Cyborg Questions

[Crow Splat]

I was browsing through Warlords of Russia for the first time in several years and ran into a couple of things that I wasn't really clear on.

First, in the descriptions of the different cyborg bodies it lists all of the standard bionic systems that cone with it. At the bottom of these lists is often a phrase that is something like "... and all other features common to cyborgs." What does that mean? Is there a list of these common features or is that just a fancy way of saying they're otherwise just a normal cyborg?

Second, are those chassis limited to the cyborg shocktrooper occ or could they use one of the other borg occ's?

Finally, are there any published guidelines for converting a system from a suit of power armor into a system that a cyborg can use? Like what skills and percentages would be necessary to do it successfully? For example, taking the targeting computer and weapon "arms" from a Northern Gun Juicer Killer and rigging it up so that a cyborg could mount it on his back and feed off a secondary internal power supply, or integrating the gravimetric sensors that let you see gravity fields from that suit in one of the phase world books.

[torjones]

I was browsing through Warlords of Russia for the first time in several years and ran into a couple of things that I wasn't really clear on.

First, in the descriptions of the different cyborg bodies it lists all of the standard bionic systems that cone with it. At the bottom of these lists is often a phrase that is something like "... and all other features common to cyborgs." What does that mean? Is there a list of these common features or is that just a fancy way of saying they're otherwise just a normal cyborg?

Second, are those chassis limited to the cyborg shock trooper OCC or could they use one of the other 'Borg OCC's?

Finally, are there any published guidelines for converting a system from a suit of power armor into a system that a cyborg can use? Like what skills and percentages would be necessary to do it successfully? For example, taking the targeting computer and weapon "arms" from a Northern Gun Juicer Killer and rigging it up so that a cyborg could mount it on his back and feed off a secondary internal power supply, or integrating the gravimetric sensors that let you see gravity fields from that suit in one of the phase world books.

I read through a bunch of it, though, not the whole book to be certain, so I may have missed something.

Having said that however, what I think that they mean by the phrase "... and all other features common to cyborgs" is things like the MDC limits, how many of what type of cybernetic/bionic device can fit inside each segment of replaced body, and things of that nature, like is listed in the bionics source book. So in other words, it's "just a fancy way of saying they're otherwise just a normal cyborg."

Having scanned through the classes and the chassis, I don't see any limitations, so I strongly suspect that any of the 'Borg OCCs could use any of those chassis.

Finally, I don't remember ever seeing any guidelines for such a conversion. If it were my table, I'd say an appropriate skill check, and an appropriate amount of time later, the conversion is completed, as a one-off. Not sure I'd allow the gravimetric sensors, but depending on the campaign, it could work. Not sure how much use it would get on Rifts Earth, but the less likely it is to help the players, the more likely I'd allow it in the first place.

As always, YMMV.

[Crow Splat]

Ok.. That's what I thought and how we always played it but I was having one of those moments where the more I looked at it, the more I thought I was missing something somewhere.

[The Galactus Kid]

Any cyborg chassis in Warlords of Russia is limited to the Cyborg Shocktrooper O.C.C. unless it has been stolen or is being used for another purpose. Heavy Machines are usually the standard heavy combat cyborgs. Shocktroopers are the massive machines of war seen in the book. There are some unique heavy machine chassis designs (Triax has a number that would fall into this category for the Russians), but the Sovietski book isn't out yet. Let Palladium know it is something you want to see, considering I turned the manuscript in a few weeks ago.

[Crow Splat]

Any cyborg chassis in Warlords of Russia is limited to the Cyborg Shocktrooper O.C.C. unless it has been stolen or is being used for another purpose. Heavy Machines are usually the standard heavy combat cyborgs. Shocktroopers are the massive machines of war seen in the book. There are some unique heavy machine chassis designs (Triax has a number that would fall into this category for the Russians), but the Sovietski book isn't out yet. Let Palladium know it is something you want to see, considering I turned the manuscript in a few weeks ago.

Hooray for shameless self promotion.

But seriously, the artwork from Warlords of Russia is what really pushes it over the edge for me and makes it my favorite world book. Everything is so gritty and unapologetically kick ass. I expect the Sovietski would be a little more refined but I hope they keep the same vibe. The word that sums it up for me is "industrial. when I see it I can just hear gears turning, hydraulics working, and all sorts of metal machinery.

