where does the Coalition get its raw materials?

rat_bastard · Unread post by **rat_bastard** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:19 am

much smaller pool of demand, and honestly all of those things can be acquired by digging up and melting down old cities.

johnkretzer · Unread post by **johnkretzer** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:52 am

Kikkoman wrote:Are there certain areas that are mined for... well whatever raw materials MDC stuff is made of.
And where do they get the funds to do all the stuff they do?
Millions and millions of skelebots especially.
Other than that, how do they feed all their citizens. Does the breadbasket still exist? That sort of thing seems terribly vulnerable to roving monsters and vengeful sorcerers.

In today's modern world a lot of it is shipped from overseas or large distances, but in RIFTS traveling is incredibly dangerous and communication over long distance is poor.

and in general is the question of resources ever brought up? Lots of post apocalyptic settings have your gangs fighting over gasoline, but RIFTS humanity seems to not worry about that at all.

Well one Rifts is not exactly a post apocalyptic setting. It is being to rebuild after the post apocalyptic setting.

But my money as to where the CS gets it's resouce...from the Deevils who they serve.

Killer Cyborg · Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:56 am

Kikkoman wrote:Are there certain areas that are mined for... well whatever raw materials MDC stuff is made of.

Mines, conquest, recycling, and salvage.

And where do they get the funds to do all the stuff they do?

It's their currency; they make it. They can "print" as much as they like, they can tax as much as they like, and the can seize the assets of whomever they like.

Millions and millions of skelebots especially.

How many are there?

Other than that, how do they feed all their citizens.

They have a lot of farms.

and in general is the question of resources ever brought up? Lots of post apocalyptic settings have your gangs fighting over gasoline, but RIFTS humanity seems to not worry about that at all.

Well, there isn't any real specific fighting over gasoline, in part because there are nuclear power supplies and other alternatives.
But there certainly are gangs fighting over various other resources.

TechnoGothic · Unread post by **TechnoGothic** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:10 am

Handwaveism

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 am

TechnoGothic wrote:Handwaveism

There's a giant vein of it that runs right beneath ChiTown.

dark brandon · Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:25 am

materials: 9th lvl of lonestar has a working rift open to a world filled with raw materials. They use skelebots to mine it so no human actually goes there.

food: if they can grow talking dogs they grow giant rib-eye steaks.

*note, none of this is canon. I don't even use it in my games*

resources are boring. We need more guns.

keir451 · Unread post by **keir451** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:14 pm

I just love the guys who say "handwavium" when the real facts are right there. Megaversetraveller and the others who actually answered the question have the right of it, there are plenty of ruins to scavenge and the CS has sent patrols out looking for natural resources to mine (that's how they found Lone Star, they were looking for oil). The CS really doesn't need gas as their equipmnet is powered by fusion (the books say "nuclear" I just add "fusion" after it), they do need petroleum to continue to make plastics.
Some of the territiroies the CS has deals w/ are farming areas (Whykin & Kingsdale) as well as mining centers.
The CS has a secret library full of books and other info some of which may have been pre-Rifts geological survey maps, and if the CS can find stuff like that then so can other communities.
Killer Cyborg (scarily enough

) is also right, the CS currency is "credits" so it's worth whatever they say it's worth. Its trade value for gold is 1,000 credits an OUNCE. Many U.S. gold and silver coins were minted in the 12-13 ounce range so I use that as a standard for my players when they do come across gold coins from the Palladium setting.
Remember that despite the setting this is still Earth, so just about anyhting that can be found here can be found in Rifts as well.

Killer Cyborg · Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:23 pm

Actually, it would be more like:
"Consider the feelings of animals...? Sounds like D-Bee talk to me. Lock these guys up, and make sure that they 'don't' get shot trying to escape."

RoadWarriorFWaNK · Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:48 pm

BirdyToe wrote:
dark brandon wrote:food: if they can grow talking dogs they grow giant rib-eye steaks.

