plasma and 'energy'

[Axelmania]

Isn't plasma more of a hot goopy mess than actual energy? Or am I thinking of something else that's kinda firey... ah I'm thinking of Napalm.

Napalm and Plasma seem separate concepts but for some reason I feel like I saw them conflated somewhere... does this ring a bell? Maybe some creature immune to fire/plasma/napalm or something?

I'm sure somewhere I've probably seen plasma weapons called energy weapons, and their being powered by E-clips implies that...

If it's ionized gas then maybe even if e-clips add ionic energy to the gas, it's actually a gas attack?

Or wasn't there a case of a distinction where 'energy' only referred to pure energy (like energy expulsion: energy) while fire and plasma were treated as something different?

Though it seems like light/lasers or ion weapons get classed as energy often enough.

[glitterboy2098]

plsma, the 4th state of matter, is defined by the electrons stripping themselves away from the nuclei of atoms, resulting in basically a mixed mass of electrons and proton-nuetron-clusters. as such is can be compared to basically a rather messy particle field/beam.

Most palladium 'plasma' weapons (aside from the kittani stuff) aren't true plasma, but rather either just a hot 'near plasma' state (plasma cannons/ejectors, etc), or a physical napalm like substance that becomes plasma or near-plasma as it burns. (Plasma warheads, Napalm-P)

it is likely that Plasma rifles/cannons/ejectors use the ambient atmosphere as the physical material to convert to plasma, or do require some sort of material fuel but uses so little per shot that the supply can last hundreds of shots. (plasma is so energetic that very little goes a long way)

[drewkitty ~..~]

This has been over time and time again.

Plasma Beam weapons are directed energy weapons thus fall under heading of energy. Just like Ion and Particle beam weapons are 'energy'.

Plasma Warheads are chemical burning "Super NAPALM", a heat weapon.

Most of the "plasma" smallarms in HU fall under the "Super NAPALM" category, cause they are super flame throwers.

[Nekira Sudacne]

So what are the naruni plasma cartiges? Are they stable super burning chemicals, or some alien substance that reqires only a little charge at the right frequancy to convert to plasma state matter?

[Axelmania]

In the case of Naruni weapons where energy is propelled from a broken canister instead of converted from an e-clip, couldn't that possibly be the napalm type?

[Axelmania]

In the case of Naruni weapons where energy is propelled from a broken canister instead of converted from an e-clip, couldn't that possibly be the napalm type?

[drewkitty ~..~]

So what are the naruni plasma cartridges? Are they stable super burning chemicals, or some alien substance that requires only a little charge at the right frequency to convert to plasma state matter?

good question.

I put them in plasma beam weapons (as I also do CTF).

[J_cobbers]

NE plasma canisters, per the Mercenaries source book entry on the NE-10, have a mechanical primer that when struck causes the cartridge to convert to energy, causing a plasma discharge. So they are a plasma weapon as near as I can tell.

Kinda also always wondered what would happen if one is detonated outside a Nurani rifle, could they be modified or improvised into the equivalent of a fusion block or plasma hand grenade?

[Nekira Sudacne]

There are rules for making improvised land mines and bombs from naruni plasma cartiges in one of the books

[glitterboy2098]

they show up in Coalition War Campaign

[guardiandashi]

I look at plasma weapons in general as firing electron stripped matter.
However for me what distinguishes a plasma weapon from a particle beam is the amount of plasma and the speed the shot travels at.

A particle beam fires a steady stream of particles for a period of time.
A plasma weapon fires more of a plasma 'bullet'
A plasma ejector fires a bigger amount of plasma but slower

I would also say a particle beam is upwards of 90% of C
A plasma weapon is more 80- 90% of C
A plasma ejector is more like 60-70% of C

That's just my opinion of course.

As to how the various weapons work shrug

[drewkitty ~..~]

I look at plasma weapons in general as firing electron stripped matter.
However for me what distinguishes a plasma weapon from a particle beam is the amount of plasma and the speed the shot travels at.

A particle beam fires a steady stream of particles for a period of time.
A plasma weapon fires more of a plasma 'bullet'
A plasma ejector fires a bigger amount of plasma but slower

I would also say a particle beam is upwards of 90% of C
A plasma weapon is more 80- 90% of C
A plasma ejector is more like 60-70% of C

That's just my opinion of course.

As to how the various weapons work shrug

Sorry, but you have to look at the weapon's stats to make those distinctions when talking about "plasma" weapons.
If it say it is a plasma Beam, then you can safely presume that it is a relative of the particle and ion beam weapons. But with every other 'Plasma' weapon you have to dig into the details to see what it really is. Whether or not it is a beam weapon or some sort of flamethrower / incendiary gel weapon.

[HWalsh]

I don't think we should bring physics into this. I did that once before, pointing out about "double layer" protecting from MD lasers and even explained how that would work according to physics. The issue is that literally 90% of the Rifts MD weapons would have odd effects that they simply don't.

