Salvage in Rifts

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:23 am

For the longest time on these boards, I've read about people salvaging their enemies for gear, which they tend to turn into money.

Can I get some anecdotes about how this has gone? What have your experiences been?

The group I'm running for has a TW who is all kinds of tech skills, he's an operator with magic, essentially. Though even he's like, "meh, we can leave most of this crap."

And I tend to agree with him, above board. The act of salvage itself is dangerous, you tend to be on a former battlefield and literally anything could go wrong with the damaged equipment laying about. Not only that, but the vehicles you'd need to transport it, the contacts needed to sell the components, the haggling over value...I mean, if you NEED the money, and have the means, it's great. Though it's very time consuming.

Anyway, just curious how you guys go about it, not how you theoretically would go about it, but how it's actually been done in your games.

guardiandashi · Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:28 am

from what I remember in a lot of cases our "salvage" was fairly simplified as in we didn't deal with a lot of the details involved.

we would move in after the battle was over, and we did a fair number of headshots with heavy weapons, so units were either "fine" or dead with the dead usually involving decapitations and similar.

handguns sidearms, ammo, and such were retrieved by quickly "policing" the area.
body armor (what was left of it) was noted, and either ignored or stripped off the bodies without a lot of details, vehicles and armor were quickly noted, but in some ways it was more or less like we were an active combat unit, with a group of "salvagers" following us around and giving us our "cut" of the stuff we took down

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:33 am

where did you sell it, and did anyone ever track you down for profiting off their friend's deaths?

wyrmraker · Unread post by **wyrmraker** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:39 am

Our last Rifts group was a pretty salvage-heavy group. And to be honest, a lot of the determining what was damaged was down to the GM. Our general consensus was that during a battle a robot's Main Body would be essentially depleted (no armor plate), and only a few things could be salvage from it (usually small electronics and the like). The limbs would be more intact, with 10-60% of the MDC missing (1D6x10%), and be largely salvageable. For weapons, we had a percentage chance of survival in the range of 20% each (in our view, weapons would be targeted first), but that dropped to 5% when missiles were used (blast radius is problematic).

The big money item was always the nuclear battery. As many units use a 20 year one, these could easily and readily be made into field recharge stations (geiger counter was a must for seeing if they were safe, and a TW Shovel of Clay to Lead was very useful in countering radiation), and would fetch a fine price almost anywhere. All we did there was roll a percentile to determine how much life a unit had left, and then drop 20% (1D100-20) to account for non-combat usage.

Hand weapons were determined to be found depending on who was fighting. CS vs anyone: if the CS won, enemy weapons were often either left behind (by the CS Grunts) or booby trapped (by the CS Special Forces). If the CS lost, odds were very likely the site was picked clean by the victors. Factioned behaviors played a large role in determining what was left, but if there was a Glitter Boy downed on that battlefield, it was always hauled off by the victors (that makes a nice trophy for any group).

Now if it was our group against someone else, our group had the equipment to do the on-site salvage. We kept note of what we had hit, how much damage we had done, and how much ammunition was expended. This made salvage easier for the GM to figure out.

As for the salvage itself, once again we had the resources and equipment to do something with it. Nuclear power supplies got made into town power supplies, portable e-clip chargers, and the like. Mounted weaponry made into stationary weapons, a few power armors were repaired, refitted, and then sold, so on and so forth.

We did a lot of logical haggling. Our best bit of haggling was for a Behemoth Explorer (the EX-5 model, from the original RMB). At a standard price of 100 million credits, how many dealers had one of these sitting around, gathering dust? We haggled with Bandito Arms for a used one in exchange for the blueprints and a working model of a Windjammer Skycycle (it was 104 P.A. at the time).

I hope that this helps.

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:01 am

It does in some respects, but in others it brings more questions.

Like, who had the money to pay you guys? Did the GM have salvage business NPC's or did you guys go to NG or other arms dealers and try to pawn it off on them? Because there are good reasons not to take salvage from a group of adventurers when you're trying to run a legit corporation...

In any case, really people should have fun and if not worrying about the little bits and pieces is cool with everyone at the table, good times. Not my call anyway.

Though, did the salvage happen in the field? And what did you use to extract the weapons, power supplies and such? Like...did it take a while? One thing that always bothered me is...say you're using your standard short range radios during combat. You're calling shots to each other, asking for covering fire, telling your mage where to drop the magic net and all that...so...if someone is monitoring comms, they might go, "hmm..fight going on over there, maybe we can vulture it..."

so you get into the middle of stripping everything in the field, you've got this downed UAR unbuttoned and you're right in the meat of disconnecting the reactor when suddenly you get pounced on by banditos.

