Who would win?

[MDGiest]

Not sure if this has been discussed before, but, opinions abound on this Im sure. Who would win in the follwoing Cross-Dimensional Wars:

1. Zentreadi* vs. Splynn/Splugorth
2. Robotech Masters* vs. Splynn/Splugorth
3. Invid Regis** vs. Splynn/Splugorth
4. Invid Regent** vs. Splynn/Splugorth
5. REF/Sentinels vs. Splynn/Splugorth
6. Zentreadi* vs. F.O.M.
7. Robotech Masters* vs. F.O.M.
8. Invid Regis** vs. F.O.M.
9. Invid Regent** vs. F.O.M.
10. REF/Sentinels vs. F.O.M.
11. Zentreadi Malcontents vs. Juicer Army of Libertaion

Notes:*I split up the Zentreadi and Robotech Masters since they are actually 2 seperate fighting forces...as far as I know there were never "joint" campaigns of both forces. **Obviously the Regis and Regent had some sort of marraige seperation and there forces are different enough in composition to need to categories I think.

[Killer Cyborg]

It all depends on the numbers involved.

[Gomen_Nagai]

Not sure if this has been discussed before, but, opinions abound on this Im sure. Who would win in the follwoing Cross-Dimensional Wars:

1. Zentreadi* vs. Splynn/Splugorth
2. Robotech Masters* vs. Splynn/Splugorth
3. Invid Regis** vs. Splynn/Splugorth
4. Invid Regent** vs. Splynn/Splugorth
5. REF/Sentinels vs. Splynn/Splugorth
6. Zentreadi* vs. F.O.M.
7. Robotech Masters* vs. F.O.M.
8. Invid Regis** vs. F.O.M.
9. Invid Regent** vs. F.O.M.
10. REF/Sentinels vs. F.O.M.
11. Zentreadi Malcontents vs. Juicer Army of Libertaion

Notes:*I split up the Zentreadi and Robotech Masters since they are actually 2 seperate fighting forces...as far as I know there were never "joint" campaigns of both forces. **Obviously the Regis and Regent had some sort of marraige seperation and there forces are different enough in composition to need to categories I think.

if it's a space battle, the zentraedi. if it's man to man, The Splugorth win.

the only thing the Zents had going for them were their long range weapon s and there were 40 BILLION of them.. spread through out the galaxy and millions of capital ships.

the Zents however, Could not repel a Slugorth Slaver mothership, if one should appear inside a Zent Territory, without fleeing into orbit and shooting it down from beyond the attack capabilites of the splugorth


Atlantis also has No shortage of Giant Minion and slave races. adaroks, Gargoyles, Metzlans come to mind. The zents would be VERY hard to defeat a single Metzlan let alone a city of them.

Zentraedi are hugely vulnerable to magic and psionics, which atlantis has plenty of.


The Masters lose vs the Splugorth... They simply do not have the numbers, and would quickly become another minion race.. their only hope would of been to annihilate from orbit any attack force, but being that they aren't giants, they are REALLY vulnerable to Atlantis Boarding parties. Rifts have no Limit, and neither does dimensional teleportation.


Regis vs the splugorth - Regis forces have no sensors vs Non Protoculture. They lose. horribly. The only hope is the Queen learns some magic that is useful and they only attack with their giant Beam cannons from space. They would lose every single land/sea/air battle.

Regent: still would lose, but Better off cause their Inorganics have decent weapons and can take punishment, their Cougars and Scribs and scorpion drop ships will allow the Regent's forces to fair a little better and maybe keep the splugorth from wiping them out. Regent also apparently understands the ways of war better, willing to outfit his invid with power armor similar to that of the REF.



REF vs Atlantis : Only in space battles, and only if they annihilate the Splugorth forces from beyond the range of the splugorth attack party.
Otherwise they are mercilessly slaughtered and culled. Their supersonic ability will let them stay ahead and run away.


