The "Did you know" thread .. Rifts edition !!

[Lenwen]

I'll start it off .. an nothing is off limits !! (well within board rules that is hehe)

1) - Did you know .. at the START of the Coalitions Actual "invasion" The CS had the following ..
a- 320,000 : Coalition Soilders.
b- 100,000 : Dogboys.
c- 316,000 : Skelebots.
d- 308,000 : Coalition Soilders (Holmes forces)
---------------
Total : 1,134,000 Combat units Total ..

Tolkeen had ..
a- 195,000 Tolkeen Soilders . (this is the total from everything to include their airforce)

The Coalition had 939,000 more combat units then Tolkeen at the start of the actual invasion of Tolkeen .
(according to the numbers presented in Final seige pgs 12-14 for coalition numbers and pg40-43 for Tolkeen forces.

Nearly 1 million MORE combat units then Tolkeen .. Thats CRAZY !!

[TechnoGothic]

Was it 1/2 or 1/3 of the CS forces were fighting the FQ forces in the Northeast ?
So the CS was not fighting Tolkeen with everything they had anyways.
Even if at HALF, that insane numbers.

Post-Apoc. Setting my butt. They recovered and more...

[Damian Magecraft]

Was it 1/2 or 1/3 of the CS forces were fighting the FQ forces in the Northeast ?
So the CS was not fighting Tolkeen with everything they had anyways.
Even if at HALF, that insane numbers.

Post-Apoc. Setting my butt. They recovered and more...

By definition Rifts is a post apocalyptic setting.
Was there an Apocalypse in the past of the setting? yes.
hence the term Post (meaning after) apocalypse.

[Lenwen]

Was it 1/2 or 1/3 of the CS forces were fighting the FQ forces in the Northeast ?
So the CS was not fighting Tolkeen with everything they had anyways.
Even if at HALF, that insane numbers.

Post-Apoc. Setting my butt. They recovered and more...

Actually TG ..

That was everything the CS had .. as Final Seige is set AFTER .. the CS and FQ have realigned their alliance .. This was not "During" or "before" ... but "After" .. they re allyed themselves ..

We know this because of these particular sentences in Final Siege.

The operations leaders wonder if they should wait for more troops coming from Free Quebec. CS high command has left that decidsion to the Generals on site. It would only take another week or two .

Also we know that those were not Coalition soilders due to this sentence in Coalition War Machine.

Coalition troops are prepared to assemble at a moments notice and deploy anywhere in North America in 48 hrs.

Which tells us the aformentioned book quote was in fact talking about Free Qubec soilders.

So as I've clearly shown .. the troops I've shown at the onset of the final siege .. were in fact the total of all Soilders in the CS military even those from the Free Quebec fronts ..


....EDIT....
I was in fact wrong. the Troops that the Generals "could or not wait for" as per the quote of the book I made up above were in fact 60-70'000 Coalition troops. From the Free Quebec front line. It would take them another week or two to get back to the Tolkeen front lines from Free Quebec as per the book.

My apologies for any mis-leading I may have unintentionally done by saying they were FQ forces an not CS forces.

[Dustin Fireblade]

So as I've clearly shown .. the troops I've shown at the onset of the final siege .. were in fact the total of all Soilders in the CS military even those from the Free Quebec fronts ..

Don't be silly. Trying to imply that every soldier in the entire CS was in Minnesota is like saying that every single soldier in the US was in Iraq in 2004 at the same time. That is clearly false, and is the case here as well.

You yourself even quoted that additional troops were still making their way home from Quebec (and tried to imply that the CS Rapid Deployment Force somehow applies to the entire CS by quoting that line from the CWC - as again it says quite clearly that it will take them a week or two to get from the Quebec front to the Tolkeen front. Not the 48 hours that the RDF would take if they were given the order).


It's also ludicrous to think that the CS would simply send every single soldier they had to the Tolkeen front, leaving their borders open.


So no, it was not "all soldiers in the CS military" it was just the size of the invasion force.

[Lenwen]

So as I've clearly shown .. the troops I've shown at the onset of the final siege .. were in fact the total of all Soilders in the CS military even those from the Free Quebec fronts ..

Don't be silly. Trying to imply that every soldier in the entire CS was in Minnesota is like saying that every single soldier in the US was in Iraq in 2004 at the same time. That is clearly false, and is the case here as well.

You yourself even quoted that additional troops were still making their way home from Quebec (and tried to imply that the CS Rapid Deployment Force somehow applies to the entire CS by quoting that line from the CWC - as again it says quite clearly that it will take them a week or two to get from the Quebec front to the Tolkeen front. Not the 48 hours that the RDF would take if they were given the order).