It seems like that sort of thing could happen pretty often, especially since gangs of bandits are rivals and monitor what happens to the other.

Oh, and as a side note about CS grunts. They'd pile captured weaponry and fusion block it so pesky adventurers like you don't get their mucky fingers all over them.

Pretty standard SOP for post operations.

wyrmraker · Unread post by **wyrmraker** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:17 am

We were mostly working for ourselves, with some secret funding from Joseph Prosek (it was complicated). Most of our stuff we sold to various communities as barter for supplies and the like, and we worked a lot in the New West. There was no shortage of people wanting and needing advanced equipment there.

As for the salvage operations themselves, each operation usually took 2-4 days. My character (Battle Magus) and another character (renegade Maxi-Man) were usually running patrol while the others salvaged (the Psi-Tek led the salvage). The Psi-Tek had a GP-02 Longhorn Heavy Tactical Truck with a crane (from Kitsune's website), so that was extremely useful. And yeah, there were badits and other salvagers that we had to fend off from our prizes.

As for the CS Grunts, we always saw plasma grenades and fusion blocks as Special Assignment items in the CS military, so the average Grunt really didn't have stuff like that on them in our games.

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:39 am

I see, okay. thanks for the chat.

in the special assignment thing, it just means not all of them will have explosives, but someone in a squad should.

wyrmraker · Unread post by **wyrmraker** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:49 am

Alrik Vas wrote:I see, okay. thanks for the chat.

in the special assignment thing, it just means not all of them will have explosives, but someone in a squad should.

Explosives, sure. As in frag grenades, mostly. Pretty much all of the CS Grunts in our game carried 3-4 frag grenades and 2 smoke. All other explosives were on an 'as needed' basis, much like the current military.

Mlp7029 · Unread post by **Mlp7029** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:23 pm

We are playing an independent merc unit working for Tolkeen during the early part of the war with the CS. Tolkeen gives us credit for the gear we recover usually about 10% of the value of the gear. In other games we have had to look around and find a used gear dealer. I have had trouble with someone hunting us after we took their operatives gear. Notably we killed a couple of Spoolgie slaver barges and encountered an Assasin who tried to kill my character for having one of their Armor Medallions. When the assassin finally told us what he wanted I just threw the amulet at him and he left. Turns out these skaters were from another dimension and their Spoolgie did not want Splynncrynth tracking the scouting force back to him via the magical amulets. In the games I have played barter was the primary way of using salvage. E-clips are the best form of currency around in the games I have played.

Killer Cyborg · Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:59 pm

RMB 205-209 discusses the Black Market, and selling to the Black Market.

Looting fallen enemies is Standard Operating Procedure for pretty much anybody I've ever talked to, not just in Rifts but in virtually every RPG I've ever played in.

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:23 am

looting is time consuming and problematic in my experience, which is why I asked for stories.

and some GMs just let you get 50% of the value every time you enter a town, others make you roleplay and haggle. some tell you the town you entered doesn't have the money to pay for the items you salvaged.

sometimes you hold onto the stuff a while and it gets stolen or you have to abandon it.

Killer Cyborg · Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:26 am

Alrik Vas wrote:looting is time consuming and problematic in my experience, which is why I asked for stories.

and some GMs just let you get 50% of the value every time you enter a town, others make you roleplay and haggle. some tell you the town you entered doesn't have the money to pay for the items you salvaged.

sometimes you hold onto the stuff a while and it gets stolen or you have to abandon it.

All part of adventuring!

Usually, we try to travel with vehicles of some kind, so we have plenty of storage space. If you don't have the room, just go for the quick stuff: guns, e-clips, vibro-blades, and anything small like that.
Sometimes if your armor is damaged, you can just swap with a dead guy who has better armor that's more intact, and leave your armor behind. Same with weapons, if you find something better or more expensive than what you currently have.
Same with vehicles, of course.
If you have the time and talent, even if an enemy vehicle is too damaged to drive away from battle, it might be repaired or stripped. Mounted guns can sometimes be removed. Missiles and grenades can be taken for use or for resale, and (of course) there's a good market for nuclear power sources.

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:09 am

Unused munitions on a vehicle you practically blew to hell and back might be a bit dodgy...

