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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:13 am
  

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Wanderer

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In the Palladium Robotech RPG 2nd. Edition, where does it state how many attack/actions it takes to transform between modes in a mech? From fighter to guardian to battloid, etc.

I have been unable to locate this in the rules so far.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:56 pm
  

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daddystabz wrote:
In the Palladium Robotech RPG 2nd. Edition, where does it state how many attack/actions it takes to transform between modes in a mech? From fighter to guardian to battloid, etc.

I have been unable to locate this in the rules so far.

Y'know, I don't recall seeing any rule about that in the core book either.

The interpretation I can think of that would be most consistent with how RAW presents most special melee actions would be that transforming takes one melee action, the same as a dodge move. Under some circumstances in the animation, I would say it could even count AS a dodge move in some cases.

Many Palladium-based Macross homebrews explicitly make transformation a free action, citing the extremely fast (~1s) transformation times for most VFs. I generally agree with that view, but with the exceptions of the VF-1A up to Block 5 (where the transformation control was a separate board that required you to take your hand off the throttle lever) and the VB-6 Konig Monster (which takes a lot longer in animation).

For Robotech, I would generally argue in favor of transformation being 1 melee action for the same reason as above... the transformation control is invariably a separate control you have to take a hand off the throttle lever to manipulate. I'd say the Beta and Cyclone would require 2 melee actions since the Beta is big and slow and the Cyclone requires a runup, but I'd count the cyclone's as an automatic dodge because it has to do a running jump.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:50 pm
  

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I looked for this last month when I was preparing for a convention game and I came to mostly the same conclusions.
Seto Kaiba wrote:
daddystabz wrote:
In the Palladium Robotech RPG 2nd. Edition, where does it state how many attack/actions it takes to transform between modes in a mech? From fighter to guardian to battloid, etc.

I have been unable to locate this in the rules so far.

Y'know, I don't recall seeing any rule about that in the core book either.

The interpretation I can think of that would be most consistent with how RAW presents most special melee actions would be that transforming takes one melee action, the same as a dodge move. Under some circumstances in the animation, I would say it could even count AS a dodge move in some cases.

Many Palladium-based Macross homebrews explicitly make transformation a free action, citing the extremely fast (~1s) transformation times for most VFs. I generally agree with that view, but with the exceptions of the VF-1A up to Block 5 (where the transformation control was a separate board that required you to take your hand off the throttle lever) and the VB-6 Konig Monster (which takes a lot longer in animation).

For Robotech, I would generally argue in favor of transformation being 1 melee action for the same reason as above... the transformation control is invariably a separate control you have to take a hand off the throttle lever to manipulate. I'd say the Beta and Cyclone would require 2 melee actions since the Beta is big and slow and the Cyclone requires a runup, but I'd count the cyclone's as an automatic dodge because it has to do a running jump.

My one disagreement is the Cyclone. I have it take one melee action to transform into Battle armor mode but a full melee round to turn back into a motorcycle.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:08 pm
  

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I would not put any transformation sequence at more than a melee action (special case, cyclone the driver needs to unsuit before transformation can be completed).

I'd probably allow most players 1 free change if form per melee, but the res start to cut into available actions.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:27 pm
  

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Warshield73 wrote:
My one disagreement is the Cyclone. I have it take one melee action to transform into Battle armor mode but a full melee round to turn back into a motorcycle.

The reason I recommend two for the Cyclones/MOSPEADAs is because the driver has to jump the bike to transform from Armored Bike to Ride Armor mode... as I see it, the jump is one action and the transformation another since it takes ~5 seconds or so. Transforming back requires coming to a complete halt, dropping to their knees, releasing the armor, and then pulling it back up into a bike, so I think that probably justifies two. More would be asking them to be a sitting target. It's not a mecha that'll be given to transforming a lot in battle, so they'll likely only lose just the two melee actions for the entire duration of the fight unless they opt to retreat.

That said, for at least the transformation TO armor, I would treat the entire transformation as an attempted dodge melee action just because the bike is moving at considerable speed and jumping.