It's also ludicrous to think that the CS would simply send every single soldier they had to the Tolkeen front, leaving their borders open.


So no, it was not "all soldiers in the CS military" it was just the size of the invasion force.

I do apologize if that is how it came out. It was not my intent to say or even hint that it was every single Soilder in the CS military. It was not. It is what is listed in the Final siege book. And that by no means is the entire cs military. (I'd hazard a guess that it would represent at LEAST .. a good 75-80% of the entire CS military)

And I had seriously thought with the way alotta people post on the threads that the RDF "48hrs anywhere in North America" line was equatable to the entire CS military .

If I am wrong in that train of thought I again apologize. I will reread the books an adjust accordingly . But the hard numbers I already posted about were in fact thee numbers for the CS military total up in Minnisota at the start of the actual Siege itself.

I will be back in a bit after further reading.

[Dustin Fireblade]

And I had seriously thought with the way alotta people post on the threads that the RDF "48hrs anywhere in North America" line was equatable to the entire CS military .

I'm not aware of that line of thinking myself, but then I don't follow very many threads around here anymore.

But the hard numbers I already posted about were in fact thee numbers for the CS military total up in Minnisota at the start of the actual Siege itself

Agreed.

[Lenwen]

And I had seriously thought with the way alotta people post on the threads that the RDF "48hrs anywhere in North America" line was equatable to the entire CS military .

I'm not aware of that line of thinking myself, but then I don't follow very many threads around here anymore.

But the hard numbers I already posted about were in fact thee numbers for the CS military total up in Minnisota at the start of the actual Siege itself

Agreed.

My post above was edited for the new information tanks Dustin.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I been thinking people really dont know how to relate time and distance when travelling in rifts

because the coaliton could be anywhere with North america in a least of 4 hours

[Lenwen]

I been thinking people really dont know how to relate time and distance when travelling in rifts

because the coaliton could be anywhere with North america in a least of 4 hours

Well thats what I thought too ..

But canon makes me question that logic ..

RDF's (thee fastest of the fast in CS troop movement) takes 48 hrs .. to get anywhere on the continental North America.

The statement from Final Siege clearly indicates it will take CS forces (60-70,000 troops) a week or two .. for them to leave Free Quebec .. and reach the Tolkeen theater of battle ..

Thats not fast .. by any metric you take an measure it by ..

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I been thinking people really dont know how to relate time and distance when travelling in rifts

because the coaliton could be anywhere with North america in a least of 4 hours

Well thats what I thought too ..

But canon makes me question that logic ..

RDF's (thee fastest of the fast in CS troop movement) takes 48 hrs .. to get anywhere on the continental North America.

The statement from Final Siege clearly indicates it will take CS forces (60-70,000 troops) a week or two .. for them to leave Free Quebec .. and reach the Tolkeen theater of battle ..

Thats not fast .. by any metric you take an measure it by ..

i know, i made the that point about holmes' unseen travel in bug country for a couple of months
but then again its palladium books, i dont think those guys go on road trips

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Tolkeen had ..
a- 195,000 Tolkeen Soilders . (this is the total from everything to include their airforce)

Do the Tolkeen numbers include the various Mercenary forces?

Not being argumentative, just wondering. I don't have my books handy.

~ Josh

[Lenwen]

Tolkeen had ..
a- 195,000 Tolkeen Soilders . (this is the total from everything to include their airforce)

Do the Tolkeen numbers include the various Mercenary forces?

Not being argumentative, just wondering. I don't have my books handy.

~ Josh

No sorry only the Coalition military.

I am unable to find a "hard" number of Mercenary forces. Thus no canon numbers .. I excluded them . (Even tho everyone knows there were tens of thousands there for the CS)

I went with strickly Coalition trained/built Military units.

[Lenwen]

I been thinking people really dont know how to relate time and distance when travelling in rifts

because the coaliton could be anywhere with North america in a least of 4 hours

Well thats what I thought too ..

But canon makes me question that logic ..

RDF's (thee fastest of the fast in CS troop movement) takes 48 hrs .. to get anywhere on the continental North America.

The statement from Final Siege clearly indicates it will take CS forces (60-70,000 troops) a week or two .. for them to leave Free Quebec .. and reach the Tolkeen theater of battle ..

Thats not fast .. by any metric you take an measure it by ..

i know, i made the that point about holmes' unseen travel in bug country for a couple of months
but then again its palladium books, i dont think those guys go on road trips

So it would seem a trip of roughly 1200ish miles for the CS military takes 1-2 weeks to reach.. Free Quebec to Tolkeen is roughly 1200ish miles if you take both known positions an place them on Google earth .. you come out with just over 1100 miles ..