Killer Cyborg · Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:12 am

Alrik Vas wrote:Unused munitions on a vehicle you practically blew to hell and back might be a bit dodgy...

In theory, I guess.
But there aren't any rules about munitions in a damaged vehicle being any more dangerous than any other munitions, and (IIRC) missiles are MDC as a rule, so it's not like they're fragile or anything.

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:48 am

it's one of those things where rules don't fit the situation, to me, at least.

I mean, unarmed boomboom isn't necessarily a danger, until it is...though by the rules there's nothing to suggest it would be a problem, yes. There are a lot of things players can do safely because of mechanics (or lack thereof) which a real person in their situation would have serious reservations with.

like, taking a hit from an attack you the player know won't kill you by the numbers...but the person (your character) in that situation, is looking at the mini-missile that's coming right for him and would absolutely love to not be where it's going to, eh? I mean, what, it'll do 40 MD to your 200 MD body armor max? it won't knock you down, won't destroy your weapons, you loose nothing but ablative and if your attack is stronger, you kill the guy because he can't dodge now. Now, if you had a force field...okay, take that shot all day, son. But a high explosive impacting your armor is going to floor you even if it doesn't kill you, but the game doesn't work that way (though I understand it can optionally, which I use).

I kind of see post battlefield salvage as having similar dangers, but there are no rules for it.

sanka · Unread post by **sanka** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:59 am

My old headhunter mostly picked his tagets clean.
E-clips and weapons mostly, for their ease of sales, and E-clips you'd use for yourself...
Armor was mostly damaged beyond it being worht the efford off hauling it around..

You could also help near defenceles villages with the "liberated" weapons...

flatline · Unread post by **flatline** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:37 am

We typically were allowed to sell something to the BM for a standard 10% list value unless it was a high demand item, in which case we might get as much as 30% (these numbers were loosely based on the numbers given in the RMB Black Market description). We could attempt to role play for more money, but it generally wasn't worth the trouble.

However, we were cautious about fencing goods that someone might be looking for (CS agents looking for evidence of who whacked local CS patrols, for instance). That kind of gear we stashed away in dimensional pockets until we had enough to justify making a dimensional hop over to some market unconnected to Rifts Earth (like Phase World). In that case, we had to RP most sales. We actually hired a professional negotiator to handle big sales for us (he got 10% of the sale, with some minimum that I don't remember).

But wait, there's more!

Spending money wasn't generally an issue for us, so converting equipment to money was only an issue if we were planning to make a large purchase for some reason. More often than not, we used looted equipment to supply our allies. For instance, there was a lot of CS weaponry in the hands of the Wormwood resistance forces given or traded to them by our group.

Edit: we didn't salvage as much as we looted. We left behind anything that we couldn't stash quickly. There was still lots of value left on the battlefield for others to claim (if they were brave enough).

--flatline

Razzinold · Unread post by **Razzinold** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:48 pm

We we looted/salvaged our S.O.P. was to quickly do a sweep and remove all of the dead characters' primary weapons, side arms, grenades and spare E-clips. We would grab any vehicles, we've towed an APC behind our APC before because it was in perfect condition but it had a coded start up sequence.

If we thought we had the time, which 9 times out of 10 we did not, we would strip the armour off of them. A few times we just grabbed a few of the bodies and brought them with us, especially if they had visual implants or bionic limbs.

We would keep all the E-clips but would usually sell all the weapons, unless they were packing something awesome/unique.

As for the bodies we have stripped them in the vehicle and tossed them out, we've dropped them off at body chop shops (sometimes armour and all) and they pay us a fee. We would then contact some kind of fence to sell off the weapons, unless we were in our hometown because we have a "go to" guy already in place there.

For the mechanics side of things:

The GM would roll some D10's to determine what we found based on his category system, eg. crappy weapons, fine weapons, quality weapons, high quality, unique/exotic
The GM would just roll some D10's to determine the condition of the armour and weapons.

After every salvage session he would roll to determine if anyone caught wind of what we were doing/attempted to track us down.

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:20 pm

We usually ruled that you could get about 10% of the MD of anything "destroyed" in spare parts for repair. Most intact objects were sold for about 25% value. We didn't have as lenient rules on e-clips (our GM was more of the "repair/replace" school of E-clips), so we also tended to scavenge those heavily.

Found explosives were fun.

