Universel credit system

[tmikesecrist3]

on thing I am reading in some of the forms is some confusion about how the credits work... most people seem to think they work like Credit or debet cards... I cant rember what book it is in but that is not how they work... or not nessarly how they work... sure if you like in a large city, or in CS taratory you could have your card linked to your accout.... but the card it self has a chip on it. and the Credits are loaded on the the card. like a prepade card. but the chip on the card records the ballance. so there is no need to connect to the make main frame at all. all you need is a computer that can read the data on the chip... and you can deduct form the balince on the chip to pay for goods and servises or you can add to the balnice on the chip for the sale of goods and serves... when you go back to your back you can have funds on the card cedited to your accout. or you can have them added to the card at any time.... you can go to some one like an Atherised blackmarket dealer and even have the funds on two or mare cards combind on to one card... I dont rember what book it says that in but I know I red it in the books it might be in RAE or mercs... now the CS is not the only nation or kingdom in NA with its own credits... most small kingdoms and city states have there own.. and also the black market has there own.... The UC and Black Market Credits are perfired by adinvers mercs and tavilers becouse They are more stable Eccomincaly and less likely to be destoryed By an emany. infact even enamys of the states youse the UC as there resurve cerntisy much like many contorys today use the USD as theres. the Tech for the UC system is a hold over form the golden age. and the old North Amarcan allince

[Akashic Soldier]

It is listed in the Rifts: Game Master Guide.

[tmikesecrist3]

It is listed in the Rifts: Game Master Guide.

Knew I read that some where just could not rember which book think you Akashic... and I did not feel like checking my whole collection

[Akashic Soldier]

Knew I read that some where just could not rember which book think you Akashic... and I did not feel like checking my whole collection

Know the feeling brother! Welcome back to the board by the way, its always great to have another Rifts fan around here!

A word of advice though my friend, if someone attacks you for how you misspell sometimes don't get upset and respond, just click the report button on their post and inform the moderation team. Some people are grammar nazi's on here. Fortunately for the both of us, it doesn't happen to often.

[tmikesecrist3]

Oh I know... last time I got made I ended up installing Word and useing its spell check.... but I might do that any way just to make sure I can be understood..... and it keeps my room mate form getting on the forms and reading my posts pheniticly to my mother lol

[Akashic Soldier]

Oh I know... last time I got made I ended up installing Word and useing its spell check.... but I might do that any way just to make sure I can be understood..... and it keeps my room mate form getting on the forms and reading my posts pheniticly to my mother lol

Its your call my friend! Just have fun and keep contributing!

[Tiree]

Oh I know... last time I got made I ended up installing Word and useing its spell check.... but I might do that any way just to make sure I can be understood..... and it keeps my room mate form getting on the forms and reading my posts pheniticly to my mother lol

Its your call my friend! Just have fun and keep contributing!

I'd go with a "Web Browser" with a spell check feature built in. FireFox has one.

[glitterboy2098]

if you get the latest version of Firefox, you have an in browser spellcheck too. helps me immensely.

regarding universal credits, this is a discussion that crops up often. i've generally assumed that UC's are a bit like bitcoin, where your trading what are basically encrypted ID codes that are each unique. in a civilized and technological location, banking works similar to credit cards, with the actual card just telling a computer to move around a given amount between accounts. to use them in areas not on your main banking net or to bring them between towns, you store the codes themselves onto the memory of the card itself, and as you spend them the files are transferred to the other person's card or bank. this allows you to move credits between unconnected banking systems in a similar fashion to how money was moved before the advent of computer networks. (it used to be that banks would send records via couriers when interbank transactons occured, and if the receiving back didn't have enough reserve on hand, actual money, or more often securities and bonds up to the amount needed, were sent.)

since each credit is a unique code, you can't just duplicate them and get free money. eventually those counterfit credits will flag a notice. especially since you can compare the contents of encrypted files without actually reading their contents, since the digital info will be unique for each one. and since the codes are encrypted, you can't just build a random code generator either. you'd have to know the encyrption, the code format (and these are going to be a complex formula), and the currently used range of codes.. and if you know all that, your basically skilled enough you don't need to counterfit.

[glitterboy2098]

not really stated, but fiat currency is likely.

IMO most of the major non-CS states have their own versions of credits, with currency exchanges so you can convert. i just assume the CS's currency is the one most use as a common value for comparison. much the same way that you have lots of different currencies in the world, but American dollars are the one used often for comparing the value of things.

and out of game it helps to have a single currency listing for costs. then the GM can just decide how many Uc's a given currency is equivalent to and multiply or divide prices accordingly.

and in regards to the black market, they'd have money laundering schemes in place to ensure the money they take in can't be traced. these would involved front companies (when you pay the black market, odds are you'd pay 'cash' with a stored value on a card, and the 'cash' would then to transferred to various innocent businesses in a number of microtransactions, which in turn do business with other entities, and so on until the money can reach the intended recipient without it looking like the result of something illegal.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Not trying to add fuel to the fire, but the new NG books apparently will address the Credit system as well as alternate (( Non CS)) Credits.