You have a point there, if they can make mutant dog's,monkeys,bear's and what not they should have vast pens of cow boy's,
and to be done with the whole nastiness of "Oh it's a living thing we can't eat it."complaints from post rifts peta they instill into them the longing to be consumed.
"May I suggest my ribs sir?"

it mentions in one of the books that the CS uses genetic engineering to "grow" beef. Might be Lone Star. I dont remember.

rat_bastard · Unread post by **rat_bastard** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:19 pm

The CS uses the massive amounts of resources Americans had before, recycling materials as needed, it is also pointed out that the CS has farms that they guard and grow food on. Bear in mind that the CS only has to feed and supply a few million people, something that can be done on an area smaller than Rhode Island to feed and clothe their entire nation.

Also bear in mind that most goods that the CS use do not wear out and break, a CS cellphone is a minor MDC object and can be passed down through generations while maintaining basic function.

keir451 · Unread post by **keir451** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:01 pm

Atomic Ray wrote:"Other than that, how do they feed all their citizens?"

Soylent Green is made of people!

Ya just had to remind me, didn't you? My vote is for surface farms and hydroponics farms as well as some genetically engineered cattle. Moo Mesa any one?

csbioborg · Unread post by **csbioborg** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:15 pm

the Coalition is formed around many hive cities. The greatest of which is Chi Town in which the holy Emperor resides. That city, Chi Town, is a massive megacity made of mdc concret with many levels that shoots to the heavens. While it has not been described clearly the cities has huge areas that could be used for synethic agriculture. There are factories that create millions of SAMAS why not the same for food.

AzathothXy · Unread post by **AzathothXy** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:43 pm

dark brandon wrote:materials: 9th lvl of lonestar has a working rift open to a world filled with raw materials. They use skelebots to mine it so no human actually goes there.

.

Are you sure? I think that is just in Japan.

Cinos · Unread post by **Cinos** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:23 pm

Atomic Ray wrote:"Other than that, how do they feed all their citizens?"

Soylent Green is made of people!

Humans are useful, Soylent Green is made of D-Bees. Useful for something right?

Svartalf · Unread post by **Svartalf** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:04 pm

Uranium is one of the more evenly distributed elements over the earth... you can get some about anywhere... heck, they might have an agricultural soil sifting program as well a strip mining in convenient (and otherwise useless) areas.

keir451 · Unread post by **keir451** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:12 am

Splynnys Girlfriend wrote:
keir451 wrote::lol: I just love the guys who say "handwavium" when the real facts are right there. Megaversetraveller and the others who actually answered the question have the right of it, there are plenty of ruins to scavenge and the CS has sent patrols out looking for natural resources to mine (that's how they found Lone Star, they were looking for oil). The CS really doesn't need gas as their equipmnet is powered by fusion (the books say "nuclear" I just add "fusion" after it), they do need petroleum to continue to make plastics.
Some of the territiroies the CS has deals w/ are farming areas (Whykin & Kingsdale) as well as mining centers.
The CS has a secret library full of books and other info some of which may have been pre-Rifts geological survey maps, and if the CS can find stuff like that then so can other communities.
Killer Cyborg (scarily enough ) is also right, the CS currency is "credits" so it's worth whatever they say it's worth. Its trade value for gold is 1,000 credits an OUNCE. Many U.S. gold and silver coins were minted in the 12-13 ounce range so I use that as a standard for my players when they do come across gold coins from the Palladium setting.
Remember that despite the setting this is still Earth, so just about anyhting that can be found here can be found in Rifts as well.

they use fission & not fusion. fusions fancy enough that whenever dudes in rifts are using it the writers made a point of sayin so.

so where does the cs get its uranium from?