Razzinold · Unread post by **Razzinold** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:02 pm

Mark Hall wrote:We usually ruled that you could get about 10% of the MD of anything "destroyed" in spare parts for repair. Most intact objects were sold for about 25% value. We didn't have as lenient rules on e-clips (our GM was more of the "repair/replace" school of E-clips), so we also tended to scavenge those heavily.

Found explosives were fun.

You mean he didn't allow you to recharge them ?

We scavenged all the E-clips because it saved on time and money getting E-clips recharged. Also, we stayed mobile all the time and we stuck to the fringe area(s) (small towns or no towns) so there was no guarantee that they had the proper facilities to recharge our stuff and we didn't know how long to the next place that would.

flatline · Unread post by **flatline** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:21 pm

E-clips, being largely interchangeable (at least within NA) and used in lots of different things, can almost be used as a currency when trading.

We had boxes of them.

--flatline

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:26 pm

Razzinold wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:We usually ruled that you could get about 10% of the MD of anything "destroyed" in spare parts for repair. Most intact objects were sold for about 25% value. We didn't have as lenient rules on e-clips (our GM was more of the "repair/replace" school of E-clips), so we also tended to scavenge those heavily.

Found explosives were fun.

You mean he didn't allow you to recharge them ?

Nope. He ruled that the high cost of e-clip recharging really only made sense if they also had to be repaired, with some cells being replaced, when undergoing a "recharge". Since it required Field Armorer or Weapon Engineer to recharge e-clips, he figured it couldn't simply be a matter of plugging it into a charger and leaving it overnight.

Nightmask · Unread post by **Nightmask** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:39 pm

Mark Hall wrote:
Razzinold wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:We usually ruled that you could get about 10% of the MD of anything "destroyed" in spare parts for repair. Most intact objects were sold for about 25% value. We didn't have as lenient rules on e-clips (our GM was more of the "repair/replace" school of E-clips), so we also tended to scavenge those heavily.

Found explosives were fun.

You mean he didn't allow you to recharge them ?

Nope. He ruled that the high cost of e-clip recharging really only made sense if they also had to be repaired, with some cells being replaced, when undergoing a "recharge". Since it required Field Armorer or Weapon Engineer to recharge e-clips, he figured it couldn't simply be a matter of plugging it into a charger and leaving it overnight.

So he either didn't understand the idea of price gouging, poor economic understanding on the part of the book writers, or just wanted to make things a hassle to screw over the players since those particular skills alone make it clear they're jury-rigging a RECHARGER to recharge e-clips as in having to make a functional device and the e-clips themselves being simple rechargeable batteries that the home-made recharger recharged rather than something that had to actually be repaired.

There is no need to characterize the GM in this case. Disagreeing with them can be done without making comments on their character or intelligence - J

Killer Cyborg · Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:51 pm

E-Clip recharging makes some sense if it takes quite a bit of skill to do, in addition to having the right tools/equipment/powersource.

flatline · Unread post by **flatline** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:51 pm

Mark Hall wrote:
Razzinold wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:We usually ruled that you could get about 10% of the MD of anything "destroyed" in spare parts for repair. Most intact objects were sold for about 25% value. We didn't have as lenient rules on e-clips (our GM was more of the "repair/replace" school of E-clips), so we also tended to scavenge those heavily.

Found explosives were fun.

You mean he didn't allow you to recharge them ?

Nope. He ruled that the high cost of e-clip recharging really only made sense if they also had to be repaired, with some cells being replaced, when undergoing a "recharge". Since it required Field Armorer or Weapon Engineer to recharge e-clips, he figured it couldn't simply be a matter of plugging it into a charger and leaving it overnight.

Well, that's unfortunate. Did he simply make you pay book prices for recharging them or were they worthless once you emptied them of their stored energy?

--flatline

eliakon · Unread post by **eliakon** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:56 pm

Nightmask wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:
Razzinold wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:We usually ruled that you could get about 10% of the MD of anything "destroyed" in spare parts for repair. Most intact objects were sold for about 25% value. We didn't have as lenient rules on e-clips (our GM was more of the "repair/replace" school of E-clips), so we also tended to scavenge those heavily.

Found explosives were fun.

You mean he didn't allow you to recharge them ?

Nope. He ruled that the high cost of e-clip recharging really only made sense if they also had to be repaired, with some cells being replaced, when undergoing a "recharge". Since it required Field Armorer or Weapon Engineer to recharge e-clips, he figured it couldn't simply be a matter of plugging it into a charger and leaving it overnight.