[Tiree]

When Rifts first came out, my view of the credits like this:

The Coalition had their own Credits/Monetary System that used a debit card of sorts.
Other true nations used paper and coin currency. Generally speaking there was a bank to "Convert" said currency to the Coalition.
Towns and Black Market used "Goods" to trade. Hence why characters started with a 1d4x1000 Black Market saleable items.

I usually use gemstones or gold coins as goods. But it could be something as cool as a copy of "Rifts: Promise of Power" or a DVD of Star Wars (obviously Han Solo shoots first - anything else isn't worth anything).

[tmikesecrist3]

I think the CS uses A Fiat system for there credits. some independent kingdoms may do so as well. other places will back up there local credits with what ever resources they have on hand. and still others and this is more risky but they do it just like some contrys who use the USD as there reserve back up there credits with CS credits. The black market does take there own Credits and CS credits the black market Credits would more then likely be blacked up by Black market goods and servises or even like the Euro it may be backed up by the production compasady or the GDP of black market . What will happen may times if your in a town that does not have the tech base to read the chips on the card. is you will go to the Trading post/bank in town. and be given a Note of Credit equal to the value of the goods or sruverses you traded with the town as a Whole. that is good at any business in town. need repairs go to the operaters and he will dedicted his fee form your note of credit and then take what goods he needs equal to that value for the trading post/bank later. want a room or meal or drink same thing. Some places will also use paper notes, coins or even tokens of trade that could be made form any thing form plastic to wood cheap metal (tin or copper) or stone...

Lazlo uses CS credits as does kingsdale and Wyken

[Tiree]

When I give money to players, it's generally in the local currency of the person/state/company that is hiring them. It has full face value within their state, and is equivalent to the Universal Credit in that area. But if the player wants another type of credit, then the value is less, much less.

It ties the players to the organization for any "Upgrades" or "Repair" and if they decide to leave, it deflates what they earned by quite a bit.

Corporate Script from Shadowrun is where I picked this up from.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I remembered this article but couldn't remember what book it was in, but Palladium has it conveniently hosted right on the website:

http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php ... Itemid=200

explains exactly how credits work.

There are basically 3 kinds;

CS Universal Credits - just about everyone accepts these, even enemies of the CS, because they can then trade them in at someplace like Northern Gun/MI for something they CAN use.

NGMI Credits - accepted by any place that sells NG/MI equipment, thereby making them almost as universally accepted as CS Universal Credits, because almost every town of any note has a seller of NG/MI equipment. If you had a million credits on an NGMI card, you could probably, at any NGMI institution, have them converted to CSUC's for a minor fee, as NG/MI trade with the CS and could use the credits themselves

Black Market Credits - "Black Credits" - good at any Black Market operation. Not accepted elsewhere, really.

The credits in all cases seem to be loaded onto secure cards - much like the examples above re: bitcoins - and the reason you can get away with using them is that if you load them onto a card, the home bank isnt contacted. You put your card in one of the slots, i put mine in the other, we agree on an amount, punch it in, and hit transfer. The credits vanish from my card and end up on yours.

[flatline]

The credits in all cases seem to be loaded onto secure cards - much like the examples above re: bitcoins - and the reason you can get away with using them is that if you load them onto a card, the home bank isnt contacted. You put your card in one of the slots, i put mine in the other, we agree on an amount, punch it in, and hit transfer. The credits vanish from my card and end up on yours.

It might be worth creating a thread that explores how this last bit would be extremely hard to make work securely.

--flatline

[glitterboy2098]

thats why i make credits each an encyrpted unique ID code. makes each one unique and harder to forge.

[Akashic Soldier]

You guys are not taking into account the uncrackable Vinderfex Equation. Its like the Voynich manuscript of the hacking world and the damn thing prevents direct credit transfers. Hackers the world over have been trying to bust it since it was first conceptualized but to no avail. Maybe one day someone will get around it and they'll be able to punch in some numbers and take your money... but until then Vinderfex remains a towering monolith of digital genius.

Warning: Nothing in the previous post is canon, but it very well could be. Remember, distant future, alien technologies, science beyond our current capacity to understand. The spirit of the game is you cannot tirelessly transfer 60,000,000 double dollars with a simple hacking roll. Techno-babble an explination. Heck, cracking the aforementioned code or figuring a way around it could be the premise for an entire campaign. "We've figured out the 6 string and a former Triax scientist has conformed he has cracked the repeating Z-Code which means if we can get that we might be able to figure out the next part of the puzzle. Pack up, here are your plane tickets... it seems we've got a some work to do my fellow rogues and scoundrels."

