Can a level-up spell be new?

[Library Ogre]

All hypothetical; I don't have a group going on. Your opinions, and however much you want to support them.

Linda the Line Walker goes up a level, and gets a spell of his level or lower. Does that spell have to be from one of the books, or can Linda's player come up with a new spell to give her?

Is the story different for Marty the Mystic?
Perry the Priest-apus?
Wally the Warlock?

This assumes, of course, that the GM thinks the proposed spell is of an appropriate level... Linda can't show up with the Crimson Wall of Linda-lon and expect to have it at 2nd level.

As long as the spell is consistent with the magic discipline flavor and aligns with the mod/new spell rules in NB TtGD, I'd be cool with it. Like, no warlock getting a new spell that emulates an effect you'd expect from a necromancer. But if Wally the earth warlock wants to specialize in unique marble themed spells, yeah cool.

Assume also this quote from Grazzik is also true; I mean a spell appropriate to their class and level. The only new boundary I'm talking about it is "does the spell have to come from the book, or can it be something otherwise appropriate the player came up with?"

[Grazzik]

Simple answer in my games... yes.

As long as the spell is consistent with the magic discipline flavor and aligns with the mod/new spell rules in NB TtGD, I'd be cool with it. Like, no warlock getting a new spell that emulates an effect you'd expect from a necromancer. But if Wally the earth warlock wants to specialize in unique marble themed spells, yeah cool.

The rules in NB TtGD free us from the tyranny of spellcasting rules lawyers that quote the predefined spells in books from memory.

[ShadowLogan]

I don't have a problem with the idea per say, but the GM should still have veto authority on if the spell the PC comes up with is usable (or they can work with them to get it useable, much like NG TtGD or use of TW construction rules in RUE).

Some casters figure stuff out, so they are should be able to work out "custom" spells, and I would put Mystics here. Granted Spells like Priest/Warlock, its going to come down to if their patron know the custom spell in question (which is up to the GM).

[Marcethus]

In the case of Priest and Warlock I agree with ShadowLogan. In the case of Mystics; my view is that they are very much an intuitive caster and any newly created spells is usually based off of research and time spent figuring out the nuances of the proper casting of the spells. LLW and the similar ilk that can learn spells between levels; I would allow it if the player had their character spending their downtime spending the needed time and money doing the needed research.

[Curbludgeon]

There ain't huge potential for abuse in a spell pegged to a character's level per se. Strictly thematic casters like Warlocks should probably stay on brand, but examples like the Space Warlock suggest that too can be stretched. The hard part is in getting a table to agree at what level a given effect should be.

[Marcethus]

There ain't huge potential for abuse in a spell pegged to a character's level per se. Strictly thematic casters like Warlocks should probably stay on brand, but examples like the Space Warlock suggest that too can be stretched. The hard part is in getting a table to agree at what level a given effect should be.

It's not up to the table that's up to the GM. Using TTGD the player designs the spell then the GM makes adjustments and decides what level the spell will be. The player and GM can work together but the final decision is the GM's.

[Curbludgeon]

Yeah, it's a cooperative game where no one is forced to be there, and those sorts of defenses of referee authority always come across to me as someone trying to justify searching for general respect in a board game.

[ShadowLogan]

In the case of Priest and Warlock I agree with ShadowLogan. In the case of Mystics; my view is that they are very much an intuitive caster and any newly created spells is usually based off of research and time spent figuring out the nuances of the proper casting of the spells. LLW and the similar ilk that can learn spells between levels; I would allow it if the player had their character spending their downtime spending the needed time and money doing the needed research.

Originally I was thinking that Mystics would not belong on the list, but it's that intuitive nature I think that allows them to "work out" new spells that a "gifted" caster like a Priest or Warlock lack, but its just that they go about it an a different manner.

It's not exactly clear how a LLW vs Mystic work out the spells on their own. Yes Mystics go off an meditate to unlock their new spells, but what is actually involved in that meditation that allows them to work out the spells when they do? That is why I think a Mystic could "create" a "new" spell at level up like a LLW-type.

[Library Ogre]

Originally I was thinking that Mystics would not belong on the list, but it's that intuitive nature I think that allows them to "work out" new spells that a "gifted" caster like a Priest or Warlock lack, but its just that they go about it an a different manner.

It's not exactly clear how a LLW vs Mystic work out the spells on their own. Yes Mystics go off an meditate to unlock their new spells, but what is actually involved in that meditation that allows them to work out the spells when they do? That is why I think a Mystic could "create" a "new" spell at level up like a LLW-type.

Personally, I think a Mystic is MORE likely to have a unique spell at level up than a Line Walker/Wizard/Shifter type. Because a Mystic isn't finding their spells by studying other spells, but basically making up their magic as they go. A Mystic who wants a spell that makes him sprout claws and a natural AR meditates on it and the magic comes to them. A learned caster has to figure out how it works, then build it.

