ability to do the impossible... massively overwhelm the evil mechanoids with superior numbers and tech, while also being able to massively outproduce the evil Mechanoids.

Maybe call them something like Neo-Mechanoids. They don't replace the losses and let themselves become a whole new race, free of the evil mechanoids, but perhaps ready and willing to seek out and destroy Mechanoids in other galaxies/dimensions, with those who stay behind creating a new civilization of sorts... who knows, maybe even give them a chance to "rediscover" their "humanity", as it were...

[Spark]

To be fair I was planning to have this technology combine into a custom/new body. And well I'm sure many other Mechanoid fans would argue, I was planning to have it more humanoid. Mostly because bodies like the Runner and Wasp are kind of limited, mostly in versatility.

As for the W-1, I'd love to write the character up as he got a new body as part of a 10+ year tour with the UWW Marines. I just don't think that would work as the body he has would like like the standard W-1 and so either he'd have to stick with that or under go massive change in it's look and function. Something I'm willing to do, just not that motivated towards.

One last thing about the W-1, it's armor well it is MDC and likely advanced beyond the Mechanoids, do you think the Evil Mechanoids would even look at it considering it's Techno-Wizardry and so uses magic. Other thing is the power supply is anti-matter, but only lasts 50 years, that's half the time a single power crystal lasts.

[R Ditto]

THis is going to be another long post...

I think the Mechanoids would examine materials also, even if an item was TW. If they could make materials that were stronger, they could make things using less materials, and therefore be able to make more. Either that, or they could make what they got a bit tougher.



Anti-Matter has some advantages over power crystals.
Fun thing about anti-mater is you can "refill the tank" or "top it off", as it were, when you have to. It probably wouldn't be to hard to do some maintainance and have the system ready to go again in just an hour or two, especially if you can just remove the power and put a fresh one in it, so the used one can be fixed up properly and the unit is already to be put back into active service.
For power output, a gram of anti-matter reacting with a gram of anti-matter has a theoretical energy release of 50 million kilowatt hours of energy.



Just a single gram of anti-matter/matter for fuel, it could either pack the potential of a 42 kiloton explosion, or put out close to 115 kilowatts of energy for that 50 year strait. That would be enough to power a 150 hp motor for 50 years strait, without stopping...



As for power crystals being better.
Don't the Mechanoids have to go carving up planets or stars to make them?
For anti-matter, all you need is a ton of energy, some matter to convert, and a bunch of large solar arrays close to a star would produce the energy needed to power the systems that generate anti-matter.
Anti-matter can also be used for weapons, and when it comes to self destruct systems, there isn't much left if an anti-matter system goes "boom".
It may be a bit volatile, but it is like storing a lot of potential energy in a very small area.


Doing a little random math...
If solar arrays were set up just about 1/4 of an AU from a sun, with a 100km square worth of solar arrays, they could generate 20,000,000,000,000 watts of energy (rough estimate) That's one or two hundred thousand times more energy than a modern day nuclear reactor can put out.

Just another rough estimate, that might be enough to generate a few hundred grams of anti-matter.
A star will be putting out energy for millions or billions of years, so using solar power to generate anti-matter will probably be a lot more effective in the long run that simply carving up stars or planets everything you need to resupply a Mechanoid Mothership and its mechanoids with power crystals.



If nanotech is used, they could use it to convert matter of all sorts to a specific type of matter, such as Deuterium. Half for fuel, the other half to be converted into anti-matter, since something like deuterium will have the optimal release of energy if it reacts with anti-deuterium. Deuterium also is useable for fusion reactions, so it can double as fuel for fusion reactors and reaction mass for anti-deuterium.



Since the AbMs likely have much fewer numbers, I think some of this stuff would be handy for them, or even just a small group of AbMs that are against the evil Mechanoids.
I got to thinking... since the AbMs are basically Mechanoids themselves, it should be quite easy for them to develop or modify tech to be "impervious" to telemechanics, or even tech that "self destructs" if "unauthorized" telemechanics is used when a proper AbM is not present.
That is, it could be "keyed" to the AbMs, so only they can safely use assorted telemechanics on the tech.

[Spark]

Impressive figures. That puts into perspective the power the W-1 uses in the 50 years it can operate on one charge. As for the Mechanoids' crystals, they're make through a process from a star. Too bad only the Overlords know how to create the crystals.

