Creating a Necromancer in Palladium Fantasy

[darthauthor]

Where is the Necromancer O.C.C. found in Palladium Fantasy?

I don't see it in the second edition.

Some passages suggest they are exclusive to the "Land of the Damned."

What I am really interested in is creating a Necromancer character in Palladium Fantasy.

[Veknironth]

Well, look no further than PFRPG book 18, Byzantium and the Nothertn Islands, page 152.

-Vek
"Available in the Palladium store and on Drivethru rpg at https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product ... nd-edition."

[Marcethus]

Wasn't it in Adventures on the High Seas as well?

[Library Ogre]

Wasn't it in Adventures on the High Seas as well?

It is indeed.

[darthauthor]

You are a fountain of information.

[GoliathReturns]

As others said, High Seas & Byzantium.

Also, as a personal suggestion, if you have the rifts Book of Magic, I'd allow the necromancer spells and bone magic from there. A lot have been copied over, but i like BoM for the ease and completeness.

--
GS

[Reagren Wright]

Unfortunately there are some stats of the Necromancer in Bizantium that are missing (Not my fault). Necromancers begin wilh 6 Necromancy spells and
6 common spells associated wilh necromancy. Additional spells and riluals related to Necromancy may be learned or pUIChased at any time regardless
of the character's experience level; however, the Necromancer does NOT obtain lhese automatically. A Necromancer begins with P.P.E._Equal to 2D4x 10
plus his P.E. attribute and gains 206 more P.P.E. per level of experience.

What's also missing from Adventures on High Seas and Bizantium. Bonuses: +10 S.D.C., +1 to save vs magic of all kinds (in addition to P.E. bonuses),
+2 to save vs Necromancy spells, +6 to save vs Horror Factor. O.C.C. Attribute bonuses from physical training and magic: +1 to M.E., P.E., and P.S., and
+4 to spd.

[Marcethus]

Unfortunately there are some stats of the Necromancer in Bizantium that are missing (Not my fault). Necromancers begin wilh 6 Necromancy spells and
6 common spells associated wilh necromancy. Additional spells and riluals related to Necromancy may be learned or pUIChased at any time regardless
of the character's experience level; however, the Necromancer does NOT obtain lhese automatically. A Necromancer begins with P.P.E._Equal to 2D4x 10
plus his P.E. attribute and gains 206 more P.P.E. per level of experience.

What's also missing from Adventures on High Seas and Bizantium. Bonuses: +10 S.D.C., +1 to save vs magic of all kinds (in addition to P.E. bonuses),
+2 to save vs Necromancy spells, +6 to save vs Horror Factor. O.C.C. Attribute bonuses from physical training and magic: +1 to M.E., P.E., and P.S., and
+4 to spd.

Is that an errata? Or did those bonuses come from another setting?

[Reagren Wright]

Yes it would be errata. They cut and pasted from Adventures on the High Sea, but they use the original print of AoHS 2nd edition which for whatever reason was missing the essentials, like P.P.E.and what spells you start with, and earn as you level up. The other stuff is what Necromancers "should"
come with since their is nothing different about them from the Rifts version. In fact, if they didn't have these bonuses, they would be the only Mage
O.C.C. that didn't have any bonuses to start with.

[GoliathReturns]

Additional spells and riluals related to Necromancy may be learned or pUIChased at any time regardless
of the character's experience level; however, the Necromancer does NOT obtain lhese automatically.

This has always bugged me- why don't they get more when they level up?

It doesn't make sense, from a game mechanic OR logic point.

Even if it's only one spell per level, from either the necro/bone magic list or from "wizard spells related to necromancy" list.

There really is no good reason they don't gain more spell knowledge when they level up.

Oh that 15th level necromancer? Well, he never had an opportunity to get spell knowledge from another necromancer, so he still only knows the spells he learned at level 1.

--
GS

[kiralon]

I use the netbook of necromancy to beef up my necromancers, and to make them more classic style.

[Franko Tyrador]

What is Netbook?

[kiralon]

many many moons ago there were compilations of rpg information that were effectively open source rpg supplements (for ad&d), the necromancer one was called the tome of the damned or something like it. There were many different types and still can be found

[Franko Tyrador]

Ah, thanks.

