Handling love and relationships in game.

[kiralon]

awkwardly, and it usually breaks the atmosphere because of laughter, and then I make some dice rolls to see what happened based on MA, PB and situation. Also there are sites that have tables to try to roll against which does make it easier and if you want ideas google is your friend.

[Nightmask]

Seems to be one of the few things that works best as part of a PbP or otherwise in a faceless situation, where you can't see the person so you can more easily imagine just the character. I know it was a lot more awkward when I first start gaming in college (1st edition AD&D) and someone came onto me as his female elf character than someone doing it in a multi-player text-based RPG site online years later.

[The Dark Elf]

With A LOT of humour. Play the over the top charatcer:

Either a sex obsessed nympho whore who cant wait to get the guys pants off or the dumb, starstruck lover from early black n white hollywood films who just adores the lead man and he cant do anything wrong in her eyes "oh, my hero!".

That way you're not playing a realistic approach which takes away the need to be realistic and the tension that goes with it. try embarrassing the player by really getting into it and the laughter will flow! - Usually followed by the player dumping his new love interest.

[Bill]

My preferred method of running a campaign is based off of daytime dramas (soaps). So I definitely try to incorporate love interests, tawdry affairs, triangles, and occasionally evil twins. Naturally it's a bit awkward for me to play these parts as one straight male to (usually) another, but I go for it anyway. It adds so much depth and motivation to the story, I'd feel as if I were losing something if I attempted to avoid it for my own comfort.

My Friday night game actually featured a scene between two female characters, played by two males, one straight and one asexual. It's potentially a huge plot point too, so glossing over it or cutting away from it would leave the players without a large number of clues.

[MaxxSterling]

We simply don't handle it. It's just like an unsaid rule. They don't hit on NPC's, NPC's don't hit on them, past maybe some cat-calling or something. Never progresses further, end of story. That being said, I played with a group that had this kind of stuff happening. It went out of game, ended up with more than 2 people ahem interfacing at once and since everyone was married, it kinda ruined the group. Best to stay away, and if you're in a group of all guys and they are hitting on NPC's that you have to play, just make sure you understand their true intentions - it's probably a plea...

[Chronicle]

behind the scenes, if a player entices an PC, it goes into a room and the rest is history.

Player on player, i let them handle that in whispers or just go with the common knowledge that it does happen and yada.

[Juce734]

I avoid it if I can. If it must play out or is part of the plot then it is kept PG13 basically. Things can be implied but it isn't role played out.

[drewkitty ~..~]

if the GM does not want to do the 'relationship thing' then the GM can just not make his NPCs uninterested in the PC's.

[pblackcrow]

Anyway, to answer the question. I don't have my NPC's easily seduced...They know they have to either work at it or risk getting a VD at the local and most often nongovernmentally sanctioned brothel.

[kiralon]

and if they succeed to well they get a crossbow wedding

[zyanitevp]

Sounds to me like you need to get the latest Rifter and take a look at the Charm/Impress article. Might be useful for you. And there is aslo a seduction skill in some of the other game lines that you might want to port into PFRPG.

With regards to the 'raunchy action', have the guys roll under their P.E. on a D20 to see how well they lasted.
Girls don't need to roll anything - even a failure is pretty much a success as far as her partner is concerned.

I agree on the charm/impress article. In my game we have had 2 characters meet people and marry, and had another that would use his high beauty to sleep with people to get info.

[SmilingJack]

Historically as a DM when handling characters who are in love with a NPC I legit roll out the skill checks and try to actually convey the spirit of the characters personality, likewise I've used it as a real motivating factor in adventures both in terms of love with a NPC or PC to PC love connections

Really you can have fun with it either role playing it or adding comedic elements

Personally i prefer taking it seriously and interweaving it through the adventure even if it isn't a central plot component

Good question you posed, I love ideas like this that aren't run of the mill

[Akashic Soldier]

Its awkward sometimes, but it also makes for great stories and NPCs so I suck it up and power through it. My player's favorite NPC for a long time was a 12 year old Chinese childbride called Lee that had been sold to one of the PCs unwittingly because her father wanted a son. She adored her "husband" (their marriage was a legally binding contract because it was in small print on his Chinese food takeout receipt). It was entertaining, nothing sexual of course (she was 14!), but defiantly
memorable.

As a general rule, I keep anything off a sexual nature to "fade to black" scenes.

I go into this a little in the article Kevin and I wrote about using Charm and Impress in your game (Rifter #61).

[Jefffar]

I removed a few off topic posts and over the line posts.

Remember there is no age requirement to be a member of these forums. Please avoid graphic depictions of mature subjects.