Zentraedi vs the Federation of magic. ... the Zents win cause they can bombard the forces from orbit. Should the FOM ever get spies on board, the Zents are defeated from the magical forces they can bear upon any Zent vesel. Automatons can slaughter Hundreds of Zentraedi.

invid lose to the Federation of magic. Invid Alchemy is inferior to Technowizardry
Regent would fair alot better since his inorganics can slaughter wholesale the human practitioners in combat.

The Zentraedi malcontents vs Juicer liberation front..
the zents win. they can sit on any juicer and turn him into goo ( Automatic splat from weighing more then 10 tons then any juicer)

Dragon , mega, Delphi juicers might be able to keep the Giant Hordes from taking out their leadership. Juicers would run away. Zents might learn how to juice their own kind and create them in vaster numbers.

[Gomen_Nagai]

Zentraedi Giants Have their speed scores multiplied by 10. The average zent is faster then your fastest Juicer.

[Tiree]

Well if each side was in its heyday of power. Look at the Robotech Masters in SC, they were losing and on the decline. They needed protoculture, etc... You have a full force with enough Protoculture, I would state that the Robotech Masters could easily take out Splynn. Heck, if they weren't even caring about the earth they just would anihilate it - break the planet up. Robotech Masters Win!

So, I will agree that there is not enough information out there to be able to determine who would win, and by how much.

[Wildfire]

No since when can a regular slow regenerating force field repell a fussion/partical beem or Main gun.
The 3 PP-1 can cause they regent 5000 MDC every 3 seconds.
The main f=orce field of the SDF 1 0r 3 could not repell such an attack.
The RDF is the only one with sufficent tech for this.
Also the VF and later mecha are insanely agile and can standthier own in a space fight, especially the Super VF or Legios.
I will also argue that a cyclone is equall to a sepant armour.

Now magic you forget about the pertonian mystics who are engaged in a never ending mage duel on thier home planet they get reserected every moring and that would make them like 50th level mages

Granted all side have massive space fleets. the Robotech have the capital ship advantage especially with the Zents and the RMs if they had full power with all of those guns and the fact that even though they have less armour on thier mech they have thousands per ship somewhere like 100 mecha in a scout ship (if I am wrong my books are packed for moving so my appologies ahead of time)

just my view on this thread

[Tiree]

Hey Tetsuya, I dont need think out my post - I already know who would win...I know all sides equally well. Sit down and let the adults talk.

Because resorting to a personal attack rather than replying directly to all of the holes i shot in your logic is going to prove your point.

Its worked for everyone else, of course. Anyone remember Andy?

You might want to take a step back kiddo, and try refuting my argument, rather than trying to attack me personally. I blew holes in everything you said and your only comeback was "haha i know who would win mwahaha and i insult you to refute your logical argument!!! I am coooooollllll!!!!"

Yeah, didnt work for andy. Wont work for you.

Keep trying kiddo.

Isn't this the same thing as he did? Personal Attacks and all?

[Gomen_Nagai]

I don't see a Juicer surviving 60 tons of Giant Zent Foot on them. Do you?
heck most zents would only need to lay a pinky on the Juicer's head and keep him out of combat

PPS , Zents armed with blast rifles Can kill a juicer in 1 hit too
heck, Zents would only need to Punt the Juicers and never have to deal with them again.

[jedi078]

IMO

The only reason the Zents are seen as less powerful then Juicers is the fact that their mecha is grossly underrated RPG stats wise.

[Nxla666]

Zentraedi VS everybody listed= depends on when, Zent forces at full capacity, I would lean towards them, 4 million capital ships is a heck of a lot of cannon fodder.

Either Invid= billions of slug like creatures with an eagerness to die in the name of (insert leader here), I would have to lean towards them

REF VS Splugorth= I love the REF but I would have to say the nearly endless supply of minions would win out, but it would be a hell of a war.

Zents VS JLA= again are we talking entire army VS entire army, because there were thousands of malcontents, and besides in my opinion they would probably work together, maybe have some clashes but still they would decide to tear down the establishment together then kill each other.

Robotech Masters VS everybody= At full power they would just as likely blow the planet to atoms than fight fair.