As for technology that is resistance or impervious telemechanics the W-1 is just that. The suit for the most part has an intelligence, and can't be pilot/possessed by anyone other then the person bonded to it. So even if an AbM Mechanoid were to be killed and the armor recovered by the Evil Mechanoids they wouldn't be able to do much, save for the power source.

But there's a simple solution to that, the UWW can make a magic guard that keeps the armor from attacking it's cities and people otherwise it self detonates. An AbM Mechanoid could simply have a spell put on that if they're killed then the suit goes with him to the grave.

P.S. Sorry for making you type out long posts.

[R Ditto]

I don't mind typing long posts.
I like plenty of details, myself.
Even if I do end up typing and typing and typing and typing and typing...

The estimates I gave were just a random guess. With anti-matter, the power flow could be controlled, so it could put out a great deal of power or a little power, or even "pulse" itself, ony generating power on occasion, relying on power storage the rest of the time it doesn't actually use anti-matter. Sort of like cruise control for a power system.

Overall, the W-1 might have more or less than the estimate. Since it has "effectively unlimited" payload for any of the optional energy weapons (including the HI Laser), it may be more.
Assorted estimates from the past show a standard e-clip in Rifts holds roughly 28 kilowatt hours of energy, or about 100 megawatts of energy for a single second. Chance are, the W-1 will need an output rated in megawatt hours to sustain prolonged weapons fire.

I wonder if the 50 year life of the W-1 is due to the TW part, not the anti-matter part.

A dead man's switch would be handy, if the AbM dies or is otherwise ripped out of it, the thing self destructs the moment it no longer detects the AbM's life signs.

It seems like it might be possible to come up with some other magic means of "jamming" telemechanics, because just the suit being intelligent won't prevent it from revealing everything about the technological aspects of the W-1. (if I read the Telemechanics entry in my RMB correctly)

Idea for nanotech other than self repair.
Carrying blocks of "solid" (and perhaps compressed) material, for use in not just repair, but for also manufacturing ammunition for stuff like rail guns or missile launchers.
Heck, even dirt or water would be usable. So would air, but the low density of air means it might take awhile to get enough mass enough there was a vacuum pump of some sort involved. Even the ground it stands on could possible be used using nanotech "harvesting" systems deploying out of the feet.

I can't help but wonder what might happen if some of the AbM designs got a TW makeover, supernatural PS, and nanotech systems... or even such stuff applied for AbM robots.

Since they are good at genetics, I can see a few AbMs being "modified" into a humanoid form that can survive on its own, so they can learn magic and have a few become TWs.

I am seeing potential for an AbM TW modified "Super Brute", with several times more MDC, supernatural PS of 50-60 (much bigger than the W-1), high powered Armor of Ithan, double to triple the usual running speed, and some extra weapons, both hand held and mounted. Toss in a few other TW things, like Impervious to Energy, Invisibility Superior, and perhaps Fly as Eagle (unless it will also have a contra-gravity system for flight).

[Spark]

As far as telemechanics are conserned, I don't know of any artifical way to block something like that, which is psionics. I have read that there is a TW hemet that uses quartz and it blocks psionic attacks on the wearer. I don't know if you could implement something like that on a enviormental suit/power armor/robot. The only other way to block psions is through the Psiborg, which involves M.O.M. Again both I don't think would help.

Edit- I was reading through Bionics Sourcebook and found this:

Note: Bionics and cybernetics bioware is impervious to all forms of Telemechanics to begin with.

This in at the end of page 88, at the end of the list of Psionic filters. I'm not 100% if this is just for those bionic items or if this is for all bionics in general.

[R Ditto]

I don't have the Bionics Sourcebook myself.
I'm surprised they actually made something impervious to telemechanics (big word, now using TM).
Bioware I can understand, since it uses stuff along the lines of biotech.

I feel sorry for full conversion borgs. I guess that renders a psychic operator or psi-tech totally incapable of doing anything to/with bionics with TM, meaning they can't do anything unless they actually have the specs on hand.