[Alrik Vas]

I was playing Legend of the Five Rings, my character was a dastardly Scorpion Clan bushi, a magistrate in a large city. He met a beautiful and young warrior-maiden of the Unicorn Clan. He learned she was also a magistrate and his new superior, even though she was a year younger and less experienced, having gained the station by political appointment. Anyway, we were investigating these smugglers and things weren't going well, we couldn't get a break and one of the other magistrates was a detractor of the Unicorn girl, he wanted her job so he made a big stink. I stepped in and took responsibility, which went well considering my benefactor was our collective superior. Then i learend the guy's dirty secret (opium problem) and blackmailed him into apologizing and then had him exiled by letting his secret out to the governor. So i scored some brownie points there. Though she acted very proud and said she didn't need my help and she gave me the cold shoulder, but I had seen the look in her eyes when i stuck up for her.

Eventually the smuggler investigation turns into a manhunt and i have to go track them down. I go to report to my superior, but they tell me she's out practicing horse archery in the fields around the city. So i ride out that way, i see her and call out, she turns and sees me mid-gallop and the arrow comes loose, tags me in the chest and sends me clean off my horse.

The next thing i know, she's practically crying but holding it in, she's got the arrow out (she had excellent medicinal skills) and a hair away from outright begging me to be alright. I ask her what happened to the arrow and she holds it up, i put my hand on hers and she turned very red. I could have lept on her and kissed the hell out of her right then, but we were samurai, and it just isn't done. So i took the arrowhead from her and told her i would keep it for good luck on my trip. She really didn't want me to leave, but i got back on my horse and managed to ride off like the injury was no problem.

Six months and three letters back to our city later, the smugglers had been brought to justice (i had to murder them in their sleep, there were too many to fight) and i returned to find that my benefactor (also the magisterial chief) had arranged a marriage between me and the girl who shot me in the heart.

The GM, one of the biggest alpha males i know, played the demure girl and there was not a laugh at the table about it. We just get into character, and have a very clean separation between our characters, our egoes, and real life.

That's how you handle love and relationships in game. You let your character do what they're going to do and appreciate the story.

[Marrowlight]

Shockingly easily, as a personal player, as well as everyone else in my regular party. The actual sex is always glossed over, but all the other aspects of the relationship are covered in real time - often to the chagrin of the involved parties.

Though I've found such matters work way better in Super-Hero games than Fantasy ones, though I can't really say why.

[Noon]

This thread has made me think of social climber attempting to offer courting or marriage with his daughter to one of the PC's (as the PC's have quite some power now), which will give the PC's access to perhaps more money - however I'll warn them that taking it up means 'risking' a few low chance rolls of psychological attachment to the woman (I'm not gunna just let the PC rock in, take the cash and leave - not that easy). If they fail, then if the woman/family calls upon their aid but they ignore it, they'll take a penalty in what they are doing from being distracted (perhaps something like a horror factor roll, but more like a distraction factor).

[Gryphon Chick]

In our group, the GM leaves it largely up to dice rolls and skill checks, but if the player is trying to make the character be a player or ladies man then the GM will set up the character with a target for their affections that is actually a trap set by the villain to catch the character off his guard. Games are not meant for creating sexual fantasies, but I have seen some players try to do that as if making their character more studly will somehow transfer something to themselves.

[Stone Gargoyle]

In our group, the GM leaves it largely up to dice rolls and skill checks, but if the player is trying to make the character be a player or ladies man then the GM will set up the character with a target for their affections that is actually a trap set by the villain to catch the character off his guard. Games are not meant for creating sexual fantasies, but I have seen some players try to do that as if making their character more studly will somehow transfer something to themselves.

I try to reduce it to dice rolls when possible. It does often get awkward. I have one player in my group who is a homosexual and likes to have his characters be that way for the most part, and he always insists on trying to make his characters have relationships with the NPCs. In one scenario, he was trying to have a relationship with one of the police detectives and it was a simple matter of just making the police detective be so involved in his work that the relationship was not easy to maintain. But, yeah, it gets ridiculous, especially when the characters involved are not even the same species.

[Nightmask]

In our group, the GM leaves it largely up to dice rolls and skill checks, but if the player is trying to make the character be a player or ladies man then the GM will set up the character with a target for their affections that is actually a trap set by the villain to catch the character off his guard. Games are not meant for creating sexual fantasies, but I have seen some players try to do that as if making their character more studly will somehow transfer something to themselves.

You're creating all sorts of fantasies with games and last I checked there was no 'games are for non-sexual fantasies only' rule anywhere. If anything playing all your characters as if they're sexless neuters interested in nothing but a particular non-sexual interest is presenting an unrealistic representation of a character. Characters should be 3-dimensional which means they ought to be showing some interest in the opposite sex even if it's just casual flirting from time to time.

[Boethermsbrukan]

Hm. In general, I play the only Wolfen in the group (if we're talking Palladium Fantasy) more often than not, so it's more along the lines of 'Damn, that wolf-person is frickin' huge' rather than something romantic. I mean, you can do the whole 'Beauty And The Beast' infatuation bit, sure, but it's rare that I've had that come up.