Sort of like the difference between a Conjurer and a Techno-Wizard. A Conjurer wants a sword? Poof, there's a sword. A Techno-Wizard wants to make a sword? Well, to build a sword from scratch, first you must create the universe.

[Plane]

Linda the Line Walker goes up a level, and gets a spell of his level or lower.
Does that spell have to be from one of the books, or can Linda's player come up with a new spell to give her?

Rules for Inventing Spells on TTGD 37 don't seem to be designed for use with the guaranteed spell you get per XP level, rather they seem designed for spending months of research and rolling a percentile. I'm a little unclear on how many hours per day in those months you're meant to spend on this though...

Of course if the spell has already been invented then I guess they could make it selectable.

Part of the new lore in RUE is that ley lines remember spells and meditating on a ley line can give you access to learning spells cast on that ley line - it's part of the fluff under the Walker+Shifter OCCs

Not sure if that would also apply to Shifters and Techno-Wizards though, they might have to do different networking to get unusual level-up spells.

Is the story different for Marty the Mystic?
Perry the Priest-apus?
Wally the Warlock?

TTGD pg 36:
Mystics need not worry about inventing new spells.
On reaching a new level of experience they automatically learn new spells, as explained on page 117 of the Nightbane RPG.
Likewise, Channellers also learn spells automatically.
Neither can create variants or brand new spells

I would lump priests and warlocks in with channlers+mystics.

This assumes, of course, that the GM thinks the proposed spell is of an appropriate level... Linda can't show up with the Crimson Wall of Linda-lon and expect to have it at 2nd level.

You could make a lower-level variant of the wall perhaps but that'd reduce its functionality.

[Marcethus]

In the case of Priest and Warlock I agree with ShadowLogan. In the case of Mystics; my view is that they are very much an intuitive caster and any newly created spells is usually based off of research and time spent figuring out the nuances of the proper casting of the spells. LLW and the similar ilk that can learn spells between levels; I would allow it if the player had their character spending their downtime spending the needed time and money doing the needed research.

Originally I was thinking that Mystics would not belong on the list, but it's that intuitive nature I think that allows them to "work out" new spells that a "gifted" caster like a Priest or Warlock lack, but its just that they go about it an a different manner.

It's not exactly clear how a LLW vs Mystic work out the spells on their own. Yes Mystics go off an meditate to unlock their new spells, but what is actually involved in that meditation that allows them to work out the spells when they do? That is why I think a Mystic could "create" a "new" spell at level up like a LLW-type.

I can see the point of that view. Just not sure that I agree with it. I haven't ran or played mystics in a long while I would have to refresh my memory on them.

Originally I was thinking that Mystics would not belong on the list, but it's that intuitive nature I think that allows them to "work out" new spells that a "gifted" caster like a Priest or Warlock lack, but its just that they go about it an a different manner.

It's not exactly clear how a LLW vs Mystic work out the spells on their own. Yes Mystics go off an meditate to unlock their new spells, but what is actually involved in that meditation that allows them to work out the spells when they do? That is why I think a Mystic could "create" a "new" spell at level up like a LLW-type.

Personally, I think a Mystic is MORE likely to have a unique spell at level up than a Line Walker/Wizard/Shifter type. Because a Mystic isn't finding their spells by studying other spells, but basically making up their magic as they go. A Mystic who wants a spell that makes him sprout claws and a natural AR meditates on it and the magic comes to them. A learned caster has to figure out how it works, then build it.

Sort of like the difference between a Conjurer and a Techno-Wizard. A Conjurer wants a sword? Poof, there's a sword. A Techno-Wizard wants to make a sword? Well, to build a sword from scratch, first you must create the universe.

I can kinda agree with the view that due to the intuitive nature of a Mystic and their 'lack' of education in regards to formal spellcasting I could see this as an avenue into a player actually talking me into allowing their mystic into taking a newly designed spell.

[Grazzik]

Again, just want to say that just because a spell isn't published in a book does not mean the spell is "new" and invented by the PC. I allow spells all the time that were developed by players for fun, but in-game they are considered spells that have been around forever and in wide use. As far as I'm concerned, my Create Gold spell has been around for eons and is widely available from Guilds looking to farm members as much as possible to generate reserves of gold and other precious metals. So player designed spells don't have to be limited to intuitive mages... they can be introduced through normal learning of spells.

[Marcethus]

Again, just want to say that just because a spell isn't published in a book does not mean the spell is "new" and invented by the PC. I allow spells all the time that were developed by players for fun, but in-game they are considered spells that have been around forever and in wide use. As far as I'm concerned, my Create Gold spell has been around for eons and is widely available from Guilds looking to farm members as much as possible to generate reserves of gold and other precious metals. So player designed spells don't have to be limited to intuitive mages... they can be introduced through normal learning of spells.

This is why the process to create the new spell involves both GM and player. It's a cooperative thing between player and GM to create and design the spell and to figure out if it's a newly designed spell or one that has always existed in the game world.