Wizards and towers...My thoughts on the matter

pblackcrow · Unread post by **pblackcrow** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:14 pm

Why do wizards build them? Well, the answer is simple...To harness the energy from ley lines and nexuses. Function is rather like a True Atlantian pyramid, with a few exceptions...Tower can not teleport in the world or multidimensionally. No teleporting to other towers. No opening dimensional gateways. However, people can be gated from the tower but is limited to 25 miles if it is constructed on a ley line, at a 2-4 ley line nexus you can teleport for 50 miles, 5-7 = 75, 8-10 = 100, etc. You can communicate with other towers as long as they are siting on the same ley line as you. And a wizard can control the weather for 25 miles if the tower is constructed on a ley line, at a 2-4 ley line nexus 50 miles, 5-7 = 75, 8-10 = 100, etc. The height will determine the amount of energy it can store.

Once a tower is constructed, a wizard more or less rules over an area. So kings are rather leery of granting a building permit to wizard for a tower. However, that has not stopped them from issuing a (What's the term, where a king grants lands to be captured in his name, but governed over by the one who has captured the land?

Not an enfeoffment...Letter of something.)

glitterboy2098 · Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:25 pm

nah... line of sight. most offensive spells require you to be able to see your target. so to have the best defensive location for spell use, you want to have a vantage point that gives you great line of sight with little to block it.. towers work well for this because their height lets you see farther, and puts you above the low lying vegetation, rocks, and hills that could hide enemies from your sight.
plus it makes it tougher for people to spy on you via mundane means.. a plus when a mage might want to hide any magical research they are doing.

Jerell · Unread post by **Jerell** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:03 pm

I like the idea of Wizard Towers on Ley lines and nexuses. I also like the idea it could possibly store some PPE or make channeling/collecting it easy. I feel like it should be able to raise some sort of mystical energy field for protection too.

Then again, now that I'm thinking about stone magic in PFRPG, I find myself wondering if a small floating Lemurian-type city would be cool lost deep in the Old Kingdom Mountains or Northern Wilderness or maybe out to sea near the barrier.

pblackcrow · Unread post by **pblackcrow** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:26 pm

What I would do, if I had the people available to do it, is what Hotrod talks about in: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=138467&hilit=IF+YOU+COULD+LIVE+ANYWHERE#p2691826 , only I would do it in the small forest area northeast of Wisdom. Also, I would also get some earth warlocks involved to actually build my stone tower and other things. But my current GM would regrettably find a way to stop it.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:15 am

pblackcrow wrote:Tower can not teleport in the world or multidimensionally.

K'zaa and Stormspire disagree.

ShadowLogan · Unread post by **ShadowLogan** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:54 am

Tor wrote:
pblackcrow wrote:Tower can not teleport in the world or multidimensionally.
K'zaa and Stormspire disagree.

That was my thought to.

However, K'zaa (Rifts Fed. of Magic, WB#16)'s tower uses circle magic to achieve the effect, where this seems to be intended as a natural design element as one sees with Stone Pyramids.

pblackcrow wrote:To harness the energy from ley lines and nexuses. Function is rather like a True Atlantian pyramid, with a few exceptions...

I thought it was written somewhere that Pyramids are the only shape that can be used to harness the energy.

But there are ways to enchant the tower by use of Wards and Circle magic I would think given that is what K'zaa basically did with his tower. And the Wizard OCC does have access to certain aspects of Circle Magic and Symbols, it isn't as complete as their specialist OCCs, but it could be used as the foundation for following Wizard level instructions to build circles (as seen in the Circles available to them, these likely fall in the lost/legendary category).

Library Ogre · Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:14 am

I wouldn't make towers the equivalent of pyramid magic; it lessens the mystery of pyramid magic, and the effect of that magic being largely gone from Palladium.

However, I do think there are some very simple reasons to do it. It's a defensible structure (single entry point), with multiple, discreet areas for different tasks (a ground floor for cooking and greeting guests, a middle floor for sleeping, apprentices, and a library, and a third floor lab, for example), and, as mentioned, good line of sight when you need it. It also has a lower footprint than a more spread-out building, meaning if you do intend to, say, put a giant protection circle around it, or stick it in the active part of a teleportation circle, then you can do so more easily.

pblackcrow · Unread post by **pblackcrow** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:14 pm

It isn't the equal to a pyramid at all!!! It just shares some of it's powers. Stuff like healing, weather control, extended life, etc. And some of the towers will have more or less floors.