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Tolkeen had ..
a- 195,000 Tolkeen Soilders . (this is the total from everything to include their airforce)

Do the Tolkeen numbers include the various Mercenary forces?

Not being argumentative, just wondering. I don't have my books handy.

~ Josh

No sorry only the Coalition military.

I am unable to find a "hard" number of Mercenary forces. Thus no canon numbers .. I excluded them . (Even tho everyone knows there were tens of thousands there for the CS)

I went with strickly Coalition trained/built Military units.

I meant Mercenaries siding/hired by Tolkeen (I can see how I wasn't clear enough though, my apologies).

~ Josh

[Lenwen]

Tolkeen had ..
a- 195,000 Tolkeen Soilders . (this is the total from everything to include their airforce)

Do the Tolkeen numbers include the various Mercenary forces?

Not being argumentative, just wondering. I don't have my books handy.

~ Josh

No sorry only the Coalition military.

I am unable to find a "hard" number of Mercenary forces. Thus no canon numbers .. I excluded them . (Even tho everyone knows there were tens of thousands there for the CS)

I went with strickly Coalition trained/built Military units.

I meant Mercenaries siding/hired by Tolkeen (I can see how I wasn't clear enough though, my apologies).

~ Josh

Aye the numbers are from Final Siege. Wether or not the armies include the mercenaries are included in the hard numbers or not is not clear. Either way I posted the hard numbers for the total's of each sides military strength at the start of the actual Siege itself.

[Lenwen]

Did you know ..

"The Vanguard" has actively recruited outside members in it past ? Which means it is very probable .. their organization is known more so outside of the CS .. then in the CS .

[cornholioprime]

I been thinking people really dont know how to relate time and distance when travelling in rifts

because the coaliton could be anywhere with North america in a least of 4 hours

Well thats what I thought too ..

But canon makes me question that logic ..

RDF's (thee fastest of the fast in CS troop movement) takes 48 hrs .. to get anywhere on the continental North America.

The statement from Final Siege clearly indicates it will take CS forces (60-70,000 troops) a week or two .. for them to leave Free Quebec .. and reach the Tolkeen theater of battle ..

Thats not fast .. by any metric you take an measure it by ..

Folks...please remember that a large portion of the Armed Forces typically won't ALL be able to ride Troop Transports to get to where they are going. A great many of them are going to have to walk a significant portion of the distance.


(When I was still in the Marines, we did about 15-20 miles, or whatever it was to get from one side of the massive Camp Pendleton base to the other side; and I think that we did it in about 3 or 4 hours or so, walking at a leisurely pace. By the time that I got out, we heard rumors that the Commandant was going to re-institute yearly Forced Marches in full gear for about the same distance, for all Marines, to better ensure individual troop fitness and readiness.)

[Lenwen]

Thats not fast .. by any metric you take an measure it by ..

Folks...please remember that a large portion of the Armed Forces typically won't ALL be able to ride Troop Transports to get to where they are going. A great many of them are going to have to walk a significant portion of the distance.

I guess this is canon proof that the Coalition does in fact not have enough Death Head Transports .. to move all of their troops ..

And there in lies the problem for "them" (by them I mean the Coalition) .. to move such a large Force ..

(When I was still in the Marines, we did about 15-20 miles, or whatever it was to get from one side of the massive Camp Pendleton base to the other side; and I think that we did it in about 3 or 4 hours or so, walking at a leisurely pace. By the time that I got out, we heard rumors that the Commandant was going to re-institute yearly Forced Marches in full gear for about the same distance, for all Marines, to better ensure individual troop fitness and readiness.)

When I was in the 618th .. in the 82'nd we had 20 mile ruck runs about once a month. hehe

[Lenwen]

Reading up a lil .. Did you know ..

Magic users .. are not as harrassed in the "Burbs" as much as Deebee's ?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I been thinking people really dont know how to relate time and distance when travelling in rifts

because the coaliton could be anywhere with North america in a least of 4 hours

Well thats what I thought too ..

But canon makes me question that logic ..

RDF's (thee fastest of the fast in CS troop movement) takes 48 hrs .. to get anywhere on the continental North America.

The statement from Final Siege clearly indicates it will take CS forces (60-70,000 troops) a week or two .. for them to leave Free Quebec .. and reach the Tolkeen theater of battle ..

Thats not fast .. by any metric you take an measure it by ..

Folks...please remember that a large portion of the Armed Forces typically won't ALL be able to ride Troop Transports to get to where they are going. A great many of them are going to have to walk a significant portion of the distance.

