No Bioinics or Cybernetics in Northern Gun 2?

[Jorel]

It was brought to my attention that the Insider Offer for Northern Gun 2 does not have the NG bionics, cybernetic services and other equipment listed in the Table of Contents. Does this mean it was left out? Here is the description of NG-2 from the press release back in October 2013 not too long after the Insider Offer for NG-2 finished...

NG robot haulers and drones.
NG power armor suits; an expansive range.
NG M.D.C. body armor, and combat gear.
NG bionics, cybernetic services and other equipment.
NG hovercycles, land vehicles and combat vehicles.
NG jet packs and aircraft.
NG boats, ships and submarines.
NG Robot Gladiatorial Arena.
Robot Gladiator O.C.C. and robot gladiators.
Pirates and more.
Written by Matthew Clements and Kevin Siembieda.
Interior artwork by Chuck Walton, Nick Bradshaw, and others.
Wraparound cover by John Zeleznik.

I know I was looking forward to more bionic options. Also it seams like a bit of false advertising if we funded a book that was supposed to have those things in it and the final product does not. I'm still looking forward to this book, but my excitement is kinda tarnished like it was when I found out there were no CosmoKnights in Heroes of the Megaverse as had also been promised. I know we get butt loads of PA, but we already have a ton of those before the NG books. Now I am hoping we see those missing NG bionics, cybernetic services and other equipment in another supplement down the line.

[The Galactus Kid]

All the more reason to push for the release of the Sovietski book.

[kaid]

I am not to surprised something was going to have to get pared down or cut so not to surprised it was the cybernetics. It may wind up being like the triax 2 stuff where the cybernetics winds up in the next rifter or two. Honestly given they originally were only going to make NG2 160 pages if they had any chance to make that size would have been to have basically the already existing stuff and one or two extras in each category which I don't think would have made anybody very happy.

[Jorel]

Do we really need 30 different PA but no cybernetics? It was advertised to the Insiders that the info would be in the books we backed. That is another issue I see here.

[Cybermancer]

All the more reason to push for the release of the Sovietski book.

I'd accuse you of making a shameless plug if I thought you could feel shame over the matter.

[Jorel]

I'm curious what got cut, and why it would end up in a book about a location on the other side of the world...

[The Galactus Kid]

I'm curious what got cut, and why it would end up in a book about a location on the other side of the world...

I wrote new cybernetics and bionics for Sovietski. These are unrelated to NG, but it could sate your thirst for cybernetics/bionics.

[Jorel]

So...there is even more. I like it. I still want to know where/what the NG counterparts are. I hope they make it into a Rifter as I already have a couple years paid up on subscriptions.

[kaid]

It would have been nice to have a few more of the prebuilt NG cyborg chasis like the ones from new west but oh well. It is possible that the cybernetic stuff that had been written just was not as good as the stuff that replaced it in the book. I won't gripe to much though given the book is about 50% bigger than what we signed up for as well.

I will be curious to see if the info shows up in whatever book premier was talking about the flying vehicle that is in the hover train picture potentially winding up in which I am sort of guessing it is whatever that heroes of humanity book that sounds like it takes place in and around the minion war on rifts earth.

[Jorel]

I'm more curious about why it was advertised and then cut. I doubt it was sub par.

[kaid]

I'm more curious about why it was advertised and then cut. I doubt it was sub par.

Hard to say but the bionics stuff in triax 2 also got cut even though that was listed for it as well all along and wound up in a rifter.

[Jorel]

maybe we'll get a similar treatment with this in the Rifter.

[The Galactus Kid]

I'm more curious about why it was advertised and then cut. I doubt it was sub par.

Hard to say but the bionics stuff in triax 2 also got cut even though that was listed for it as well all along and wound up in a rifter.

Other than the new cybernetic vehicle interface of the Lutwaffe which is kind of a big deal.

[Jorel]

somebody thinks they are kind of a big deal...don't they

[kaid]

I'm more curious about why it was advertised and then cut. I doubt it was sub par.

Hard to say but the bionics stuff in triax 2 also got cut even though that was listed for it as well all along and wound up in a rifter.

Other than the new cybernetic vehicle interface of the Lutwaffe which is kind of a big deal.

