Telemechanics?

[Morik]

You call shutting down or the possession of any machine at range that is not cyber-linked meh? The usefulness of these powers in the super tech setting of RIFTS are greater than meh. The only thing that really drops their usefulness is the range and if you plan on just having a wildness campaign.

Oh and you don't have to use the basic telemechanics super power first. It's just a prerequisite power you have to have before you can select tel-possesion and tel-paralysis. That shouldn't be a big deal for the OCC if you house rule he needs to anyway. The Psi Tech OCC gets to use telemechanics whenever he wants to without the expenditure of ISP.

If you want to have a cyberspace like encounter (like being jacked in shadowrun) look at the power of Machine Ghost. Astral projection could be helpful to look at as well.

May I ask what setting/story you plan on running and what other O.C.C.s will the group consist of?

[say652]

I never played shadowrun?? ADnD 2nd edition, Gurps, Magic the Gathering, then I found palladium. Been here ever since.

[FluidicAztec]

Try Rifter 2 page 27: Hacking, Cyberjacking and Supernatural Data Theft Across the Megaverse

And it's Official material

[kaid]

I believe it is also replicated in the aliens unlimited galaxy guide if you have it for the cyberwarefare stuff.

[Nightmask]

From what I can tell, Machine Ghost is an offensive action, where Telemechanics is strictly educational. I wouldn't let someone bypass a firewall with Telemechanics, but I would with Machine Ghost. MG is also more expensive, which tells me that more power is pumped in. Machine Ghost is like making yourself a virus, Telemechanics is like a sensitive version of Electrokinesis.
My group added a house rule that if you have both telemechanics and machine ghost, you can change information (but not reprogram the computer) when you use Machine Ghost. If you have Telemechanic Possession and Machine Ghost, you can add your own programs to the computer (booby-trap something, create your own firewall, summon an antivirus to protect you, etc), but at a PPE cost per attempt.

[Edit]
Here are the rules we came up with:
Telemechanics MG bonus: rewrite neutral data (may activate an antivirus if the information is overwrite protected)
Telemechanic Mental Operation MG bonus: Temporary possession, used similarly to Mentally Possess Others, but with halved duration and only works on programs (not other users). Can also be used to booby trap something to attempt one action of your choosing when activated (trap lasts for 30 minutes/level, action lasts for three seconds, can even be used on active programs to control a single action).
Telemechanic Paralyzation MG bonus: Create a firewall with a natural AR of 15+psychic's level and 1 MDC. Loses 1 AR for every attack deflected. Loses 1 AR every hour it lasts (unless it's on an unsecured or your personal network.). If a physical action is blocked (like starting a computer controlled car) then each attempt at the job is considered a 2d6 hit, 1 MDC attack.
Telemechanic Possession: Possess a program to do your bidding. This is powerful and is used similarly to Mentally Possess Others, but still allows total control over your own body. This can affect any type of program (although larger programs will have protection and higher resistance to possession). 1/2 cost.

The PPE cost, duration and roll requirements for these effects are the same as their originals unless mentioned otherwise (so Machine Ghost: Telemechanic Paralyzation would cost 20 PPE).

By combining Machine Ghost and Telemechanic Possession, this would allow you to control a machine that would normally be out of your range (like through a network).

We also included some of these effects if you have certain hacking skills, but I don't have the rules on hand at the moment.

You might want to reread Telemechanics, a firewall isn't going to do anything to keep someone out using telemechanics because among other things the power gives them complete knowledge of all access codes so bypassing that kind of security would be a breeze.

[kaid]

One other difference in theory is telemechanics requires you to be in physical contact or close proximity to the machine. Machine ghost in theory would allow for more remote hacking via cyberspace where you don't have direct physical access.

If you are in the room with the computer or server in question telemechanics means you pretty much own it and it will cough up any secrets it has to you. Its useful for remote hacking but only in as much as it gives you a big bonus to your skills as you are in direct mental interface with the machine you are using to access the web.