In my case, I hope I don't brag by saying I'm good at- or at least am a whole lot better than I used to be- at demarcating Character RP Powered By Player and Player RL Self, in the area of gaming. I can easily get very deeply into a given RP session but it's uncommon for me to lose myself in it to the point where I start getting RL-angry or RL-upset if things get tense, again, at least much more uncommon than ten years ago. Romantic encounters are the same way for me, even if I happen to be of an, er, compatible species to the other party or party members. Romance, short of blatantly sexual acts (which I avoid as a whole in-game if I can) is another form of roleplaying for me. I don't find it uncomfortable and certainly if I'm RPing said interaction with someone I trust RL I know they're not going to intentionally offend or try to hurt me through the RP.

That's my two silvers.

-Boe.

[Alrik Vas]

Games are not meant for creating sexual fantasies, but I have seen some players try to do that as if making their character more studly will somehow transfer something to themselves.

It's just poor roleplaying, usually the offender is a teenager who hasn't had any real life experience yet.

Though i advise you to go back and read the post i made if you've never had a good experience with romance in a game. There was nothing explicitly sexual in it, i wasn't bragging about anything, i was only trying to give an example of how handling love and relationships in a game can be engaging if you check your ego at the door and just play in character. It's just story telling where you get to decide how one of the major characters impacts things.

[Noon]

In our group, the GM leaves it largely up to dice rolls and skill checks, but if the player is trying to make the character be a player or ladies man then the GM will set up the character with a target for their affections that is actually a trap set by the villain to catch the character off his guard. Games are not meant for creating sexual fantasies, but I have seen some players try to do that as if making their character more studly will somehow transfer something to themselves.

Sounds like it just gets in the way of the GM's story (because him doing that is also story - a different one from the GM's)

[Marrowlight]

In our group, the GM leaves it largely up to dice rolls and skill checks, but if the player is trying to make the character be a player or ladies man then the GM will set up the character with a target for their affections that is actually a trap set by the villain to catch the character off his guard. Games are not meant for creating sexual fantasies, but I have seen some players try to do that as if making their character more studly will somehow transfer something to themselves.

So are you saying you shouldn't try to live out your sexual fantasies through your character, or are you saying any instance of sex shouldn't be in a game?

[Marrowlight]

I don't know what he's saying, but I would agree that players shouldn't bring their sexual fantasies into the game unless everyone, including the GM, has agreed to this before hand. Otherwise, it's inappropriate and disruptive, especially if there are female players who are the recipients of unwanted in-game sexual advances.

For the first part, I think it's a little "the devil is in the details", for the second part...yeah, that's just nasty. It's a fringe enough hobby to begin with, no need to worsen it by being creepy - if not downright criminal.

But yeah, I'm just looking for a lil clarification.

We've got a guy in my group with a fondness for asian women. Sure enough, he took the bait and danced around on the hook for months when an asian super-villain npc started making advances. He was also playing a teenager, so it was even more in-keeping.

To me, that's years distant than a guy whose out to express his hidden hate-$%( fantasies out on every princess and pirate queen we come across. Which, of course, is also a pretty overblown example, intentionally.

And again, really just hoping for a lil clarification. *nod*

[Marrowlight]

Well, first off, I would not recommend that a GM encourage racial stereotypes nor enable players who do so. Simply because Asian women are typically thought of 'exotic'; the "dragon lady" motif is stereotypically used to describe Asian women. For example:

http://wallpaperpassion.com/upload/2117 ... lpaper.jpg

Ultimately this is racially demeaning to Asian women as it objectifies them. That's my 2 cents on that.

I am gonna take this to pm's. As this isn't sound off, I'll ask everyone else to refrain from continuing this line of conversation as well. I'm not looking to cause any mod attention grabbing by going way off topic here.

[Marrowlight]

Unless I worded something very poorly, which is entirely possible - I was never asking for any feedback from anyone, and was instead looking for Gryphon Chick to expand on her position, and just tossed out a couple examples along the way, neither looking for nor caring for feedback.

I also have no issues - I just feel that a discussion on stereotyping in the real world is a matter for sound off, not this forum. Hence my request.


Ah. I see where confusion occurred. You took my request for clarification as pertaining to you. My bad there. Though I responded to your post, I was only ever looking for clarification from Gryphon on her position, nothing more. I never intended anyone to think I wanted any kind of feedback on any other matters. My bad there.

[Marrowlight]

it's silly to suggest that those who respond to it are somehow 'out of line' for addressing an issue that you brought up in the first place. Right?

I didn't suggest such a thing. I just didn't want the thread to get derailed further on such a topic (and yes, as I'm aware I'm only continuing the problem I was hoping to avoid, this will be my last post on that matter of derailment), and so asked for others to not continue responding to it.