All I'm saying is the Coalition could be anywhere within North america in 4 hours with a sizeable force

[Lenwen]

I been thinking people really dont know how to relate time and distance when travelling in rifts

because the coaliton could be anywhere with North america in a least of 4 hours

Well thats what I thought too ..

But canon makes me question that logic ..

RDF's (thee fastest of the fast in CS troop movement) takes 48 hrs .. to get anywhere on the continental North America.

The statement from Final Siege clearly indicates it will take CS forces (60-70,000 troops) a week or two .. for them to leave Free Quebec .. and reach the Tolkeen theater of battle ..

Thats not fast .. by any metric you take an measure it by ..

Folks...please remember that a large portion of the Armed Forces typically won't ALL be able to ride Troop Transports to get to where they are going. A great many of them are going to have to walk a significant portion of the distance.

All I'm saying is the Coalition could be anywhere within North america in 4 hours with a sizeable force

Actually ... hate to say it but the fastest the CS can be anywhere in the North American continent .. (canonly speaking) is 48 hrs .. That is canon .. where did you get the 4 hrs information from ?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I been thinking people really dont know how to relate time and distance when travelling in rifts

because the coaliton could be anywhere with North america in a least of 4 hours

Well thats what I thought too ..

But canon makes me question that logic ..

RDF's (thee fastest of the fast in CS troop movement) takes 48 hrs .. to get anywhere on the continental North America.

The statement from Final Siege clearly indicates it will take CS forces (60-70,000 troops) a week or two .. for them to leave Free Quebec .. and reach the Tolkeen theater of battle ..

Thats not fast .. by any metric you take an measure it by ..

Folks...please remember that a large portion of the Armed Forces typically won't ALL be able to ride Troop Transports to get to where they are going. A great many of them are going to have to walk a significant portion of the distance.

All I'm saying is the Coalition could be anywhere within North america in 4 hours with a sizeable force

Actually ... hate to say it but the fastest the CS can be anywhere in the North American continent .. (canonly speaking) is 48 hrs .. That is canon .. where did you get the 4 hrs information from ?

its may be canon but PB has never been good with time and travel, modern flight time from chicago to each coast is 1:30 to 3:30 hours, so anything past 24 hours is wasting time

[Giant2005]

You do realize there is no way that the Coalition has enough jet aircraft to transport all of their troops right?
I doubt they have enough land transports for that even, most of them will be on foot.

[Mack]

I been thinking people really dont know how to relate time and distance when travelling in rifts

because the coaliton could be anywhere with North america in a least of 4 hours

Well thats what I thought too ..

But canon makes me question that logic ..

RDF's (thee fastest of the fast in CS troop movement) takes 48 hrs .. to get anywhere on the continental North America.

The statement from Final Siege clearly indicates it will take CS forces (60-70,000 troops) a week or two .. for them to leave Free Quebec .. and reach the Tolkeen theater of battle ..

Thats not fast .. by any metric you take an measure it by ..

Folks...please remember that a large portion of the Armed Forces typically won't ALL be able to ride Troop Transports to get to where they are going. A great many of them are going to have to walk a significant portion of the distance.

All I'm saying is the Coalition could be anywhere within North america in 4 hours with a sizeable force

Actually ... hate to say it but the fastest the CS can be anywhere in the North American continent .. (canonly speaking) is 48 hrs .. That is canon .. where did you get the 4 hrs information from ?

You guys are talking past each other.

Mech-Viper didn't say the RDF. He said "a sizeable force." Which he probably means however much one can cram into a few Death Heads.

Also, the canon is "within 48 hours," which means it's most often faster. It does not say 'no sooner than 48 hours.' Keep in mind that includes packing, loading, transporting, and unloading 23,000 troops with no advance warning. Mech-Viper is (most likely) referring to the transporation only.

[Lenwen]

You guys are talking past each other.

Mech-Viper didn't say the RDF. He said "a sizeable force." Which he probably means however much one can cram into a few Death Heads.

Also, the canon is "within 48 hours," which means it's most often faster. It does not say 'no sooner than 48 hours.' Keep in mind that includes packing, loading, transporting, and unloading 23,000 troops with no advance warning. Mech-Viper is (most likely) referring to the transporation only.

The Coalition's RDF is by the book their "fastest" "sizable" force which can be projected anywhere in the continental united States .
I play this passage in particular as .. the furthest reaches of the North American soil can be reached in 48hrs .. anything closer obviously does not take 48 hrs to reach.

I personally do not read things into the text of the books. And from person to person .. "A Sizeable force" is quite different .. and i do agree with you about the packing, loading, transportation of and unloading of troops time being included in the 48 hr time frame given. That should be logically deduced ..