So he either didn't understand the idea of price gouging, poor economic understanding on the part of the book writers, or just wanted to make things a hassle to screw over the players since those particular skills alone make it clear they're jury-rigging a RECHARGER to recharge e-clips as in having to make a functional device and the e-clips themselves being simple rechargeable batteries that the home-made recharger recharged rather than something that had to actually be repaired.

Or maybe he just decided that he wanted to run his game a certain way? Just because you don't like how he chose to interpret the rules doesn't mean that your own personal interpretation is the One True Way. Or that he is wrong for disagreeing with your interpretation. As pointed out he had a justification for his ruling...yes they were recharged, but there was more to it. *shrugs* There is no need to make an Ad Hominem attack on him and project either incompetence or malice upon his decision to play in a different style than the one that you prefer.

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:19 pm

flatline wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:
Razzinold wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:We usually ruled that you could get about 10% of the MD of anything "destroyed" in spare parts for repair. Most intact objects were sold for about 25% value. We didn't have as lenient rules on e-clips (our GM was more of the "repair/replace" school of E-clips), so we also tended to scavenge those heavily.

Found explosives were fun.

You mean he didn't allow you to recharge them ?

Nope. He ruled that the high cost of e-clip recharging really only made sense if they also had to be repaired, with some cells being replaced, when undergoing a "recharge". Since it required Field Armorer or Weapon Engineer to recharge e-clips, he figured it couldn't simply be a matter of plugging it into a charger and leaving it overnight.

Well, that's unfortunate. Did he simply make you pay book prices for recharging them or were they worthless once you emptied them of their stored energy?

Book prices or someone with the skill and some spare parts. IIRC (it's been close to a couple decades since I played Rifts), about 3 dead eclips would yield 2 live ones if all you were working with were eclips; a good chunk of salvage could be used to replace the battery components. It yielded a few things in games... aside from a great joy in attaching guns to nuclear power sources, it also made low-end games a LOT more parsimonious with energy weapons... and even more careful with missiles, since those were an even bigger cost.

flatline · Unread post by **flatline** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:22 pm

Actually, I've always found it strange that there weren't single use power cells for energy weapons.

Perhaps I'll start a thread on that very subject.

--flatline

flatline · Unread post by **flatline** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:25 pm

Mark Hall wrote:
flatline wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:
Razzinold wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:We usually ruled that you could get about 10% of the MD of anything "destroyed" in spare parts for repair. Most intact objects were sold for about 25% value. We didn't have as lenient rules on e-clips (our GM was more of the "repair/replace" school of E-clips), so we also tended to scavenge those heavily.

Found explosives were fun.

You mean he didn't allow you to recharge them ?

Nope. He ruled that the high cost of e-clip recharging really only made sense if they also had to be repaired, with some cells being replaced, when undergoing a "recharge". Since it required Field Armorer or Weapon Engineer to recharge e-clips, he figured it couldn't simply be a matter of plugging it into a charger and leaving it overnight.

Well, that's unfortunate. Did he simply make you pay book prices for recharging them or were they worthless once you emptied them of their stored energy?

Book prices or someone with the skill and some spare parts. IIRC (it's been close to a couple decades since I played Rifts), about 3 dead eclips would yield 2 live ones if all you were working with were eclips; a good chunk of salvage could be used to replace the battery components. It yielded a few things in games... aside from a great joy in attaching guns to nuclear power sources, it also made low-end games a LOT more parsimonious with energy weapons... and even more careful with missiles, since those were an even bigger cost.

As a player, I could live with that.

--flatline

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:50 am

Several games I have been in as a player, the GMs were a bit loose with his interpretation of the rules. Some of the common things have happened are the following:

Blowing the heads off of Armor (PA and Body), then destroying the Main Body of the suit next to it.
Using Electrokenesis to open Glitterboy's and then shooting the body
Popping hatches on Robots and dropping grenades (Those controls are made of MD right?)

Now personally, I run my games quite a bit different. Equipment is rare, combat with humans is rare, and towns are rare. When combat is over, things come looking. Smoke, fire, and loud noises bring bigger and badder enemies for the players to fight.

So when combat starts, they are on a clock.

Larger CS pieces of equipment have tracking equipment on it. The CS send out trained (Human) soldiers and want to see them come back.

