Do Psi-stalkers turn MDC against all MDC beings or ..

[Lenwen]

Do Psi-Stalkers turn MDC against all MDC beings or is it just the supernatural MDC beings ?

[The Beast]

IIRC, it's just the supernatural ones and maybe creatures of magic.

[Giant2005]

"whenever a Psi-Stalker locks horns with an M.D.C. supernatural being or creature of magic, his Hit Points turn into M.D.C.".
It is fairly self-explanatory.
I'd take it a step further and say it works against anything that isn't gaining it's MDC capabilities from technology, purely to prevent any arguments on what constitutes a Supernatural being or Creature of Magic.

[Nightmask]

Psi-Stalkers are MDC beings now? Since when?

[Lenwen]

Since Rue ..

[Pepsi Jedi]

Well they're "Situational minor MDC beings"

In that, if they jump a supernatural critter, they turn into minor mdc beings for the duration of the fight, then turn back.

Helps to explain why they don't starve rapidly, or get gooshed by trying to get subsistence (( if they can't afford md armor, which.. does cost thousands and thousands of credits))

The wording is interesting. I think the easy way to do it is to go 'if they fight natural MD critters they get their temp md. If they're fighting SDC critters in armor they stay SDC. If they're fighting creatures of magic, they get the md. (( Creatures of magic might be sdc, but in the rifts universe they'll be slinging md damage))

[Nightmask]

Since Rue ..

*shakes his head sadly*

[Kagashi]

It would have been easier to just say, "takes physical damage from supernatural creatures and creatures of magic as if it were SDC."

That way you dont have to think about conditional situations. According to RUE, a psi-stalker in hand to hand combat with a brodkil can take a JA-12 blast to the back of the head from the brodkil's sniper buddy just because he is fighting a supernatural creature. I don't think that was the intent of the power. The intent was what Pepsi Jedi said about survival in the early years of the mutation (and lack of MD armor in that time period).

[Killer Cyborg]

It would have been easier to just say, "takes physical damage from supernatural creatures and creatures of magic as if it were SDC."

It would have been easier still to just give psi-stalkers natural attacks (fists, feet, teeth) the ability to damage Supernatural/magical foes, and leave the psi-stalkers' own damage capacity out of it.
Since they're supposed to be predators and all.

Heck, give that power to dog boys too, going with the "dogs inflict MD to supernatural creatures" rule from Chaos Earth.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Another thing to take into account, is that these things we play, or play with, wern't created with game book mechanics in mind. They're created to seem cool, and mechanics are applied to them so we can play the game past "I shot you!" "No you didn't!" "I shot you, you're dead!" "Nu uh!"

In this, Psistalkers were human mutations that feed on magical energies and hunt supernatural creatures. They bleed them and feed on the released energy. They have special psionic abilities to hunt and find the magical/supernatural.

So that's what you have.

Now.. you've got to give stats to it. Not so that stats rock.. but because.. you want to be able to get beyond the 'I shot you! NO YOU DIDN"T" type exchanges.

When you sit back and look at the game you suddenly have this problem. "Wow.. we've built these guys to be sdc creatures." "Yeah".....

"But they feed almost exclusively off MD creatures.. or creatures (( including mages)) That have innate MD Damage dealing abilities"

"..... Well. yeah"

"Ok...... so.... how do they survive... if they're not in the CS army?"

"What do you mean?"

"I mean MD armor costs 20,000 credits and up. MD weapons are likewise expensive. hell a robot dog is over a million bucks.. if they don't have a military to fund them.. how do they survive the fight to eat on Thursday night?"

"................. oh.. Um. Well they're natural psionics."

"yeahh but still their prey either do MD damage with every swipe of the claws... or can throw an MD Fireball at your head"

"Oh...... hurm.... that is a problem isn't it?"

"yeah.... we've already stated they don't like feeding from laylines and stuff. It's like drinking chunky sour milk."

"Hurm......"

"Shouldn't they all have died out.... shortly after their mutation occurred?"