[Mech-Viper Prime]

You do realize there is no way that the Coalition has enough jet aircraft to transport all of their troops right?
I doubt they have enough land transports for that even, most of them will be on foot.

never said all,
just think about how troops and equipment could be moved with 2 death head transport and 2 sky lifter in a 10 hours

[Lenwen]

You do realize there is no way that the Coalition has enough jet aircraft to transport all of their troops right?
I doubt they have enough land transports for that even, most of them will be on foot.

never said all,
just think about how troops and equipment could be moved with 2 death head transport and 2 sky lifter in a 10 hours

What types of distances are we talking ?

Thats the key element that has not been stated in your 2 death head transports and 2 sky lifter scenario .. and are we talking strickly troops or are we talking about ground troops + bots + skelebots + tanks .. ect .. ect ..

Two things need to be addressed before we can get a logical answer.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

You do realize there is no way that the Coalition has enough jet aircraft to transport all of their troops right?
I doubt they have enough land transports for that even, most of them will be on foot.

never said all,
just think about how troops and equipment could be moved with 2 death head transport and 2 sky lifter in a 10 hours

What types of distances are we talking ?

Thats the key element that has not been stated in your 2 death head transports and 2 sky lifter scenario .. and are we talking strickly troops or are we talking about ground troops + bots + skelebots + tanks .. ect .. ect ..

Two things need to be addressed before we can get a logical answer.

lets see CS has found a old US government Secret Base in Utah and the force(from Chi-town region) is a mixture to established a base of operation until a research team/Control and commander center in the Fire Storm arrives

[Lenwen]

lets see CS has found a old US government Secret Base in Utah and the force(from Chi-town region) is a mixture to established a base of operation until a research team/Control and commander center in the Fire Storm arrives

Ok I guess I will take liberties with the "mixture" then.

And I will need to know which part of Utah ? Utah is pretty big .. it could be just across the boarder of Utah .. or it could be on the far side of Utah which would add hrs .. to the overal journey .

With this type of scenario .. we need to have specific locations. If you want generals then north east, north central, north west .. ect ..ect .. will suffice.

The distance (closest) from Illinois to Utah is 1200+ miles . If we are talking about far side of Illinois (which we are) and the far side of Utah .. then add another

Peoria Illinois to St George Utah is 1500 miles .. that is quite an addition to the 1200 miles .

[Mech-Viper Prime]

lets see CS has found a old US government Secret Base in Utah and the force(from Chi-town region) is a mixture to established a base of operation until a research team/Control and commander center in the Fire Storm arrives

Ok I guess I will take liberties with the "mixture" then.

And I will need to know which part of Utah ? Utah is pretty big .. it could be just across the boarder of Utah .. or it could be on the far side of Utah which would add hrs .. to the overal journey .

With this type of scenario .. we need to have specific locations. If you want generals then north east, north central, north west .. ect ..ect .. will suffice.

lets just say center utah

[Lenwen]

lets see CS has found a old US government Secret Base in Utah and the force(from Chi-town region) is a mixture to established a base of operation until a research team/Control and commander center in the Fire Storm arrives

Ok I guess I will take liberties with the "mixture" then.

And I will need to know which part of Utah ? Utah is pretty big .. it could be just across the boarder of Utah .. or it could be on the far side of Utah which would add hrs .. to the overal journey .

With this type of scenario .. we need to have specific locations. If you want generals then north east, north central, north west .. ect ..ect .. will suffice.

lets just say center utah

So then it is 1466 miles (google earth closes town to current known position of Chi-Town to middle of Utah)

Give me a few .. I'll do this cause now I am curious as well..

[Mech-Viper Prime]

modern flight time from Chicago to salt lake city is 1 1/2 hours

[Lenwen]

modern flight time from Chicago to salt lake city is 1 1/2 hours

Does not matter what modern flight time is .. due the the DHT's speed being listed .. as is the Sky lifter's ..

You will inherantly have more DHT deliveries then Sky Lifters due to the faster spead of the DHT's ..

[Lenwen]

2 DHT's (sped 670) can get 4 trips each in 10 hrs (8hrs each).. at a distance of 1466 miles .

That would be 8 total payloads of the DHT's which brings us 3,072 Troops and 8 Spider-Skull Walkers.

And for the 2 Sky lifters . (I took the liberty of the actual payloads) Which are slower you get 2 trips each, which is 4 total trips at a distance of 1466 miles.
First Trip = 40 Hellfires .
Second Trip = 12 Ground APC's.
Third Trip = 12 Spider-Skull Walkers.
Fourth trip = 80 warbirds.