[Novastar]

1. Zentreadi* vs. Splynn/Splugorth - the Zentraedi; while an agressive war-mongering race, they're too close to human for the writer's to let them lose.

2. Robotech Masters* vs. Splynn/Splugorth - the Robotech Masters; this is a toughy, two bad guys duking it out. But at their heyday, I think the RM could have taken on just about anything (even Old Ones...)

3. Invid Regis** vs. Splynn/Splugorth - Splugoroth; the Invid are too dependent on the Flower of Life, and most importantly, the Regis herself.

4. Invid Regent** vs. Splynn/Splugorth - Splugoroth; the Invid are too dependent on the Flower of Life, and most importantly, the Regent himself. Inorganics would make it a costlier war, but the Invid would still fall.

5. REF/Sentinels vs. Splynn/Splugorth - The easiest one to decide, the Sentinels. They're the "good guys".

6. Zentreadi* vs. F.O.M. - Zentraedi; orbital bombardment wins everytime.

7. Robotech Masters* vs. F.O.M. - Robotech Masters; orbital bombardment wins everytime.

8. Invid Regis** vs. F.O.M. - F.O.M.; they'd take out the Regis, thereby destroying the Invid will to war.

9. Invid Regent** vs. F.O.M. - F.O.M.; they'd take out the Regent, thereby destroying the Invid will to war.

10. REF/Sentinels vs. F.O.M. - an easy one to decide, the Sentinels. They're the "good guys".

11. Zentreadi Malcontents vs. Juicer Army of Libertaion - gotta back Tetsuya on this one. Both are guerilla armies, and the Juicers just have the advantage.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

1. Zentreadi* vs. Splynn/Splugorth
depends if breetei is leading then yes
2. Robotech Masters* vs. Splynn/Splugorth
Robotech masters
3. Invid Regis** vs. Splynn/Splugorth
as soon a splugorth spaceships show up the so do the clam ships Invid wins with swarm attacks
4. Invid Regent** vs. Splynn/Splugorth
same as above
5. REF/Sentinels vs. Splynn/Splugorth
Reflex cannons and main guns on the ref ship leave big holes on targets
6. Zentreadi* vs. F.O.M.
hey i got a mage on my boot
7. Robotech Masters* vs. F.O.M.
a big hole where city of brass once was
8. Invid Regis** vs. F.O.M.
wow the regis has some invid learn magic
9. Invid Regent** vs. F.O.M.
right like FOM really stands a chance
10. REF/Sentinels vs. F.O.M.
FOM teleports in , then ref mac3 Drum bombs teleport in what was once the city of Brass
11. Zentreadi Malcontents vs. Juicer Army of Libertaion
the Malcontents hands down

[Mech-Viper Prime]

He who masters the orbital bombardment is the master of the battle.

guess that means FOM is not that

[Gomen_Nagai]

one more thing about the Zentraedi Mal contents. The Zents only ever need Enough Female power armors and mini missiles and by golly they got that. They win. Meltrandi for the win!

go Zaria Go!
and the Zentraedi melee specialists can puree juicers. I don't see how a juicer is going to be able to FIRE let alone run away under 40 tons of one person.

Heck the zent does real mega damage just stepping on the Juicers, Since crushing damage on MDC beings is now prorated the same way as SDC Beings!
(and under the old system it was 2d4 MD per ton and at 40 - 60 tons, thats 2d4 x 40-60 MDC!)

[Gomen_Nagai]

the City of brass is not even located in the real world, it exists in the astral plane. you couldn't blast it from orbit even if you tried.

[Comrade Corsarius]

1. Zentreadi vs. Splynn/Splugorth

The Zents were the footsoldiers of the Masters. Remember that when they got to Earth, they were also in decline. At the height of the Master's power, the Zentraedi had ZILLIONS of numbers. The masters empire covered 2/3 of the galactic disc (this was mentioned in the RPG somewhere). Policing that and enforcing the masters will was the role of the Zentraedi, with the Masters as 'elite' troops. So therefore the Zents alone would be able to blacken the sky with enough ships to eclipse the sun of any system you care to name. I know that the Splugs have cool kittani tech, but the kittani space fighters aren't that hot (for gawd's sakes, a Naruni Broadsword is superior one-on-one to them). On the ground the splugs rule. They have armies of tattooed men (each one a superbeing, really) to throw away, but why bother when you can just lay waste to the entire planet from orbit? Sure, you'd lose ships to teleporting/rifting stuff, but then again, they have them to spare.