"Well they eat food as kids, they're sort of weened onto the energy at puberty"

"ok.. but still. out in the woods during the dark ages, what are they doing? hoping that a supernatural creature kills another supernatural creature and they're hinding under a rock?"

"oh........ hurm... yeah"


So... they made them situational MD critter's themselves. In that they're human mutations.. that when fighting MD or Supernatural creatures, get a little MD themselves.

Why? because you envision the 'THING" (( what ever that thing is)) before you tie it up in stats. The "THING" in this case was "Cool human mutants that feed off magical energies of supernatural, and thus hunt them!"

The rules just allow you do do it.

[Killer Cyborg]

So... they made them situational MD critter's themselves. In that they're human mutations.. that when fighting MD or Supernatural creatures, get a little MD themselves.

Right.
Except that (skipping over all the ,many, many ways that psi-stalkers could survive without ANY boost from their stats in the original book) the power boost they got STILL doesn't explain how they survive.
They need kill supernatural creatures (etc.) to survive, and they still can't do that without expensive high-tech gear.
If they'd at least gotten an offensive boost in power, they might be able to sneak up and dogpile supernatural baddies and kill it with their bare hands before it killed them.
Pure defense won't help them feed.

[flatline]

I never understood the psi-stalker. It has a whole slew of abilities that allow it to track a very specific type of prey, but once it's found its prey, it has no way to harm or survive being harmed by its prey.

Even worse, even though it's a mutation in response to the high PPE levels of rifts earth, it doesn't gain any of the benefits that other creatures get when they are "improved" by the high PPE levels (natural MDC, supernatural strength and endurance, etc).

They should have just made it a minor MDC creature with supernatural strength and some sort of special abilities that either only kick in against opponents that qualify as prey or special attacks that are only effective against opponents that qualify as prey.

--flatline

[Pepsi Jedi]

So... they made them situational MD critter's themselves. In that they're human mutations.. that when fighting MD or Supernatural creatures, get a little MD themselves.

Right.
Except that (skipping over all the ,many, many ways that psi-stalkers could survive without ANY boost from their stats in the original book) the power boost they got STILL doesn't explain how they survive.
They need kill supernatural creatures (etc.) to survive, and they still can't do that without expensive high-tech gear.
If they'd at least gotten an offensive boost in power, they might be able to sneak up and dogpile supernatural baddies and kill it with their bare hands before it killed them.
Pure defense won't help them feed.

Indeed, but it does keep them alive longer to attempt to. lol I.E. "It doesn't solve the entire problem.. but it doesn't hurt!"

[Pepsi Jedi]

I never understood the psi-stalker. It has a whole slew of abilities that allow it to track a very specific type of prey, but once it's found its prey, it has no way to harm or survive being harmed by its prey.

Even worse, even though it's a mutation in response to the high PPE levels of rifts earth, it doesn't gain any of the benefits that other creatures get when they are "improved" by the high PPE levels (natural MDC, supernatural strength and endurance, etc).

They should have just made it a minor MDC creature with supernatural strength and some sort of special abilities that either only kick in against opponents that qualify as prey or special attacks that are only effective against opponents that qualify as prey.

--flatline

I sort of like the 'situational mdc' part. But I agree they should have an ability to do damage. In my games I tend to give them a Psi sword but have it manifest as 'claws' (( same damage, mechanics ect))

That solves the problem with one simple addition.

[Killer Cyborg]

I never understood the psi-stalker. It has a whole slew of abilities that allow it to track a very specific type of prey, but once it's found its prey, it has no way to harm or survive being harmed by its prey.

Except...
-mega-damage armor and weapons
-SDC weapons that take advantage of a creature's vulnerability
-traps and attacks that can kill MDC creatures without inflicting mega-damage
-Psionic empathy with animals, allowing a psi-stalker to bond with or train a mega-damage animal as a hunting partner.

Also, there's the fact that most psychics and mages are not MDC creatures.