[kaid]

Even with that considered, I still think Telemechanics would be too strong if it gave you instant easy access. Even if it didn't give you all the passwords, it still makes operators almost obsolete. When I consider the fact that it's supposed to be in the same psionic category as Mind Bolt and Hydrokinesis, I feel like it's still just still way too strong. What I'm suggesting is a happy medium. Hacking, after all, is a skill that takes a lot of time to get a decent % for. You don't want your hackers to be useless just because a level 1 Master Psychic took Telemechanics without even knowing what a mouse is.

It does not make operators obsolete as while it allows you to diagnose problems really easy knowing how to fix them and what tools to use is a different thing. That said you get things like psi mechanics who pretty much use psionics to duplicate a lot of what operators do and many operators themselves actually have telemechanics as well. It is a hugely useful tool and a great augmenter for those who have some basic hands on knowledge.


Psionics overall is probably the part of Rifts that could use the most love. The powers are okay in a normal SDC world but in rifts most are nearly useless with a few really head scratchers like mind bolt and a few powers that are just pretty darn amazing like bio manipulation. Some powers like astral projection and machine ghost are just so dependent on your GM they either waffle from super OP to far to dangerous to bother using.

[Nightmask]

It says you understand everything about the machine's (various things) and access codes. To me, that meant you understood what the access codes were made of (a required card, a specific set of 10 numbers, etc), but doesn't tell you what those access codes are. Telemechanics doesn't just apply to computers, but to all machines, even something as simple as a bicycle. Because it's so versatile, it makes sense to me to keep the power of this skill to a manageable minimum (like the difference between Telekinesis and Telekinetic Acceleration). You also don't want Machine Ghost to be completely useless, considering it's more expensive and comes with a risk factor.

Not sure how you think that means you know what the access codes were made of when it says knows everything including the access codes. When you know the access codes you know the access codes, it's that simple. It won't go making Machine Ghost obsolete either since it does have some powerful abilities that Telemechanics doesn't.

[Zer0 Kay]

Even with that considered, I still think Telemechanics would be too strong if it gave you instant easy access. Even if it didn't give you all the passwords, it still makes operators almost obsolete. When I consider the fact that it's supposed to be in the same psionic category as Mind Bolt and Hydrokinesis, I feel like it's still just still way too strong. What I'm suggesting is a happy medium. Hacking, after all, is a skill that takes a lot of time to get a decent % for. You don't want your hackers to be useless just because a level 1 Master Psychic took Telemechanics without even knowing what a mouse is.

But it's okay for your juicer to be useless if a Megahero comes in with superspeed and super strength?
But it's okay for your Giant robot pilot to be useless if you rift into Nightspawn through the mirrorwall?
Point being yes, telemechanics makes hacking for codes and data useless. It does not however make hacking for the purpose of reprogramming or inserting a virus useless... unless, the person with telemechanics has programming too. Know what else makes a hacker pointless? A nightspawn with programming and ride the lightning. Just because someone has another way of doing the same job doesn't make the other pointless. An assassin on the battlefield doesn't make a fighter useless. A D&D wizard doesn't make a rogue with a wand useless.

[Zer0 Kay]

Even with that considered, I still think Telemechanics would be too strong if it gave you instant easy access. Even if it didn't give you all the passwords, it still makes operators almost obsolete. When I consider the fact that it's supposed to be in the same psionic category as Mind Bolt and Hydrokinesis, I feel like it's still just still way too strong. What I'm suggesting is a happy medium. Hacking, after all, is a skill that takes a lot of time to get a decent % for. You don't want your hackers to be useless just because a level 1 Master Psychic took Telemechanics without even knowing what a mouse is.

It does not make operators obsolete as while it allows you to diagnose problems really easy knowing how to fix them and what tools to use is a different thing. That said you get things like psi mechanics who pretty much use psionics to duplicate a lot of what operators do and many operators themselves actually have telemechanics as well. It is a hugely useful tool and a great augmenter for those who have some basic hands on knowledge.


Psionics overall is probably the part of Rifts that could use the most love. The powers are okay in a normal SDC world but in rifts most are nearly useless with a few really head scratchers like mind bolt and a few powers that are just pretty darn amazing like bio manipulation. Some powers like astral projection and machine ghost are just so dependent on your GM they either waffle from super OP to far to dangerous to bother using.

not to mention doesn't the rules say that a percentage of operators have telemechanics

[Tor]

If you want to have a cyberspace like encounter (like being jacked in shadowrun) look at the power of Machine Ghost.