That is the size of the force you could put into theater in 10 hr .. at a distance of 1,466 miles .
3,072 troops.
80 Warbirds.
40 Hellfires.
20 Spider-Skull Walkers.
12 APC's (Plus thier crews)

Rather decent array of mix if you ask me. The Troops are straight forward as for base protection and force projection, Warbirds give you aireal superiority , APC's (and thier crew's) add fast mobility with a little firepower, Spider Walkers add artillary , Hellfires add long range missle attacks (far range artilery).

Is this what you expected for a "sizeable" force?

....EDIT....
This does not include the time it takes to load or unload, I simply gave you the absolute most of everything not taking the time needed for loading/unloading in an effort to put more military units into theater.

If we actually take the time to load and unload were prolly cutting the above numbers in half.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

modern flight time from Chicago to salt lake city is 1 1/2 hours

Does not matter what modern flight time is .. due the the DHT's speed being listed .. as is the Sky lifter's ..

You will inherantly have more DHT deliveries then Sky Lifters due to the faster spead of the DHT's ..

At the Sky Lifter top speed its 3 hours and 23 minutes flight time

[Mech-Viper Prime]

2 DHT's (sped 670) can get 4 trips each in 10 hrs (8hrs each).. at a distance of 1466 miles .

That would be 8 total payloads of the DHT's which brings us 3,072 Troops and 8 Spider-Skull Walkers.

And for the 2 Sky lifters . (I took the liberty of the actual payloads) Which are slower you get 2 trips each, which is 4 total trips at a distance of 1466 miles.
First Trip = 40 Hellfires .
Second Trip = 12 Ground APC's.
Third Trip = 12 Spider-Skull Walkers.
Fourth trip = 80 warbirds.

That is the size of the force you could put into theater in 10 hr .. at a distance of 1,466 miles .
3,072 troops.
80 Warbirds.
40 Hellfires.
20 Spider-Skull Walkers.
12 APC's (Plus thier crews)

Rather decent array of mix if you ask me. The Troops are straight forward as for base protection and force projection, Warbirds give you aireal superiority , APC's (and thier crew's) add fast mobility with a little firepower, Spider Walkers add artillary , Hellfires add long range missle attacks (far range artilery).

Is this what you expected for a "sizeable" force?

....EDIT....
This does not include the time it takes to load or unload, I simply gave you the absolute most of everything not taking the time needed for loading/unloading in an effort to put more military units into theater.

If we actually take the time to load and unload were prolly cutting the above numbers in half.

not really the loading could be prepped the day before and the op starting at 0600 chitown time
along with 500 super samas 1/2 going full speed as advanced scouts and securing the landing zone and the other half going with the convoy as air security. still puts boots on the ground within 4 hours and 250 super samas as the main fire power until heavy troops come in

[Prince Artemis]

For those figuring out the transport times, have any of you considered that the CS likely avoid transporting troops over or arround ley lines? I highly doubt they'd risk losing most of their troops and damaging their equipement in the chance of a ley line storm which makes things drop out of the sky. To maintain speed your also looking at more of a arc than higher degree turns with death heads since inertial dampeners are NOT coalition tech...

Anyway, continuing with the original purpose of the tread, did you know that Joseph Prosek the first had a d-bee or mage lover during the original war on magic?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

For those figuring out the transport times, have any of you considered that the CS likely avoid transporting troops over or arround ley lines? I highly doubt they'd risk losing most of their troops and damaging their equipement in the chance of a ley line storm which makes things drop out of the sky. To maintain speed your also looking at more of a arc than higher degree turns with death heads since inertial dampeners are NOT coalition tech...

Anyway, continuing with the original purpose of the tread, did you know that Joseph Prosek the first had a d-bee or mage lover during the original war on magic?

and how far doing the ley lines reach to the sky?

and yes , but its a rumor

[Hystrix]

I'll start it off .. an nothing is off limits !! (well within board rules that is hehe)

1) - Did you know .. at the START of the Coalitions Actual "invasion" The CS had the following ..
a- 320,000 : Coalition Soilders.
b- 100,000 : Dogboys.
c- 316,000 : Skelebots.
d- 308,000 : Coalition Soilders (Holmes forces)
---------------
Total : 1,134,000 Combat units Total ..

Tolkeen had ..
a- 195,000 Tolkeen Soilders . (this is the total from everything to include their airforce)

The Coalition had 939,000 more combat units then Tolkeen at the start of the actual invasion of Tolkeen .
(according to the numbers presented in Final seige pgs 12-14 for coalition numbers and pg40-43 for Tolkeen forces.

Nearly 1 million MORE combat units then Tolkeen .. Thats CRAZY !!

Ok, I'm a late commer to this.

Your CS numbers a fairly accurate.