Even worse, even though it's a mutation in response to the high PPE levels of rifts earth, it doesn't gain any of the benefits that other creatures get when they are "improved" by the high PPE levels (natural MDC, supernatural strength and endurance, etc).

Thank God.
Too much of a good thing, and it's not special anymore- it's mundane.
There's too much MDC and supernatural PS as it is.

[Killer Cyborg]

So... they made them situational MD critter's themselves. In that they're human mutations.. that when fighting MD or Supernatural creatures, get a little MD themselves.

Right.
Except that (skipping over all the ,many, many ways that psi-stalkers could survive without ANY boost from their stats in the original book) the power boost they got STILL doesn't explain how they survive.
They need kill supernatural creatures (etc.) to survive, and they still can't do that without expensive high-tech gear.
If they'd at least gotten an offensive boost in power, they might be able to sneak up and dogpile supernatural baddies and kill it with their bare hands before it killed them.
Pure defense won't help them feed.

Indeed, but it does keep them alive longer to attempt to. lol I.E. "It doesn't solve the entire problem.. but it doesn't hurt!"

It hurts my head, actually.

Unless a psi-stalker is running around naked, or has his armor breached, the power isn't even going to come up.
If he's running around naked, all the power means is that the monsters have to chew longer before swallowing.
If he's got gear, then the power isn't likely to help anything- he'll already have MDC protection.

[flatline]

Even worse, even though it's a mutation in response to the high PPE levels of rifts earth, it doesn't gain any of the benefits that other creatures get when they are "improved" by the high PPE levels (natural MDC, supernatural strength and endurance, etc).

Thank God.
Too much of a good thing, and it's not special anymore- it's mundane.
There's too much MDC and supernatural PS as it is.

You would have hated playing in any of my old groups. We all hated the whole SDC vs MDC thing so much that we just always took MDC characters to not have to worry about it. SDC was strictly for NPCs. When Rifts first came out (before any real conversion rules), any character that rifted in from another setting (HU, Fantasy, N&SS) just got upgraded 1SDC->1MDC. That applied to any weapons and powers, too. It really sucked when you lost that 3D6MDC Katana you rifted in with or blew through the ammo you started with because it was irreplaceable.

We tried a couple low power campaigns where everyone started as a RMB (or similar) character, but it never stuck.

--flatline

[Pepsi Jedi]

So... they made them situational MD critter's themselves. In that they're human mutations.. that when fighting MD or Supernatural creatures, get a little MD themselves.

Right.
Except that (skipping over all the ,many, many ways that psi-stalkers could survive without ANY boost from their stats in the original book) the power boost they got STILL doesn't explain how they survive.
They need kill supernatural creatures (etc.) to survive, and they still can't do that without expensive high-tech gear.
If they'd at least gotten an offensive boost in power, they might be able to sneak up and dogpile supernatural baddies and kill it with their bare hands before it killed them.
Pure defense won't help them feed.

Indeed, but it does keep them alive longer to attempt to. lol I.E. "It doesn't solve the entire problem.. but it doesn't hurt!"

It hurts my head, actually.

Unless a psi-stalker is running around naked, or has his armor breached, the power isn't even going to come up.
If he's running around naked, all the power means is that the monsters have to chew longer before swallowing.
If he's got gear, then the power isn't likely to help anything- he'll already have MDC protection.

Well that's the thing. It's supposed to reflect the average every day psistalker that doesn't have the benifit of tens of thousands of credits worth of gear. You know.. Fred the Psistalker. Not the ultimate badass character. You know.. Just fred who has to get a meal every week. he might own a small md weapon or the like but no armor. Still he's a Psistalker and a hunter so the power lets fred, who can't afford the armor live in combat trying to get his meal. (It's also why I give them the psi claws. To allow them to actually do so))

Personally I always kinda saw them keeping some sort of magical something on hand. Now.. nto so much .. "Magical pigs in a pen to eat" but.. you know. SOMETHING on reserve.. because if you literaly have to hunt a magical or supernatural being every week... wow is your population going to be ultra low.