Sez you, There is nothing in the books that details it either way they just say "nuclear" so, for MY games, I choose fusion.

rat_bastard · Unread post by **rat_bastard** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:35 pm

Splynnys Girlfriend wrote:
keir451 wrote::lol: I just love the guys who say "handwavium" when the real facts are right there. Megaversetraveller and the others who actually answered the question have the right of it, there are plenty of ruins to scavenge and the CS has sent patrols out looking for natural resources to mine (that's how they found Lone Star, they were looking for oil). The CS really doesn't need gas as their equipmnet is powered by fusion (the books say "nuclear" I just add "fusion" after it), they do need petroleum to continue to make plastics.
Some of the territiroies the CS has deals w/ are farming areas (Whykin & Kingsdale) as well as mining centers.
The CS has a secret library full of books and other info some of which may have been pre-Rifts geological survey maps, and if the CS can find stuff like that then so can other communities.
Killer Cyborg (scarily enough ) is also right, the CS currency is "credits" so it's worth whatever they say it's worth. Its trade value for gold is 1,000 credits an OUNCE. Many U.S. gold and silver coins were minted in the 12-13 ounce range so I use that as a standard for my players when they do come across gold coins from the Palladium setting.
Remember that despite the setting this is still Earth, so just about anyhting that can be found here can be found in Rifts as well.

they use fission & not fusion. fusions fancy enough that whenever dudes in rifts are using it the writers made a point of sayin so.

so where does the cs get its uranium from?

the largest sources of Uranium in the world are in CS controlled territories.

rat_bastard · Unread post by **rat_bastard** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:36 pm

Not including anything brought to earth pre cataclysm from asteroid mining.

lets not also forget that with MDC materials Coalition miners can go deeper and gather more resources that modern ones can.

BookWyrm · Unread post by **BookWyrm** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:47 pm

I have to agree that a significant portion of 'raw materials' used by the CS are recycled & reused from scavenged areas of post-Cataclysm cities, abandoned towns and even what can be broaught back from medium-scale conflict sites. Such activities create another means of revenue for not only the CS, but those outside the 'sphere of control' normally monitored by the CS forces. Let's not forget that the SAMAS systems were re-discovered & reverse-engineered by the CS scientists from Golden-Age-era reclamation efforts.

Besides, I *love* the idea of "handwavium" mentioned above.

rat_bastard · Unread post by **rat_bastard** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:23 pm

Kikkoman wrote:does it say what MDC materials are made out of?

Is it some kind of super steel alloy, ceramic, or what?

MDC materials are normal materials that have been combined and processed using methods that are far beyond what is currently available.

Subjugator · Unread post by **Subjugator** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:53 pm

Also, Wilk's makes the components for a lot of the stuff that they use. But the CS has client states that make payment for refined materials with raw materials. Think of 'em as being a lot like a very violent and power hungry Foundation. They import 100 tons of tin and they export 30 CA-12 energy rifles. They import 100,000 liters of oil and they export 5 suits of Dead Boy armor. They import import a 100 tons of the ingredients for megadamage ceramic and they export 2 Mark V APCs.

*shrug*

What I want to know is what happens when someone realizes that a baby dragon with the right set of spells can create megadamage wood that lasts forever, so they start constructing megadamage cities (et al) at a fraction of the cost.

/Sub

Unread post by **NMI** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:07 pm

Splynnys Girlfriend wrote:or posibly magic. the fact that the CS has milions of skelebots & a stockpile of ten jilion spare SAMAS in the first place shoud be a prety big clue that not even the writers think rly hard about economics stuff in this game

Let's try to not be insulting of the writers and the staff of Palladium. Ok? - NMI

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:13 pm

Killer Cyborg wrote:Actually, it would be more like:
"Consider the feelings of animals...? Sounds like D-Bee talk to me. Lock these guys up, and make sure that they 'don't' get shot trying to escape."

I think this way about PETA NOW. Now where did I put the bacon double cheeseburger.....

Noon · Unread post by **Noon** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:50 pm

I think the CS was presented as a moral conudrum, where people were being nazi's, sure, but they were and to a degree still are on the bring of literal alien invasion. So what behaviour is moral in such a case?

