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BH-CC1 "Thunderbolt"
The techs at Bullhunter Arms have combined two classic survival tools into one sturdy weapon, suitable for hunting game or defending your homestead from raiders. The weapon uses the popular Bullhunter "Heavy Hitter" double-barrel shotgun as a stock, with a BHC1 crossbow prod mounted on the barrels. The weapon can use any of our standard or specialty crossbow bolts, and any of our line of 12 gauge shotgun shells.
Weight: 8.5 lbs
Damage: by ammunition type (either crossbow bolts or 12 gauge rounds).
Rate of Fire: Single shot, both shotgun barrels at once, or both shotgun barrels and the crossbow all firing simultaneously.
Range: 300' for the shotgun, 600' for the crossbow.
Payload: 2 for the shotgun (1 round per barrel), 1 for the crossbow.
Price: CR 1,200 for the standard model, CR 12,000 for a MDC version (15 MDC)



12 Gauge Ammunition:
Pepper Blast:
Tear Gas:
Rubber Slug: 1d4 SDC, 2d4 SDC for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Rock Salt: 1d6 SDC to a 10' radius, 2d6 SDC to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Taser Slug: 1d4 SDC, plus save vs. non-lethal poison or be incapacitated for 30 seconds. 65' range.
Buckshot*: 2d6 SDC to a 10' radius, 4d6 to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flare: 2d6 SDC per melee round, 4d6 SDC per melee round for a double-blast. Burns for 1d4 rounds. 500' range. CR 10 per flare.
Light Shot*: 3d6 SDC, 6d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flechettes*: 3d6 SDC, 6d6 SDC for a double-blast. Punches through the top 5 points of an AR for soft armor. For example, if a target has an AR of 12, the flechette rounds would only need a strike roll of 8 or better.
Standard Shot*: 4d6 SDC, 8d6 for a double-blast. CR 25 for a box of 50 shells.
Strung-Buck (Bolo)*: 6d6 SDC, 2d4x10 for a double-blast. 75' range.
Solid Slug*: 5d6 SDC, 1d6x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 75 for a box of 50.
Buck & Ball*: Shell contains a fragmenting slug as well as some buckshot. 1d4x10 SDC to soft targets, 2d4x10 SDC for a double-blast. 1/2 damage against hard targets. CR 90 for a box of 50.
Rocket Slug*: 6d6 SDC, 2d4x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 125 for a box of 50.
Armor-Piercing Rocket Slug*: 7d6 SDC, 2d4x10+10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 200 for a box of 50.
Armor-Piercing Ramjet Slug*: 2d6 MD, 4d6 MD for a double-blast to the same target. CR 1,000 for a box of 50.
Explosive Shells (SDC): 2d4x10 SDC to a 6' radius, or 4d4x10 to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 250 for a box of 50 shells.
Explosive Shells (Frag)*: 2d6 MD to a 5' radius, or 3d6 MD to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 140 per shell.
Little Dragon (Incendiary): Shoots a 75' blast of flame. 2d6 SDC to everything in the blast (3' radius), plus 40% chance of flammables igniting. 4d6 SDC to everything in the blast (6' radius) per double-blast, plus 85% chance of flammables igniting.
Dragon Spit (Incendiary): Slug ignites on impact. 3d6 SDC, plus a 45% chance of igniting flammables. 6d6 SDC for a double-blast, plus a 90% chance of igniting flammables.
Big Dragon (Plasma): 3d6 MD to a 3' diameter, or 5d6 to a 6' diameter for a double blast. CR 175 per shell.



Crossbow Bolts
Standard*: Light, 1d8 SDC. Heavy, 2d6 SDC.
Light Explosive: 1d6x10 SDC. CR 100 each.
Medium Explosive: 1d6 MD. CR 300 each.
Heavy Explosive: 2d6 MD. CR 550 each.
High Explosive: 3d6 MD. CR 900 each.
Tear Gas: All gas arrows cover a 10' area, and require a save vs. harmful Drugs to avoid the effects. CR 100 each.
Knockout Gas: 1d6 minutes. CR 250 each.
Paralysis Gas: 1d6 minutes. CR 400 each.
Smoke: Covers a 20' area. CR 80 each. Comes in a variety of colors.
Heavy Flare: 3d6 SDC, 6d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 120 per bolt.
Neural Disrupter: CR 400 each. Reusable 1d6 times before breaking.
Tracer Bug: 72 hour batteries. CR 200 each.
Tranquilizer: Target must save vs. Non-Lethal Poison or fall unconscious in 1d4 melees. If the save is made, the target instead becomes woozy in 1d4 melees, suffering a -2 penalty to strike, parry, and dodge, as well as a -10% penalty to skill checks. Duration is 4d4 minutes. CR 100 each.


*Available as silver rounds. 1/2 range, x2 damage to vampires, x3 price.




[Note: I have not finished everything on the ammo, but I'm too tired to do any more right now. If anybody wants to look up the effects for any ammo type that I have not detailed, please do so and I'll edit things later.]

Edit: fixed flechette round description
Edit: Flatline pointed out the Armor-Piercing Ramjet Round for the NG-11S "Sawed-Off," so I added that)

Nice!

Killer Cyborg wrote:BH-CC1 "Thunderbolt"Flechettes: 3d6 SDC, 6d6 SDC for a double-blast. +5 to overcome the Armor Rating of soft armor.

how does this special feature function?

