Re: Black Steel Centipede???
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:12 pm
If there is it is a dragon or a god in ether PF:D&G or RCB2. Or it is in a Rifter.
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Rider wrote:Luckily damage capacity isn't everything. It's heavily possible for other characters to kill it, assuming they could avoid being damaged. Fung Shei guys who can tap into and amplify massive chi sources come to mind as guys who could take them.
For example: What if there simply arn't any massive chi sources around to tap?
Regularguy wrote:For example: What if there simply arn't any massive chi sources around to tap?
Hey, there's a source somewhere, right? So you discorporate to become one with the universe, acquire enough fuel to max out your Body Chi, and pulp the thing with one shot?
Discorporate resotres you to your maximum. No more no less. it may or may not be enough to one shot it depending on your chi reserves.
But hey, Body chi has always been rediculously broken.
Nekira Sudacne wrote:I'm not sure it's possible. assuming a decent PE score of 25 as base, and assuming your feng seui guy took a chi orented style, the most he'd have is about 200 or so. hard chi would max out around +400 damage. Not nearly enough to take down a black steel centapeid.
Rider wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:Rider wrote:Luckily damage capacity isn't everything. It's heavily possible for other characters to kill it, assuming they could avoid being damaged. Fung Shei guys who can tap into and amplify massive chi sources come to mind as guys who could take them.
Of course they're not impossible, but they're not really intended for casual games either.
For example: What if there simply arn't any massive chi sources around to tap? you don't always get to pick your battles.
In that case you run away and find one Assuming you can outrun the centipede...
TheWay wrote:Regularguy wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:I'm not sure it's possible. assuming a decent PE score of 25 as base, and assuming your feng seui guy took a chi orented style, the most he'd have is about 200 or so. hard chi would max out around +400 damage. Not nearly enough to take down a black steel centapeid.
I was thinking of a Tai Chi stylist: assume that 25 PE, if you want; add +15 to chi for taking Tai Chi; eventually double that 40 to 80, then double it again to 160, then double it again to 320, and then double it again to 640; if you've taken Chi Overcharge, double that to 1280, for to deal out a little over +2500 damage.
Now figure the guy's a Dedicated Martial Artist who pairs Tai Chi with Snake Style -- which means you increase the chi to 2560, and to 5120, and to 10240, and to 20480 -- for to deal out more than +40,000 damage. (Or, if we instead assume a lackluster PE of 10, "more than +20,000 damage.")
As GM I kill your character for power gaming and just plain ridiculus behavior
TheWay wrote:Regularguy wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:I'm not sure it's possible. assuming a decent PE score of 25 as base, and assuming your feng seui guy took a chi orented style, the most he'd have is about 200 or so. hard chi would max out around +400 damage. Not nearly enough to take down a black steel centapeid.
I was thinking of a Tai Chi stylist: assume that 25 PE, if you want; add +15 to chi for taking Tai Chi; eventually double that 40 to 80, then double it again to 160, then double it again to 320, and then double it again to 640; if you've taken Chi Overcharge, double that to 1280, for to deal out a little over +2500 damage.
Now figure the guy's a Dedicated Martial Artist who pairs Tai Chi with Snake Style -- which means you increase the chi to 2560, and to 5120, and to 10240, and to 20480 -- for to deal out more than +40,000 damage. (Or, if we instead assume a lackluster PE of 10, "more than +20,000 damage.")
As GM I kill your character for power gaming and just plain ridiculus behavior
TheWay wrote:Regularguy wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:I'm not sure it's possible. assuming a decent PE score of 25 as base, and assuming your feng seui guy took a chi orented style, the most he'd have is about 200 or so. hard chi would max out around +400 damage. Not nearly enough to take down a black steel centapeid.
I was thinking of a Tai Chi stylist: assume that 25 PE, if you want; add +15 to chi for taking Tai Chi; eventually double that 40 to 80, then double it again to 160, then double it again to 320, and then double it again to 640; if you've taken Chi Overcharge, double that to 1280, for to deal out a little over +2500 damage.
Now figure the guy's a Dedicated Martial Artist who pairs Tai Chi with Snake Style -- which means you increase the chi to 2560, and to 5120, and to 10240, and to 20480 -- for to deal out more than +40,000 damage. (Or, if we instead assume a lackluster PE of 10, "more than +20,000 damage.")
As GM I kill your character for power gaming and just plain ridiculus behavior
barna10 wrote:Where is the black steel centipede from?
AzathothXy wrote:barna10 wrote:Where is the black steel centipede from?
Mystic China.
TheWay wrote:Regularguy wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:I'm not sure it's possible. assuming a decent PE score of 25 as base, and assuming your feng seui guy took a chi orented style, the most he'd have is about 200 or so. hard chi would max out around +400 damage. Not nearly enough to take down a black steel centapeid.