Trying to figure out the socio economics of the situation is kind of missing the point. It's like seeing spider man having to choose between saving Mary Jane or a bus full of kids and...asking where Mary Jane bought her dress? How could she afford it?

Noon · Unread post by **Noon** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:01 pm

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:
Splynnys Girlfriend wrote:or posibly magic. the fact that the CS has milions of skelebots & a stockpile of ten jilion spare SAMAS in the first place shoud be a prety big clue that not even the writers think rly hard about economics stuff in this game

Let's try to not be insulting of the writers and the staff of Palladium. Ok? - NMI

While someone might try to use that as an insult, pretty much any phrase can be repurposed into an insult.

At a bare facts level, it's not insulting to hypothesize someone didn't think hard about something. But if you estimate the other poster is trying to be nasty in saying it, I get that.

Prince Artemis · Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:19 am

My article in Rifter 0 highlights one possible solution, and I am working to include an expanded version of it for a future book so it will become canon.

mobuttu · Unread post by **mobuttu** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:46 am

I have never asked me this before. I all honesty, does it matter? Does not knowing will less your enjoyment in the game? Not for me. Should I need a mine for the game, I put it down on the table using that mentioned in New West. But I don't think it really matters where that huge source of material needed come from. Not at least for me.

dark brandon · Unread post by **dark brandon** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:21 pm

Consider in todays world, we can grow meat in a dish, cross-breed plants even change their genetic structure, it's not too hard to think that CS has this down to an art (they do make talking dogs)

If you make a genetically engineered cow, it'll still have to eat, and that food goes to different processes of the body. More efficiently, they probably have giant vats of meat that grow at a vast pace. It may very well be you get a packet at the store about the size of stamp: "Rib-eye steak. Just leave in water and sugar for 30 min. To obtain maximum oz. leave in solution over-night."

Plants could be engineered to require minimal sunlight, minimal soil space and have hugely increased growth rate. "the new topsy-turvy tomato farm. Just add water, leave in sunlight and watch your tomatos grow and ripen within 5 hours."

They could even go more efficient and basically put all the things the people need for a daily ration (calcium, iron, protein...ect...) in a caloric paste. Each "toothpaste" tube has enough calories and nutrients for 1 full day.

dark brandon · Unread post by **dark brandon** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:22 pm

AzathothXy wrote:
dark brandon wrote:materials: 9th lvl of lonestar has a working rift open to a world filled with raw materials. They use skelebots to mine it so no human actually goes there.

.

Are you sure? I think that is just in Japan.

Well, CS does have a "rift" machine in lvl 9 of Lone star. In canon it's not running (AFAIK). I just use it as "there, material problem solved" in my game.

Bood Samel · Unread post by **Bood Samel** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:26 pm

I'd just assume that the CS has mines and also buys raw material from freelancers. I had the players one time working for a guy who ran a copper mine on an island in the great lakes that was being messed with by monsters. The guy was an independant business man but sold to NG and the CS, Iron Heart specifically.

I've used the idea of private companies who hire adventurers and mercs to protect their interests many times in rifts. Anybody remember my Hall United post about the company Hall United? It was info on a tech salavage and manifacturing company that could be used as employers for a group of players.

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:31 pm

Bood Samel wrote:I'd just assume that the CS has mines and also buys raw material from freelancers. I had the players one time working for a guy who ran a copper mine on an island in the great lakes that was being messed with by monsters. The guy was an independant business man but sold to NG and the CS, Iron Heart specifically.

I've used the idea of private companies who hire adventurers and mercs to protect their interests many times in rifts. Anybody remember my Hall United post about the company Hall United? It was info on a tech salavage and manifacturing company that could be used as employers for a group of players.

Sounds essentially like what Golden Age Weaponsmith's woudl do as well.

