Magic Weapons strength bonus?

[W.R.Xavier1]

Palladium Fantasy Questions:
I've been running a Palladium Fantasy Campaign for a short while now with mostly new players to the Genre and some "semi experienced" and inevitably lively discussion over rules come up as with an session. I'll be the first to admit sometimes reclarifying the same rules over 20 years of playing gets old but generally I have found that most players are good with rules house or as written so long as they are consistent. Recently I have been finding more players are wanting to be psuedo-intellectual and either want to split hairs and/or demand what source in Palladiums wide spread of material you are drawing from on the moment. Putting aside the whole how to handle it or DMs way or highway argument. I am more interested in the communities views on the mechanics (what book you draw your ruling from) and/or your feeling in players attempting to bypass the rules. Here are 2 scenarios for your entertainment and hopefully positive feedback.

First is more a question around Physical Strength (P.S.). When attacking creatures such as Vampires, Werewolves, or any other variety of monster that requires something such as a magic and/or silver sword, etc that when you hit the creature with the required object (say a magic sword) only the weapon damage is done to the creature and not your PS bonus if you have standard PS. The exception to this would be if your strength was Supernatural or some variation of that. What source material would you to point to to confirm or contradict that rule.

Second is more an argument of semantics. Circling back around to said previous question and magic weapons specifically. There are several players that now want to argue if you are going up against Vampires, etc that require a magic weapon you do not need to have a weapon that does magic damage but instead just put a magical effect on the weapon such as it now glows blue, and presto weapon it is now a weapon capable of dealing death to creatures that can only be damaged by magic weapons. When trying to explain the difference between magic effect and magic damage it fell on deaf, and instead I was accused of stealing player agency. Seriously making me think of just quitting gaming after 25+ years if this is the new standard of gaming. Anyhow I digress. Thoughts and feelings on this.

[kiralon]

I feel your pain good sir. I have had a fair few arguments with players about badly worded things. One thing to remember is that you are gaming to have fun, just like them. To reduce this i have made rulings that i have then written down for players to peruse as consistecy is important. Another thing i tell me beginner to palladium players that it isn't carefully checked over before release, and it was released many years ago but doesn't get errata, so you have to apply a bit of sense. If a beginner player comes to me saying hey, doing this totally clever idea prevents an enemy from surviving, i then point out that it applies to them too and they certainly haven't thought of that first. I haven't had a player cast carpet of adhesion for more than 10 years for example.

But to your first question, yes your bonus to damage is applied when using a magic weapon, when using it against creatures that can only be hurt by magic.

Enchanting a weapon to be blue is a magic weapon property, so it makes it magical so does work, its not like other games where it says you need a specific bonus to do it, just that the weapon has to be magical. However remember you control the commonality of magic, if they are out in the countryside the chances of finding a magic weapon is low, and if in a city they might need to get one made.

I have a lot of house rules but they are for first ed, im happy to share so you can see what might give you some grief. Wait until the players get into simultaneous paired weapon strikes with battleaxes.

[W.R.Xavier1]

Certainly appreciate the feedback and always welcome new info from others in the community that could enhance the game play. Would you have any specific sources within the plethora of books that might point out one way or another where the PS bonus is added in. I always took it the other way from rifts such as if I hit a mdc monster with an MDC weapon the weapon will of course do damage but not my ps bonus unless its supernatural. It always felt MDC was just a tiday way to combine High SDC & MDC for simplicity of gameplay in a more magic environment or high tech. But that the principle would carry over from SDC to MDC or vice versa.

[kiralon]

Its just the page 43 of the main book under combat damage.
Palladium is similar to rifts but isnt exactly the same, and applying rifts rulings can confuse things occasionally.
The damage done in palladium is always sdc level, so any sdc damage done with a hth weapon gets the damage bonus, also note that i say damage bonus as hand to hand styles can also give bonuses to damage, so can other skills like riding, these are all added.
Supernatural strength in palladium is being magically strong so you do more damage when you hit something and can also lift way more, but this damage is still sdc damage, and isn't a different damage scale.

[Veknironth]

Well, I'll echo here what I wrote on Facebook. In both cases, the players are correct. As Kiralon said, all of the sources of increased damage would apply as well as PS.

Here is a test case. In the Dragons and Gods book, priests of light and dark can cast a spell to bless a weapon for a day. It's on page 137. Would that make the weapon "magic" for that duration? I always thought of holy weapons as magic, but I suppose you could parse that. Anyhow, the spell has 4 options, two of which do extra damage and two of which do not.

Another example is from the Arms of Nargash Tor adventure, which is admittedly 1st Edition. In that keep there is a place into which you can dip weapons and it will make said weapon magic for 1d4 days, doesn't add any bonused to strike, parry, or to damage.

-Vek
"I bet even Prysus wouldn't have pulled out the Nargash Tor reference!"

[W.R.Xavier1]

Definitely appreciate all the feedback from everyone and am glad to see the community is on here and FB to help answer questions. Makes decision making alot easier on judgement calls when there is good feedback with nobody tied directly into the game.

[Library Ogre]

First is more a question around Physical Strength (P.S.). When attacking creatures such as Vampires, Werewolves, or any other variety of monster that requires something such as a magic and/or silver sword, etc that when you hit the creature with the required object (say a magic sword) only the weapon damage is done to the creature and not your PS bonus if you have standard PS. The exception to this would be if your strength was Supernatural or some variation of that. What source material would you to point to to confirm or contradict that rule.

My answer to this has always been yes. The sword lets you do the damage, but your muscle still matters.

Second is more an argument of semantics. Circling back around to said previous question and magic weapons specifically. There are several players that now want to argue if you are going up against Vampires, etc that require a magic weapon you do not need to have a weapon that does magic damage but instead just put a magical effect on the weapon such as it now glows blue, and presto weapon it is now a weapon capable of dealing death to creatures that can only be damaged by magic weapons.

Here, we have also always argued yes. Something like "Color" is "I need a magic weapon, and can't afford anything else." It's not just cosmetic... it is the bargain-basement magic weapon, a step above silver.

[GoliathReturns]

Im going to echo Vek and Ogre. In both of these cases, I'm siding with the player.

For the PS bonus, think of it like this- the magical weapon let's you get through the "protection" of the creature, but the damage you do past that is like normal.

Any enchantment, temporary or permanent, makes the item magical. It doesn't matter if it's a magically colored dagger, a frying pan that perfectly sautees onions, a greatest rune weapon, or a mace that's had a blessing prayer placed on it.


--GS
Don't overthink it. The simplest answer is usually right (no, that's not Occam's Razor)