Original MDC

[wyrmraker]

In the Triax 2 book, page 70, it was declared that Triax Industries developed the first Mega-Damage material in 2050, which weighed in at almost 3 tons for a 12 inch cube of the stuff. Completely disregarding the stupidly inconvenient mess of making something out of the stuff that might be useful, what would you guys think would be the comparable MDC of making something out of such a material? Like, not as hard numbers, as such, but by area/thickness, what percentage or multiplier might be appropriate for such a calculation?

[Vincent Takeda]

what does that make it.. only 2.5 times more dense than gold? and heck. gold's not that hard to work with. so weight density and pliability is probably exactly why its such great armor. it absorbs all the impact. Military grade oobleck.

[wyrmraker]

Triax had to alloy the stuff with ceramics and such to make it lightweight enough to actually be able to make something usable out of it, by the book.

[eliakon]

Triax had to alloy the stuff with ceramics and such to make it lightweight enough to actually be able to make something usable out of it, by the book.

So it might be a layercake . Layers of Mega-Ooblek on a ceramic substrate.

[wyrmraker]

So, no suggestions? Bummer.

[glitterboy2098]

what does that make it.. only 2.5 times more dense than gold? and heck. gold's not that hard to work with. so weight density and pliability is probably exactly why its such great armor. it absorbs all the impact. Military grade oobleck.

gold gets you 1,206.11 pounds for a cubic foot, or about .6 tons.
Osmium (the densest element known) gets you .7 tons.

so this stuff is way denser than even the densest material we've had direct contact with.

but it isn't on par with nuetronium, at ~2 billion tons per cubic inch. so there is that.

[Zer0 Kay]

what does that make it.. only 2.5 times more dense than gold? and heck. gold's not that hard to work with. so weight density and pliability is probably exactly why its such great armor. it absorbs all the impact. Military grade oobleck.

Yeah... just like gold absorbs bullets in aheets... oh wait it doesn't. Why would you assume density equals pliability.

Oh look it's a giant robot fight... well fortunately all we have to do is hammer it out.

[eliakon]

what does that make it.. only 2.5 times more dense than gold? and heck. gold's not that hard to work with. so weight density and pliability is probably exactly why its such great armor. it absorbs all the impact. Military grade oobleck.

Yeah... just like gold absorbs bullets in aheets... oh wait it doesn't. Why would you assume density equals pliability.

Oh look it's a giant robot fight... well fortunately all we have to do is hammer it out.

Because many MDC materials are consistently presented as pliable?
So we know that its absurdly dense, that it has some bizarre physical properties that make oobleck look simple and logical, and that its apparently able to be used in Ceramics, Metals, Plastics and composites... either as additiives or that you can get the same properties with all of the above... maybe both suggesting that it may be a seperate substance or it is some sort of new form of hyperdense matter or something even more bizzare.

Other than that we dont know much of anything.

[glitterboy2098]

the impression i got was less that all MDC materials use the super dense metal, and more that they could apply the same special atomic bonds and molecule structures which that produced that superdense material to non-metals and gain some of the same special traits.

[ShadowLogan]

In the Triax 2 book, page 70, it was declared that Triax Industries developed the first Mega-Damage material in 2050, which weighed in at almost 3 tons for a 12 inch cube of the stuff. Completely disregarding the stupidly inconvenient mess of making something out of the stuff that might be useful, what would you guys think would be the comparable MDC of making something out of such a material? Like, not as hard numbers, as such, but by area/thickness, what percentage or multiplier might be appropriate for such a calculation?

Don't have Triax2, do the say how much MDC the 3ton of the 12inch^3 had?

I would note that MercOps has MDC Concrete and MDC metallic sheets given in area, not volume. This might help with what you are looking for.

Not quite sure what you are looking for, but I don't think there would be an easy adaption given that when it comes to MDC Palladium seems to have several "scales" in place as it relates to mass, so depending on the application you are looking at a value changes (for ex. most Body armor has an MDC/mass ratio of >1.0, Giant Robots 1<).

[Zer0 Kay]

what does that make it.. only 2.5 times more dense than gold? and heck. gold's not that hard to work with. so weight density and pliability is probably exactly why its such great armor. it absorbs all the impact. Military grade oobleck.

Yeah... just like gold absorbs bullets in aheets... oh wait it doesn't. Why would you assume density equals pliability.

Oh look it's a giant robot fight... well fortunately all we have to do is hammer it out.

Because many MDC materials are consistently presented as pliable?
So we know that its absurdly dense, that it has some bizarre physical properties that make oobleck look simple and logical, and that its apparently able to be used in Ceramics, Metals, Plastics and composites... either as additiives or that you can get the same properties with all of the above... maybe both suggesting that it may be a seperate substance or it is some sort of new form of hyperdense matter or something even more bizzare.

Other than that we dont know much of anything.

It is Rifts... I'll go with more Bizarre.

[Eagle]

I never got the impression that mega-damage materials were super dense at all. The original SAMAS suit only weighs like 350 lbs or something.