The Dark Elf · Unread post by **The Dark Elf** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:42 pm

Nothing magical about towers in PFRPG more than any other building. All desires are functional, probably those above mainly to due with sieges is my guess. Nothing tying in wizards and towers either really. Plenty more military towers.

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:41 pm

The wizard makes the tower, puts the options in as such. If he builds it on a ley line, he's a smart wizard. If he can close all dimensional travel to and fro, he's an even smarter wizard.

How do you travel to other places? Make a Gate inside the tower that only you can activate and write appropriate circles/wards to allow it interdimensional access through the time/space anchor you've created. The portal should lead to another dimension where there is a mirror gate, and from there you travel around. Just make the exit/entry location secret so only you can find the gate in the other realm. They've been doing this forever.

pblackcrow · Unread post by **pblackcrow** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:55 pm

The Dark Elf wrote:Nothing magical about towers in PFRPG more than any other building. All desires are functional, probably those above mainly to due with sieges is my guess. Nothing tying in wizards and towers either really. Plenty more military towers.

Oh yes there is! What about the legendary wizards tower that has the many rooms and gateways? I forgot where it is. But what about the Tri-Arcanum of the city of Wisdom?

Yes, there are more military towers/keeps, I agree.

drewkitty ~..~ · Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:57 pm

The "important people" in towers? the answer is simple....heat rises.

The Dark Elf · Unread post by **The Dark Elf** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:14 am

pblackcrow wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:Nothing magical about towers in PFRPG more than any other building. All desires are functional, probably those above mainly to due with sieges is my guess. Nothing tying in wizards and towers either really. Plenty more military towers.

Oh yes there is! What about the legendary wizards tower that has the many rooms and gateways? I forgot where it is. But what about the Tri-Arcanum of the city of Wisdom?

Yes, there are more military towers/keeps, I agree.

They are no more mystical than the magic guilds that have houses. And their magical properties are imbued because theyre towers. Theyre placed on them by alchemists. Could be any shape building and often is such as the circle of the scrolls mansion at lake hurst with a few magical defenses.
What exactly are the magical properties of the Tri Arcanums tower then?
I think you mean the Palladium of desires but again its properties arent imbued by its being a tower.

Not trying to pick an argument but towers arent similar to the mystical pyramids. They are just preferred buildings by some for reasosn already discussed.

ShadowLogan · Unread post by **ShadowLogan** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:23 am

pblackcrow wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:Nothing magical about towers in PFRPG more than any other building. All desires are functional, probably those above mainly to due with sieges is my guess. Nothing tying in wizards and towers either really. Plenty more military towers.

Oh yes there is! What about the legendary wizards tower that has the many rooms and gateways? I forgot where it is. But what about the Tri-Arcanum of the city of Wisdom?

Yes, there are more military towers/keeps, I agree.

But are these Towers you are looking at a natural result of them being a tower at a location (such as a Pyramid on a Ley Line/Nexus), or did the Wizard/mage place enchantments on the thing as K'zaa is mentioned to have done in Federation of Magic with his tower? As there is a difference.

There is nothing in the Pyramid texts I've seen that indicates the Stone Masters do anything special with the Pyramid as far as enchanting to get the desired properties, it is a result of the shape and material built on a Ley Line (or nexus) and not anything they add (such as enchantment). That is opposite to what K'zaa (a Lizard Mage) did as his tower had enchantment(s) placed on it (IIRC/IINM one is based on Circle Magic).

Eashamahel · Unread post by **Eashamahel** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:31 am

Mark Hall wrote:However, I do think there are some very simple reasons to do it. It's a defensible structure (single entry point), with multiple, discreet areas for different tasks (a ground floor for cooking and greeting guests, a middle floor for sleeping, apprentices, and a library, and a third floor lab, for example), and, as mentioned, good line of sight when you need it. It also has a lower footprint than a more spread-out building, meaning if you do intend to, say, put a giant protection circle around it, or stick it in the active part of a teleportation circle, then you can do so more easily.