I was thinking of a Tai Chi stylist: assume that 25 PE, if you want; add +15 to chi for taking Tai Chi; eventually double that 40 to 80, then double it again to 160, then double it again to 320, and then double it again to 640; if you've taken Chi Overcharge, double that to 1280, for to deal out a little over +2500 damage.
Now figure the guy's a Dedicated Martial Artist who pairs Tai Chi with Snake Style -- which means you increase the chi to 2560, and to 5120, and to 10240, and to 20480 -- for to deal out more than +40,000 damage. (Or, if we instead assume a lackluster PE of 10, "more than +20,000 damage.")
As GM I kill your character for power gaming and just plain ridiculus behavior
Trooper Jim wrote:Or you could just let him play his character and find creative ways to challenge him.
barna10 wrote:Trooper Jim wrote:Or you could just let him play his character and find creative ways to challenge him.
What would be the point? It's not like this is a roleplaying game or any...wait!
Tor wrote:I just realized, there's this chi magic spell that allows you to summon an infernal and have it do your bidding... and there isn't any exception made for the black steel centipede.
The only downside to that is: they're relatively intelligent, and like Demons and those Leopard assassins, they not only have the power to return to hell, but also the power to travel from hell to the real world.
So once the spell ends, an angry centipede might come back after you send him back and stomp you as vengeance for enslaving it.
That's probably why most chi mages stick to the infernals who don't have the power to come to the real world under their own power, like the dogs and monkeys and snakes.
The spirits on the other hand, don't have the power to go back to hell, so the problem with them is they can't obey the order to be sent back, and will remain around in the real world (possibly to cause trouble) once the spell ends.
Tor wrote:Hm, hard to tell if that overrides the spell or not. I kinda assumed that to mean under normal circumstances (when unenchanted).
Like in theory only the creator of a mummy/zombie/golem can control them, but if protection circles or whatever spells affect them (though I know they're limited) are used, they may be unable to complete their master's commands since they're controlled by the magic.
Hm... to be technical, I think the Yama Kings, much like the Overlords, ARE Infernals... so unless it says they're excepted... why should they be?Nightmask wrote:you can't command a Yama King because those pesky mortal magicks aren't ever going to rob them of their free will and ability to act as they see fit. Black Steel Centipedes are in the same class.
Gods aren't immune to mortal magic. They tend to resist it quite well due to awesome saving throws, and many mortals won't even try it due to knowing the repercussions once the spell ends, but it can happen.Nekira Sudacne wrote:Such beings, while not what you would really consider a god in their own right, are on the same level of being, and similarly are not subject to control through mortal magic. It takes a true god to bind such beings as lesser powers simply won't hold them.
A possibility, but Ensorcel is pretty expensive for its duration. I guess it'd be worth it for something as powerful as the Centipedes and if anyone had the PPE from people dying all the time, it'd be the Yama Kings...Nekira Sudacne wrote:Also given how critical their control is to their power base, I figured that the yama kings had done something similar to encorcell for mortal shifters: Simultaniously making it near-impossible for them to resist your magical influence while giving them immunity to anyone else controling them.
Assuming the Yama Kings have chi magic, we might assume they constantly are casting this very spell on the Centipedes.Nekira Sudacne wrote:It may be possible in theory to take control of a Black Steel Centipeid, but you would have to find a way to break the Yama kings control first, and given that that's devine level power controling them, you'd need to also have godlike power to even make the attempt.
Tor wrote:Hm... to be technical, I think the Yama Kings, much like the Overlords, ARE Infernals... so unless it says they're excepted... why should they be?Nightmask wrote:you can't command a Yama King because those pesky mortal magicks aren't ever going to rob them of their free will and ability to act as they see fit. Black Steel Centipedes are in the same class.
Gods aren't immune to mortal magic. They tend to resist it quite well due to awesome saving throws, and many mortals won't even try it due to knowing the repercussions once the spell ends, but it can happen.Nekira Sudacne wrote:Such beings, while not what you would really consider a god in their own right, are on the same level of being, and similarly are not subject to control through mortal magic. It takes a true god to bind such beings as lesser powers simply won't hold them.
A possibility, but Ensorcel is pretty expensive for its duration. I guess it'd be worth it for something as powerful as the Centipedes and if anyone had the PPE from people dying all the time, it'd be the Yama Kings...Nekira Sudacne wrote:Also given how critical their control is to their power base, I figured that the yama kings had done something similar to encorcell for mortal shifters: Simultaniously making it near-impossible for them to resist your magical influence while giving them immunity to anyone else controling them.
It does beg the question about whether or not Ensorcel would protect a minion from something that lacks a savings throw though. I'll need to rerear FoM again.