However. I did the math from SoT 6 and Tolkeen had over 285,000 troops just at the city of Tolkeen. That dosn't include ther defenders at Freehold, or Magestock (we are not given exect numbers, but we know there were some defenders at these). It also dosn't include defenders left in the Barrens, or elsewere in the state. We know towns like New Wilmer had around 7 or 8 thousand troops. Those add up. Also remember that Tolkeen lost 53% of it's fighting force at the Sorcerer's Revenge. Meaning that there army could have been nearly 600,000 at Tolkeen before that!

Also, there would be additional summoned creatures during the final seige. They had nearly 1,000 shifters, and over 800 necromancers who could be force multipliers.

Also there were tens of thousands of Iron Juggernauts, as well as a few thousand Elementals, and around 370 Dragons (37 were adults). Those are force multipliers as well. One Iron Juggernaugt out classes most heavy roos that the CS has. So the CS numbers advantage wasn't as good as all that.

All in all, the CS might have outnumbered Tolkeen 3 to 1... just sayin'

[Dustin Fireblade]

In 68 PA, the CS was able to mobilize and deploy their entire 4th Army (presumably the Chi-Town area) to secure the Lone Star Complex.

In 12 hours.

[Lenwen]

All in all, the CS might have outnumbered Tolkeen 3 to 1... just sayin'

Are you talking about thee actual final siege of Tolkeen ? Or perhaps earlier ?

Could you clerify this ?

[Hystrix]

All in all, the CS might have outnumbered Tolkeen 3 to 1... just sayin'

Are you talking about thee actual final siege of Tolkeen ? Or perhaps earlier ?

Could you clerify this ?

Actuall final seige.

285,000 troops in the city of Tolkeen alone (adding up the 6 Armies in Tolkeen). I figure 100,000 (estimated) defenders left over in Freehold, Magstock, the Barrens and the rest of the five Baronies. 385,000 total (estimate).

That's 1 Tolkeenite to 2.95 CS Soldiers. Dose not include summoning by the 1000+ shifters and Animated Dead by the 880 Necros. Nor dose it take into account the fact the over 50,000 of Tolkeens numbers are Iron Juggernauts. I'm not saying the CS didn't have numbers, but it was a tough fight regaurdless...

[Lenwen]

All in all, the CS might have outnumbered Tolkeen 3 to 1... just sayin'

Are you talking about thee actual final siege of Tolkeen ? Or perhaps earlier ?

Could you clerify this ?

Actuall final seige.

285,000 troops in the city of Tolkeen alone (adding up the 6 Armies in Tolkeen). I figure 100,000 (estimated) defenders left over in Freehold, Magstock, the Barrens and the rest of the five Baronies. 385,000 total (estimate).

Ahh ok there is the problem .. the CS with its nearly 2 million CS military units ..did in fact not take on all 3 at the same time. Fact is they (all the CS troops) took on Tolkeen 1 on 1. Ergo .. I was right .. in adding up strickly Tolkeen troops verses the Coalition military . While they (CS) had a 9+ to 1 ratio against Tolkeen.

That's 1 Tolkeenite to 2.95 CS Soldiers.

Wrong. You can not add in Freehold and Magstock troops into the "Tolkeen" troops and call them all Tolkeen troops. Each City-state had thier own military units. That would be the tri-city military verses the Coalition . It would be 1 Tolkeen defender .. per 9+ Coalition troops ..

[Lenwen]

The NGR .. has the safty in an entire open aired country ..

That the Coalition has in its Fortress Cities ..

[johnkretzer]

I'll start it off .. an nothing is off limits !! (well within board rules that is hehe)

1) - Did you know .. at the START of the Coalitions Actual "invasion" The CS had the following ..
a- 320,000 : Coalition Soilders.
b- 100,000 : Dogboys.
c- 316,000 : Skelebots.
d- 308,000 : Coalition Soilders (Holmes forces)
---------------
Total : 1,134,000 Combat units Total ..

I once heard...I don't know how true it is that only 1/3rd of any army is actualy combat units...the rest are support.

Now if that is true that would mean the Cs would have about 2,268,000 people to support these people...(and yes skelebots need as much support as a normal person). So we are talking a army about the size of 3,402,000.

Though I don't know how accurate the above is...and could see the support be brought slightly by just training combat soldiers in support roles.

[Hystrix]

All in all, the CS might have outnumbered Tolkeen 3 to 1... just sayin'

Are you talking about thee actual final siege of Tolkeen ? Or perhaps earlier ?

Could you clerify this ?

Actuall final seige.

285,000 troops in the city of Tolkeen alone (adding up the 6 Armies in Tolkeen). I figure 100,000 (estimated) defenders left over in Freehold, Magstock, the Barrens and the rest of the five Baronies. 385,000 total (estimate).