[GoliathReturns]

OK, since I'm prepping for an undead/Necromancer portion of my campaign, some thoughts for tweaks to the necromancer:

1) Starting at level 2, gains one spell per level, from the necro/bone magic/necro-related lists.
2) For a permanent sacrifice of PPE, Union of the Dead being permanent. Limit to one per even number of levels (IE, 1 @2, 2 @4, 3 @6, etc). Requires a permanent sacrifice of double the normal PPE cost (IE, rodent claws normally cost 10 PPE, for this, they would deduct 20 PPE from the necromancer's base PPE)
3) For a permanent PPE sacrifice, augmentation/additional appendages can be made permanent. Limit 1 per 4 levels. Requires a permanent sacrifice of triple the normal PPE cost.

4) This is an odd one for me... I'm thinking EITHER giving them access to the animate dead power circle, OR simply magnifying their animate dead ability up to something more powerful- like 30 or 50 per level.

Thoughts?

--
GS

[darthauthor]

I like the idea of making Union of the Dead an option to have it made permanent.

And I agree with it; especially for those Necromancers who lost their limbs in the Coalition's War on Tolkeen.

I would want a scale though.
Adding humans limbs might only cost 1 or 2 P.P.E. permanently.

In one extreme I had a game where a Necromancer replaced his arm with one from a Tattoo Man or Atlantean. I forgot which.

I forgot a lot of the game.

Bits and pieces. I think it was a long the lines of the necromancer had become enslaved and the party was either escape or rescue him.

Before he got 7 seven tattoos he still had his Necromancer powers.

I didn't know how to rule on the tattooed limbs. So I went with rule of cool. I also thought the character was being innovative and creative. Plus, I thought I could pull a GM move and take it away from him.

So, he actually had a good time flexing his new muscles and powers.
Felt very versatile.

I think they made it to the wilderness along side of the Atlantean Liberation Front or something. The one that works with Vampires in the Atlantis Book.

A lot of "Fish out of Water" and unlikely partner situations.

I guess I was loose with the rules in favor of the fun, and it worked out because we had fun.

Where I was orginally going is, GoliathReturns, GOOD ideas. I like your ideas.

I would add to it.

Let them do a ritual or use P.P.E. from a Ley Line, to make to lower the P.P.E. permanent sacrifice lower or at least graduated. So simple limb replaced me is cheap when taking a dead guys hand. While adding a Demon or Dragon arm is expensive.

[Library Ogre]

OK, since I'm prepping for an undead/Necromancer portion of my campaign, some thoughts for tweaks to the necromancer:

1) Starting at level 2, gains one spell per level, from the necro/bone magic/necro-related lists.
2) For a permanent sacrifice of PPE, Union of the Dead being permanent. Limit to one per even number of levels (IE, 1 @2, 2 @4, 3 @6, etc). Requires a permanent sacrifice of double the normal PPE cost (IE, rodent claws normally cost 10 PPE, for this, they would deduct 20 PPE from the necromancer's base PPE)
3) For a permanent PPE sacrifice, augmentation/additional appendages can be made permanent. Limit 1 per 4 levels. Requires a permanent sacrifice of triple the normal PPE cost.

4) This is an odd one for me... I'm thinking EITHER giving them access to the animate dead power circle, OR simply magnifying their animate dead ability up to something more powerful- like 30 or 50 per level.

I meant to answer this one.

1) I would limit them to just necro magic; bone and other specialty magics should, IMO, be rarer. But this is not a deal-breaker for me, just a preference.

2 & 3) I really like this.

4) I would lean towards a compromise space... not "get access to a circle", but "a special Necromancer ritual that lets them raise armies." Now, that ritual may precisely emulate the circle, because my objection stems not from the power of the ability, but from "I don't think necromancers should have access to non-necromancer, non-spell, magic, but can have access to Necromancy that looks like them." It's not, IMO, a semantic difference, but one that talks to how people use magic.

[GoliathReturns]

4) I would lean towards a compromise space... not "get access to a circle", but "a special Necromancer ritual that lets them raise armies." Now, that ritual may precisely emulate the circle, because my objection stems not from the power of the ability, but from "I don't think necromancers should have access to non-necromancer, non-spell, magic, but can have access to Necromancy that looks like them." It's not, IMO, a semantic difference, but one that talks to how people use magic.

That's more of the feel I was aiming for, which is why I said I was torn.