Bood Samel · Unread post by **Bood Samel** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:50 pm

jaymz wrote:
Bood Samel wrote:I'd just assume that the CS has mines and also buys raw material from freelancers. I had the players one time working for a guy who ran a copper mine on an island in the great lakes that was being messed with by monsters. The guy was an independant business man but sold to NG and the CS, Iron Heart specifically.

I've used the idea of private companies who hire adventurers and mercs to protect their interests many times in rifts. Anybody remember my Hall United post about the company Hall United? It was info on a tech salavage and manifacturing company that could be used as employers for a group of players.

Sounds essentially like what Golden Age Weaponsmith's woudl do as well.

The difference between Hall United and GAW is that HU focuses on non-military tech in order to not provoke anyones ire. The focus of regular gear, appliances and other types of commerical technology. I had written that they sold the CS the heating and cooling systems that the use for their buildings. So while not very action oriented on that end, they still need mercs to cover them when they poke around in ruins, which leads to all sorts of antics. Plus if you recall the owner collects pre-rifts American artifacts and he is dying to find the liberty bell. He has the largest known collection of pre-rifts American flags.

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:54 pm

Bood Samel wrote:
jaymz wrote:
Bood Samel wrote:I'd just assume that the CS has mines and also buys raw material from freelancers. I had the players one time working for a guy who ran a copper mine on an island in the great lakes that was being messed with by monsters. The guy was an independant business man but sold to NG and the CS, Iron Heart specifically.

I've used the idea of private companies who hire adventurers and mercs to protect their interests many times in rifts. Anybody remember my Hall United post about the company Hall United? It was info on a tech salavage and manifacturing company that could be used as employers for a group of players.

Sounds essentially like what Golden Age Weaponsmith's woudl do as well.

The difference between Hall United and GAW is that HU focuses on non-military tech in order to not provoke anyones ire. The focus of regular gear, appliances and other types of commerical technology. I had written that they sold the CS the heating and cooling systems that the use for their buildings. So while not very action oriented on that end, they still need mercs to cover them when they poke around in ruins, which leads to all sorts of antics. Plus if you recall the owner collects pre-rifts American artifacts and he is dying to find the liberty bell. He has the largest known collection of pre-rifts American flags.

Actually I knwo nothing of your Hall United.

Bood Samel · Unread post by **Bood Samel** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:07 pm

jaymz wrote:
Bood Samel wrote:
jaymz wrote:
Bood Samel wrote:I'd just assume that the CS has mines and also buys raw material from freelancers. I had the players one time working for a guy who ran a copper mine on an island in the great lakes that was being messed with by monsters. The guy was an independant business man but sold to NG and the CS, Iron Heart specifically.

I've used the idea of private companies who hire adventurers and mercs to protect their interests many times in rifts. Anybody remember my Hall United post about the company Hall United? It was info on a tech salavage and manifacturing company that could be used as employers for a group of players.

Sounds essentially like what Golden Age Weaponsmith's woudl do as well.

The difference between Hall United and GAW is that HU focuses on non-military tech in order to not provoke anyones ire. The focus of regular gear, appliances and other types of commerical technology. I had written that they sold the CS the heating and cooling systems that the use for their buildings. So while not very action oriented on that end, they still need mercs to cover them when they poke around in ruins, which leads to all sorts of antics. Plus if you recall the owner collects pre-rifts American artifacts and he is dying to find the liberty bell. He has the largest known collection of pre-rifts American flags.

Actually I knwo nothing of your Hall United.

Fortunately for posting bits and pieces of the e-book I've been working on I was able to salvage a lot of it after my computer was stolen. Here is Hall United-

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=88936&hilit=+hall+united+2.0

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:11 pm

Bood Samel wrote:
jaymz wrote:
Bood Samel wrote:
jaymz wrote:
Bood Samel wrote:I'd just assume that the CS has mines and also buys raw material from freelancers. I had the players one time working for a guy who ran a copper mine on an island in the great lakes that was being messed with by monsters. The guy was an independant business man but sold to NG and the CS, Iron Heart specifically.