Back to cyborgs, what is the real advantage to the shocktrooper occ versus the standard borg occ from the bionics sourcebook? I mean following the borg construction steps you can get comparable MDC numbers as well as bionic weapons and systems. The only thing I could tell was the combat bonuses for the specific shocktrooper chassis and the cool factor.

[kaid]

Any cyborg chassis in Warlords of Russia is limited to the Cyborg Shocktrooper O.C.C. unless it has been stolen or is being used for another purpose. Heavy Machines are usually the standard heavy combat cyborgs. Shocktroopers are the massive machines of war seen in the book. There are some unique heavy machine chassis designs (Triax has a number that would fall into this category for the Russians), but the Sovietski book isn't out yet. Let Palladium know it is something you want to see, considering I turned the manuscript in a few weeks ago.

Hooray for shameless self promotion.

But seriously, the artwork from Warlords of Russia is what really pushes it over the edge for me and makes it my favorite world book. Everything is so gritty and unapologetically kick ass. I expect the Sovietski would be a little more refined but I hope they keep the same vibe. The word that sums it up for me is "industrial. when I see it I can just hear gears turning, hydraulics working, and all sorts of metal machinery.

Back to cyborgs, what is the real advantage to the shocktrooper occ versus the standard borg occ from the bionics sourcebook? I mean following the borg construction steps you can get comparable MDC numbers as well as bionic weapons and systems. The only thing I could tell was the combat bonuses for the specific shocktrooper chassis and the cool factor.

The shocktroopers on average are much bigger than a normal heavy machine/full cyborg. They often have unique features such as flight like the romanav angel and the old mans flying gargoyle looking ones. Most are heavier MDC than normal borgs and almost all have either more or unique armament not available to normal borgs. Also I am pretty sure all shocked troopers start with robotic strength instead of the normal augmented str for most borgs.

With the RUE more full conversion borgs can get robotic str but previously shocktroopers were some of the few that had it.

Some like the romanov angel is pretty close to a normal full conversion borg str/power wise and main boost is superior flying capability. Some like orlofs models and the demonfist one are really heavily armored and have very heavy weapons for full conversion borgs.


One other thing prior to warlords of russia integrated weapon systems for borgs were pretty underpowered. The best weapons they could get where things like the particle beam rod or the forearm weapons which were awkward to use and had minuses to strike and tended to not be very high damage. You also did not have things like grenade launchers/mini missile launchers integrated or heavy weapon arms unless you had one of the triax standard models.

With warlords of russia and the bionics source book more of this type of stuff is potentially available so the differences between a normal manually created full conversion borg and the shock trooper borgs is much less than it once was.

Oh last point shock troopers seemingly have much more potent power supplies than standard borgs as they have more weapons tied into their power systems without significant penalties that normal borgs suffer when doing the integrated weapon hookups.

[The Galactus Kid]

The only thing I could tell was the combat bonuses for the specific shocktrooper chassis and the cool factor.

Slightly different skill selection and access to the Schocktrooper chassis. Sovietski handle things a little differently though.

[PSI-Lence]

i was looking through posts and found this, i was actually just wondering if there was any reviews of the bionic's source book (well any recent ones, like is it still worth getting it since i imagine that much of it was from other books, or used in other books after given how old that source book is)

though one thing to add with the shocktrooper borg's from memory was the fact that they were much less 'human' in size and looks (not having any human facial features , being much larger/oddly shaped) and don't some of them have an HF? i think that would probably be even harder on the human mind so might need special training or ME requirement that 'normal' borg's don't

[kaid]

i was looking through posts and found this, i was actually just wondering if there was any reviews of the bionic's source book (well any recent ones, like is it still worth getting it since i imagine that much of it was from other books, or used in other books after given how old that source book is)

though one thing to add with the shocktrooper borg's from memory was the fact that they were much less 'human' in size and looks (not having any human facial features , being much larger/oddly shaped) and don't some of them have an HF? i think that would probably be even harder on the human mind so might need special training or ME requirement that 'normal' borg's don't

The bionics source book is a highly recommended purchase especially so if you don't have the old Rift main book and only have the RUE. That is because the RUE only lists bionics all the cybernetics/bio system stuff is now found in the bionics sourcebook. When making a borg I cannot tell you how nice it is to have all the stuff in one place it makes the initial borg character creation a lot quicker and easier instead of firing through like 7 books for the same info.