Which reminds me, all the cyber-combat rules in the Rifter were canon weren't they?

Including the CS Digital Reaper and Cybermancer OCCs I figure.

[kaid]

Even with that considered, I still think Telemechanics would be too strong if it gave you instant easy access. Even if it didn't give you all the passwords, it still makes operators almost obsolete. When I consider the fact that it's supposed to be in the same psionic category as Mind Bolt and Hydrokinesis, I feel like it's still just still way too strong. What I'm suggesting is a happy medium. Hacking, after all, is a skill that takes a lot of time to get a decent % for. You don't want your hackers to be useless just because a level 1 Master Psychic took Telemechanics without even knowing what a mouse is.

It does not make operators obsolete as while it allows you to diagnose problems really easy knowing how to fix them and what tools to use is a different thing. That said you get things like psi mechanics who pretty much use psionics to duplicate a lot of what operators do and many operators themselves actually have telemechanics as well. It is a hugely useful tool and a great augmenter for those who have some basic hands on knowledge.


Psionics overall is probably the part of Rifts that could use the most love. The powers are okay in a normal SDC world but in rifts most are nearly useless with a few really head scratchers like mind bolt and a few powers that are just pretty darn amazing like bio manipulation. Some powers like astral projection and machine ghost are just so dependent on your GM they either waffle from super OP to far to dangerous to bother using.

not to mention doesn't the rules say that a percentage of operators have telemechanics

Yup normal operators and many of their variants have a good chance to get this ability. Operators, psi tech, robot controllers all can get this ability and there are even some other operator type variants that also have access to it.

In any engineering bay/garage of any reasonable size on rifts earth chances are somebody there has this skill. It is probably one of the most common of the super psychic abilities due to all the weird random tech support classes that either start with it or have a sizable chance to get it.

[Zer0 Kay]

Even with that considered, I still think Telemechanics would be too strong if it gave you instant easy access. Even if it didn't give you all the passwords, it still makes operators almost obsolete. When I consider the fact that it's supposed to be in the same psionic category as Mind Bolt and Hydrokinesis, I feel like it's still just still way too strong. What I'm suggesting is a happy medium. Hacking, after all, is a skill that takes a lot of time to get a decent % for. You don't want your hackers to be useless just because a level 1 Master Psychic took Telemechanics without even knowing what a mouse is.

It does not make operators obsolete as while it allows you to diagnose problems really easy knowing how to fix them and what tools to use is a different thing. That said you get things like psi mechanics who pretty much use psionics to duplicate a lot of what operators do and many operators themselves actually have telemechanics as well. It is a hugely useful tool and a great augmenter for those who have some basic hands on knowledge.
So essentially it would be uncommon for a tech to NOT actually be talking to the machine.

"You sure he can fix it? He's using all those computers and stuff and keeps swapping parts... Heck he doesn't even talk to the machine while he's working on it."

Psionics overall is probably the part of Rifts that could use the most love. The powers are okay in a normal SDC world but in rifts most are nearly useless with a few really head scratchers like mind bolt and a few powers that are just pretty darn amazing like bio manipulation. Some powers like astral projection and machine ghost are just so dependent on your GM they either waffle from super OP to far to dangerous to bother using.

not to mention doesn't the rules say that a percentage of operators have telemechanics

Yup normal operators and many of their variants have a good chance to get this ability. Operators, psi tech, robot controllers all can get this ability and there are even some other operator type variants that also have access to it.

In any engineering bay/garage of any reasonable size on rifts earth chances are somebody there has this skill. It is probably one of the most common of the super psychic abilities due to all the weird random tech support classes that either start with it or have a sizable chance to get it.

[Killer Cyborg]

From what I can tell, Machine Ghost is an offensive action, where Telemechanics is strictly educational. I wouldn't let someone bypass a firewall with Telemechanics, but I would with Machine Ghost. MG is also more expensive, which tells me that more power is pumped in. Machine Ghost is like making yourself a virus, Telemechanics is like a sensitive version of Electrokinesis.
My group added a house rule that if you have both telemechanics and machine ghost, you can change information (but not reprogram the computer) when you use Machine Ghost. If you have Telemechanic Possession and Machine Ghost, you can add your own programs to the computer (booby-trap something, create your own firewall, summon an antivirus to protect you, etc), but at a PPE cost per attempt.