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:BH-CC1 "Thunderbolt"Flechettes: 3d6 SDC, 6d6 SDC for a double-blast. +5 to overcome the Armor Rating of soft armor.

how does this special feature function?

I tossed that in because I don't think that Palladium uses flechettes right.
I don't know of any official version, though there might be something similar in the Compendium of Modern Weaponry.

In any case, you roll your strike as normal.
If you hit the target, but fall below their Armor Rating, and they have soft armor (kevlar, etc.), then you add in the bonus. If the new total is higher than the target's Armor Rating, the armor is bypassed as if the roll was 5 higher than it was.
If you miss the target, or the target dodges or parries, the bonus does not do anything.


Example:
Jen Ripper fires standard shotgun ammo at a person wearing a standard bulletproof vest (AR 10, 50 SDC).
Her strike roll is 8. The target does not defend.
She rolls damage, and the damage is applied to the armor (vest).

Same situation with flechettes, the outcome is different. Her strike roll is 8, which hits the target. Add in the +5 bonus, and the strike now becomes 13, which is higher than the AR of the vest.
So her damage roll is applied directly to the person, not the vest.


(Hm. Probably would have been simpler to say something like, "The AR of soft armor is effectively 5 points lower against flechette rounds" or something)

Compendium of Modern Firearms aDOES have similar rules, and I believe the old TMNT Turtles in Space had Triceraton armor-piercing weaponry.

Oh, and good weapon!

taalismn wrote:Compendium of Modern Firearms aDOES have similar rules, and I believe the old TMNT Turtles in Space had Triceraton armor-piercing weaponry.

Oh, and good weapon!

Thank You.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:BH-CC1 "Thunderbolt"Flechettes: 3d6 SDC, 6d6 SDC for a double-blast. +5 to overcome the Armor Rating of soft armor.

how does this special feature function?

I tossed that in because I don't think that Palladium uses flechettes right.
I don't know of any official version, though there might be something similar in the Compendium of Modern Weaponry.

In any case, you roll your strike as normal.
If you hit the target, but fall below their Armor Rating, and they have soft armor (kevlar, etc.), then you add in the bonus. If the new total is higher than the target's Armor Rating, the armor is bypassed as if the roll was 5 higher than it was.
If you miss the target, or the target dodges or parries, the bonus does not do anything.


Example:
Jen Ripper fires standard shotgun ammo at a person wearing a standard bulletproof vest (AR 10, 50 SDC).
Her strike roll is 8. The target does not defend.
She rolls damage, and the damage is applied to the armor (vest).

Same situation with flechettes, the outcome is different. Her strike roll is 8, which hits the target. Add in the +5 bonus, and the strike now becomes 13, which is higher than the AR of the vest.
So her damage roll is applied directly to the person, not the vest.


(Hm. Probably would have been simpler to say something like, "The AR of soft armor is effectively 5 points lower against flechette rounds" or something)

OK that makes sense.
(yeah the ARs of soft armor is 5 points lower would have been less confusing).
very nice weapon

Nice!

(Just need a good pic of this is all that's missing)

Okay, after reading up on the Triceraton Armor-Piercing Blaster, I'm going to phrase the flechette bonus the same basic way that they do.

Dustin Fireblade wrote:Nice!

(Just need a good pic of this is all that's missing)

Wookie Bowcaster.

I always love seeing everyone's shotgun ammo. Nice write up. I do find on 10 ft radius on buckshot quite extreme.

Check out my patterning rules for shotguns loaded with shot or flechettes here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=114767

Patterning rule: Shotgun ammunition such as buckshot, pellets, and flechettes spread out as they reach maximum range. Every 50 ft of range subtract 1D4-1 S.D.C./M.D.C from the damage roll of a successful hit to take this patterning into account. Modern buckshot patterns at roughly 1” per 3 ft (1 yard). But this is highly variable based on how the ammunition is loaded (i.e. type of powder and wadding), barrel length, choke diameter.

you have a typo. under flechette an AR of 12 would be beat by a 7 or 8. I am not sure how the rule works but I do know that 7 plus 5 is 12.

Daeglan wrote:you have a typo. under flechette an AR of 12 would be beat by a 7 or 8. I am not sure how the rule works but I do know that 7 plus 5 is 12.

Fixed.
Thanks!

Dustin Fireblade wrote:Nice!

(Just need a good pic of this is all that's missing)

Here is a picture of this type of weapon:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jRJbywFM5FQ/S ... +Still.jpg

Omega6 wrote:

Dustin Fireblade wrote:Nice!

(Just need a good pic of this is all that's missing)

Here is a picture of this type of weapon:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jRJbywFM5FQ/S ... +Still.jpg

Hey that was pretty cool! Thanks!

Pretty nice.
suggested correction in your PM

What movie is that shot from?

Omega6 wrote:

Dustin Fireblade wrote:Nice!

(Just need a good pic of this is all that's missing)

Here is a picture of this type of weapon:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jRJbywFM5FQ/S ... +Still.jpg

Yeah, I turned that up initially in a Google search, but didn't find any pictures where the weapon was so clear.

The crossbow part in this case wouldn't look as high-tech or complicated, but it's got the basic design down.