2. Robotech Masters vs. Splynn/Splugorth

Trickier. Less numbers, more elite, but otherwise the situation is as above. Lanchester's law applies with the largest amount of force applied at the schwerpunkt carrying the day. Dragon Dreadnaught. Ho hum. The masters are also are much more into examining the mystical link of the FOL. Who is to say that 'space fold' using protoculture is not a mechanised, localised, rift? IF this is the case, then the masters would be able to go quite a way to negating the magical advantages of the splugorth, and of course at the height of their power, they can easily engage any splugorth intelligence and minions they feel like. What are the resources of several systems to the resources of 2/3 of the galactic disc? The splugorth don't co-operate all THAT well with one another. The masters do. Game to the masters.

3. Invid Regis vs. Splynn/Splugorth

The Regis, while a bit of a dabbler in the mystic arts herself is in similar ways the superior of the masters. She would likely use the insane amounts of PPE (or whatever) is in protoculture. Not to say that she is a mage, but more that she is almost a deity in her own right, and she would use it intuitively. If we're playing 'empires' at the height of power, and the Invid have just toppled an empire of the masters (size: see above) then they can also bring incredible numbers to bear in one Swell Foop. (foop! here's another few million invid). I can see the battle being closer, but only because the Regis isn't so intelligent for a goddess, and her Invid are only slightly brighter than the common housebrick. Game to Regis, but by a much more narrow margin.

4. Invid Regent vs. Splynn/Splugorth

This bad boy loves war. But he's trapped by his lack of power compared to the Regis, and I'd say that he would understand magic and its properties a heck of a lot less. I really don't see what everyone else sees in Inorganics. They're quite useless, except the rather pathetic Odeon, and even then I don't think it would take the splugs too long to figure out that if you take out the 'brain', then you take out all inorganics in the area. Teleportation is kinda nasty, really. In a straight-up fight, then the Regent might win, but the splugs would use guile and rebel attacks. The Regis would be happy to use the Masters/Zentraedi/Star Wars Death Star school of 'vapourise it from orbit', but the Regent wants planets. This would be his downfall. Win to Splugorth.


5. REF/Sentinels vs. Splynn/Splugorth

Puny little fleet with barely the resources of one or two planets, only one ship (the SDF-3) with heavy charged particle weapons, versus a well organised enemy (if only one at a time) able to call on the absolute loyalty of several systems of minions (at each time). Game to the splugorth. The REF is MEANT to be the underdog, but in this case they are just meat, slaves, scrap metal, and some interesting tech for the kittani to pick over.

6. Zentreadi vs. F.O.M.

As above for the Zents. Zillions of ships and Googleplex of troops versus a pathetically small bunch of mages. Goodnight, Irene. Apart from escaping to other dimensions where the Zentraedi cannot follow (such as the city of brass), the FOM would not last a day.

7. Robotech Masters vs. F.O.M.

As above, but even more laughable, as the RM would eventually work out tech to allow them to travel to said dimensions.

8. Invid Regis vs. F.O.M.

Kaboom from the sky. Goodbye FOM. It went Foooooom....

9. Invid Regent vs. F.O.M.

Ditto.

10. REF/Sentinels vs. F.O.M.

A more even battle, but the REF/Sentinels still have numbers, better organisation (no infighting), superior technology, and magic of their own. This one is one that the REF can win.

11. Zentreadi Malcontents vs. Juicer Army of Libertaion

Well.... hmmm... seeing that this is really a 'joke' entry. I shall give a 'joke' answer. Zentraedi and humans are effectively the same. Ergo: Zentraedi can be 'juiced'. So I would like to present the idea of Titan Juicer Zentraedi Malcontents versus the JAL.....

