ATB 1e vs. ATB 2e

[dataweaver]

I'm looking at picking up either ATB 2e or the ATB 1e worldbook bundle. I have TMNT, so I don't need to rule the latter out due to its lack of core rules. So how do these compare? In particular, does ATB 1e have the Backgrounds and Apprenticeships system that ATB 2e has? (To be honest, that's the main reason why I'm looking into the game.)

For that matter, what does either edition offer that TMNT does not, and do they differ from each other in that respect?

[Trooper Jim]

I would give serious consideration to getting the 1 ed. bundle. I have both versions of AtB, and aside from cool new animal types. i wasn't impressed at all. But if depending on what version of TMNT you have the AtB sourcebook will require some conversion (It was made for the original non revised version). I really like the old books better.

[maasenstodt]

The new edition has some interesting additions and changes. The best of these are a few rules tweaks, a generally improved skill system and the added vestigial disadvantages.

On the other hand, for its setting and mood, the first edition is much stronger. Particularly if you are getting all of the 1st Ed. books, you get a LOT more setting, many additional animals and a dramatically increased number of potential campaigns. What's more, while 2nd Ed. does make a number of nice changes to streamline the ruleset, like listed burst damage for firearms, it is working off of a system that has gained a lot of baggage over time. 1st Ed. is simplier in most regards.

So what's my recommendation? Given either the 1st Ed. bundle or the 2nd Ed. book, I'd take the bundle every time. I have all of the books, and in the games that I've run, I typically use the 1st Ed. rules and setting, though with a few rules tweaks, two of which (stated burst damage and enhanced mutations) are taken directly from 2nd Ed. Otherwise, the 2nd Ed. pretty much sits on the shelf, while books like Mutants Down Under and Mutants in Avalon are pulled out fairly often.

[maasenstodt]

What you're forgetting, perhaps, is that he said much of his interest is in the Backgrounds and Apprenticeships system. Which, of course, is almost 100% absent in After the Bomb 1st Ed.

Fair enough. I was trying to address the subject as a whole, which hopefully is helpful.

I should note that I have TMNT revised and it works perfectly well with the ATB sourcebooks, though as stated, using the ATB 2nd Ed. and trying to integrate the backgrounds from the sourcebooks can be a challenge.

To add my two cents to the skills issue, I don't find that apprenticeships add much to the game except to provide many characters with more skills. There is often more technical aptitude among such characters while character creation takes a bit longer. Neither of those things are very desirable to me in my ATB games, thus I stick with the 1st Ed. education & skill system, which I feel provides more flavor in any case.

[maasenstodt]

How do you work with the Old System New System issues? I've not found a proper way to adapt so far.

If you are refering to adapting the (1st Ed.) sourcebooks to 2nd Ed. rules, I don't. I stick to 1st Ed. in its entirety for skills. As I've said, I don't know of any clean ways to make that adaptation work.

If you are refering to using the sourcebooks with revised TMNT, there is no problem whatsoever. It works seamlessly, at least with the copies that I have. I don't have unrevised TMNT, so I can't speak authoritatively on that.

[dataweaver]

Thanks for the info! For the record, I plan on picking up both of the options eventually; it's just a matter of which one to get first. Since my main interest is in the Backgrounds and Apprenticeships system (which I'm planning to co-opt in conjunction with HU's power categories as the basis for a less restrictive version of Rifts), it looks like I'll be getting the second edition first, and the 1st Ed bundle later on.

[gordyzx9r]

I like first edition better as well, but AtBs apprenticeship programs mutation advantages/disadvantages are nice. Personnally I didn't think it was to hard to convert pre-existing AtB1 characters to AtB2 rules/backgrounds. Your the GM, you can do whatever the hell you want to do when it comes to letting your players generate their characters.

What I didn't like about AtB2

• No rules for characters to gain additional skills as they progress in levels and experience. But once again, your the GM and can do what you want.
• The EoH isn't nearly as impressive as the new powers that appear in AtB2 are.
• There should be a generic set of rules for mutating any known animal. We can all do research on our own for whatever animals it is we want. Using the size level tables and so forth we could work backwards to make templates for any animal (in theory anyways).