Updated Modern Firearm Stats?

[SadSquatch]

Hello, I'm new here so apologies if this is in the wrong sub-forum or if this has been answered somewhere else - though I did try looking.

Does anyone maintain an updated list of modern firearms for SDC worlds? Searching these forums I found a link to Kitsune's "Netbook of Modern Firearms" but that, much like all the books I own, are woefully out of date.

For example, the latest US assault rifle listed is the M-16 series, which was replaced by the M4 carbine in 1994 (according to Wikipedia), which was then later replaced in 2022 but the XM7. Stats for the M4 are easy enough since they still use 5.56mm, but the XM7 uses the new 6.8x51mm which is a heavier cartridge (and the XM7 having a higher PSI to up the kinetic energy). Based on the HU2 Rev (2021), 5.56mm does 5D6, so my thought is to house rule the new 6.8x51mm as doing 6D6 damage.

I can slowly go through and make my own firearms list, but I have found that generally every time I need a RPG resource, someone on the internet has already done it. A thank you in advance for anyone who takes the time to read/respond to this!

[taalismn]

This MIGHT be helpful, but it hasn't been updated in quite some time:
https://kitsunesden.xyz/Firearms/Firearms.htm

[ShadowLogan]

MercOps might have a more updated list (GAW section has a list of generic bullet damage based on various sizes), but not likely as new as you are looking for.

Keep in mind that damage stats (give/take) are actually pretty arbitrary. The AK-47 and M-16 have been listed as doing the same damage (at one time in some sources), even though they fire different size rounds for example. So the new US rifle you mention might not actually get a boost even with its larger round size compared to the M-16/4 as its still smaller than the AK-47.

[Jerell]

Just thought, I'd comment on the different rounds. Though the AK round has a larger diameter, and is a bit heavier, the muzzle velocity of the M16 usually more than makes up for that when it comes to destructive power. So having them do the same damage, eh, probably fine for game purposes, unless you really want to go deep in the weeds on it.

Going off my fairly limited experience as a medic treating some AK wounds in 2008 and 2012, dometimes a "clean" through and through on a leg doesn't even do what I might consider 5D6. Really all depends on where you get hit honestly. But an XM7 I would probably rate at least slightly better than the earlier assault rifles due to the round, so it's probably fair to do one more die of damage.

[Grazzik]

Keep in mind that damage stats (give/take) are actually pretty arbitrary.

You are not wrong!

a "clean" through and through on a leg doesn't even do what I might consider 5D6. Really all depends on where you get hit honestly

Good point. The optional location damage rules in CoCW (pg 16-18) can ramp up the damage of any peashooter into something deadlier than a honking hand cannon. Also, most people think of the maximum potential damage when they think caliber, but that clean shot through the leg could have come from a hand cannon with a low damage roll.

@SadSquatch

Between the GM Guide (pg 128), Merc Ops (pg 121), RMB (pg 243-245), the damage for .45 ACP is consistently 4d6, but the 9mm varies between 2d6 and 3d6. The CoCW keeps up this variability on the 9mm - while most 9mm pistols are 2d6, the Colt 2000 is 3d6 and there are several that take a 9mm short which is 1d8.

In rifles, the same thing happens with the 5.56 AR-type (M16 etc.). The same weapon waffles between 3d6 and 4d6 between books. Though Dead Reign (pg 110) does a funky 4d6+2. HU2 damage creeps up to 5d6. However, if you look to Chaos Earth (pg 53-54), the damage for both NEMA pistols (caliber unknown) and rifles (5.56mm) are 5d6... but note that the Dead Reign 5.56mm is deadlier than the NEMA 5.56mm, since the minimum potential damage is 20% greater. So, there is no hard and fast rule - the GM could downgrade or upgrade the damage for a number of reasons...

If you think 6d6 or even 7d6 is appropriate, go for it... but don't forget what Dead Reign did. If you think the weapon and/or ammo is of superior quality or the caliber is simply higher performance, adding that +2 or +3 guarantees a higher minimum damage without adding a full extra die roll.