You are correct I always lump that in more with the vehicles than bionics because it is pretty much one bionic item and a bunch of vehicles that make use of it.

But all the other borg chasis that are even talked about here and there in the book wound up in the rifter. I would not be shocked at all if we wind up seeing some cutting room floor official NG stuff showing up in the next few rifters.

[Jorel]

I'm hoping so. Hence my bring up the topic. I know I'd buy Northern Gun-3 if it had 10 different chasis and some new and improved upon options. It would have been nice in NG-2 but I guess the PA and the Robodome took up all that space. Shame as the borgs would be fun matches to watch and play as well.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Pretty much a non question. "Where is it?" It's on the cutting room floor. Book got too big. NG is known for it's bots, PA and Vehicles. So they got top billing. "OMG!?!?!" naa. Space constraints. Not for nothing but there's a complete book on Bionics already out. Cleverly titled "Rifts Bionics". I'm not saying new ones wouldn't have been good. Just sayin'.

As others have pointed out, we may see them in a rifter or something. Or maybe not. Might be that when they went to work on the bionics, there just wasn't really enough to make a fuss over. If it was like 4 things... that's an easy cut, and not really enough for an article.

[Jorel]

I'd like to see them and I don't don't want the same old in the Bionics Sourcebook. I want fresh new bionic options.

[kaid]

A kingsdale book could be interesting one that really just focuses on kingsdale and augmented humans via bionics/juicers/crazies what not.

[Jorel]

good suggestion

[The Galactus Kid]

All the more reason to push for the release of the Sovietski book.

I'd accuse you of making a shameless plug if I thought you could feel shame over the matter.

It's like you know me.

[Jorel]

So...this was posted on the facebook. Guess we know what happened...

Some of the early descriptions of content had mentioned new NG bionics, but that was my mistake. Matt hadn't written new bionics. -- Kevin Siembieda

[DhAkael]

Cool (well NOT cool but cool) that Kevin finally came out and set the record straight.
The material was never even written *nod* fair 'nuff.

[The Galactus Kid]

So...this was posted on the facebook. Guess we know what happened...

Some of the early descriptions of content had mentioned new NG bionics, but that was my mistake. Matt hadn't written new bionics. -- Kevin Siembieda

Yeah, it may have been something that was discussed in early brainstorming sessions or something between the two that just never came about organically during the writing process. It happens more often than some would realize.

[Jorel]

I don't think Bots or PA have ever been sorely lacking in NA. Maybe not the most recent of books, but there are tons of options for PA and bots in almost all the books that cover NA. Free Quebec and CWC have plenty of options. Bionics on the otherhand has been limited to mostly what was out from the start with the odd TW or foreign non NA designs added in. If anything We haven't seen Bionics in newer books, but we still see plenty of PA and Bots in all the newest books like Black Market and almost any book I can think of.

[DhAkael]

i was referring to independent models. Yes there has been Coalition and Free Quebec but most of there models are not available on the open market. Northern Gun has always been represented as the largest tech company in North America but only had a hand full of 'Bots and PA available. It was frustrating to create a PA pilot and your choices were the Samson, Triax predator, Sidewinder or Utra-Max. Hell there were more type of juicers then there were open market PA.

"Wot 'e sed!"

[calto40k]

i was referring to independent models. Yes there has been Coalition and Free Quebec but most of there models are not available on the open market. Northern Gun has always been represented as the largest tech company in North America but only had a hand full of 'Bots and PA available. It was frustrating to create a PA pilot and your choices were the Samson, Triax predator, Sidewinder or Utra-Max. Hell there were more type of juicers then there were open market PA.

"Wot 'e sed!"

Agreed, but one of my main reasons for backing book two as a Steel Plus Insider besides the PA was the new bionics.

[Jorel]

It does come off a bit as false advertising, but it is what it is and I'm sure we will both be happy with the end results.

[calto40k]

Most likely... going to have to wait for Sovietski for some awesome bionics

[kaid]

I don't think Bots or PA have ever been sorely lacking in NA. Maybe not the most recent of books, but there are tons of options for PA and bots in almost all the books that cover NA. Free Quebec and CWC have plenty of options. Bionics on the otherhand has been limited to mostly what was out from the start with the odd TW or foreign non NA designs added in. If anything We haven't seen Bionics in newer books, but we still see plenty of PA and Bots in all the newest books like Black Market and almost any book I can think of.