[Edit]
Here are the rules we came up with:
Telemechanics MG bonus: rewrite neutral data (may activate an antivirus if the information is overwrite protected)
Telemechanic Mental Operation MG bonus: Temporary possession, used similarly to Mentally Possess Others, but with halved duration and only works on programs (not other users). Can also be used to booby trap something to attempt one action of your choosing when activated (trap lasts for 30 minutes/level, action lasts for three seconds, can even be used on active programs to control a single action).
Telemechanic Paralyzation MG bonus: Create a firewall with a natural AR of 15+psychic's level and 1 MDC. Loses 1 AR for every attack deflected. Loses 1 AR every hour it lasts (unless it's on an unsecured or your personal network.). If a physical action is blocked (like starting a computer controlled car) then each attempt at the job is considered a 2d6 hit, 1 MDC attack.
Telemechanic Possession: Possess a program to do your bidding. This is powerful and is used similarly to Mentally Possess Others, but still allows total control over your own body. This can affect any type of program (although larger programs will have protection and higher resistance to possession). 1/2 cost.

The PPE cost, duration and roll requirements for these effects are the same as their originals unless mentioned otherwise (so Machine Ghost: Telemechanic Paralyzation would cost 20 PPE).

By combining Machine Ghost and Telemechanic Possession, this would allow you to control a machine that would normally be out of your range (like through a network).

We also included some of these effects if you have certain hacking skills, but I don't have the rules on hand at the moment.

You might want to reread Telemechanics, a firewall isn't going to do anything to keep someone out using telemechanics because among other things the power gives them complete knowledge of all access codes so bypassing that kind of security would be a breeze.

Up to the 80% skill equivalent listed.

[Killer Cyborg]

It says you understand everything about the machine's (various things) and access codes. To me, that meant you understood what the access codes were made of (a required card, a specific set of 10 numbers, etc), but doesn't tell you what those access codes are.

Interesting take on the wording.

Telemechanics doesn't just apply to computers, but to all machines, even something as simple as a bicycle.

Or, technically, something as simple as an inclined plane.

[CigarSmoker]

For the most part when players use Telemechanics in one of my games they don't really understand the scope of the psychic ability, and just HOW much you can do with the psychic ability.

For instance:
You can connect to any computer.
If that computer is connected to the internet or a network they can use that connection to access any of those other computers.
In essence giving the character access to any information in the world.

Think about that.

Being able to access Wikipedia just by touching your cellphone.
Need money? Just 'hack' your bank and move what you need to your account.
Someone hurt? Find medical knowledge of any injury the group could be effected by and what the treatment should be.
ANY information you need at your fingertips. AND in Rifts a headjack with communication ability won't screw up your psychic powers. That gives you a RANGED ability to connect to any machine the headjack could connect to.

Because that is what Telemechanics as written can do: Communicate telepathically with the machine. If that machine can communicate with another machine using Telemechanics would allow you to communicate as well.

It's a little min-max-ing there, but as written it IS possible.

As to how all of this is presented to the player is up to the GM, it could be a "You connect and you get X info" or it could be a full on shadowrun-esque virtual romp through the machines. That's the nice thing about this: There are an infinite number of ways to present it, once it's decided that it CAN be done.

[Shark_Force]

ok, first off, just because a machine has the ability to make a connection, doesn't mean it *is* connected. if you have a headjack, that doesn't mean that you're isntantly connected to every machine in existence just because you used telemechanics on it.

secondly, nothing in the telemechanics power indicates that you're able to connect through other machines in the first place.

thirdly, telemechanics doesn't give you any supernatural control over anything. it gives you the ability to communicate with something you're using it on, so you could (for example) hack a device without needing any sort of keyboard, mouse, or other interface device. and, as an added bonus, it gives you a very impressive skill level in using, repairing, or modifying the device, which for computers i would consider to include hacking skill (and as an additional added minor benefit, you don't need to be literate in the appropriate language to use the computer in this way). but while using telemechanics on a computer would give you the ability to hack with the computer for the duration, it won't give you the benefits of telemechanics with other devices the computer is connected to (so you won't know access codes, or what defences they have, etc). and of course, hacking will take just as long for you as it would for most other people.