[Novastar]

Well, first off, I would not recommend that a GM encourage racial stereotypes nor enable players who do so. Simply because Asian women are typically thought of 'exotic'; the "dragon lady" motif is stereotypically used to describe Asian women. For example:

http://wallpaperpassion.com/upload/2117 ... lpaper.jpg

Ultimately this is racially demeaning to Asian women as it objectifies them. That's my 2 cents on that.

It's only objectifying if you think every Asian female is like that.
Just like if you think every Asian man is Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan.
It's no more objectifying than thinking every white male in Arthurian England was a Knight.
Or every Moor in Spain was black and wore a turban.
Or every African was a Zulu warrior.

It's a stereotype to be sure, but stereotypes don't become negative till you let them.
(and Kelly Hu is hot, I don't care what she's in. That's a good-looking woman, 'der.)

[Gryphon Chick]

In our group, the GM leaves it largely up to dice rolls and skill checks, but if the player is trying to make the character be a player or ladies man then the GM will set up the character with a target for their affections that is actually a trap set by the villain to catch the character off his guard. Games are not meant for creating sexual fantasies, but I have seen some players try to do that as if making their character more studly will somehow transfer something to themselves.

So are you saying you shouldn't try to live out your sexual fantasies through your character, or are you saying any instance of sex shouldn't be in a game?

I am saying that there are times when it detracts from a game and some players spend a lot of time on it rather than playing the game to solve the immediate problems presented by the game. I can see it as being part of the story at times, but other times it seems too much time is taken up in the session be this sort of distraction.

[Marrowlight]

I am saying that there are times when it detracts from a game and some players spend a lot of time on it rather than playing the game to solve the immediate problems presented by the game. I can see it as being part of the story at times, but other times it seems too much time is taken up in the session be this sort of distraction.

OK sweet. Thanks. So would I be correct in assuming that the games in question, where it detracts, tend to be more adventuring in the wilds/situational problem solving type events? Not necessarily dungeon crawlers, but things of that vein?

[The Dark Elf]

Games are not meant for creating sexual fantasies

Hehe. Google "Role playing" as see what freaky **** you get, lol!

[Stone Gargoyle]

I am saying that there are times when it detracts from a game and some players spend a lot of time on it rather than playing the game to solve the immediate problems presented by the game. I can see it as being part of the story at times, but other times it seems too much time is taken up in the session be this sort of distraction.

OK sweet. Thanks. So would I be correct in assuming that the games in question, where it detracts, tend to be more adventuring in the wilds/situational problem solving type events? Not necessarily dungeon crawlers, but things of that vein?

Gryphon Chick primarily plays Heroes Unlimited where the sessions are geared towards solving problems and battling villains, not so much PFRPG stuff so much. I have played in games with her. Personally, I don't see it as much of a distraction, more just awkward for the GM who has to play the roles of female NPCs or male NPCs being hit on by some of the male players in our group.

[Noon]

In our group, the GM leaves it largely up to dice rolls and skill checks, but if the player is trying to make the character be a player or ladies man then the GM will set up the character with a target for their affections that is actually a trap set by the villain to catch the character off his guard. Games are not meant for creating sexual fantasies, but I have seen some players try to do that as if making their character more studly will somehow transfer something to themselves.

So are you saying you shouldn't try to live out your sexual fantasies through your character, or are you saying any instance of sex shouldn't be in a game?

I am saying that there are times when it detracts from a game and some players spend a lot of time on it rather than playing the game to solve the immediate problems presented by the game. I can see it as being part of the story at times, but other times it seems too much time is taken up in the session be this sort of distraction.

If the GM or whoever organises the game has decided the game is about dealing with practical problems, then they should state that's what play is about and when someone ignores what play is about, they should chase that up.

As it is, it sounds like the GM/whoever organises it hasn't actually decided play is about dealing with immediate problems. Sometimes GM's aren't very good in terms of that, leadership wise.

[arouetta]

I find relationships aren't awkward at my table. No one is interested in hitting on the NPCs, and the few times I've had the NPCs hit on the PCs, it is always flirt/rebuff. (Though the look on the face of the PC playing a female human was priceless when the NPC male ogre took one look at her and stopped talking about food. He wasn't subtle about flirting.)

What I find happens at my table is PC/PC romance. The comments get a little r-rated, and people laugh at the dirty jokes. Right now, two characters got married and are trying to talk a third character to join in. And it's handled with humor. Not awkward laughter, genuine humor.

I don't know if it's our player table makeup (3 girls, 3 guys, 2 married couples, and an understanding that this is all pretend), the fact that we've been friends forever, or something else, but it's just another part of the game.

In the other GM's game, there is NPC/PC romance, but it's handled in the same way. Jokes, laughter, and the basis for good stories.