This to me is the reason. You can have constructed spells and PPE channeling and a big hole in the roof to get you closer to the lightning to bring your animated monster back from the dead, but at the end of it a tower is about the easiest fortification to defend for a small group/individual. A few sturdy doors, a few places to drop things out of, lots of room to store food and whatever else you want, a staircase that goes up the wrong way for you to defend yourself when attacking, ect. Combined with the line of sight given to you for the surrounding area and why WOULDN'T you construct a tower, if you only get one building?

pblackcrow · Unread post by **pblackcrow** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:30 pm

I was not saying that...what I WAS saying was that there are magical about towers in PFRPG. And there are things tie-ins between mages and towers. And I agreed with you that there are indeed plenty more military towers.

May not be the same type of magic I am talking about for the goals and purposes of my own game and now others that are liking my idea, but there is at least one magic tower in the game. And a guild tower that again links mages and a tower.

It is an idea!!! Nothing more.

eliakon · Unread post by **eliakon** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:08 pm

There is one magic tower in Palladium (The Palladium of Desires)
The main reason mages live in towers is because Tolkien did it. Oh and 1st ed AD&D gave mages towers. There is no specific compelling reason to have a tower over any other form of dwelling. I think mages will live....where they like....some in towers, some in houses, some in manors, some in castles, or lairs, or caves, or anyplace else they choose. There is no more reason to assume mages live in towers than there is to assume that rangers do, or clerics, or thieves, or anyone else.

<edit> I made a mistake, there are TWO magic towers. There is the magic stone tower in Western Empire....which is an actual enchanted object. (and apparently can be moved despite its enormous size but I digress)

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:48 am

eliakon wrote:The main reason mages live in towers is because Tolkien did it.

Surely the sorcerer in the tower predates Saruman. Looking around there is some (though I can't confirm) 1927 legend from Loomis about a Prophetiae Merlini saying that Merlin was trapped in an invisible tower by Niviane.

glitterboy2098 · Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:40 am

in pretty much all the original sources, Merlin was trapped in a cave by Nimue.. not a tower.

though in most of those, when he starts living with a local lord he's given a tower in the castle to live in, so it might stem from those mid medieval romances.

zyanitevp · Unread post by **zyanitevp** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:08 am

What about the tower in the LOTD... The Citadel is described as a tower at some point, if I recall....

The Dark Elf · Unread post by **The Dark Elf** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:09 am

Sulyuot (typo) the sage has a tower in one of the yin sloth cities. Though iirc it was built in his honour(?).

Levi · Unread post by **Levi** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:19 am

I like the idea of wizard towers being something like a weaker more limited version of pyramid. They should be able to grant the owner/builder/occupants ley line walker like abilities. I see no problem with teleportation between towers connected directly by ley lines. Some minor PPE storage or increased recovery would fit well too. I would keep at that though.

pblackcrow · Unread post by **pblackcrow** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:16 pm

Feel free to post your own ideas. I would like to read them.

gaby · Unread post by **gaby** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:58 pm

The PPE Storage in a Tower is a Good idea.
This will make fighting a Wizard in ther tower harder.

Svartalf · Unread post by **Svartalf** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:19 pm

But only if the tower is on a ley line, or better, a nexus.

A tower that were a PPE accumulator, even if located away from a ley line would require at least Atlantean Stone Master expertise, and this is the Palladium World.

Jerell · Unread post by **Jerell** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:14 pm

Hmmmm How about square towers as an offshoot of lost obelisk stone magic?

Greyaxe · Unread post by **Greyaxe** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:52 am

Greyaxe built a dimensional pyramid on a nexus in the Great Northern Wilderness. He uses it as a seat of power to educate Wolven on the ways of magic as its a new area for Wolven.

Jerell · Unread post by **Jerell** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:08 pm

Sounds good to me. Greyaxe is Atlantian or Lemurian or something?

pblackcrow · Unread post by **pblackcrow** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:51 pm

Here is one example of a mega tower!

http://www.fantasy-arthouse.de/data/med ... Tower2.jpg

Greyaxe · Unread post by **Greyaxe** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:42 pm

Jerell wrote:Sounds good to me. Greyaxe is Atlantian or Lemurian or something?