And here I thought the x-bow bolts got stuffed into the barrel with it's own fitted power charge.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:And here I thought the x-bow bolts got stuffed into the barrel with it's own fitted power charge.

That would also be cool.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:And here I thought the x-bow bolts got stuffed into the barrel with it's own fitted power charge.

That would also be cool.

Maybe that can be the BH-CC2 "Thunderbolt 2" model.

Abub wrote:

dragonfett wrote:What movie is that shot from?

Daywalkers

Daybreakers

Here are some more views of your weapon - Crossbow/Shotgun.

abtex wrote:Here are some more views of your weapon - Crossbow/Shotgun.

I love IMFDB.

Oh the web site imfdb

Killer Cyborg wrote:Buckshot*: 2d6 SDC to a 10' radius, 4d6 to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.

Kind of weak for Buckshot, don't you think? I know you got that straight out of the book, but I've always disagreed with that entry. Not only is the 10-foot spread pattern ridiculously huge, but also considering that even a short 2-3/4" shell of double-ought blasts about eight to ten .30-caliber balls at about 1600 feet per second, I think 1D4x10 (2D4x10 for a double barrel blast) would be more on the money. The pattern should also be shrunk to something a bit more realistic, like a general three feet max (there are actually a ton of variables involved, but that's good enough for a quickie one-size-fits-all rule of thumb).

Do have a question.

At what range does the buck shot have the 10' dispersal radius?

Add a little style to your crossbows, like this. Have you looked at Atchisson Assault Shotgun AA-12 type shotgun ammo. Cannot find the right search words for a link. But they are a step above normal.

Full-auto crossbow
Repeating Crossbow love the way it roosters. In a Rift style crossbow it might just be cyber-muscle or pump like the 'Mythbusters' Arrow Machine gun.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:And here I thought the x-bow bolts got stuffed into the barrel with it's own fitted power charge.

That would also be cool.

Maybe that can be the BH-CC2 "Thunderbolt 2" model.

Why would it have to be 2? It is just modifications on the shell and bolt, and wouldn't need the crossbow so would be back to the original shotgun.

Just replace the 2 with an "B". That's what the did with the M-16's, IIRC.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Do have a question.

At what range does the buck shot have the 10' dispersal radius?

Well, it depends on the barrel length and choke tube involved. Police shotguns (not all, but some) seem to have the tightest pattern of a 20-inch pattern at 150 feet, while others with absolutely no choke will produce a patters as wide as 59-inches at just 120 feet. But generally the average spread is considered to be about an 8-inch spread every 25 feet.

So, going with the generally accepted average, a pattern would open up to 120-inches (10 feet) at 375 feet distance. FYI: Shotguns have an maximum effective range of somewhere between 60 and 210 feet, depending on the various features and characteristics of each weapon.

EDIT: Oh, and contrary to popular thought, the patterns themselves don NOT have evenly distributed shot throughout. They follow a Gaussian pattern, where there is a greater concentration in the middle than on the outer edges, so being on target still matters even when the pattern opens up fairly large.

Dead Boy wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Do have a question.

At what range does the buck shot have the 10' dispersal radius?

Well, it depends on the barrel length and choke tube involved. Police shotguns (not all, but some) seem to have the tightest pattern of a 20-inch pattern at 150 feet, while others with absolutely no choke will produce a patters as wide as 59-inches at just 120 feet. But generally the average spread is considered to be about an 8-inch spread every 25 feet.

So, going with the generally accepted average, a pattern would open up to 120-inches (10 feet) at 375 feet distance. FYI: Shotguns have an maximum effective range of somewhere between 60 and 210 feet, depending on the various features and characteristics of each weapon.

EDIT: Oh, and contrary to popular thought, the patterns themselves don NOT have evenly distributed shot throughout. They follow a Gaussian pattern, where there is a greater concentration in the middle than on the outer edges, so being on target still matters even when the pattern opens up fairly large.

Hate to ask this...
but...
If we start incorporating spread patterns in the pally system then it begs the eternal question...what is the spread pattern on the Boom Gun?

Dead Boy wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Do have a question.

At what range does the buck shot have the 10' dispersal radius?

Well, it depends on the barrel length and choke tube involved. Police shotguns (not all, but some) seem to have the tightest pattern of a 20-inch pattern at 150 feet, while others with absolutely no choke will produce a patters as wide as 59-inches at just 120 feet. But generally the average spread is considered to be about an 8-inch spread every 25 feet.

So, going with the generally accepted average, a pattern would open up to 120-inches (10 feet) at 375 feet distance. FYI: Shotguns have an maximum effective range of somewhere between 60 and 210 feet, depending on the various features and characteristics of each weapon.

EDIT: Oh, and contrary to popular thought, the patterns themselves don NOT have evenly distributed shot throughout. They follow a Gaussian pattern, where there is a greater concentration in the middle than on the outer edges, so being on target still matters even when the pattern opens up fairly large.

Thank you DB.
While I was generally familiar with shot guns, I ended up with more information then I knew before this.
Here is the "However", I had been aiming my question at KC"

dragonfett wrote:Just replace the 2 with an "B". That's what the did with the M-16's, IIRC.

Do you really want me to go through that?

Dead Boy wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Do have a question.

At what range does the buck shot have the 10' dispersal radius?