Its not so much that their was a lack of power armor but there was a lack of power armor that made any sense for players to actually own who were not playing deserters from one of the major military forces in the game world.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I've found that many people here on the forums tend to greatly ignore that aspect of it. And the aspect that if you are found in possession of, and or using said pilfered weapons and armor, that those that it's been stolen from, and who have literal armies of millions, tend to take instant and violent retribution. There is something to be said about a military of millions, willing to kill you if you're caught using their gear.

[kaid]

I've found that many people here on the forums tend to greatly ignore that aspect of it. And the aspect that if you are found in possession of, and or using said pilfered weapons and armor, that those that it's been stolen from, and who have literal armies of millions, tend to take instant and violent retribution. There is something to be said about a military of millions, willing to kill you if you're caught using their gear.

It is not even just how dangerous the possession is. Just acquiring it in the first place is hard. Now older style samas fell off the back of trucks enough when they were phasing them out to be at least somewhat available on the black market but unless they are a deserter the only way you are getting most of the CS power armors or NGR military power armors is by acquiring them in combat so right off the bat baring somehow disabling them via some other method likely means you are faced with immediate large repair costs just to render it functional again.

The newer triax and newer CS models simply have not been out that long and they are tightly guarded military secrets. The amount of these that would find their ways to players in any sort of usable form is going to be tiny and probably super expensive due to the quality.

Now if GM's just ignore all of this then yes there would be no reason not to get front line CS or triax units because they ARE more advanced and in general are and should be better. But hand waving all that ignores one of the reason the northern gun is such a huge manufacturer/power in north america because it is because the CS is so militant about protecting their armor that people turned to the northern gun for their tech needs.

Some will say well just go to the black market and buy stuff there but the problem when dealing with criminals is well they are criminal and those deals by their very nature entail a lot more extra layers of risk/danger than dealing with a reputable company like the northern gun does.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I fully agree. And our groups play that sort of thing out.

Sadly there's a segment, seemingly a large one, though I have absolutely no way to say, other than it seems to come up often here, that only look at stats. Gun with the biggest numbers is the one they use and everyone else is an idiot if they don't. Bot with the biggest numbers, are the one's they use and if you don't you're using crap.

In RPG's there's always ways to 'explain' having the absolute best of everything. I'm an RPer. if I -wanted- to, I could justify anything. I mean.. Anything. Granted some of the justifications might be absurd and or silly, but I could do it. Someone gets too froggy and I could justify standing at the helm of the SDF1 as the main cannon discharged in their direction. I could do it in a paragraph if I -had- to.

I just make the decision not to be 'that guy', and try (Sometimes even I fail. I'm not claiming perfection) But I try and play in the spirit of the game and with in the 'world' that the game is set.

That means that yeah you could get CS gear off the black market, but it's 'price' is far far more than just the Credits you tab over to the black market seller and that cost ----will---- be paid. Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow, but someday. Ya know? That in mind, my characters shy away from it. They flat out dodge Naurni stuff as if it has the plague.

Our groups have always liked/preferred NG stuff, and have for decades. It helps alot that for the last 11 years I've lived in the heart of NG. lol. Even before that though, NG had the "Home town team" Feel for us. The old "Made in America, by Americans!" or "US TOUGH" type. Which, not for nothing is exactly what they go for.

Now that we have one, almost two books on NG with even more NG gear and that's going to be solidified even more.

[Razzinold]

I fully agree. And our groups play that sort of thing out.

Sadly there's a segment, seemingly a large one, though I have absolutely no way to say, other than it seems to come up often here, that only look at stats. Gun with the biggest numbers is the one they use and everyone else is an idiot if they don't. Bot with the biggest numbers, are the one's they use and if you don't you're using crap.

In RPG's there's always ways to 'explain' having the absolute best of everything. I'm an RPer. if I -wanted- to, I could justify anything. I mean.. Anything. Granted some of the justifications might be absurd and or silly, but I could do it. Someone gets too froggy and I could justify standing at the helm of the SDF1 as the main cannon discharged in their direction. I could do it in a paragraph if I -had- to.

