Malvoren and Robot PC's

[Stupnick]

OK so just looking for either official rules regarding this or popular opinion...

One player plays Malvoren

One plays a Robot PC

Can the Malvoren meld with the Robot PC? I assume that's a yes per their abilities. Now, can both of them actually take turns during the same combat round? so effectively getting double actions with the robots weapon systems?

[Natasha]

I would say no to double actions. The malvoren takes control of the system.

[Blue_Lion]

I would have to agree only one would be in control. The malvoren takes control of the robot to do his actions, blocking all other actions from the controlled robot. Only one player can control the body at any given time.

[dreicunan]

OK so just looking for either official rules regarding this or popular opinion...

One player plays Malvoren

One plays a Robot PC

Can the Malvoren meld with the Robot PC? I assume that's a yes per their abilities. Now, can both of them actually take turns during the same combat round? so effectively getting double actions with the robots weapon systems?

If by "Robot PC" you mean an AI style robot, then RAW I'd say that they can't meld with it. Nothing in their powers implies the ability to meld with a machine with conscious control. Otherwise, what would stop them frommelding with a full conversion cyborg?

[Curbludgeon]

The potential for abuse here is a situation where, say, a Glitter Boy gets fitted with an A.I., a Malvoren climbs inside, and the two players contend they should be able to fire the Boom Gun 20+ times/round with all their combined bonuses. That's a bit silly. A harsh interpretation would be that the robot and Malvoren, even should they wish to cooperate, would be constantly in conflict, turning combat into a three-legged laser race. That's some GM power-trip nonsense.

Assuming it's a robot large enough to accomodate a couple of hundred pounds of interspersed muscle tissue, it's probably large enough to have multiple weapon systems. Piloted robots with dedicated gunners take advantage of a combined number of actions/round, and I think this situation can be similarly approached.

Given the 4 level skill bonus Malvoren get, they would more often prove the pilot, who then cedes control of weapon/communication/sensory systems which can target independently of overall movement to the robot intelligence. Bonuses shouldn't stack between the two characters, and control of a given weapon can change from round to round.

As for binding with a FC Borg, the increased time/damage/PPE cost make it not particulaly viable as an in-combat tactic. The damage taken in subsuming an entire cyborg could easily be enough to kill the Malvoren. Please note that this damage is not taken when merging with Weapon Systems or War Machine, which is why I argue a robot would have to have sufficient space for the Malvoren's bulk. If a character tried to fully merge with a temporarily subdued FC Borg or an A.I. that wasn't into it, I suppose some sort of battle of wills scenario would be the fun way to handle it.

[Natasha]

OK so just looking for either official rules regarding this or popular opinion...

One player plays Malvoren

One plays a Robot PC

Can the Malvoren meld with the Robot PC? I assume that's a yes per their abilities. Now, can both of them actually take turns during the same combat round? so effectively getting double actions with the robots weapon systems?

If by "Robot PC" you mean an AI style robot, then RAW I'd say that they can't meld with it. Nothing in their powers implies the ability to meld with a machine with conscious control. Otherwise, what would stop them frommelding with a full conversion cyborg?

That's a good point. It's definitely worth considering the cut-off point in robot "evolution" with regards to the malvoren abilities. I think that most robots are just computer programmes, even the advanced bots. Transferred intelligence is the single exception, which I would consider being a cyborg at least insofar as the malvoren are concerned. All that said, perhaps all Robot R.C.C.s are ruled out as they are not considered "robot vehicles". Either road, I don't see much of a point as the malvoren takes control of the system, which leaves the other player a spectator of their character.

[rem1093]

I always thought that an AI in a Bot or Power armor, would be more like Iron Man's Jarvis. It would control some systems, such as Comms, Radar, ext. but movement and weapons would be all pilot. As for the Malvoren, well i think it would override the AI. Or you could just give whatever bonuses it has to just what it can/does control, this is what I'm doing with a Technojacker that I about to start playing.

[The Beast]

I always thought that an AI in a Bot or Power armor, would be more like Iron Man's Jarvis.

Some AIs are just that. Other AIs are more like Ultron (IQ-wise).