[Jerell]

I've never looked at Dead Reign actually (like the only Palladium series I haven't touched), but I like the +2 idea for something like the 6.8mm. I think that'd be a decent alternative.

A low damage roll could account for location, type of injury, for sure. I've seen a guy survive 7 close in pistol shots with some sort of small caliber soviet/Russian make pistol. Hit no vital organs somehow. But also, crits happen too. I guess the dice can be a decent way to simulate it after all.

[Shorty Lickens]

So, I am ashamed to admit I am a gun nut. And the truth is most modern combat rifles really arent THAT different, at least in terms of performance. They are even more homogenized when you consider the stats in the books are incredibly basic. Damage. Range. Weight. And not much else. Its already been stated repeatedly in the books if you have a W.P. it also includes the ability to fix and maintain the weapons. Now as a gun nut I know there's loads of little differences across the thousands of rifles currently in use and NOBODY knows how to maintain or repair them all, and the average shooter really only knows one weapon well and maybe two others well enough to fix basic issues.

Dont sweat the gun stats too much. They dont matter. Just pick a weapon you wanna use in your campaign, find something similar in the book, and copy the stats. Thats all.

[Killer Cyborg]

So, I am ashamed to admit I am a gun nut. And the truth is most modern combat rifles really arent THAT different, at least in terms of performance. They are even more homogenized when you consider the stats in the books are incredibly basic. Damage. Range. Weight. And not much else. Its already been stated repeatedly in the books if you have a W.P. it also includes the ability to fix and maintain the weapons. Now as a gun nut I know there's loads of little differences across the thousands of rifles currently in use and NOBODY knows how to maintain or repair them all, and the average shooter really only knows one weapon well and maybe two others well enough to fix basic issues.

Dont sweat the gun stats too much. They dont matter. Just pick a weapon you wanna use in your campaign, find something similar in the book, and copy the stats. Thats all.

Agreed.
A 5.56mm semi-auto is very much like any other 5.56mm semi-auto when it comes to game stats, and a 9mm is very much like any other 9mm.
I like to look at real guns for weight, range, and ammo capacity, but that's about it.
A more realistic and crunchy system or sets of stats could be used, but it would interfere with playability, just as it'd bog things down to have stuff like WP M1911 instead of just a WP Automatic Pistol that covers everything.

[Warshield73]

So, I am ashamed to admit I am a gun nut. And the truth is most modern combat rifles really arent THAT different, at least in terms of performance. They are even more homogenized when you consider the stats in the books are incredibly basic. Damage. Range. Weight. And not much else. Its already been stated repeatedly in the books if you have a W.P. it also includes the ability to fix and maintain the weapons. Now as a gun nut I know there's loads of little differences across the thousands of rifles currently in use and NOBODY knows how to maintain or repair them all, and the average shooter really only knows one weapon well and maybe two others well enough to fix basic issues.

Dont sweat the gun stats too much. They dont matter. Just pick a weapon you wanna use in your campaign, find something similar in the book, and copy the stats. Thats all.

Agreed.
A 5.56mm semi-auto is very much like any other 5.56mm semi-auto when it comes to game stats, and a 9mm is very much like any other 9mm.
I like to look at real guns for weight, range, and ammo capacity, but that's about it.
A more realistic and crunchy system or sets of stats could be used, but it would interfere with playability, just as it'd bog things down to have stuff like WP M1911 instead of just a WP Automatic Pistol that covers everything.

It's like any other skill, if you really want to get granular everything from piloting skills to lore skills could all get a lot more specific but that would be just brutal for GMs and players alike. As a rule I just HR this by giving a temporary penalty for a truly unfamiliar weapon. Example: A player lost his weapon in a fight so he picked up an enemy rifle to use, he lost one attack just figuring out how to fire it. In other situations I've had players receive a minor penalty to strike until they got use to how it fires. Do the same thing for piloting or even operating unfamiliar computers in a crisis. I think that is a better idea for injecting realism into the game instead of having each weapon have its own WP.