[Crow Splat]

I don't know if it was fixed in more recent printings but I know my copy does not have some of the bionic systems in it. Most notably the combat computer from new west. Other than a few minor things like that, I would still highly recommend the Bionics Sourcebook for anyone interested in doing anything with bionics in their games.

While I'm posting, some of the missile launchers in Warlord of Russia (which is another must have for anyone interested in bionics) talk about being able to be used by cyborg as shoulder-mount weapons. Now from the context I can interpret it to mean either a shoukder-fired weapon or a weapon system built into the cyborg chassis. Is it right to read it as meaning those weapons can be actually built into the cyborg? I have always allowed it mostly because there are other chassis' out there that have built in mini-missile launchers.

[kaid]

It means a built in shoulder mounted weapon system. You see a few of those types of shoulder mount weapons on the various shock troopers.

[PSI-Lence]

i was looking through posts and found this, i was actually just wondering if there was any reviews of the bionic's source book (well any recent ones, like is it still worth getting it since i imagine that much of it was from other books, or used in other books after given how old that source book is)

though one thing to add with the shocktrooper borg's from memory was the fact that they were much less 'human' in size and looks (not having any human facial features , being much larger/oddly shaped) and don't some of them have an HF? i think that would probably be even harder on the human mind so might need special training or ME requirement that 'normal' borg's don't

The bionics source book is a highly recommended purchase especially so if you don't have the old Rift main book and only have the RUE. That is because the RUE only lists bionics all the cybernetics/bio system stuff is now found in the bionics sourcebook. When making a borg I cannot tell you how nice it is to have all the stuff in one place it makes the initial borg character creation a lot quicker and easier instead of firing through like 7 books for the same info.

thanks , i do only have the old main book here and hardly any books with me (all mine are still in canada) though i figure for a lot of stuff i will still need to go through the most current book (not sure if warlords of russia is newer or older than the source book?0 but still sounds like a good thing to pick up, and after reading the thread i'll probably get the d-bee's of north america too for the most 'bang for the buck'

as for mounting weapons isn't that a skill even covered by field amorer? so i don't see why it shouldn't be an option (though trying to mount a medium or long range missile obviously would be very unlikely lol) even a single shot short range mounted on the back

[Crow Splat]

All the Russian stuff is in the Sourcebook except the special shocktrooper chassis and maybe the shocktrooper OCC, I'm not 100% on the OCC though. Also I think the Russia book is the only place I have seen a guideline for PB on a cyborg. Basically a chart of what to roll for PB for various types of faces.

Again on shoulder mount weapons, what would prevent a weapon from being built into a cyborg's shoulder? Obviously size is an issue but what else?

[PSI-Lence]

All the Russian stuff is in the Sourcebook except the special shocktrooper chassis and maybe the shocktrooper OCC, I'm not 100% on the OCC though. Also I think the Russia book is the only place I have seen a guideline for PB on a cyborg. Basically a chart of what to roll for PB for various types of faces.

Again on shoulder mount weapons, what would prevent a weapon from being built into a cyborg's shoulder? Obviously size is an issue but what else?

awesome, well just bought it (and lemuria, and austrailia and mahunter lol)

well i would think for mounting you would have to worry about size like you noted , but i would think vibration/recoil so extended rail gun bursts , or robot vehicle weapons might stress where they are connected to the borg's frame

to run really heavy weapons (P-beam cannons or heavy plasma) you may still need an independent power source since that might take more than a standard size borg (especially a light machine/cyborg) could put out in a burst of energy at one time

and anything that could damage the organic components (something like a biological, chemical or radioactive weapon) either by a non-environmental seal in the borg frame , and/or a leak in the weapon housing ... though i still never remember ever seeing bioloical weapons in rifts, and any nuclear reactor with a breach would be bad news for a borg

(keep in mind i don't ever remember seeing rules for any of this in books so if it turns out there is some cannon rules i'd be glad to learn too)