Well, it depends on the barrel length and choke tube involved. Police shotguns (not all, but some) seem to have the tightest pattern of a 20-inch pattern at 150 feet, while others with absolutely no choke will produce a patters as wide as 59-inches at just 120 feet. But generally the average spread is considered to be about an 8-inch spread every 25 feet.

So, going with the generally accepted average, a pattern would open up to 120-inches (10 feet) at 375 feet distance. FYI: Shotguns have an maximum effective range of somewhere between 60 and 210 feet, depending on the various features and characteristics of each weapon.

EDIT: Oh, and contrary to popular thought, the patterns themselves don NOT have evenly distributed shot throughout. They follow a Gaussian pattern, where there is a greater concentration in the middle than on the outer edges, so being on target still matters even when the pattern opens up fairly large.

Didn't they make one add on choke that tappered in the vertical but widened in the horizontal to make a fan pattern? You know now that I think about it I think that was an RPG not RL modification

Gaussian eh... kinda funny just did research. I knew a Gauss is a measure of magnetic force so I assumed that a Gaussian pattern (distribution) had some reference to magnetic force but completely forgot that a Gauss is named after someone who was a mathematician and scientist and has a CRAP LOAD of stuff named after him to include but not limited to the already mentioned as well as a city a ship and a crater on the moon! So if you are refering to the measure of magnetic force is it a Gaussian measurement or is only the pattern use Gaussian? OR are both corrects as they are both reference to Gauss one the man and the other the metric?

abtex wrote:Add a little style to your crossbows, [url=http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/11/04/kodabows-tactical-crossbows/like this[/url]. Have you looked at Atchisson Assault Shotgun AA-12 type shotgun ammo. Cannot find the right search words for a link. But they are a step above normal.

Full-auto crossbow
Repeating Crossbow love the way it roosters. In a Rift style crossbow it might just be cyber-muscle or pump like the 'Mythbusters' Arrow Machine gun.

strange looks as if both took concepts from the Chu-ku-no or Chu-ko-nu

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Thank you DB.
While I was generally familiar with shot guns, I ended up with more information then I knew before this.
Here is the "However", I had been aiming my question at KC"

Ouch... *Big boys don't cry... big boys don't cry... big boys don't cry*

Despite the slight, I assure you that everything I said is dead on accurate, even if you may have preferred "someone else" provide the information.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Didn't they make one add on choke that tappered in the vertical but widened in the horizontal to make a fan pattern? You know now that I think about it I think that was an RPG not RL modification

Not sure on that one, but I do recall the quad-barreled shotgun form Phantasm 2 cut into a V-shape. That might do what you're after.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Gaussian eh... kinda funny just did research. I knew a Gauss is a measure of magnetic force so I assumed that a Gaussian pattern (distribution) had some reference to magnetic force but completely forgot that a Gauss is named after someone who was a mathematician and scientist and has a CRAP LOAD of stuff named after him to include but not limited to the already mentioned as well as a city a ship and a crater on the moon! So if you are refering to the measure of magnetic force is it a Gaussian measurement or is only the pattern use Gaussian? OR are both corrects as they are both reference to Gauss one the man and the other the metric?

Johann Carl Friedrich Gauss did a LOT of work in his time, contributing to a great many fields of science, and not just electromagnetism. But the common thread throughout his work was mathematics, and the Gaussian distribution pattern was but one of his may contributions/discoveries.

DB look at it this way,you were faster with the answer then KC.

Dead Boy wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Thank you DB.
While I was generally familiar with shot guns, I ended up with more information then I knew before this.
Here is the "However", I had been aiming my question at KC"

Ouch... *Big boys don't cry... big boys don't cry... big boys don't cry*

Despite the slight, I assure you that everything I said is dead on accurate, even if you may have preferred "someone else" provide the information.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Didn't they make one add on choke that tappered in the vertical but widened in the horizontal to make a fan pattern? You know now that I think about it I think that was an RPG not RL modification

Not sure on that one, but I do recall the quad-barreled shotgun form Phantasm 2 cut into a V-shape. That might do what you're after.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Gaussian eh... kinda funny just did research. I knew a Gauss is a measure of magnetic force so I assumed that a Gaussian pattern (distribution) had some reference to magnetic force but completely forgot that a Gauss is named after someone who was a mathematician and scientist and has a CRAP LOAD of stuff named after him to include but not limited to the already mentioned as well as a city a ship and a crater on the moon! So if you are refering to the measure of magnetic force is it a Gaussian measurement or is only the pattern use Gaussian? OR are both corrects as they are both reference to Gauss one the man and the other the metric?

Johann Carl Friedrich Gauss did a LOT of work in his time, contributing to a great many fields of science, and not just electromagnetism. But the common thread throughout his work was mathematics, and the Gaussian distribution pattern was but one of his may contributions/discoveries.

Yup... can't argue with anything here... darn.

Dead Boy wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Buckshot*: 2d6 SDC to a 10' radius, 4d6 to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.

Kind of weak for Buckshot, don't you think? I know you got that straight out of the book, but I've always disagreed with that entry. Not only is the 10-foot spread pattern ridiculously huge, but also considering that even a short 2-3/4" shell of double-ought blasts about eight to ten .30-caliber balls at about 1600 feet per second, I think 1D4x10 (2D4x10 for a double barrel blast) would be more on the money. The pattern should also be shrunk to something a bit more realistic, like a general three feet max (there are actually a ton of variables involved, but that's good enough for a quickie one-size-fits-all rule of thumb).