My world is darker and grittier than those portrayed in later books. There is a reason why the Coalition uses skelebots and Dog Boys in their ranks.

Nightmask · Unread post by **Nightmask** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:34 am

eliakon wrote:
Nightmask wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:
Razzinold wrote:You mean he didn't allow you to recharge them ?

Nope. He ruled that the high cost of e-clip recharging really only made sense if they also had to be repaired, with some cells being replaced, when undergoing a "recharge". Since it required Field Armorer or Weapon Engineer to recharge e-clips, he figured it couldn't simply be a matter of plugging it into a charger and leaving it overnight.

So he either didn't understand the idea of price gouging, poor economic understanding on the part of the book writers, or just wanted to make things a hassle to screw over the players since those particular skills alone make it clear they're jury-rigging a RECHARGER to recharge e-clips as in having to make a functional device and the e-clips themselves being simple rechargeable batteries that the home-made recharger recharged rather than something that had to actually be repaired.

Or maybe he just decided that he wanted to run his game a certain way? Just because you don't like how he chose to interpret the rules doesn't mean that your own personal interpretation is the One True Way. Or that he is wrong for disagreeing with your interpretation. As pointed out he had a justification for his ruling...yes they were recharged, but there was more to it. *shrugs* There is no need to make an Ad Hominem attack on him and project either incompetence or malice upon his decision to play in a different style than the one that you prefer.

I didn't make an attack, Ad Hominem or otherwise, nor did I say my view was the One True Way so don't be trying to slap that negative view on my response. You said he declared that due to the cost of recharging that E-clips must break after being used and require repair, even though nowhere in the book is that even remotely suggested, and that because you quite reasonably needed someone with the appropriate skill to build a Recharger that it somehow meant it was a costly and difficult task to recharge E-clips which again just because it takes a particular skill to build something doesn't have any bearing on whether or not it would be difficult to plug something into it for recharging. It doesn't logically follow. What few canon rechargers we see also support that, since none of them say it's a difficult arcane process to recharge E-clips with them or that E-clips break and require repair before you can even recharge them.

wyrmraker · Unread post by **wyrmraker** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:27 am

Depending on the style of the GM (namely, the ones who erroneously insisted on a factor of 'realism'), my use of regular Telemechanics in salvage can get brutal. Passcodes to doors and hatches are one thing, but when I start asking where the emergency hatch release lever is (this is standard on military armored vehicles, in case of total power loss ro battle damage so that medics and mechanics can get inside), they start telling me how that doesn't make any sense, until I start telling them the exact locations for the hatch on military aircraft, Bradly IFV, and the M1A1 Abrahms tank. Then they start running for cover trying to make excuses. Especially when it comes to the Glitter Boy (which, being Golden Age in origin, would almost *have* to have an emergency access method).

Nightmask · Unread post by **Nightmask** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:59 am

Salvage and resale tend to be more than a bit off anyway. After all how often do you see someone with a car worth 10k selling it for just 2k instead of finding someone who'll purchase it for at least 8k if not the full 10k? The more expensive something is the less likely someone's going to just sell it for pennies on the dollar and the more people are going to be willing to pay for it.

Library Ogre · Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:14 am

Nightmask wrote:Salvage and resale tend to be more than a bit off anyway. After all how often do you see someone with a car worth 10k selling it for just 2k instead of finding someone who'll purchase it for at least 8k if not the full 10k? The more expensive something is the less likely someone's going to just sell it for pennies on the dollar and the more people are going to be willing to pay for it.

True, to an extent... but you're also pretty glad to get pennies on the dollar when some maniac has carved the roof off the car with vibro-knife.

MADMANMIKE · Unread post by **MADMANMIKE** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:51 am

The RIFTS Game Master Shields included Comprehensive official Salvage & Repair rates for robots, vehicles, armor and weapons. As a G.M. I wanted concrete numbers to work with and Kev was happy to have me put them together.

When I run it depends on the session; sometimes I'll have them detail their efforts at salvaging, other times I'll gloss over it and give them a number they can get when they take the items in.

eliakon · Unread post by **eliakon** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:37 pm

Mark Hall wrote:
Nightmask wrote:Salvage and resale tend to be more than a bit off anyway. After all how often do you see someone with a car worth 10k selling it for just 2k instead of finding someone who'll purchase it for at least 8k if not the full 10k? The more expensive something is the less likely someone's going to just sell it for pennies on the dollar and the more people are going to be willing to pay for it.