[Gomen_Nagai]

is it just me, or that none of you "roboteknika" Fans are seriously going to expect every battle is going to involve orbital bombardment. if tolkeen can erect a Rift barrier shield, So Can all the other forces also mentioned, and tolkeen isn't very great (any more), and it won't involve orbital bombardment in every battle. The resources of old splyncryth (with his trillions of minions, ( and it was Return of the masters that pegged the Zents at 40 billion , not 1 googleplex ) pust the zents at a disadvantage, and the splugorth raiding parties can decimate the zents once even a single minion survives an orbital bombardment raid ... As splug invading forces can slaughter many times more zents inside their ships - and we all know every high lord can cast that Dimensional Rift spell and gain instant access to every ship the Zentraedis have available.



The same deal with the Federation of magic, and City of brass... Many casualties, but utlimately the core of the Federation is immune to Orbital assault, and the Mages would again have the PPE necessary to do incredibly evil things -- They could also always employ the Nazca to send a few Hummingbird Creatures to just shread any invading force.


The Invid vs anyone = They have NO targeting sensors vs anyone not using protoculture - until that changes, the only thing the invid can do is suicide tactics and hope they can bring to bare clam and star hives.

the inorganics are better cause they are tougher, able to kill SDC and MDC targets and are designed to kill humanoids, not just Protoculture

[Comrade Corsarius]

is it just me, or that none of you "roboteknika" Fans are seriously going to expect every battle is going to involve orbital bombardment. if tolkeen can erect a Rift barrier shield, So Can all the other forces also mentioned, and tolkeen isn't very great (any more), and it won't involve orbital bombardment in every battle. The resources of old splyncryth (with his trillions of minions, ( and it was Return of the masters that pegged the Zents at 40 billion , not 1 googleplex ) pust the zents at a disadvantage, and the splugorth raiding parties can decimate the zents once even a single minion survives an orbital bombardment raid ... As splug invading forces can slaughter many times more zents inside their ships - and we all know every high lord can cast that Dimensional Rift spell and gain instant access to every ship the Zentraedis have available.

Fair point, even if I don't entirely agree.

The same deal with the Federation of magic, and City of brass... Many casualties, but utlimately the core of the Federation is immune to Orbital assault

What is the core of the FoM? Dunscon? Stormspire? Dweomer? They are all infighting a lot of the time. Strength through unity.

and the Mages would again have the PPE necessary to do incredibly evil things -- They could also always employ the Nazca to send a few Hummingbird Creatures to just shread any invading force.

*baaaaap* wrong answer. We are talking the FoM, not the Nazca line markers. Last time I checked they didn't belong to the FoM.

The Invid vs anyone = They have NO targeting sensors vs anyone not using protoculture - until that changes, the only thing the invid can do is suicide tactics and hope they can bring to bear clam and star hives.

Both Enforcers and RCB mecha have targeting sensors that give bonuses against ALL targets, and then that stacks with the protoculture targeting. It's what makes them so dangerous.

the inorganics are better cause they are tougher, able to kill SDC and MDC targets and are designed to kill humanoids, not just Protoculture

The odeon is a lumbering sloth. Useless even in Assault except in insane numbers. It's the only one with worthwhile energy weapons, and it only has two attacks per melee.

Only one other inorganic type has a puny 3d6 laser. The rest of them rely on H-H, SDC weapons, or poison gas that doesn't work against beings in environmental armour. They are generally slow, fragile, tactically and operationally useless. Their only perk is that they cost next to nothing to produce, and as they crumble into dust after they are 'dead' they are environmentally-friendly and biodegradable.

[Tiree]

I want to clarify when I think of Orbital Bombardment on par with the RT Masters ships, that means they are destroying the planet. Unless FOM can put up a planet wide shield or enough where, what was it 5 RT Masters ships from using their main cannon - the planet is toast.

Maybe the question should be more of what would happen with X amount of Forces from Y side and Z side came against each other.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

You know, I always find this them vs them funny and pointless