[flatline]

They don't need to kill it, do they? Isn't drawing blood sufficient for a psi-stalker to feed?

If there aren't any supernatural critters around to hunt, could they feed off of regular creatures (cows, cats, dogs, mice, etc)?

--flatline

[Killer Cyborg]

Unless a psi-stalker is running around naked, or has his armor breached, the power isn't even going to come up.
If he's running around naked, all the power means is that the monsters have to chew longer before swallowing.
If he's got gear, then the power isn't likely to help anything- he'll already have MDC protection.

Well that's the thing. It's supposed to reflect the average every day psistalker that doesn't have the benifit of tens of thousands of credits worth of gear. You know.. Fred the Psistalker.

Never heard of him.
Last I heard, all psi-stalkers were either Wild (with gear), or with the CS (with gear), or part of a Barbarian tribe (who STILL have MD gear).

If they're part of a tribe/pack, and they don't have gear, then somebody else can provide for them until they get their own gear.

Not the ultimate badass character. You know.. Just fred who has to get a meal every week. he might own a small md weapon or the like but no armor. Still he's a Psistalker and a hunter so the power lets fred, who can't afford the armor live in combat trying to get his meal.

If he has a MD weapon, or even if he doesn't, he can still get a meal without armor.
(Or he, like the rest of Rifts Earth, can die trying.)

Personally I always kinda saw them keeping some sort of magical something on hand. Now.. nto so much .. "Magical pigs in a pen to eat" but.. you know. SOMETHING on reserve.. because if you literaly have to hunt a magical or supernatural being every week... wow is your population going to be ultra low.

Psi-Stalkers can feed from psychics.
Dogs, horses, and other common animals are psychic.

[Killer Cyborg]

They don't need to kill it, do they? Isn't drawing blood sufficient for a psi-stalker to feed?

If there aren't any supernatural critters around to hunt, could they feed off of regular creatures (cows, cats, dogs, mice, etc)?

--flatline

Only the animals with psychic powers.
Which includes dogs, horses, and cats, officially. It might include some other animals that are close to humans, probably not cattle, but stuff that we'd keep traditionally as pets, close enough to bond with.

Also, psi-stalkers CAN feed from ley lines.
They just prefer not to.

[Killer Cyborg]

Even worse, even though it's a mutation in response to the high PPE levels of rifts earth, it doesn't gain any of the benefits that other creatures get when they are "improved" by the high PPE levels (natural MDC, supernatural strength and endurance, etc).

Thank God.
Too much of a good thing, and it's not special anymore- it's mundane.
There's too much MDC and supernatural PS as it is.

You would have hated playing in any of my old groups. We all hated the whole SDC vs MDC thing so much that we just always took MDC characters to not have to worry about it. SDC was strictly for NPCs. When Rifts first came out (before any real conversion rules), any character that rifted in from another setting (HU, Fantasy, N&SS) just got upgraded 1SDC->1MDC. That applied to any weapons and powers, too. It really sucked when you lost that 3D6MDC Katana you rifted in with or blew through the ammo you started with because it was irreplaceable.

We tried a couple low power campaigns where everyone started as a RMB (or similar) character, but it never stuck.

--flatline

Yeah... not my cup of tea.

[Mad Cow Milk]

It would have been easier to just say, "takes physical damage from supernatural creatures and creatures of magic as if it were SDC."

That way you dont have to think about conditional situations. According to RUE, a psi-stalker in hand to hand combat with a brodkil can take a JA-12 blast to the back of the head from the brodkil's sniper buddy just because he is fighting a supernatural creature. I don't think that was the intent of the power. The intent was what Pepsi Jedi said about survival in the early years of the mutation (and lack of MD armor in that time period).

Actually I think that is exactly what they were intending. A Psi-Stalker is already starting to drain the atmospheric energy their pray is producing allowing them to become minor MDC beings, so yeah weird situations happen.