[eliakon]

I don't think we should bring physics into this. I did that once before, pointing out about "double layer" protecting from MD lasers and even explained how that would work according to physics. The issue is that literally 90% of the Rifts MD weapons would have odd effects that they simply don't.

My basic answer is that every time someone drags physics into a game discussion someone kills a cat girl and that we should think of the cat girls.
My advanced answer is that Physics in Palladiums Universes works in subtlety different ways and leave it at that.

[HWalsh]

I don't think we should bring physics into this. I did that once before, pointing out about "double layer" protecting from MD lasers and even explained how that would work according to physics. The issue is that literally 90% of the Rifts MD weapons would have odd effects that they simply don't.

My basic answer is that every time someone drags physics into a game discussion someone kills a cat girl and that we should think of the cat girls.
My advanced answer is that Physics in Palladiums Universes works in subtlety different ways and leave it at that.

More or less agreed.

We end up with weird things when we talk physics and Rifts.

The only way, for example, for MD attacks not to penetrate MD armor if even a single point of MD is remaining, is if the energy from the hit is somehow instantly transferred. That actually works, as an example, and it explains how MD weapons do as much damage as they do. (Its why MD rounds against soft targets are as effective as they are, when, realistically an unarmored human would take far less damage than an armored one if we start taking physics and speed of penetration into account. The reason why a bullet that pulls a "through and through" is much more survivable than one that stops and/or bounces around inside the target.)

The problem with that, on the other hand, is things like "two thin sheets of wood" between shooter and target would completely stop an MD attack... Which they totally do... By the rules... However it *feels* really weird.

[flatline]

Instead of ignoring physics, if something can be fixed without too much trouble, just fix it.

For instance, since plasma is essentially really, really hot gas, the idea of a plasma beam is nonsensical. The gas would attempt to disperse in every direction rather than the direction of the beam. So simply change any plasma weapon to use ammunition that explodes/converts on impact. This is dirt simple with the naruni weapons since they already consume ammo. E-clip or vehicle powered plasma weapons will need to be changed to require physical ammo. As a benefit, you can probably increase weapon range and perhaps even add an area effect to the weapons.

--flatline

[ShadowLogan]

Napalm and Plasma seem separate concepts but for some reason I feel like I saw them conflated somewhere... does this ring a bell? Maybe some creature immune to fire/plasma/napalm or something?

Review plasma missile descriptions, they go back at least as far as Robotech 1E where it is described (1E Main book pg38) as "Plasma: is a new, concentrated, liquid heat, ten times hotter than normal napalm", it is repeated word for word in Rifts Main Book (pg43, and maybe repeated elsewhere). The text is absent from RUE, but pg 362 (RUE) from a similar section mentions "Also note that creatures resistant or impervious to fire and heat are unharmed buy plasma weapons".

Burster RCC (RMB pg102) offers protection from M.D Plasma under ability #1 (only takes 1/10th damage, I'm to lazy right now to do a wider search, so there are likely other things that are fire/heat resistant that include plasma by specific mention)

I'm sure somewhere I've probably seen plasma weapons called energy weapons, and their being powered by E-clips implies that...

Per W.P Skills in Rifts Main Book (pg33) within the skill description for "W.P. Heavy Energy Weapons: Includes plasma ejector, rail guns, and similar high tech, mega-damage weapons." The skill isn't in RUE (pg329), but the basic desription is used in "W.P. Heavy Mega-Damage Weapons" skill (which is a tad bit more descriptive in what it covers).

If it's ionized gas then maybe even if e-clips add ionic energy to the gas, it's actually a gas attack?

Indications are though it is considered a type of heat attack.

[J_cobbers]

Perhaps we should simply equate plasma weapons with the MDC equivalent of Dr. Evil Voice "Liquid hot mag-ma" End Dr. Evil Voice fired at a high velocity.

[Library Ogre]

NE plasma canisters, per the Mercenaries source book entry on the NE-10, have a mechanical primer that when struck causes the cartridge to convert to energy, causing a plasma discharge. So they are a plasma weapon as near as I can tell.

Kinda also always wondered what would happen if one is detonated outside a Nurani rifle, could they be modified or improvised into the equivalent of a fusion block or plasma hand grenade?

For the truly suicidal: A Plasma Cartridge Zip Gun.

[J_cobbers]

NE plasma canisters, per the Mercenaries source book entry on the NE-10, have a mechanical primer that when struck causes the cartridge to convert to energy, causing a plasma discharge. So they are a plasma weapon as near as I can tell.

Kinda also always wondered what would happen if one is detonated outside a Nurani rifle, could they be modified or improvised into the equivalent of a fusion block or plasma hand grenade?

For the truly suicidal: A Plasma Cartridge Zip Gun.

LMAO that's be one of those instances where the character says "Hey guys, WATCH THIS!" Booom!

[eliakon]

Perhaps we should simply equate plasma weapons with the MDC equivalent of Dr. Evil Voice "Liquid hot mag-ma" End Dr. Evil Voice fired at a high velocity.

Well I certainly have MY new headcanon now