so you could hack an atm to allow you to have maintenance access (there has to be some way to open it up and add or remove cash/etc from the machine, and telemechanics will tell you what that way is with 88% accuracy), and then physically remove cash inside, if there were atms in the setting (i'm inclined to believe that in rifts, there are not). you'd need to be in range of the atm for telemechanics, and you'd need to phsyically remove the cash yourself, and that is still pretty danged awesome. but you can't just hack into the bank to transfer money to your own account unless you have access to the bank's servers. and of course, you'd need to have the power active for long enough; if a given hack takes 2 hours, you're going to need to have telemechanics

don't get me wrong, telemechanics is an awesome power for utility. it gives you extremely high skill levels in using almost any percentage-based skill with a specific device, and that is incredible, especially in skill-starved classes (mind melters in particular can really benefit, considering their very low number of skills).

[CigarSmoker]

Why wouldn't you be able to continue to use telemechanics on a system connected to the one you originally connected to?
The power allows you to access and use any hardware in the system you've connected to, if that system has some sort of external connection to other servers and computers there is no reason, as listed in the power, why you can't use that connection.
Even if you as the GM said you need to pay for telemechanics again to access a second system, that still allows you to connect to anything anywhere pretty much at any time.
In the modern world sure that could be hundreds of different servers, but in the time of Rifts Earth it seems like there is a more centralized computer system for governments and banking and such. Much easier to deal with, even if you add in defense programs of the normal and psychic variety to defend systems.

What it really comes down to is how much power you or your GM wants in the game. I'm fine with my players having access to huge amounts of information: it gives them one more way to deal with problems in the game.

[Shark_Force]

the power has a range. you can use it on stuff you're touching, and stuff within 5 feet of you. it has no target listed, so it's a bit vague, but as far as i can tell it gives you an ability to communicate with stuff, rather than giving stuff an ability to communicate with you, btw... so there's no need to pay for a second use while the first is active.

but that's beside the point.

"it doesn't say you can't" is a classic example of the worst way to read any manual. the rules don't say your ordinary human vagabond *can't* fire nukes out of his butt. they don't say that you *can't* defy gravity on a whim. in fact, the rules don't say you *can't* do a lot of things, because trying to list all of the stuff you can't do would take up thousands of pages for every single thing, and would have to be constantly updated every time someone thinks up something else that anything in existence can't do.

instead, because it is the only sane way to write rules for anything, the rules are permissive. they tell you what you can do, and generally only specify what you can't do when there is some indication that you can do stuff similar to those things; for example, the fly spell tells you what materials you can use, and then specifies that you can't use even tiny portions of other materials because otherwise you might not consider a wooden frame with nails holding it together to have iron in it.

you can use telemechanics on a computer (or rather, use it on yourself to understand a computer). you can also use it to understand other things within 5 feet of you. you can even use that computer to influence other devices, provided they would normally be a device that the computer can influence, because you have gained the ability to use said computer. but you don't gain the access codes for another computer that is attached to the same internet but on the other side of the planet, or any knowledge about what hardware or software it is running, apart from what anyone else could get if they were to manipulate that distant computer using hacking techniques.

it is *still* an absurdly good power as is. 88% in any skill at level 1 is ludicrous. for many highly technical skills, including hacking, you're lucky to have 30% in them at level 1, and 40% is supposed to be an expertly trained (but inexperienced) person. never mind all the other skills you can use at 88%.

seriously, there are classes completely dedicated to using devices that can only *dream* of having 88% in the skill. the coalition SAMAS pilot, an "Elite Robot & Power Armour Pilot" trained by the most powerful nation in north america, has 71% skill at level 1. they will reach 88% at level *7* (or rather, slightly surpass it, at 89%). with 0 seconds of training, you can pilot a vehicle as well as a level 7 OCC that is an elite specialist in piloting a vehicle.

the power is good enough. frankly, it's actually quite amazing. it certainly doesn't need an arbitrary range increase to anywhere in the megaverse so long as there is some means of communication theoretically possible, and there is absolutely no indication anywhere in the description that it does get any such thing.