True, to an extent... but you're also pretty glad to get pennies on the dollar when some maniac has carved the roof off the car with vibro-knife.

The difference also between a pawnshop who will pay you a tiny bit of cash now as opposed to taking the time to run some want adds, put up a craigslist.....
Yeah you COULD get more....if your going to go full retail...

glitterboy2098 · Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:12 pm

actually, the listed resale value tends to be "selling to the black market" values.. much like a car dealership, they're going to try and minimize the money on the 'trade in' in an effort to get the most out of the deal. much like how when someone is selling a used car themselves, they usually want close to what they payed for it.. but if they're trading it in to a dealership before buying something new, they'll usually settle for a small fraction of the actual value.

if you want better value for a used item, you have to sell it yourself.. and in rifts that isn't going to be be very easy. it's not like you can list it on Ebay and craigslist, or take out an ad in the paper.

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:28 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:if you want better value for a used item, you have to sell it yourself.. and in rifts that isn't going to be be very easy. it's not like you can list it on Ebay and craigslist, or take out an ad in the paper.

FOR SALE

1 Coalition UAR-1

Some fire damage and laser scorching. Interior needs to be cleaned & panels repaired. 2.5 million OBO

Dog_O_War · Unread post by **Dog_O_War** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:34 pm

I have a method for loot.

I assign a percentage to the value based on its rarity; "common" gear is worth 25% on resale, which can be improved by bartering (player rolls, then adds the percentage he beat the skill by, +5% for succeeding), but the value goes up or down based on repairs required.

They can perform repairs if they are able to, using salvage instead as material, or by paying for the repairs.

Also, if they are in a town in the books, then the town has what is listed, so if there is a merchant who buys salvage/black market goods, then they can sell this stuff. If I create a town, I simply decide ahead of time whether or not there is someone who does this.

My players are able to make some decent cash off of salvaging, but can also lose money due to repairs; it's up to them to decide what is salvageable basically. And I find it works well, too. I've seen them make economic decisions based off of this, but because I don't really pull punches, I've seen them make survival decisions as well.

random_username · Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:33 pm

Alrik Vas wrote:For the longest time on these boards, I've read about people salvaging their enemies for gear, which they tend to turn into money.

Can I get some anecdotes about how this has gone? What have your experiences been?

The group I'm running for has a TW who is all kinds of tech skills, he's an operator with magic, essentially. Though even he's like, "meh, we can leave most of this crap."

And I tend to agree with him, above board. The act of salvage itself is dangerous, you tend to be on a former battlefield and literally anything could go wrong with the damaged equipment laying about. Not only that, but the vehicles you'd need to transport it, the contacts needed to sell the components, the haggling over value...I mean, if you NEED the money, and have the means, it's great. Though it's very time consuming.

Anyway, just curious how you guys go about it, not how you theoretically would go about it, but how it's actually been done in your games.

Acquiring Salvage:
1) Eliminate the pilot/operator without damaging the armor. Direct damage to pilot's HP, etc.
2) Eliminate just the door of a vehicle (APCs, etc) then board it and quickly eliminate the crew (Magic Net, etc) before they can trip a self destruct. Vehicle remains mobile/useable for immediate exit from area while only requiring a replacement door. Also handy for transporting additional salvage.
3) Head shots on power armor then simply have the missing tech replaced. Alternatively if multiple of same type of power armor then head shot target 1 and main body eliminate target 2 = enough salvage for a complete suit via PC repair or hired repair.
4) MDC monsters may have primitive natural armor and weapon component salvage value (skinning/hide prep/etc) plus possible food via appropriate prep (W19 Australia throughout book). They may also have lairs/nests that may have been built from old loot (weaponry, etc) or contain shiny objects (gems, etc). (tracking) Barbarian Eco Wizard (W26p64 Dino Swamp) can do even more (TW equivalent from dinosaur remains, wood, and presumably similar like Rhino-Buffalo, etc). Differing intended salvage may require head shots (natural armor, food), or main body shots (EW constructs from dino teeth/jaws/skulls), etc.

Quickly and Effectively Searching Remains:
1) Ability to sense magic items might be helpful.
2) High perception, understanding of item value (appropriate skills/appraisal/tech/etc), exceptional speed, relevant strength, etc may also be necessary.
3) Other special senses may be helpful: heightened smell, unique senses, etc.