I just make the decision not to be 'that guy', and try (Sometimes even I fail. I'm not claiming perfection) But I try and play in the spirit of the game and with in the 'world' that the game is set.

That means that yeah you could get CS gear off the black market, but it's 'price' is far far more than just the Credits you tab over to the black market seller and that cost ----will---- be paid. Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow, but someday. Ya know? That in mind, my characters shy away from it. They flat out dodge Naurni stuff as if it has the plague.

Our groups have always liked/preferred NG stuff, and have for decades. It helps alot that for the last 11 years I've lived in the heart of NG. lol. Even before that though, NG had the "Home town team" Feel for us. The old "Made in America, by Americans!" or "US TOUGH" type. Which, not for nothing is exactly what they go for.

Now that we have one, almost two books on NG with even more NG gear and that's going to be solidified even more.

Same with my group, we also feel that way about the weapons from New West I mean who doesn't love a good western?
I have always liked the classic look of revolvers, sure they don't hold as many bullets as a pistol, possible shorter range but to me they just have that "coolness factor" to them. Dirty Harry's .44 Magnum, Charles Bronson in Death Wish 4, any of the "Man with no name" westerns that Clint was in.

I'm not saying that pistols don't look cool or bad@#$, I just like revolvers more. I mostly take Big Bore weapons and the laser pistols and rifles that look like the western replicas. I find some of the weapons are to "space age alien looking" for my taste.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Not only that, but -in game- the people that produce weapons have noticed that. Some of the manufacturers have different 'lines' of weapons. Some look sleek and plasticy for those that like them. Some are solid and tough (like NG) some are Steam punk. Some are western or pirate looking. The insides are basicly the same but even 'On Rifts earth" they cater to that proclivity now.

Sadly Northern Gun suffers a little in this. Over the decades we'd get a few NG guns in one book and a few in another and a few in another. Not trying to hurt any one's feelings but about half of the weapon illustrations for NG stuff looks like it was drawn by someone's little brother on notebook paper or the back of a pizza hut napkin. I've brought this up before so I won't go into detail, but some of the weapons that have made the book, have bent barrels on them, they're drawn so bad. Literal barrels that are drooping as if they got wet or melted or something. Others are just clunky and ugly and what not. Which isn't universal. Some of the newer stuff looks amazing and even some that don't look amazing look functional. Then... we get stuff like the sketchy tube on page 197 of NG1. I mean really? I could free hand draw it better in about.. 15 seconds, than what was --PUBLISHED-- in the book. Or the absurd and fugly "Scatter" ones on page 200. I mean come on. Someone approved those to be in the book? Looking like that?? Then you turn the page to 201 and see really nice depicted weapons. *Shakes head* Ugg.
So yeah, NG has been hindered by a dozen artists, some of which should never even be jokingly allowed to illustrate weapons. That are on pages right beside some amazing art.

[BuzzardB]

Not only that, but -in game- the people that produce weapons have noticed that. Some of the manufacturers have different 'lines' of weapons. Some look sleek and plasticy for those that like them. Some are solid and tough (like NG) some are Steam punk. Some are western or pirate looking. The insides are basicly the same but even 'On Rifts earth" they cater to that proclivity now.

Sadly Northern Gun suffers a little in this. Over the decades we'd get a few NG guns in one book and a few in another and a few in another. Not trying to hurt any one's feelings but about half of the weapon illustrations for NG stuff looks like it was drawn by someone's little brother on notebook paper or the back of a pizza hut napkin. I've brought this up before so I won't go into detail, but some of the weapons that have made the book, have bent barrels on them, they're drawn so bad. Literal barrels that are drooping as if they got wet or melted or something. Others are just clunky and ugly and what not. Which isn't universal. Some of the newer stuff looks amazing and even some that don't look amazing look functional. Then... we get stuff like the sketchy tube on page 197 of NG1. I mean really? I could free hand draw it better in about.. 15 seconds, than what was --PUBLISHED-- in the book. Or the absurd and fugly "Scatter" ones on page 200. I mean come on. Someone approved those to be in the book? Looking like that?? Then you turn the page to 201 and see really nice depicted weapons. *Shakes head* Ugg.
So yeah, NG has been hindered by a dozen artists, some of which should never even be jokingly allowed to illustrate weapons. That are on pages right beside some amazing art.