1d4x10 is about the same damage as a stick of dynamite, iirc.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:DB look at it this way,you were faster with the answer then KC.

And that I take not as a minor victory, but a minor miracle!

Killer Cyborg wrote:1d4x10 is about the same damage as a stick of dynamite, iirc.

Depends on the game, but yea. So? Shotguns at close range are devastating weapons, especially when loaded with buckshot. It's not my fault that Palladium undervalues the damage scores of darn near everything.

Look at it this way. A 2-3/4" shell of double-aught (or is it "ought"? ... I've seen it both ways) will blast out nine .33 caliber balls at about 1600 fps. Inside of 25 yards a well placed shot with a shotgun will result in about 70% of the pellets being on target (estimation with an approximate 25" Gaussian pattern assuming the typical spread of about 1 inch per 1 yard of distance to the target with an open choke), meaning at least six of the nine pellets would hit, and that's being conservative. Now, if six .22's hit you (which is way lighter and way slower, inflicting 1D6 SDC per hit), your character would take 6D6SDC. The buckshot's .33 caliber pellets aren't quite as large as a 9mm, but fly a bit faster, so though it would be inappropriate to assume they hit as hard as 9mm's (2D6 per, or 12D6 for six hits), the .33-cal pellets would hit harder than a .22. Consequently 1D4x10 for the residual hitting pattern is more than fair compromise if you ask me, again leaning on the conservative side at that considering it's feasible for an even higher percentage of pellets to be on target.

Dead Boy wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:1d4x10 is about the same damage as a stick of dynamite, iirc.

Depends on the game, but yea. So? Shotguns at close range are devastating weapons, especially when loaded with buckshot. It's not my fault that Palladium undervalues the damage scores of darn near everything.

Look at it this way. A 2-3/4" shell of double-aught (or is it "ought"? ... I've seen it both ways) will blast out nine .33 caliber balls at about 1600 fps. Inside of 25 yards a well placed shot with a shotgun will result in about 70% of the pellets being on target (estimation with an approximate 25" Gaussian pattern assuming the typical spread of about 1 inch per 1 yard of distance to the target with an open choke), meaning at least six of the nine pellets would hit, and that's being conservative. Now, if six .22's hit you (which is way lighter and way slower, inflicting 1D6 SDC per hit), your character would take 6D6SDC. The buckshot's .33 caliber pellets aren't quite as large as a 9mm, but fly a bit faster, so though it would be inappropriate to assume they hit as hard as 9mm's (2D6 per, or 12D6 for six hits), the .33-cal pellets would hit harder than a .22. Consequently 1D4x10 for the residual hitting pattern is more than fair compromise if you ask me, again leaning on the conservative side at that considering it's feasible for an even higher percentage of pellets to be on target.

Six .22 rounds would inflict 6d6 damage if each shot were made as a separate attack. Otherwise, Palladium would count it as a burst, and it would only do 2d6 damage.
So if you count a .33 cal pellet as doing the same damage as a 9mm round, then a burst of those pellets would end up doing 2d6x2 damage, which would come out to 4d6 damage.
Which happens to be the damage they came up with.

(somehow, I doubt that was intentional, though)

Here are other shotgun ammunition types for various kinds of shotguns.
This was quite a bit of work, and I might have screwed up in places. If any of the numbers seem off to you, please let me know.

.410 Bore Ammunition:
Taser Slug: 1 SDC, plus save vs. non-lethal poison or be incapacitated for 15 seconds. 60' range.
Buckshot*: 1d4 SDC to a 10' radius, 2d4 to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flare: 1d4-2 SDC per melee round, 1d4 SDC per melee round for a double-blast. Burns for 2 rounds. 400' range. CR 10 per flare.
Light Shot*: 1d6 SDC, 2d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flechettes*: 1d6 SDC, 2d6 SDC for a double-blast. Punches through the top 5 points of an AR for soft armor. For example, if a target has an AR of 12, the flechette rounds would only need a strike roll of 8 or better.
Standard Shot*: 2d4+1 SDC, 3d6 for a double-blast. CR 25 for a box of 50 shells.
Strung-Buck (Bolo)*: 2d6 SDC to soft targets, 4d6 for a double-blast. 70' range. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including MDC creatures and objects).
Solid Slug*: 2d4+1 SDC, 3d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 75 for a box of 50.
Buck & Ball*: Shell contains a fragmenting slug as well as some buckshot. 2d6 SDC to soft targets, 4d6 SDC for a double-blast. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including MDC creatures and objects). CR 90 for a box of 50.
Rocket Slug*: 3d6 SDC, 6d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 125 for a box of 50.
Armor Piercing Rocket Slug*: 2d6 SDC, 4d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 200 for a box of 50.
Explosive Shells (SDC): 2d6+3 SDC to a 6' radius, or 5d6 to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 250 for a box of 50 shells.
Explosive Shells (Frag)*: 1d4-1 MD to a 5' radius, or 1d6 MD to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 140 per shell.
Little Dragon (Incendiary): Shoots a 70' blast of flame. 1d4-1 SDC to everything in the blast (3' radius), plus 20% chance of flammables igniting. 2d4 SDC to everything in the blast (6' radius) per double-blast, plus 45% chance of flammables igniting.
Dragon Spit (Incendiary): Slug ignites on impact. 1d6 SDC, plus a 20% chance of igniting flammables. 2d6 SDC for a double-blast, plus a 40% chance of igniting flammables.
Big Dragon (Plasma): 1d6 MD to target, or 2d6 to a 3' diameter for a double blast. CR 175 per shell.