[wyrmraker]

Personally, I would rule that Borgs would be immune to the melding from a Malvoren, considering that they're considered immune to all forms of Telemechanics as of RUE p.47. Yeah, I know it's less psychic power and more direct mergence, but where do we draw the line with compatibility?

The rules for robots are less defined, as I recall. After all, does Telemechanics work on a PC robot? Any of the robots? Because if so, the CS Skelebot legions would be in for a lot of problems from just about any techno-wizard armed with Invisibility to Sensors (Mercenary Adventures p15). So would the Shemarrian Nation, for that matter.

[Natasha]

Rules mention "robot vehicles" but I would extend it to bots but not bots with transferred intelligence or to borgs.

[ShadowLogan]

OK so just looking for either official rules regarding this or popular opinion...

One player plays Malvoren

One plays a Robot PC

Can the Malvoren meld with the Robot PC? I assume that's a yes per their abilities. Now, can both of them actually take turns during the same combat round? so effectively getting double actions with the robots weapon systems?

Can they meld, yes.

Take turns during the same round? That would depend on the level of merging:
1. Meld With Weapon Systems. Yes both can take turns, but the robot AI loses access to the specific system the Malvoren has melded to.
2. Meld with War Machines. No. The Malvoren assumes full control over the Robot.

If by "Robot PC" you mean an AI style robot, then RAW I'd say that they can't meld with it. Nothing in their powers implies the ability to meld with a machine with conscious control. Otherwise, what would stop them frommelding with a full conversion cyborg?

Machines under conscious control aren't even considered/brought up though.

Re FCB melding. Each cybernetic implant they meld with does damage, and as a full conversion borg the torso and full replacement limbs (4) are going to do a lot of SDC & HP damage (that is both at the same time, not consecutive), something like 15d6 SDC and 15d4 HP in total IINM without consideration of extras (weapons, sensors, etc). To make matters worse the damage can't be healed until they unmeld, which does damage to them again (essentially doing 30d6 SDC and 30d4 HP minimum in total). Higher level Malvoren (or those with physical skills for the PE/SDC bonus) have a better chance of survival, but they are still going to be hurting and close to death.

It should also be remembered that it takes time for the Malvoren to meld, so melding with a FCB likely isn't going to be used in combat.

[Curbludgeon]

How many crew members of a robot vehicle can be replaced by one Malvoren? Triax brain transplants allow one brain to control a robot that would require 2 crew members. Should a Malvoren be able to replace more people than that? The X-5001 Devastator Mk II normally has a crew of eight, but can be operated at "nearly full capabitily[sic] with a crew half that size." If a Malvoren merges to serve as the pilot, can someone else be stationed as one of the normally four gunners? Consider instead a Phase World spaceship. Even the smallest cruisers have crews in the double digits. Should a Malvoren be able to replace all of them? Many point defense weapons on spaceships are capable of switching between automatic and manual targeting. If a Malvoren takes control of a ship can they cede control of a point defense weapon back to auto-targeting computers, or are they forced to retain active control? What happens when a Malvoren merges with an extremely large war machine, like a Phase World Dreadnought, or a Triax Mobile Infantry Strike Base? Is there some maximum size to which their controlling fibers may extend?

A reductio ad absurdum like the above suggests that allowing a Malvoren to cede control of subsystems within war machines they are currently piloting has to be allowable at some point. Instead of choosing arbitrary values of machine size and virtual crew members, it seems more useful to simply curtail potential abuses regarding bonus stacking or weapon sharing in the same round, and Rule of Cool any potential narrative synergies. To that end, I've been thinking about the different methods by which Palladium has approached this same basic idea, and am debating how much of it I'd like to write up into a hypothetical party.

The Voyages of The New Flesh;
or, What if David Cronenberg directed an outer space office comedy?