[glitterboy2098]

the US dollar has no inherent value either. that's why it's called fiat money. it's value is based on the relative strength of the economy it's in.

bitcoins were no more a scam than any other fiat money when it's first issued. the problem with bitcoin wasn't the money itself, it was the fact the currency had no large powerful backers to give people the reassurance needed to accept it as a valid form of trade, and threaten legal action should someone try to forge or manipulate the currency.

hell, even metal coinage started off with no inherent value either. we have found records of proclamations from the first kingdoms to adopt coinage telling their people that the new coins are to be used for transactions, and reassuring people that if necessary the kingdom will exchange the coins for other goods as reparations.

[glitterboy2098]

except that's not how fiat money works. fiat money is not backed by anything, it has value because a group says it has value. it's not backed by assets of the group issuing it, just by peoples faith that it has value. thus the 'term 'fiat',meaning "let it be done". it has value because the group issuing it says it has value. it's relative value is derived from peoples willingness to use it and the amount in circulation, and not determined based off any real world assets.

[flatline]

The American dollar has value because it is the only legal tender with which you can pay your tax bill to the US federal and state governments.

--flatline

[Pepsi Jedi]

That's not the "WHY" it has value though.

[flatline]

That's not the "WHY" it has value though.

It seems unnecessary to describe how the government will ruin your life if you don't pay them the taxes they decide you owe them. It is simply sufficient to say that people feel compelled to pay their taxes and, as such, need to have American dollars to pay their taxes with, thus giving American dollars real value.

Is that the "why" you were looking for?

--flatline

[Pepsi Jedi]

That's not the "WHY" it has value though.

It seems unnecessary to describe how the government will ruin your life if you don't pay them the taxes they decide you owe them. It is simply sufficient to say that people feel compelled to pay their taxes and, as such, need to have American dollars to pay their taxes with, thus giving American dollars real value.

Is that the "why" you were looking for?

--flatline

*Chuckles* No. That's a different why all together.

[glitterboy2098]

you'd bring with you some goods to trade, or agree to work a specific amount of time for pay. then you'd be given a card with the credits loaded on it. if they don't have a spare card, they'd only trade in kind, not use credits.

generally a small town wouldn't be using credits for most trade, they'd be trading in kind, meaning you bring your furs or dried meat or veggies or whatever, and you'd barter for other goods. credits might be mentioned as a way of defining relative value (as in "i'll give you 50 credits for that wolf pelt", then the guy with selling the fur picks out goods worth up to 50 credits), but no actually currency would change hands. you can see this kind of transaction in a number of older 'frontier' type films, where pioneers or trappers would bring their furs into a general store and they'd then barter for the supplies they need)

in big towns you'd visit a bank and put up collateral, or you'd sell your goods to a store, and some of the credits from the transaction would be deducted to pay for the card they give you. if the storekeeper is willing, and you trust him, you could also get a bill of sale for your goods, then go to a bank, who would give you a card with the amount on the bill of sale, pulled from the storekeeps account.

cards would be fairly cheap (they're basically just plastic, a RFID, a small computer chip and a flashdrive), and 'empty' cards would likely be manufactured in bulk by most technological powers. one would imagine most banks have crates of the things for giving out to their customers. the empty cards are of little worth, since it's the data on them that carries the buying power.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Thanks

I think I'm just going to treat it as though there are two types of cards. One that works by being networked to a specific banking system, and one that is simply a device that holds "credits" without any attachment and can therefore be considered a tradeable good itself (a card containing 4000 credits, for example, as opposed to the bank card of Joe Schmoe the guy you just killed).

Like anon credsticks?

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Thanks

I think I'm just going to treat it as though there are two types of cards. One that works by being networked to a specific banking system, and one that is simply a device that holds "credits" without any attachment and can therefore be considered a tradeable good itself (a card containing 4000 credits, for example, as opposed to the bank card of Joe Schmoe the guy you just killed).

Which is basically exactly what the article i linked said (that is an article from New West, by KS); there are three different manufacturers of these cards, too - CS Universal Credits, Northern Gun credits, and Black Market credits. Black Market cards are only the anonymous type.

Best to view the non-name-bound cards rather like bearer bonds. THe bearer gets the money, no (or few) questions asked.

[tmikesecrist3]

The USD has value becouse the note says this note is legal tender for all dets public and private.... if fact if you refuse to accept the usd as payment for a debt by law it nolifys the debt

[Pepsi Jedi]

The USD has value becouse the note says this note is legal tender for all dets public and private.... if fact if you refuse to accept the usd as payment for a debt by law it nolifys the debt

Sadly not in all cases. There's been more than one case in the past few years where people have refused change for example and enough places are going to 'No cash' that it's becoming more prevalent. Not universal but the old addage 'Everyplace HAS to take cash" is not quiet true any more.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

The USD has value becouse the note says this note is legal tender for all dets public and private.... if fact if you refuse to accept the usd as payment for a debt by law it nolifys the debt

Not remotely true, by the way.