Ahh ok there is the problem .. the CS with its nearly 2 million CS military units ..did in fact not take on all 3 at the same time. Fact is they (all the CS troops) took on Tolkeen 1 on 1. Ergo .. I was right .. in adding up strickly Tolkeen troops verses the Coalition military . While they (CS) had a 9+ to 1 ratio against Tolkeen.

That's 1 Tolkeenite to 2.95 CS Soldiers.

Wrong. You can not add in Freehold and Magstock troops into the "Tolkeen" troops and call them all Tolkeen troops. Each City-state had thier own military units. That would be the tri-city military verses the Coalition . It would be 1 Tolkeen defender .. per 9+ Coalition troops ..

What difference dose it make if it was the Tri-City area. It was all part of the CS's invation. Them against it. You semantics don't work. It's still 1 to 3 (or less).

read SoT 5 page 9. There were 5 Baronies of The Kingdom of Tolkeen. Wether they were just allies, or actually all governed together dosn't matter. The point is it wasn't just Tolkeen the city vs the CS. It was all of them. And it spread to most of the former state of Minnesota. So Tolkeen, Freehold, Magestock, Center Gears, and Blueline, are part of the middle barony called the Barony of Tolkeen. Even if you are only talking about the City of Tolkeen it dosn't mean the CS didn't have to attack the rest of the 5 baronies (or at least the middle barony of Tolkeen wich includes the cities above). There forces were split in the Final Seige (look at SoT6) against Magestock, Freehold, and the City of Tolkeen.

It wasn't 285,000 (plus the resistance elsewere in the other cities) city defender grunts against 1,134,000-1,204,000 CS soldiers (again including skelebots). Think about force multipliers. Again 50,000+ Iron Juggernaughts (SoT6 pp. 40-43; just add up the number there) as well as mages that can summon (Warlocks, Shifters, and Necromancers) add more than just numbers.

Either way it was X number vs X number. The CS advantage was NOT 9 to 1...

[Hystrix]

I'll start it off .. an nothing is off limits !! (well within board rules that is hehe)

1) - Did you know .. at the START of the Coalitions Actual "invasion" The CS had the following ..
a- 320,000 : Coalition Soilders.
b- 100,000 : Dogboys.
c- 316,000 : Skelebots.
d- 308,000 : Coalition Soilders (Holmes forces)
---------------
Total : 1,134,000 Combat units Total ..

I once heard...I don't know how true it is that only 1/3rd of any army is actualy combat units...the rest are support.

Now if that is true that would mean the Cs would have about 2,268,000 people to support these people...(and yes skelebots need as much support as a normal person). So we are talking a army about the size of 3,402,000.

Though I don't know how accurate the above is...and could see the support be brought slightly by just training combat soldiers in support roles.

Well, that's one thing PB has never been great about is showing support troops. However the numbers in SoT6 were it. So the original 1.134 million troops (including skelebots) is what they had.

[Lenwen]

What difference dose it make if it was the Tri-City area. It was all part of the CS's invation. Them against it. You semantics don't work. It's still 1 to 3 (or less).

Two things ..
One..
I specifically stated "Tolkeen" troops .. Not tri-city, or anything other then "Tolkeen" troops. You are the one who tried to push them all together.

Two..
It also matters because the CS .. effectively took each city out .. 1 at a time .. starting with Tolkeen .. LEAVING .. the other two alone completely .. Which again show's that it was Tolkeen troops verses the CS troops. Not the entirety of the Tri-City troops verses the CS troops.

Each city was attacked after the previous city was already beaten .. further increasing the CS's soilder to soilder ratio .. by geometric levels .

Hope this helps !

[Damian Magecraft]

I'll start it off .. an nothing is off limits !! (well within board rules that is hehe)

1) - Did you know .. at the START of the Coalitions Actual "invasion" The CS had the following ..
a- 320,000 : Coalition Soilders.
b- 100,000 : Dogboys.
c- 316,000 : Skelebots.
d- 308,000 : Coalition Soilders (Holmes forces)
---------------
Total : 1,134,000 Combat units Total ..

I once heard...I don't know how true it is that only 1/3rd of any army is actualy combat units...the rest are support.

Now if that is true that would mean the Cs would have about 2,268,000 people to support these people...(and yes skelebots need as much support as a normal person). So we are talking a army about the size of 3,402,000.

Though I don't know how accurate the above is...and could see the support be brought slightly by just training combat soldiers in support roles.

They actually cover that point (about the support troops to combat troops ratio) in the Rifts: Mercenaries WB.