Assuming the Yama Kings have chi magic, we might assume they constantly are casting this very spell on the Centipedes.Nekira Sudacne wrote:It may be possible in theory to take control of a Black Steel Centipeid, but you would have to find a way to break the Yama kings control first, and given that that's devine level power controling them, you'd need to also have godlike power to even make the attempt.
This begs the question of what happens when someone casts a control spell on something already subject to a control spell. I don't know if Palladium has rules on that.
Why's that? We should keep in mind that a Yama King's been overthrown by a lowly Overlord before. I expect they're at most, stronger than Overlords as Overlords are to normal Infernals (or perhaps just to Horned Ushers).Nekira Sudacne wrote:They may be infernals only insofar as as zeus can be considered human.
Are they referred to as deities in MC? Would being a deity make one any less an Infernal?Nekira Sudacne wrote:I'm not saying that in the sense they are immune to magic, rather there's no spell "Summon and control deity" or "control/enslave deity".
It's not implied that the Kings are that much stronger than other Infernals than the Lords are to other deevils/demons. At least 1 King's been overthrown by a lesser Infernal. Has this ever happened in the history of Dyval/Hades? At most there only seems to be a vague reference to potentially new Lords being created in the midst of the war if they manage to get enough worshippers without being squashed.Nekira Sudacne wrote:Put it another way: it's made quite clear that a demon summoning circle can't summon the demon lords, so why should summon infernal summon infernal lords? it's not spelled out as explicitly but there's such a thing as logic and pattern recognition.
Yeah the extended Duration's not really the main problem, I'm sure they'd be capable of getting such a variant. Although there's apparently only 1 of the Centipedes active right now, so maybe only that one would be Ensorcel'd and the others would be locked up?Nekira Sudacne wrote:I said "Something like Ensorcel", not "Just use Ensorcel". presumably they would craft some custom magic with a longer term duration at the least.Ensorcel is pretty expensive for its duration. I guess it'd be worth it for something as powerful as the Centipedes and if anyone had the PPE from people dying all the time, it'd be the Yama Kings...It does beg the question about whether or not Ensorcel would protect a minion from something that lacks a savings throw though. I'll need to rerear FoM again.
I wonder if we could do some variant on a battle of wills that summones have except it's between the MEs of the two mages, and somehow factor in spell strength...Nekira Sudacne wrote:Now that you mention it...I don't either.
Tor wrote:Hm well, being deities in Rifts China doesn't mean they are in N&SS though Even putting them in the same continuity (which can be done) there's centuries separating the eras, and a non-deity can become a deity during such a span of time (happened to Herakles and She Who Walks The Circle).
I'm only looking at the MC stats for the chi magic, if this spell exists in one of the RC books it might even be worded differently and include exceptions for Yamas/Caterpillars.
Tor wrote:Hm well, being deities in Rifts China doesn't mean they are in N&SS though Even putting them in the same continuity (which can be done) there's centuries separating the eras, and a non-deity can become a deity during such a span of time (happened to Herakles and She Who Walks The Circle).
I'm only looking at the MC stats for the chi magic, if this spell exists in one of the RC books it might even be worded differently and include exceptions for Yamas/Caterpillars.
MC never specified the Yama Kings as gods. It's implied deity status about the Jade Emperor (Enlightened Immortals are mentioned as turning down the position of a deity if they reject the Alabaster Elephant) but nowhere in MC do I recall the Yama Kings being labelled gods/deities.Nightmask wrote:you have to take into account that the writers especially back when these books came out couldn't imagine a player thinking it could take control over a god just by casting a piddly mortal spell to explicitly note 'no you can't go commanding Yama Kings or Black Steel Centipedes with these spells'.
I'm arguing that they're different NPCs, or if they're somehow the same character, they're that character are different stages in their lives.Nekira Sudacne wrote:You have to realize your nitpicking to an absurd degree here. "Well, this one book says they're gods, but this other book dosn't explictly say so, so maybe as of this book they arn't. Honestly, if that's your argument, I'm finished here.
People shouldn't be obligated to win arguments to convince people to not assume impure motives for their arguingNekira Sudacne wrote:My point is made, you seem to be arguing for it's own sake. If not, please explain exactly what point you are trying to convince me of.
Why not? Pantheons has a bunch of non-god Odins too. NPCs have gone from being mere Godlings in PRPG to full gods in D&G. I think Aco's Juggernaught went from being Miscreant to Unprincipled. We can treat that as either a character transformation or different characters who share the same name.Nekira Sudacne wrote:It's true that Mystic China never explicitly calls them gods, but if they mentioned Odin, I wouldn't need it to explictly call him a god even if I didn't have Pantheons of the Megaverse to tell me.