My thoughts are more of "it isn't the magic circle, but, in all regards, it's a ritual that is identical to the magic circle"

My reasoning is that the summoner's circle is actually MUCH more powerful than the actual abilities of the necromancer, which doesn't sit right with me.

--
GS

[Library Ogre]

My reasoning is that the summoner's circle is actually MUCH more powerful than the actual abilities of the necromancer, which doesn't sit right with me.

For most purposes, Necromancy is spell magic, and spell magic should seldom be as powerful as ritual magic, especially not ritual magic with components.

[Marcethus]

4) I would lean towards a compromise space... not "get access to a circle", but "a special Necromancer ritual that lets them raise armies." Now, that ritual may precisely emulate the circle, because my objection stems not from the power of the ability, but from "I don't think necromancers should have access to non-necromancer, non-spell, magic, but can have access to Necromancy that looks like them." It's not, IMO, a semantic difference, but one that talks to how people use magic.

That's more of the feel I was aiming for, which is why I said I was torn.

My thoughts are more of "it isn't the magic circle, but, in all regards, it's a ritual that is identical to the magic circle"

My reasoning is that the summoner's circle is actually MUCH more powerful than the actual abilities of the necromancer, which doesn't sit right with me.

--
GS

It kinda makes sense that the summoner's circle is more powerful than Necromancer spell magic. One: it's a ritual, Two it's one of the oldest forms of magic in the Palladium world.

My reasoning is that the summoner's circle is actually MUCH more powerful than the actual abilities of the necromancer, which doesn't sit right with me.

For most purposes, Necromancy is spell magic, and spell magic should seldom be as powerful as ritual magic, especially not ritual magic with components.

Agreed though in my thoughts replace seldom with never.

[GoliathReturns]

My reasoning is that the summoner's circle is actually MUCH more powerful than the actual abilities of the necromancer, which doesn't sit right with me.

For most purposes, Necromancy is spell magic, and spell magic should seldom be as powerful as ritual magic, especially not ritual magic with components.

Indeed, however-
"Any spell incantation from level seven and higher can be cast as a ritual, provided the user knows the ritual" (pg 184)

The basic wizard spell "animate and control dead" is a level 7 spell. As the necro ability is essentially the spell, but slightly more powerful, I see no problem with creating a ritual version that's even more potent.

Because, really, even the necro version makes necros weak. I'm an all powerful 15th level necromancer! Fear my undead army! Of 60 undead. That will terrorize your town! For 2 1/2 hours. Which, at their speed... means I can't even raise them until I'm within about 12 miles, otherwise they won't even last long enough to walk there.

A souped up ritual version, that's about on par with the circle, would make the necro a force to be feared.

--
GS
"Make Necromancers Scary Again"

[Marcethus]

My reasoning is that the summoner's circle is actually MUCH more powerful than the actual abilities of the necromancer, which doesn't sit right with me.

For most purposes, Necromancy is spell magic, and spell magic should seldom be as powerful as ritual magic, especially not ritual magic with components.

Indeed, however-
"Any spell incantation from level seven and higher can be cast as a ritual, provided the user knows the ritual" (pg 184)

The basic wizard spell "animate and control dead" is a level 7 spell. As the necro ability is essentially the spell, but slightly more powerful, I see no problem with creating a ritual version that's even more potent.

Because, really, even the necro version makes necros weak. I'm an all powerful 15th level necromancer! Fear my undead army! Of 60 undead. That will terrorize your town! For 2 1/2 hours. Which, at their speed... means I can't even raise them until I'm within about 12 miles, otherwise they won't even last long enough to walk there.

A souped up ritual version, that's about on par with the circle, would make the necro a force to be feared.

--
GS
"Make Necromancers Scary Again"

I can see that. As long as it has the appropriate costs and materials similar to the circle but it's a Necro only secret ritual.

[GoliathReturns]

I can see that. As long as it has the appropriate costs and materials similar to the circle but it's a Necro only secret ritual.

That's what I was thinking. Basically, just copying the summoner's circle

--
GS

[Marcethus]

I can see that. As long as it has the appropriate costs and materials similar to the circle but it's a Necro only secret ritual.

That's what I was thinking. Basically, just copying the summoner's circle

--
GS

I haven't looked at the book so I don't know the costs of the Materials for the Summoner's circle. I would modify the Materials to make it specific to the Necromancer. But have the cost of the Materials be nearly the same as the Summoner's circle.