Greyaxe is a Level 15 Wolven Wizard, 10th level Summoner who spent a lot of time on Atlantis. The OCC Stone Master is available to anyone, Greyaxe is now 8th level in this OCC as well.
I use him mostly as an NPC these days and plot device.

42dragon · Unread post by **42dragon** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:45 am

With GM approval or if you are the GM, you can create and use Magic Towers how ever you see fit. Perhaps some (supposedly) lost magic similar to but different from stone magic from the Time of A Thousand Magics. With each Palladium Book droping hints or down right introducing new lost magics, that pretty much sets precedence that you can create what ever type of magic is appropriate for your campaign.

Currently there is nothing in canon for Wizard Towers. But with all the history of magic in the Palladium World it is very likely there was Tower Magic at some point in the past. Either from the ToaTM or during the Old Ones reign.

If well defined it could make a great Rifter article.

pblackcrow · Unread post by **pblackcrow** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:09 pm

There are pyramids in the Yin Sloth Junges and on a few islands, so there are a link in Palladium Fantasy to use to a stone master. But there are several ways to do the tower. Lost magic, new magic, become an alchemist, etc.

I am not submitting ANYTHING else until I hear back from Wayne on the PFRPG character booklet that I submitted over 2 years ago. On January 13th, 2012!!! What's really annoying about it is, I can't even get him to send me a copy of it back to me. I've told him that I got hacked and explained what happened. I have wrote to Kevin and Alex as well. It is bloody ANNOYING!!! Yes, I get that they are busy, but it would take 5 minutes if that long to find the email and forward it back to me. It was a great little booklet. Heck even Kevin said he liked it. :badbad:

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:47 pm

Oh, hell, good luck. There's more than one reason I rewrote the original draft of MoM.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:24 am

Chi Geomancers (Mystic China) could set up a lot of focusing lines for accumulating chi (and then changing it into PPE) in a tower.

ronekiln · Unread post by **ronekiln** » Fri May 23, 2014 9:29 pm

I like all the ideas presented here. Though even without any magic involved in the structure, a tower has a lot of advantages for a secluded lair. The most powerful magic in the megaverse is useless if some bandit sneaks up while you're distracted and thunks you over the head with a rock. A tower is pretty nice at keeping out the occasional wanderer and offers lots of storage space for someone that makes only occasional grocery runs.

pblackcrow · Unread post by **pblackcrow** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:05 pm

Sense everyone else is bringing post back, I figured I would do the same. For further discussion.

The Oh So Amazing Nate · Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:07 pm

What if my wizard is afraid of heights? Can I have a ranch style stronghold?

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:54 pm

The Oh So Amazing Nate wrote:What if my wizard is afraid of heights? Can I have a ranch style stronghold?

Sure. I think a lot would like a villa style compound... good, thick walls all the way around the outside, with a central courtyard. It's a simple, sturdy, design.

pblackcrow · Unread post by **pblackcrow** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:37 pm

The Oh So Amazing Nate wrote:What if my wizard is afraid of heights? Can I have a ranch style stronghold?

Or Greco-Roman style.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:19 pm

Reminds me of the Sword of Truth series, the Rahl fortress was basically this big flat (maybe 1 to 3 levels?) big geogram thing.

Whiskeyjack · Unread post by **Whiskeyjack** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:57 pm

I like the idea of the towers being built on ley lines and nexus points. Gives the mage the energy he needs for his spells and defenses. I may use this in future PFRPG campaigns.

Neferkem · Unread post by **Neferkem** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:13 pm

I to like the idea of wizards building towers near a ley line or nexus point even if the tower does not have the ability to gather magic like pyramids. Primarily because most of the high level spells require so much PPE that having access to larger supply of magic makes casting those spells easier. If the wizard could either on his own or because he also was an earth warlock or summoner have a earth elemental construct the tower.

ShadowHawk · Unread post by **ShadowHawk** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:48 pm

pblackcrow wrote:Here is one example of a mega tower!

http://www.fantasy-arthouse.de/data/med ... Tower2.jpg

Dude, so that is where you got the idea for the epic playable tower that was in your basement when you and what's-his-face had your our own place before your Mom got sick!? uh, do you still have it? if so, I would like to get it from you, if you don't mind. I know you're finally moving to England again next summer.

pblackcrow · Unread post by **pblackcrow** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:27 pm

Yeah, sure. Um, it's in storage.