Offloading loot to NPCs:
1) Selling to the Black Market provides low credits for a fully functional item. A damaged item typically needs to be repaired first before even qualifying for that minimal value.
2) Keeping functional items as backup gear in secret stashes/bases/etc may be a decent way to go to maintain the full value of the items.
3) Having valuable contacts with ideal medium sized fortified towns with enough credits to purchase items, limited access to items (manufacturing, trade, limited/no access to black market reps, etc), and far enough away from any repercussions could be ideal sources to sell to (higher %). Being a City Trader or Merchant Trader (or similar) (W19 Australia) is probably the most direct pre-made way of doing this though basic role playing / background / etc could achieve it as well.

Other Issues:
1) Make sure it isn't traceable via a dead-man's switch homing signal or similar. Tech, Psionic, or Magic traceability of some sort.
2) Make sure it isn't track-able back to the PCs before, during, or after being offloaded/hidden.
3) Make sure any anti-tampering or unauthorized pilot self destruct mechanisms/programming have been disabled.

Shark_Force · Unread post by **Shark_Force** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:15 pm

another major way to obtain salvage: make your enemies surrender, rather than laser them all to death.

Killer Cyborg · Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:22 pm

The pilot of the TV show "Firefly" is a good illustration of the difference between acquiring loot, and in converting the loot to cash.
But that's only when the GM wants to zoom in on that kind of thing, for an in-depth campaign where all the characters' connections and contacts are fleshed-out NPCs and such, and every move the party makes is more or less role-played out.

A lot of people would rather role-play getting the loot than to play out the hassle of selling it.

Killer Cyborg · Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:22 pm

Shark_Force wrote:another major way to obtain salvage: make your enemies surrender, rather than laser them all to death.

Yes.

Not all NPC bad-guys are fight-to-the-dying-breath fanatics.

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:49 pm

hardly any are, actually.

won a lot of fights by dropping one or two guys unnaturally fast. scared the others pretty good.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:21 am

We generally glossed over the nitty gritty of finding a fence (make at least 2 successful streetwise rolls) and the value was pretty poor most of the time if you wanted credits but it would double if you wanted merchandise. If you brought in a suit of "Bushman" armor worth 32,000 credits new missing its helmet it would drop to 20k and of course the fence is only gonna give you about 20% of that so you are down to 4K for a full (minus helmet) suit of bushman. 8k if you take "trade".

We made lots of head shots because destroying the main body would leave the value at only 20% of the full suit value (arms, legs and helmet was not worth much) and then we would get only 20% of that which is not enough to charge an e-clip...

Some more rare armors were worth more but usually this was what was done.

Weapons (with at least one eclip) would fetch 30-40% of their retail value and the fence would sell them for double that (so still a discount to the end buyer)

wyrmraker · Unread post by **wyrmraker** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:01 am

A skilled Operator or Cyberdoc and a Gunslinger/Battle Magus working in concert could make serious bank as Cyborg Hunters. The Gunslinger targets the head (which, by canon, invariably contains the brain), removing it. The Operator/Cyberdoc salvages the remainder of the unit (easily worth a boatload of credits). Powered armor is much the same. If the GM allows for targeting armor components not listed in the books (hydraulic lines, circuitry junctions, etc), then powered armors and large robots could be crippled by Juicers with vibro-blades (the sort of in-close combat that the Palladium system really specializes in).

flatline · Unread post by **flatline** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:07 am

Sometimes theft is a more effective strategy than salvage.

Just food for thought.

--flatline

Sureshot · Unread post by **Sureshot** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:14 am

Killer Cyborg wrote:RMB 205-209 discusses the Black Market, and selling to the Black Market.

Looting fallen enemies is Standard Operating Procedure for pretty much anybody I've ever talked to, not just in Rifts but in virtually every RPG I've ever played in.

Not to mention also a pretty standard practice in war as well. Sure it sucks that the enemy just shut your buddy frtiz. Now that he is dead he really does not need his three clips of ammo or his food. I just finished watching the Pacific mini series. Some of the American soldiers were salvaging gold teeth from the corpses of dead Japanese soldiers.

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:25 pm

looting the dead, yeah.

selling salvage is another matter.

Sureshot · Unread post by **Sureshot** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:47 pm

I'm assuming that one takes salvage from dead or defeated enemies. Usually the dead ones. It's not like someone is going to casually hand over their weapons, armor and weapons. One may come across some across battlefields. Except either someone has looted it already. Or too damaged as well as exposure to the elements.