I bet that will make a lot of full conversion borg unhappy. No more having a psychic operator figure out what's wrong with some system or bionic weapon simply with a glance at it via TM, now they have to actually track down a cyber-doc, which might pose a problem is an operator or psi-tech is the closest thing to a repair person for who knows how many miles.
Another factor are the other TM powers, so now I guess a psi-tech is in deep trouble if they run into a ticked off borg in a dark alley.

Although, I am thinking that TM might work on a Mechanoid body if the Mechanoid isn't present in the body at the time.
Although, a bond like with the W-1 might make it immune to TM even if the AbM isn't in it at the time.

That being said, the only way evil Mechanoids could use TM to get new tech would be to kill the AbM, but that would be a bad thing if a kill switch gives the evil Mechanoids a first row seat at what it might be like to be inside of an exploding star...

Hmm... if the AbM will be fighting the evil Mechanoids a lot...
Make sure the AbM's body is as humanoid as possible, that should really tick the Mechanoids off.
It is far superior, uses stuff that can't really understand (TW), use unknown tech (TM not working), and is overall humanoid and kicking their butts with ease... and a kill switch/self destruct that ensures there is nothing left except a big smoldering hole in the ground.

[Spark]

So you think that so long as the cyborg is alive in the mechanical body it's can't be understood through TM? If that's what you're saying, then I think I can start rolling up this Mechanoid. Thanks for the help.

One last thing, I know it sounds like I want an Über Mechanoid character, but what would be a good choice or option for magic? I like the idea of an AbM Mechanoid learning magic. I'd like to throw in some spells, but I'm not sure if a whole O.C.C. would be required for the Mechanoid to understand how magic works. Oh and would a Mechanoid be able to replenish it's P.P.E. even though it's in a cybernetic body.

Again thanks for the help.

[R Ditto]

You're welcome.

I'm a little bit of a power gamer at times... I have come up with stuff myself in the past that would make the Mechanoids turn tail and run like mad...

Back to the subject at hand.
I guess I am looking at things in two ways due to the Mechanoids being psychics.

1: Since they can apparently use psionics through their mechanical bodies, it seems they should be able to extend psychic defenses to their cyborg bodies also. Something like Mind Block might act to jam something like TM in some way.
2: Since they do have TM, it seems that it should be easy for them to develop anti-TM capabilities, even if it is just something that "scrambled" any info someone might get from TM. Although, I don't remember them having actually having such things, but it should be very possible for them to make such stuff.

For magic, there is a possible problem with a Mechanoid even using it, but not impossible, just a little tricky.

Since they can actually slip in and out of their mechanical bodies (like if they need to interface with one of those brain pool things), I view their bodies as being more like robot vehicles than cyborg bodies. (they do have listings for how long they can survive outside of their "bodies" without proper life support/environment)
As such, PPE shouldn't be to much of a problem in some ways. If they were "true", it wouldn't be easy for them to slip in and out of their mechanical bodies.

Another factor, IIRC, is that many Mechanoids aren't much more than a blob of flesh with under developed limbs, since they rely on so called cyborg bodies. Although, a little genetics and bioengineering should fix that easily, going with a form that can survive on its own and have the limbs/vocal capabilities to use traditional magic.

If it goes with a large mechanical body that is more like a robot vehicle in size, it will probably need space to move around and cast, but the body could get in the way, and some TW type means (perhaps similar to the W-1) would be needed to "channel" the magic somehow, except maybe if the spell is to affect the cyborg body itself.
If it goes with a smaller cyborg body (or a humanoid form for the AbM itself), then perhaps a PA type style like the W-1 might be better.
Perhaps even a very large humanoid form with a large scale PA type body that has the capabilities of the Cyberai and the W-1, but the size of a small robot vehicle.

After that, all that would be needed is someone (or something) to teach it magic.

One scary factor is the Mechanoids genetic memory.
If an AbM learned magic, and they cloned that AbM, the clones would "know" magic also (the knowledge part at least), and would at least be quick to learn to use magic.

[Spark]

Well if someone were to change a Mechanoid, would it best to have them just roll them up as a Mechanoid experiment or operation done by a Body Fixer? Having that could help it survive longer then 1D4 minutes in Earth's atmosphere. Would having something like that have any negitives to their Psionic abilities? I'd like to keep the Mechanoid's strongest point from fading by changing them up so they could walk around outside their cybernetic armor, not that they'd be dumb enough to do that often.