28 Gauge Ammunition:
Taser Slug: 1 SDC, plus save vs. non-lethal poison or be incapacitated for 30 seconds. 65' range.
Buckshot*: 1d4+1 SDC to a 10' radius, 1d10 to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flare: 1d4 SDC per melee round, 2d4 SDC per melee round for a double-blast. Burns for 2 rounds. 450' range. CR 10 per flare.
Light Shot*: 2d4+1 SDC, 3d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flechettes*: 2d4+1 SDC, 3d6 SDC for a double-blast. Punches through the top 5 points of an AR for soft armor. For example, if a target has an AR of 12, the flechette rounds would only need a strike roll of 8 or better.
Standard Shot*: 1d10 SDC, 2d10 for a double-blast. CR 25 for a box of 50 shells.
Strung-Buck (Bolo)*: 3d6 SDC to soft targets, 6d6 for a double-blast. 75' range. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including MDC creatures and objects).
Solid Slug*: 2d6 SDC, 4d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 75 for a box of 50.
Buck & Ball*: Shell contains a fragmenting slug as well as some buckshot. 4d4 SDC to soft targets, 5d6 SDC for a double-blast. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including MDC creatures and objects). CR 90 for a box of 50.
Rocket Slug*: 2d10 SDC, 1d4x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 125 for a box of 50.
Armor Piercing Rocket Slug*: 4d4 SDC, 5d6+2 SDC for a double-blast. CR 200 for a box of 50.
Explosive Shells (SDC): 3d6+2 SDC to a 6' radius, or 1d4x10 to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 250 for a box of 50 shells.
Explosive Shells (Frag)*: 1d4+1 MD to a 5' radius, or 1d10 MD to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 140 per shell.
Little Dragon (Incendiary): Shoots a 75' blast of flame. 1d4 SDC to everything in the blast (3' radius), plus 25% chance of flammables igniting. 2d4 SDC to everything in the blast (6' radius) per double-blast, plus 55% chance of flammables igniting.
Dragon Spit (Incendiary): Slug ignites on impact. 2d4 SDC, plus a 30% chance of igniting flammables. 4d6 SDC for a double-blast, plus a 65% chance of igniting flammables.
Big Dragon (Plasma): 2d4+1 MD to target, or 3d6 to a 3' diameter for a double blast. CR 175 per shell.

20 Gauge Ammunition:
Pepper Blast:
Tear Gas:
Rubber Slug: 1d4-3 SDC, 1d4-2 SDC for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Rock Salt: 1d4-2 SDC to a 10' radius, 1d6 SDC to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Taser Slug: 2 SDC, plus save vs. non-lethal poison or be incapacitated for 30 seconds. 65' range.
Buckshot*: 1d6 SDC to a 10' radius, 2d6 to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flare: 1d6 SDC per melee round, 2d6 SDC per melee round for a double-blast. Burns for 1d4-1 rounds. 500' range. CR 10 per flare.
Light Shot*: 1d10 SDC, 2d10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flechettes*: 1d10 SDC, 2d10 SDC for a double-blast. Punches through the top 5 points of an AR for soft armor. For example, if a target has an AR of 12, the flechette rounds would only need a strike roll of 8 or better.
Standard Shot*: 2d6 SDC, 4d6 for a double-blast. CR 25 for a box of 50 shells.
Strung-Buck (Bolo)*: 2d10 SDC to soft targets, 1d4x10 for a double-blast. 75' range. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including MDC creatures and objects).
Solid Slug*: 4d4 SDC, 5d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 75 for a box of 50.
Buck & Ball*: Shell contains a fragmenting slug as well as some buckshot. 3d6+2 SDC to soft targets, 1d4x10 SDC for a double-blast. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including MDC creatures and objects). CR 90 for a box of 50.
Rocket Slug*: 5d6 SDC, 1d6x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 125 for a box of 50.
Armor Piercing Rocket Slug*: 4d6 SDC, 1d4x10+5 SDC for a double-blast. CR 200 for a box of 50.
Explosive Shells (SDC): 6d6 SDC to a 6' radius, or 1d6x10+10 to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 250 for a box of 50 shells.
Explosive Shells (Frag)*: 1d6 MD to a 5' radius, or 2d6 MD to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 140 per shell.
Little Dragon (Incendiary): Shoots a 75' blast of flame. 1d6 SDC to everything in the blast (3' radius), plus 30% chance of flammables igniting. 2d6 SDC to everything in the blast (6' radius) per double-blast, plus 65% chance of flammables igniting.
Dragon Spit (Incendiary): Slug ignites on impact. 1d10 SDC, plus a 35% chance of igniting flammables. 2d10 SDC for a double-blast, plus a 75% chance of igniting flammables.
Big Dragon (Plasma): 1d10 MD to a 3' diameter, or 2d10 to a 6' diameter for a double blast. CR 175 per shell.