Jefffar wrote:
I'd probably allow most players 1 free change if form per melee, but the res start to cut into available actions.

For my games, I've limited it to two since the animation has a lot of instances of switching to one mode for a second as part of a dodge and then switching again a few seconds later to return fire.

(It's also limited to prevent abuse of special house rules like energy converting armor in my case.)

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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:44 pm
  

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I personally would keep the transformation sequence to an action or a free action. Mainly because it doesn't make sense to make the process take longer.

I just looked at the transformation sequence to a Valkyrie in Macross 0? (VF-0) and it takes 27 seconds from the time he hits the trigger for the transformation, for it to be fully transformed. That's 2 full melee's. But in Robotech Blitzkrieg, it shows both the transformation from Guardian to Battloid and Jet to Guardian to Battloid to both take 2 seconds each.

So my take on the cyclones is that it's part of the filler. There are scenes where they pop the PA right off in a second. I want to say there are scenes where it's much quicker than the jump and transform. It doesn't need much movement in order to transform.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:54 pm
  

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Seto Kaiba wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
My one disagreement is the Cyclone. I have it take one melee action to transform into Battle armor mode but a full melee round to turn back into a motorcycle.

The reason I recommend two for the Cyclones/MOSPEADAs is because the driver has to jump the bike to transform from Armored Bike to Ride Armor mode... as I see it, the jump is one action and the transformation another since it takes ~5 seconds or so. Transforming back requires coming to a complete halt, dropping to their knees, releasing the armor, and then pulling it back up into a bike, so I think that probably justifies two. More would be asking them to be a sitting target. It's not a mecha that'll be given to transforming a lot in battle, so they'll likely only lose just the two melee actions for the entire duration of the fight unless they opt to retreat.

That said, for at least the transformation TO armor, I would treat the entire transformation as an attempted dodge melee action just because the bike is moving at considerable speed and jumping.


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Sailor Senshi: :shock: "Oh shi-"

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:07 am
  

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Tiree wrote:
I just looked at the transformation sequence to a Valkyrie in Macross 0? (VF-0) and it takes 27 seconds from the time he hits the trigger for the transformation, for it to be fully transformed. That's 2 full melee's.

You missed that they show the same transformation twice... the first time it's dramatically slowed down to show every little moving part doing its thing and takes about 30 seconds of screen time, then they immediately show the same transformation again in real time where it only takes about a second. That's why a lot of Macross homebrews make transformation a free action.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:18 am
  

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Seto wrote:
Y'know, I don't recall seeing any rule about that in the core book either.

2E Books don't mention it AFAIK. I know 1E mentions it in regard to the cyclone (specifically, might count toward everyone), and Macross 2 RPG did as well. Both out dated references where 1 action.

Seto wrote:
For Robotech, I would generally argue in favor of transformation being 1 melee action for the same reason as above... the transformation control is invariably a separate control you have to take a hand off the throttle lever to manipulate. I'd say the Beta and Cyclone would require 2 melee actions since the Beta is big and slow and the Cyclone requires a runup, but I'd count the cyclone's as an automatic dodge because it has to do a running jump.


The Cyclone does not require a runup/jump. "Ep63. Lonely Solider Boy" (or NG/OSM #3). Both Rand and Rook transform their respective Cyclones while parked. I do agree the Cyclone takes an action (pilot body positioning being a thing). Even going from Armor to Bike mode is shown to be done fast.

The Beta transforms what a total of 3 times from F to B? Ep 82 is ~7seconds, Ep 83 and Ep85 it does so in under 2seconds. Ep82 might just be one of those "glamor" shots that slow things down to watch given its the first time it transforms.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:33 am
  

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For my game, I recently adopted rolling on the Pilot skill for the mecha. A successful roll means that the transformation requires no action. A failed roll means that it takes one action to complete.

The idea behind this is that a skilled pilot may be able to maneuver the mecha in ways that can assist in transformation (using momentum and such).

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