I've used the idea of private companies who hire adventurers and mercs to protect their interests many times in rifts. Anybody remember my Hall United post about the company Hall United? It was info on a tech salavage and manifacturing company that could be used as employers for a group of players.

Sounds essentially like what Golden Age Weaponsmith's woudl do as well.

The difference between Hall United and GAW is that HU focuses on non-military tech in order to not provoke anyones ire. The focus of regular gear, appliances and other types of commerical technology. I had written that they sold the CS the heating and cooling systems that the use for their buildings. So while not very action oriented on that end, they still need mercs to cover them when they poke around in ruins, which leads to all sorts of antics. Plus if you recall the owner collects pre-rifts American artifacts and he is dying to find the liberty bell. He has the largest known collection of pre-rifts American flags.

Actually I knwo nothing of your Hall United.

Fortunately for posting bits and pieces of the e-book I've been working on I was able to salvage a lot of it after my computer was stolen. Here is Hall United-

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=88936&hilit=+hall+united+2.0

Looks interesting. Imay have to use it in the background of one of my own games ifyou dont mind

Bood Samel · Unread post by **Bood Samel** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:21 pm

[/quote]Looks interesting. Imay have to use it in the background of one of my own games ifyou dont mind

[/quote]

Please by all means use it, thats why I wrote it. Despite the set backs my e-book is coming along in its occasional bits and pieces. Let me know how it goes.

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:34 pm

Anti wrote:Read Triax 1, theres a cool jet, and they go into how lots of weapons and food are transported between the NGR and the Coalition.

Yeah that woudl be the giant transport that looks like an SR-71 Blackbird in many respects.

keir451 · Unread post by **keir451** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:37 pm

Splynnys Girlfriend wrote:
Mr. Deific NMI wrote:
Splynnys Girlfriend wrote:or posibly magic. the fact that the CS has milions of skelebots & a stockpile of ten jilion spare SAMAS in the first place shoud be a prety big clue that not even the writers think rly hard about economics stuff in this game

Let's try to not be insulting of the writers and the staff of Palladium. Ok? - NMI

if a game is totes sketchy on some details how is it an insult to point out that its totes sketchy on some details? seems hella obvios to me that the writers never rly worried about the kindsa stuff this thread is about. agree yes/no?

No, I disagree. The fact that the writers DID give the Coalition an economy and even the value for converting credtis to gold and the cost of equipment as well as the cost of repairing said equipment (tho' vastly over inflated IMO) tells me they gave it a good deal of thought but didn't want to burden the players w/ too much info. I wish they HAD included more info. but I'm more than capable of filling in the gaps, despite my inherent lazyness.
Note: My Gm is standing over my shoulder threating me with certain death if I don't think about these details and the actuarial tables for Chi-town.

grandmaster z0b · Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:05 am

One thing to remember is how many minerals and resources are buried just underneath the surface. When the coming of the Rifts occurred, mega-cities covered much of the North American continent. They would have been filled with computer and electronic equipment, miles of wiring etc. If we assume that the CS and other nations have advanced recycling technology then it's only a question of where to dig. I would imagine that they would have machines that can extract everything from copper to tungsten, and more complex compounds are separated into their raw elements.

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:48 pm

dark brandon wrote:
AzathothXy wrote:
dark brandon wrote:materials: 9th lvl of lonestar has a working rift open to a world filled with raw materials. They use skelebots to mine it so no human actually goes there.

.

Are you sure? I think that is just in Japan.

Well, CS does have a "rift" machine in lvl 9 of Lone star. In canon it's not running (AFAIK). I just use it as "there, material problem solved" in my game.