[CigarSmoker]

As I said, it's all up to your GM as to how he or she interprets how the power works within the description given. I tend to go a little more overboard because my games tend to be harsh and a bit brutal, the players sometimes need that edge.

I do agree, it *IS* an amazing power and when I play an Operator I really go out of my way to take Telemechanics just because it is so useful.

In fact my favorite game I played an Operator who happened upon some Robotech Varitech fighters. Made a mint selling schematics to Triax Industries after using telemechanics to learn all the ins and outs of the mecha. =D
Good times, yeah, good times.

[Bill]

In my opinion, the post-apocalyptic world of Rifts definitely hasn't got a global internet available for Machine Ghosts and Telemechanicists to fully exploit. That's not a bad thing in that you won't need to come up with reasons why your super-hacker is tripping around the hellscape with a bunch of gun-toting psychotics. They've got to keep moving or risk getting identified in realspace.

I also think these are common enough powers that any government, corporate entity, mercenary corps, or covert operation worth mentioning is going to have loyal agents with the same powers guarding their systems. If anything, that open up a lot of territory for story involving the alternate universe of each city-state's network, the local celebrities, and even those few who's legends have managed to spread outside of the continental boundaries.

However, just like in Shadowrun and Cyberpunk, they also can leave the rest of the group waiting for the decker to finish his dive. It won't be a problem if you're really skilled at splitting scenes or delegating NPCs to keep the rest of the group engaged.

[Tor]

I don't see how being able to mentally communicate with a computer means you will know what password to give it to hack a bank account.

[Bill]

Telemechanics specifies that the psychic is able to tap any information stored in an artificially intellgent machine and knows literally everything about any non-intelligent machine he or she uses the power on. It's how the power is written.

Sounds like a good reason to switch back to pen and paper book-keeping to me

[Shark_Force]

bearing in mind that you have to be within 5 feet of the machine where the bank account password is kept.

so yeah, scary, but i would expect most banks are pretty good at keeping people further away than that.

[Killer Cyborg]

Telemechanics specifies that the psychic is able to tap any information stored in an artificially intellgent machine and knows literally everything about any non-intelligent machine he or she uses the power on. It's how the power is written.

Sounds like a good reason to switch back to pen and paper book-keeping to me

Not Literally.
Just the 80% mentioned.

[Bill]

Would you equate that to a 20% chance that the telemechanicist won't be able to find the one piece of information he or she is actually looking for?

[Killer Cyborg]

Would you equate that to a 20% chance that the telemechanicist won't be able to find the one piece of information he or she is actually looking for?

Pretty much, yes.

[Mlp7029]

It says you understand everything about the machine's (various things) and access codes. To me, that meant you understood what the access codes were made of (a required card, a specific set of 10 numbers, etc), but doesn't tell you what those access codes are. Telemechanics doesn't just apply to computers, but to all machines, even something as simple as a bicycle. Because it's so versatile, it makes sense to me to keep the power of this skill to a manageable minimum (like the difference between Telekinesis and Telekinetic Acceleration). You also don't want Machine Ghost to be completely useless, considering it's more expensive and comes with a risk factor.

In the Rifts novel a Technowizard uses his Telemechanics ability to obtain the access code for a CS Sky-cycle. Kevin edited the novel so I have always considered the info in approved by Kevin.

[eliakon]

It says you understand everything about the machine's (various things) and access codes. To me, that meant you understood what the access codes were made of (a required card, a specific set of 10 numbers, etc), but doesn't tell you what those access codes are. Telemechanics doesn't just apply to computers, but to all machines, even something as simple as a bicycle. Because it's so versatile, it makes sense to me to keep the power of this skill to a manageable minimum (like the difference between Telekinesis and Telekinetic Acceleration). You also don't want Machine Ghost to be completely useless, considering it's more expensive and comes with a risk factor.

In the Rifts novel a Technowizard uses his Telemechanics ability to obtain the access code for a CS Sky-cycle. Kevin edited the novel so I have always considered the info in approved by Kevin.

I am pretty sure that the novels are not considered 'canon'. But I would still allow that use, they used the power on an object, and rolled under 80%....