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Currently the Cyber-Knight Zen Combat Initiative Bonus gives the Cyber-Knight a bonus to initiative vs. their target (or all tech using enemies at higher levels). My question is simply, "How does this work when facing more than one opponent?"

So, for example:
The PCs: John (Cyber-Knight), Megan (Ley Line Walker), and George (Juicer)
The Enemies: Evil Headhunter, Robot Wolf, Ley Line Walker

So, the CK is targeting the Robot Wolf and is supposed to gain a +6 initiative vs the Robot Wolf. How do you give him a +6 to initiative vs the Wolf without also giving him a +6 initiative against everyone else?

I know how I house rule it, but I am curious as to what the official instructions on this are.

HWalsh wrote:Currently the Cyber-Knight Zen Combat Initiative Bonus gives the Cyber-Knight a bonus to initiative vs. their target (or all tech using enemies at higher levels). My question is simply, "How does this work when facing more than one opponent?"

So, for example:
The PCs: John (Cyber-Knight), Megan (Ley Line Walker), and George (Juicer)
The Enemies: Evil Headhunter, Robot Wolf, Ley Line Walker

So, the CK is targeting the Robot Wolf and is supposed to gain a +6 initiative vs the Robot Wolf. How do you give him a +6 to initiative vs the Wolf without also giving him a +6 initiative against everyone else?

I know how I house rule it, but I am curious as to what the official instructions on this are.

The reason Zen Combat has been debated, hated, argued, house ruled, etc on this forum as many times as it has is because there is no official instruction! If you search "zen combat" or "cyber knight" on the forums you should find multiple threads discussing various aspects of the problem with the mechanics of the ability.

Father Goose wrote:

HWalsh wrote:Currently the Cyber-Knight Zen Combat Initiative Bonus gives the Cyber-Knight a bonus to initiative vs. their target (or all tech using enemies at higher levels). My question is simply, "How does this work when facing more than one opponent?"

So, for example:
The PCs: John (Cyber-Knight), Megan (Ley Line Walker), and George (Juicer)
The Enemies: Evil Headhunter, Robot Wolf, Ley Line Walker

So, the CK is targeting the Robot Wolf and is supposed to gain a +6 initiative vs the Robot Wolf. How do you give him a +6 to initiative vs the Wolf without also giving him a +6 initiative against everyone else?

I know how I house rule it, but I am curious as to what the official instructions on this are.

The reason Zen Combat has been debated, hated, argued, house ruled, etc on this forum as many times as it has is because there is no official instruction! If you search "zen combat" or "cyber knight" on the forums you should find multiple threads discussing various aspects of the problem with the mechanics of the ability.

I know. That is why I asked here. Maybe someone from Palladium can chime in.

HWalsh wrote:I know. That is why I asked here. Maybe someone from Palladium can chime in.

It would be wonderful if KS or other senior staff members would give official answers to our questions, but that doesn't happen. Ever.

The +6 only applies against the robot and the headhunter, tech using enemies. So the bonus may give him initiative over those two opponents but not over the LLW.

It is not that hard to understand.

CK rolls a 12
Hunter rolls a 14
Bot rolls a 15
LLW Rolls a 14

If he chooses to engage the tech opponents first then he acts ahead of them.
If he chooses to engage the LLW he does not get to act first.

The corrected way to do it would be to roll regular initiative and note the +6 as separate initiative for if/when the CK is interacting directly with tech opponents. Otherwise it's irrelevant.

jaymz wrote:The +6 only applies against the robot and the headhunter, tech using enemies. So the bonus may give him initiative over those two opponents but not over the LLW.

It is not that hard to understand.

CK rolls a 12
Hunter rolls a 14
Bot rolls a 15
LLW Rolls a 14

If he chooses to engage the tech opponents first then he acts ahead of them.
If he chooses to engage the LLW he does not get to act first.

When does he make this choice?

The corrected way to do it would be to roll regular initiative and note the +6 as separate initiative for if/when the CK is interacting directly with tech opponents. Otherwise it's irrelevant.

And what happens if the CK chooses to attack the LLW, but the Bot chooses to attack the CK?

then LLW can go before CK, like and interrupt, then the CK can react accordingly before the bot goes with dodges autododges etc. I-O-W the system is screwed as you and I well know. I never said it made sense

Would this possible go easier if we just gave a -6 to initiative to tech opponents instead, applied only to their position in the order if they choose to attack the knight?

The +6 doesn't seem like it should allow the knight to attack the borg faster than the LLW can fireball him first since he shouldn't act faster relative to the LLW who might want to kill the knight before he can stab the borg.

Axelmania wrote:Would this possible go easier if we just gave a -6 to initiative to tech opponents instead, applied only to their position in the order if they choose to attack the knight?

The +6 doesn't seem like it should allow the knight to attack the borg faster than the LLW can fireball him first since he shouldn't act faster relative to the LLW who might want to kill the knight before he can stab the borg.

Attacks happen after initiative rolls, so that would not work in practice.

Here's another fun question guys...

I can't remember where to find the "jump in front of a fireball meant for orphan Timmy" sacrificial dodge rules...

But with CKs getting bonuses to dodge tech...

Is that only tech aimed AT them, or woudl they also get bonus to sacrificial dodge in front of Timmy if he's shot at w/ a laser?

Axelmania wrote:Here's another fun question guys...

I can't remember where to find the "jump in front of a fireball meant for orphan Timmy" sacrificial dodge rules...

But with CKs getting bonuses to dodge tech...

Is that only tech aimed AT them, or woudl they also get bonus to sacrificial dodge in front of Timmy if he's shot at w/ a laser?

That sounds so cinematic and cool that I'd probably allow it. Dammit, Timmy, learn to duck!