You're correct, it really isn't operational.
I'd be amused if a baby alien intelligence got rifted in, the Coalition blew it to hell, a huge eye looked through, and cursed earth's humanity like the In'valians got it in the Phase World setting.

johnkretzer · Unread post by **johnkretzer** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:49 pm

Recycling? Was not most of the citys nuked? That would not leave alot to recycle...meh...also in 200 years from now with increasing levels of mining tech...why do you think anything will be left even very deep? Heck they probably had to mine the astroieds.

I like the Deevil idea as it suddenly cast the whole enimty between Prosek and Dunscan in a more interesting light...

If I ever get to run Rifts again( mostly I play as a player now) that would be a awesome plot.

Svartalf · Unread post by **Svartalf** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:48 pm

Salvaging if you prefer... and you don't want to think about the treasure troves that we call landfills and garbage dumps, should digging them up and retrieving and processing the stuff in them became necessary, or at least economical... a town being nuked doesn't mean that the wealth in metals, glass, and other materials it contains is beyond retrieval.

Bood Samel · Unread post by **Bood Samel** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:16 pm

The Northeast of 2098 had to be near solid archology from boston to richmond, the proverbial megalopolis. What looks like rolling hills in the eastern wilds is really covered up ruins. Once you get any where near philly, baltimore, etc. if it looks like a hill its more likely a building underneath.

grandmaster z0b · Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:10 pm

johnkretzer wrote:Recycling? Was not most of the citys nuked?

No. A small nuclear exchange happened in South America that caused a serge in PPE to go into the ley lines at exactly the same time as a planetary alignment. This caused Rifts to open up spewing demons on everyone, Atlantis to reappear which caused tidal waves to crash into the East coast and the sea level to rise, the Yellowstone Super Volcano erupted as well as a bunch of other things. But no nuclear exchanges in North America.

Vladamir Krophski · Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:55 pm

There were a couple of exchanges, or accidental detonations world wide, but not a all out war. Utah's Salt deserts one place as mentioned in New West, Arizona is another, Moscow was oblitherated if I recall propperly.

Spinachcat · Unread post by **Spinachcat** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:16 pm

rat_bastard wrote:much smaller pool of demand, and honestly all of those things can be acquired by digging up and melting down old cities.

THIS is the answer I use in my games. It keeps the Post-Apoc feel and differentiates Rifts Earth tech from Phase World tech. In my Rifts, most "new" stuff is recycled, rebuilt and retrofitted and slapped with a fresh paintjob all from salvage of the past.

Noon · Unread post by **Noon** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:03 am

Going into it, I'd suspect ceramic armour is actually rediculously easy to make, if you have a nanite press for it - simply add relatively normal clay and a ton of energy (nuclear generator) and out comes body armour that puts you way ahead of everyone. The founders of Chi town found one of these nanite presses first, then like good capitalists will, used thier strength as much as possible to eliminate other people aquiring strength.

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:54 pm

Ninjabunny wrote:
Vrykolas2k wrote:
dark brandon wrote:
AzathothXy wrote:
dark brandon wrote:materials: 9th lvl of lonestar has a working rift open to a world filled with raw materials. They use skelebots to mine it so no human actually goes there.

.

Are you sure? I think that is just in Japan.

Well, CS does have a "rift" machine in lvl 9 of Lone star. In canon it's not running (AFAIK). I just use it as "there, material problem solved" in my game.

You're correct, it really isn't operational.
I'd be amused if a baby alien intelligence got rifted in, the Coalition blew it to hell, a huge eye looked through, and cursed earth's humanity like the In'valians got it in the Phase World setting.

The In'valians got it through out the universe not just their home world. That happening to humans would pretty much kill off all humans through out the megaverse, and I don't think some gods and other creatures would be happy about that.

I'm aware of what happened to the In'Valians; I simply limited it to Earth's humans.