[guardiandashi]

I was always under the impression that MDC materials were special but until relatively recently I didn't think about the actual mechanical effects of why.

with that said I remember reading a long time ago about the glitterboys special chromium armor and other forms of MDC (other than the "plasticman" ) and always felt that a core part of it enhanced molecular bonding, or similar.

basically my background had a bit of strength of materials stuff in it so I could imagine that a big part of MDC was they managed to break the normal rules of material strength limits.

now one possibility that comes to mind is the mythbusters episode where they tried to make a car bulletproof with phone books. in which their result were very interesting to me.
when they put the phone books on the outside of the car you could literally have a foot or more of paper as "armor" and it essentially did nothing. but if you put the phone books inside the sheet metal of the car, all of a sudden they massively made a difference.

which comes back to a thought about mdc armor what if mdc armor is that super tough "skin" layer backed up with more conventional materials in most cases? the superhard skin on itself really doesn't provide all that much protection but when backed up by other material it disrupts incoming attacks enough that the "weaker" materials can actually handle the attack (essentially it reduces it grom mdc (or armor piercing) to more of a normal or blunt attack that the material can stop.

[Jorick]

I'm not an engineer or chemist or anything relevant, but doesn't recent work with carbon in advanced materials (graphene, graphite, nanotubes, etc.) make a lot of this MDC stuff relatively sensible (as far as sci-fi stuff goes)? Couldn't we look there an come up with "explanations" for MDC alloys, ceramics, and other materials, and imagine possible descriptions of their properties (density, etc.)? Like, if we really feel we have to?

[Shorty Lickens]

heavy does not mean strong. Hardness is a better indicator of strength and that doesnt come from mass, it comes from a sturdy crystal structure. Diamonds have a high hardness because of their perfect carbon crystal structure.

I'd think mega damage materials would be similar, not always heavy but rigid crystal structures.

[Zer0 Kay]

heavy does not mean strong. Hardness is a better indicator of strength and that doesnt come from mass, it comes from a sturdy crystal structure. Diamonds have a high hardness because of their perfect carbon crystal structure.

I'd think mega damage materials would be similar, not always heavy but rigid crystal structures.

So what element has a harder structure than carbon? Is it possible to then perfectly align those molecules like diamond thereby making something stronger than a diamond?

[Shorty Lickens]

Theres a difference between a pure element and a molecule just made of one element. But if I had to guess, those rare earth elements like uranium are probably harder.

[glitterboy2098]

Diamond is the hardest natural material on earth, due to its rigid molecular lattice structure. Though the common form is actually not the hardest anymore. (there is a rare form almost twice harder still due to a slightly different lattice structure.)

Various man made metamaterials have proven harder but difficult to make.

Uranium and other transuranics are denser, but much more malleable.

Triax's mdc material is basically them giving those denser metals a diamond like structure.

[Shorty Lickens]

I wish we could LIKE posts here.

[Killer Cyborg]

I wish we could LIKE posts here.

[Zer0 Kay]

Diamond is the hardest natural material on earth, due to its rigid molecular lattice structure. Though the common form is actually not the hardest anymore. (there is a rare form almost twice harder still due to a slightly different lattice structure.)

Various man made metamaterials have proven harder but difficult to make.

Uranium and other transuranics are denser, but much more malleable.

Triax's mdc material is basically them giving those denser metals a diamond like structure.

That's the way I was thinking except not so far. Maybe Chromium is actually Chromium (Cr) the element perfectly played down by artificial means? Maybe the other armor is
Si and The super cheap nick off company who's name I cant remember uses an Aligned Aluminium. Or maybe normal MDC is Sc, Ti or V? And this weird malleable MDC stuff is something extra super weird... crystalized gas that cant normally be a solid except by freezing... but we found a way and it makes malleable MDC. Hmm

[glitterboy2098]

Triax 2 says that an american company mixed Chromium into whatever combination triax used for their MDC metal to produce an armor that was both stronger and reflective... yeah i don't know what the hell is going on there either. and did Triax make their MDC formula open source or something? because usually something that revolutionary is not easily reverse engineered. hell Chobam armor is still classified and the exact specs only known to a handful of people. and that is from the freaking 60's. how you got a ton of people knocked off Triax's MDC methods in only a few years is bizzare.

[Sohisohi]

Triax 2 says that an american company mixed Chromium into whatever combination triax used for their MDC metal to produce an armor that was both stronger and reflective... yeah i don't know what the hell is going on there either. and did Triax make their MDC formula open source or something? because usually something that revolutionary is not easily reverse engineered. hell Chobam armor is still classified and the exact specs only known to a handful of people. and that is from the freaking 60's. how you got a ton of people knocked off Triax's MDC methods in only a few years is bizzare.

Don't forget that during the Golden Age of man there was a free flow of knowledge and research, especially during the start. Only later/post GA do we see some technology held due to mistrust between the super states of humanity.

[eliakon]

Triax 2 says that an american company mixed Chromium into whatever combination triax used for their MDC metal to produce an armor that was both stronger and reflective... yeah i don't know what the hell is going on there either. and did Triax make their MDC formula open source or something? because usually something that revolutionary is not easily reverse engineered. hell Chobam armor is still classified and the exact specs only known to a handful of people. and that is from the freaking 60's. how you got a ton of people knocked off Triax's MDC methods in only a few years is bizzare.

Don't forget that during the Golden Age of man there was a free flow of knowledge and research, especially during the start. Only later/post GA do we see some technology held due to mistrust between the super states of humanity.

And that espionage was a booming business (all those Juicers and MOMs were apparently involved in lots of intrigue)
Oh, and those MoMs and the mutant animals (we have two projects in South America, Lone Star, Tritonia, and all the mutant animals in Orbit) brought Psi-Powers to the table as well