16 Gauge Ammunition:
Pepper Blast:
Tear Gas:
Rubber Slug: 1d4-2 SDC, 1d4 SDC for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Rock Salt: 1d4 SDC to a 10' radius, 2d4 SDC to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Taser Slug: 2 SDC, plus save vs. non-lethal poison or be incapacitated for 30 seconds. 65' range.
Buckshot*: 2d4 SDC to a 10' radius, 4d4 to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flare: 2d4 SDC per melee round, 4d4 SDC per melee round for a double-blast. Burns for 1d4 rounds. 500' range. CR 10 per flare.
Light Shot*: 2d6 SDC, 4d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flechettes*: 2d6 SDC, 4d6 SDC for a double-blast. Punches through the top 5 points of an AR for soft armor. For example, if a target has an AR of 12, the flechette rounds would only need a strike roll of 8 or better.
Standard Shot*: 4d4 SDC, 5d6+2 for a double-blast. CR 25 for a box of 50 shells.
Strung-Buck (Bolo)*: 5d6 SDC to soft targets, 1d6x10 for a double-blast. 75' range. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including MDC creatures and objects).
Solid Slug*: 3d6+2 SDC, 1d4x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 75 for a box of 50.
Buck & Ball*: Shell contains a fragmenting slug as well as some buckshot. 5d6 SDC to soft targets, 1d6x10 SDC for a double-blast. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including MDC creatures and objects). CR 90 for a box of 50.
Rocket Slug*: 5d6 SDC, 1d6x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 125 for a box of 50.
Armor Piercing Rocket Slug*: 6d6 SDC, 1d6x10+10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 200 for a box of 50.
Explosive Shells (SDC): 1d4x10 SDC to a 6' radius, or 2d4x10 to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 250 for a box of 50 shells.
Explosive Shells (Frag)*: 2d4 MD to a 5' radius, or 4d6 MD to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 140 per shell.
Little Dragon (Incendiary): Shoots a 75' blast of flame. 2d4 SDC to everything in the blast (3' radius), plus 35% chance of flammables igniting. 4d4 SDC to everything in the blast (6' radius) per double-blast, plus 75% chance of flammables igniting.
Dragon Spit (Incendiary): Slug ignites on impact. 2d6 SDC, plus a 40% chance of igniting flammables. 4d6 SDC for a double-blast, plus a 85% chance of igniting flammables.
Big Dragon (Plasma): 2d6 MD to a 3' diameter, or 4d6 to a 6' diameter for a double blast. CR 175 per shell.

12 Gauge Ammunition
(already posted)

10 Gauge Ammunition:
Pepper Blast:
Tear Gas:
Rubber Slug: 1d6 SDC, 2d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Rock Salt: 1d8 SDC to a 10' radius, 2d8 SDC to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Taser Slug: 1d6 SDC, plus save vs. non-lethal poison or be incapacitated for 30 seconds. 65' range.
Buckshot*: 2d8 SDC to a 10' radius, 4d6 to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flare: 2d8 SDC per melee round, 5d6+2 SDC per melee round for a double-blast. Burns for 1d4+1 rounds. 500' range. CR 10 per flare.
Light Shot*: 4d6 SDC, 8d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flechettes*: 4d6 SDC, 8d6 SDC for a double-blast. Punches through the top 5 points of an AR for soft armor. For example, if a target has an AR of 12, the flechette rounds would only need a strike roll of 8 or better.
Standard Shot*: 5d6+2 SDC, 1d6x10 for a double-blast. CR 25 for a box of 50 shells.
Strung-Buck (Bolo)*: 8d6 SDC, 2d4x10+10 for a double-blast. 75' range.
Solid Slug*: 6d6 SDC, 1d6x10+10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 75 for a box of 50.
Buck & Ball*: Shell contains a fragmenting slug as well as some buckshot. 1d6x10 SDC to soft targets, 2d6x10 SDC for a double-blast. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including Mega-Damage creatures and objects). CR 90 for a box of 50.
Rocket Slug*: 1d6x10 SDC, 2d6x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 125 for a box of 50.
Armor Piercing Rocket Slug*: 1d4x10+10 SDC, 2d4x10+10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 200 for a box of 50.
Explosive Shells (SDC): 2d6x10 SDC to a 6' radius, or 4d6x10 to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 250 for a box of 50 shells.
Explosive Shells (Frag)*: 2d8 MD to a 5' radius, or 4d6 MD to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 140 per shell.
Little Dragon (Incendiary): Shoots a 75' blast of flame. 2d8 SDC to everything in the blast (3' radius), plus 45% chance of flammables igniting. 5d6+2 SDC to everything in the blast (6' radius) per double-blast, plus 88% chance of flammables igniting.
Dragon Spit (Incendiary): Slug ignites on impact. 4d6 SDC, plus a 50% chance of igniting flammables. 8d6 SDC for a double-blast, plus a 90% chance of igniting flammables.
Big Dragon (Plasma): 4d6 MD to a 3' diameter, or 1d4x10+5 MD to a 6' diameter for a double blast. CR 175 per shell.