The Baron of chaos · Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:49 pm

Well this thread had already been answered a lot(seriously is one of those recurring arguments for Rifts fans, much like conversion from Star Wars and question about how exactyl MDC work).
Coalition is one of the most powerful empire on Rifts earth thank to its capacity of manage resources. These do not include JUST natural resources, albeit they are pivotal.
We have a few activity the Coalition(and most human empire)engage in order to fuel itself:
a) Scavenging; already be told, Is one of the oldest practice of humankind. Had be done to pyramids and roman colisseum, taking materials and resources from ruins is , expecially after an apocalyptic event, a reliable and sensed resources. Given the in Rifts Earth most ruins are in same situation of Madhaven, is much wiser to let on contract the actual scanvenging.
b)Mining; Is semi-canon(as it I heard this on this board from some of the authors) that Rifts Catlcysm had an effect on earth comparable to a super powerful healing factor, replenishing dwelling resources from other dimensions. Of course Mining and digging is ten thousand as dangerous than it was, as the underground is nfested by anything you can imagine can infest Rifts underground(from Morlock and mole men, to ghost Morlock and vampire Molemen!!). One of the reaos Mining is reserved for cyborgs(slaver or not) or D-bees. Also some area of rifts earth, where there are the most profitable mining resources are likely to have other drawbacks, like toxic air or poisonous alien pollen(why do you think FULL ENVIRONMENTAL armor exist?)
c) Farming; here coalition has its best success, thank to genetic engineering and a smart managment of crops, cultivation and cattling. Infact except the industrial arm of Coalition state, the core of its strength is the capacity to FEED its citizens. It is one of the main reason why many want to join coalition. As already said, protecting the farms is pivotal for coalition, as well as finding new fields to coltivate.
d) Factories and industrial power; Coalition is one of the FEW who has access to really advanced technology and can ACTUALLY produce(through non magical means) Megadamage technologies. Now Megadamage materials require a process just slightly more complex than average steel and ceramics, but not more expensive. Good. But this means you cannot produce 100 ton of Megamage metal and ceramics anywhere. You need a proper industrial chain to do so. Even recycling(se scavengin above) require a process of re-conversion you can't really do in any metalsmith hut. Coalition(or Triax) have such Factories, the porcess materials in order to make armor plates and gun barrels. Of course one had to remeber thant even in a full kickzz Megadamage giant robot, not everything is made of Megadamage material.(as example the padding for the pilot, or the mother boards, or the hardrive/memory mass for the machine.)
e)Communication; I don't know if does count as resources, but Coalition has some of the best way to search and trasmit information and goods from point A to point B. Only NGR and Triax are better.

Side (random) Notes;
Nuclear power system: While all the vehicles using those can give the imprssion they are inexpensive or easily available, truth is they are not. Infact in south america they don't have easy access to such luxury. And for another further proof think that there not nuclear cell powered energy handgun. So One imagine that is something that require at least a power armor sized structure of space, and is not so un-expensive, in term of work and resources needed to make it. Also a Nuclear power cell that power a hoverbike, could not be enough to power a freaking Glitterboy armor, but that was obvious.

Cyber snatching is an interesting form of scavenging, that say a lot of how available certain high technologies actually are. If bionics and cybernetics were all that easy to get there would be no need for it. And instead is likely there is a certain hihg request for such tech, enough hihg to push peopl to actually chop off bionic limbs and orgasn right in the middle of the road.

Maintenance and Repair of high tech in a proper way that allow it to work smoothly, is a toll that should not and is never understimated by any high tech using nations. In term of men, time and resources.

All this to say that losing a few thousand (or millions) of Skelebot(not talking about the vehicles, armors and fallen soldiers) lost in Tolkeen mess, well is not something the Coalition could skip over THAT easily. Is something that would took time to recover(for what then? the ex-tolkeen is now not exactly an area you really want to colonize or do anything at all. Is kinda like detroit, only worst)

Bood Samel · Unread post by **Bood Samel** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:48 pm

You know I never thought about the salvge value of raw material in regards to Tolkeen. I'm sure the CS is working over time to salvage not only their damaged goods, but everything, including building material.

The value in gems and crystals from ruined TW gear must be immense!