Yeah the weapons section is such a hodge podge of different artists, some consistency would have been nice. Not the end of the world, however. That being said I would hate to have to be an artist in the same book as Chuck...man some of his art in the book is inspiring.


As for no bionics in the book, I never knew they were originally supposed to be in there so I am not disappointed by that, but having thought about it a bit it would be nice to see some new ones hit the open, or black, market.

[kaid]

Sadly there's a segment, seemingly a large one, though I have absolutely no way to say, other than it seems to come up often here, that only look at stats. Gun with the biggest numbers is the one they use and everyone else is an idiot if they don't. Bot with the biggest numbers, are the one's they use and if you don't you're using crap.

Even though I argued in another thread that I don't think NG1's #'s stack up against other existing bots, I think you've made a good point here.

For example, my LLW carries only two weapons: a Wilks Remi-130 pistol and a TW Shock Pistol. Both only do 2D6 MD. He's had many opportunities to acquire more powerful weapons so why carry only these? Because he likes the styling of them.

Many people seem to think you have to carry around the most powerful gun possible.

In the campaigns I was in the few outlier weapons with really high damage were still available but were considered really hot commodities that most frontier stores could not keep in stock. To get them you had to go to a major city/store and buy them direct. This ment people often just kept using their weapons they had or could scrounge.

As for bots the top end NG bots like the viking and blocker are on par or better than all the CS bots except one armor wise and in much better equipped weapon wise. The one CS bot that has more armor than the viking also is less than 10 years old and has only been seen by the public for the last few years. Even if you could find one on the black market you would be looking at paying 5-6 times more for a bot that is marginally better than a blocker or a viking and comes standard with a death sentence from the CS if any of their forces see you with it.

[Jorel]

Good to know. Thanks.

[kaid]

HAHA yes I noticed those on the very last page of the book so it does actually have some NG bionics. Was reading this after work last night and managed to get through the power armor section. Holy smokes there are a lot of different power armors available.

[Jorel]

Hopin I get my copy today. Or the pdf. I'd be happy with either.

[azazel1024]

Anyone have any ideas when the PDF might be coming for Insiders? I haven't heard Kevin mention that yet. I'd assume sometime mid June based on when the dead tree shipped, but I am of course hoping for sooner.

I ask in part because I need to keep an eye out for it. NG1 went straight to my spam box even though I had PB's email safe listed (and the news letter gets through fine). I safe listed the address that Wayne sent it out from specifically after that (Lemuria went through fine, interestingly, though maybe different email addresses?)...but I want to keep a close eye on my inbox and spam folders when it is going out to insiders.

[Pepsi Jedi]

They said in the last press release that the PDF would be going out this week.

To quote as per may 15th:

"Softcover available now. The special Megaverse Insider hardcover editions will ship around June 10. Insider PDFs should start shipping next week."

The "Insider PDFs should start shipping next week" was even bolded.

[Jorel]

They are running low on time to get it out this week.

[azazel1024]

Thanks guys!

I had stayed away from the forums as much as I possibly could until I got the NG2 insider PDF because with NG1...well it got to be too much for me with all of the copious delays and waiting. At least based on the weekly updates, it does seem like NG2 wasn't nearly as badly delayed (after NG1. Its still almost 2 years late, but I think after NG1 it was only promised around the end of March time frame, so mid May is actually pretty good considering).

Maybe once I get it I can both read and enjoy it and also civily participate on the forums again.

[Pepsi Jedi]

As per today's mailing:

"Megaverse Insider supporters will start getting their PDF over the weekend. Hopefully as soon as Friday afternoon"

[Jorel]

fingers crossed I get mine tomorrow though I already had someone send me a shot of Ripper.

[Icefalcon]

I had stayed away from the forums as much as I possibly could until I got the NG2 insider PDF because with NG1...well it got to be too much for me with all of the copious delays and waiting.

You are not the only one staying away while we wait for NG2. I have posted very little over the last six months because of all the vitriol. Now that NG2 should be on its way to my door soon (only got the hardcover myself), I will be able to look them both over and give an honest review.