8 Gauge Ammunition:
Pepper Blast:
Tear Gas:
Rubber Slug: 2d4+1 SDC, 3d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Rock Salt: 1d10 SDC to a 10' radius, 2d10 SDC to a 18' radius for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Taser Slug: 1d8 SDC, plus save vs. non-lethal poison or be incapacitated for 30 seconds. 70' range.
Buckshot*: 3d6 SDC to a 10' radius, 6d6 to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flare: 3d6 SDC per melee round, 6d6 SDC per melee round for a double-blast. Burns for 1d6 rounds. 500' range. CR 10 per flare.
Light Shot*: 5d6 SDC, 1d6x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flechettes*: 5d6 SDC, 1d6x10 SDC for a double-blast. Punches through the top 7 points of an AR for soft armor. For example, if a target has an AR of 14, the flechette rounds would only need a strike roll of 8 or better.
Standard Shot*: 6d6 SDC, 1d6x10+10 for a double-blast. CR 25 for a box of 50 shells.
Strung-Buck (Bolo)*: 1d6x10 SDC, 2d6x10 for a double-blast. 75' range.
Solid Slug*: 1d4x10 SDC, 2d4x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 75 for a box of 50.
Buck & Ball*: Shell contains a fragmenting slug as well as some buckshot. 2d4x10 SDC to soft targets, 2d6x10 +20 SDC for a double-blast. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including Mega-Damage creatures and objects). CR 90 for a box of 50.
Rocket Slug*: 2d4x10 SDC, 4d4x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 125 for a box of 50.
Armor Piercing Rocket Slug*: 1d6x10 SDC, 2d6x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 200 for a box of 50.
Explosive Shells (SDC): 4d4x10 SDC to a 7' radius, or 5d6x10 to a 12' radius for a double-blast. CR 250 for a box of 50 shells.
Explosive Shells (Frag)*: 3d6 MD to a 6' radius, or 6d6 MD to a 12' radius for a double-blast. CR 140 per shell.
Little Dragon (Incendiary): Shoots a 75' blast of flame. 3d6 SDC to everything in the blast (3' radius), plus 5% chance of flammables igniting. 5d6+2 SDC to everything in the blast (6' radius) per double-blast, plus 95% chance of flammables igniting.
Dragon Spit (Incendiary): Slug ignites on impact. 5d6 SDC, plus a 55% chance of igniting flammables. 1d6x10 SDC for a double-blast, plus a 95% chance of igniting flammables.
Big Dragon (Plasma): 5d6 MD to a 3' diameter, or 1d6x10 MD to a 6' diameter for a double blast. CR 175 per shell.

*Available as silver rounds. 1/2 range, x2 damage to vampires, x3 price.

looks good...very well thought out, good balance.

frogboy wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:looks good...very well thought out, good balance.

Palladium does ok on most of the range values for fire arm damage. The damage of most of them are over kill or not high enough. Anyone know how they come up with damage values for a given caliber ?

no clue...
probably the same way every other game company does...
Whatever sounds good.

Killer Cyborg wrote:Six .22 rounds would inflict 6d6 damage if each shot were made as a separate attack. Otherwise, Palladium would count it as a burst, and it would only do 2d6 damage.
So if you count a .33 cal pellet as doing the same damage as a 9mm round, then a burst of those pellets would end up doing 2d6x2 damage, which would come out to 4d6 damage.
Which happens to be the damage they came up with.

Apples and oranges. A burst has worse grouping because the weapon fires each round individually in rapid succession, and each individual shot moves the point of aim from the recoil. A shotgun would deliver all its pellets at the same time, unspoiled from the effects of recoil, (unless we're talking about an automatic shotgun, but let's not go there), hence why the burst rules are inapplicable. If they were allowed to use the burst rules, then a 3-1/2" shell of #4 Buckshot, firing a pattern of fifty-four .24 caliber pellets at 1,100 fps would qualify them to follow old machinegun burst rules and do 1D6x20.

Hmmm... maybe I'm writing myself into a direction I don't want to go here given the possibilities with a shell like that; however, since we're talking SDC and not MD, so I don't care all that much.

Dead Boy wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Six .22 rounds would inflict 6d6 damage if each shot were made as a separate attack. Otherwise, Palladium would count it as a burst, and it would only do 2d6 damage.
So if you count a .33 cal pellet as doing the same damage as a 9mm round, then a burst of those pellets would end up doing 2d6x2 damage, which would come out to 4d6 damage.
Which happens to be the damage they came up with.

Apples and oranges. A burst has worse grouping because the weapon fires each round individually in rapid succession, and each individual shot moves the point of aim from the recoil. A shotgun would deliver all its pellets at the same time, unspoiled from the effects of recoil, (unless we're talking about an automatic shotgun, but let's not go there), hence why the burst rules are inapplicable. If they were allowed to use the burst rules, then a 3-1/2" shell of #4 Buckshot, firing a pattern of fifty-four .24 caliber pellets at 1,100 fps would qualify them to follow old machinegun burst rules and do 1D6x20.

Since the burst/spray rules counted with laser weapons as well, and lasers have no recoil, it's pretty clear that they're not too picky about when and where the burst rules apply.
Basically, you make a decent argument for what the damage should] be, but if we want to start talking about that, we might just never stop.
The whole HP/SDC/damage system kinda needs an overhaul.

Hmmm... maybe I'm writing myself into a direction I don't want to go here given the possibilities with a shell like that; however, since we're talking SDC and not MD, so I don't care all that much.

Yup.