Members:
Altess Noble: "The VC"
Dwarven Guildmaster Transferred Intelligence (via spell of the same name in Rifter 59): "Joyce at the Head Office, who used to head up R&D but now just hosts 'Corporate retreats' as a way to get a tax write-off on her rental property"
Machine Person & Malvoren: "The couple that turned making out at the holiday party into a relationship and somehow got HR to sign off on it"
15th level Technojacker w/Transfer Consciousness+Variable Configuration Vehicle Armor from Rifter 70:"The old guy in Facilities who got grandfathered in from that acquisition of SplicerTech. Has tons of experience, but doesn't care about IEEE compliance at all"
Superhero w/Major: Mechano-Link, Machine Merge, Techno-Form and Minor: Speed Tasking: "The self-proclaimed wunderkind who thinks we just need to 'scrap all your bloated system architecture, man'."
Altess Advocates: "the latest in a series of interchangeable interns"

Ship stats (using Rifter 34)

Spoiler:

Ship Type: Light Freighter: +20 Misc +40 FTL, +Brig (removed, +20)
Origin: Sponsor Owned +250
Age: Middle Aged +70
Sponsorship: Independent +20
Manufacturer: Homemade +20
Sublight drive: High-End Military 50
FTL drive: CG-D 40
Atmospheric Flight: Average 30
Weapon Systems:
***Forward: double-barreled Particle Beam (2) 80
***Point defense: HI Laser+Mini Missile 60
Shields: Heavy Military Shields 50
Armor: Heavy Armor 40
Sensor Systems: Military Grade Sensor 30
Stealth: CAF Sensor Shielding 20, Sensor Baffling Array 20
Miscellaneous: Small Vehicle Bay (x2) 10

Sketch of fluff, very much WIP

Spoiler:

Originally conceived as a plaything of the idle rich, the ship known as The New Flesh has gained notice among social scientists throughout the Three Galaxies as an incubation chamber for new existential modalities. The ever-increasingly desperate need to alleviate boredom amongst those in their third millennium led an Altess Seenth stripped of her Armoria commission to solicit experimental biome designs that might be incorporated into pleasurecraft. Perhaps it was commisseration between relative outcasts, but when a disgraced UWW Guildmaster presented an audacious prospectus regarding temporary mind transfer her sympathy blossomed into interest.

The Guildmaster's personal research drew upon xyr knowledge of Techno-Wizardry and Rune Magic, combined with a somewhat more than passing interest in Bio-Wizardry, and was focused on the production of techno-organic "blanks" into which minds could be transferred. While xe had an initial hope of helping people like the Ivalians, those infirm who were unable to be helped with healing magic yet did not wish to submit to bionic conversion, the Altess backer saw methods by which one could seek out extreme experiences via temporary resleeving.

[Blue_Lion]

I would say while they can operate what every they meld with, they would only count as one operator. Just like I would not give a traix brain the actions of two crew members even though the can run features that require two people normally. So if he was the pilot, it would not interfere with gunners and if he was a gunner it would not count as pilot in a multi crew vehicle. Basically 1 charter per roll.


In any unmanned robot there is only 1 roll. Malvoren takes control then the normal "AI" can't, if the AI is in control then the Malcoren can't be.

IF a GM wanted to be nice he might allow control to be transferred between actions but a number of actions would have been lost equal to the number of actions taken.

[Curbludgeon]

Ooh, I can throw a Nightbane and Biomech familiars into the mix. As far as the storyline goes they would be fellow refugees brought in via rift experiments of the Guildmaster in addition to the Technojacker and HU superhero. Also, a better way to allow the Guildmaster to inhabit a spaceship would be via a scroll of the Earth Warlock spell Transference of Essence & Intellect.

Morphus selections are Computer Brain and Universal Connection Port, with Plasmoid helping with the body horror theme. Talents would be Lightning Rider and Deus ex Machina. Based solely on names from the Dark Designs preview, the talents Encryption, Hotwire, Livewire, Switchboard Operator, Overdrive, and Too Much Stereo, and the Morphus Sci-Fi Table might also be applicable. Once I get a copy I'll verify this.

[Levi]

Well... very interesting question. I had not fully considered this angle when creating the Malvoren. Their power is really a supernatural extreme and specialized form of telemechanics. Fundamental limitations like melding with an actual full or partial conversion 'borg are off limits.

For standard AI, I would allow the Malvoren to meld. However, they would take control from the AI. They would use their own skills and bonuses.

For a transferred intelligence, I would allow the intelligence a saving through to resist the merge. If they fail, they will be merged and lose control of their body and all systems.