Also I don't know do you actually have to verbaly say the incantation? I would have say if you speak them in your mind you can get the spell to caste. So I'll possibly leave that out of the change for the body.

As for the body I'd love to keep it something like the W-1 or like the Cyberai. If the Mechanoid were to go to the the U.W.W. he could get the TW power armor. So I guess it could go that the Mechanoid was modified already, had a W-1 modified for it's use as a Marine (or Marine Magic Specialist), and well it's there it could pick up some Warlock spells and the nano-technology from the Oni Cyberai. This would have to take place over 10 years (Warlock Marine tour of service is 10 years min.). Then just say that he was telepathicly told that the Mechanoids were on Earth and so he could head there, via Alexandria Atlantean planet in the Three Galaies).

Also are there any better pictures of the Thinman robot then those in the Mechanoids Sourcebook 2? I'd like to illistrate the power armor as having a Mechanoid's skull.

[R Ditto]

About magic.
I think most magic has both verbal and/or gesturing components. I know one book mentioned spells usually involving "chants or mantras", which means a verbal component.
It is "magic" afterall, just thinking the words might not work unless the AbM has enough force of will to shape the magic with willpower alone (which would probably be quite a feat in its own right, and not exactly canon as far as I know, except maybe for creatures of magic.)

Surviving without life support.
For surviving out of their mechanical bodies. It is just when they are out of their mechanical bodies and not on a ship or some other place with a controlled environment, as it appears they can exist outside of their mechanical bodies with no problem when in the controlled environment of something like a ship or spider fortress.
The Mechanoids should have no problem doing the changes themselves, but they have come to rely on their tech so much that such things probably never cross their minds anymore, but an AbM might actually think of it, but who knows. Also have to remember they used to be humanoid in the past, before they were totally altered by genetics and cybernetics.

Mechanoid Skull (???)
I have no idea what a Mechanoid skull might look like, but I only have SB2 as far as Mechanoid info, so I don't know if there are any other pics of the Thinmen robot. I do know the pic on page 89 is the closest thing I know of as far as what a Mechanoid looks like when not in a mechanical body.
But that did get me tho thinking.

The Splugorth and Kitanni (sp?) do know of the Mechanoids, so the AbM might not want to choose anything that will betray what it is or otherwise make it resemble the evil Mechanoids, as some might shoot first and ask questions later.

IMO, being undetected and not being shot at in the first place is a whole lot better defense than any armor of defense measure can achieve.

[taalismn]

I'm not sure the mechanoids have actual bony skull tissues...more like soft cartiligenous internal webbing, similar to an octopus....Their organic portions tend to be jelly-like in terms of tissue density, with the bionics/exoskeleton taking the place of any skeleton as such.

[Spark]

I'm asking about the skull as the Thinman's head/face is discribed as like a Mechanoid's skull with a (creepy) grin. Sourcebook 2 when you compare the Thinman's case to the look of the Mechanoid Digger (page 89) it does have some simalarities.

I also haven't said anything that said that Mechanoids don't have a skeleton. Really what's talked about is that they're just blobs of flesh that exsist most of thier lives in thier Cybernetic suits of armor. I would have to say for those that do get out to make contact with the Brain Pool, they'd need one. An octopus really can't support it's self if it's out of water.

[Spark]

One last question, honest.

How big are the Mechanoids? Are they a few feet or are they closer to the size of a full size human (6 feet)?

I also got the Mechanoid written up, he's perfect for an NPC, I have to say thanks again. This will help me take a Mechanoid campain further then I initally could.

[R Ditto]

I'm not sure about their size. I would assume they are at least a few feet in size, with the Seeker possibly being the smallest. I figure the small pic of a "mechanoid" on page 41 of SB2 is of the Seeker Mechanoid.

I would assume that since they use TK to interact with all sorts of things, and having been modified with genetics and relying on cybernetic/robotic bodies for such a long period of time, that they might have under-developed limbs (like the digger) or no apparent limbs at all (such as the AbM seeker, or the Octopus on pg71 of SB2).

That being said, I would guess the basic Mechanoid (no real limbs) will be at least 2 cubic feet in size and perhaps 30-50 pounds at least, while something like the Digger might be closer to the size of an average humanoid, maybe around 80-100 pounds. (all this being rough guesses)