Blue_Lion wrote:Wait you now saying that a special emphasis is not needed to state a missile can do called shots when we have a rule that says they always strike the main body?
"all missiles always hit" only makes sense if referring to strike attempts, as missing/dodged/parried/blocked/shot missiles don't damage the main body.
Blue_Lion wrote:Seams to me the rule to always strike the main body means a called shot for missiles would explicectly need something sayin a missile can do a called shot.
The restriction is for missiles which make strike rolls, not missiles which NEED strike rolls from a pilot, like unguided mini-missiles. For those who are unclear about what 362 initially meant, 363 clarifies it by re-affirming missiles can make called shots and that mini-missiles need strike rolls (they don't make them, others do).
Blue_Lion wrote:(Note always striking the main body is not the same as always striking when a rule after it says any roll above a 4 (5-20) strikes any roll 4 or below missis.)
That rule is for missiles acting on their own, since what they ram into isn't ranged combat. The 8+ replaces when someone else is using the missile to do the striking.
Blue_Lion wrote:The state ment does not have the limited accuacty you claim it does as the other ways avoid it are covered separately. Treating them like special cases to change the default, so the default has no reason.
I'm having difficulty understanding this part, may work better if rephrased with reminders as to which item is which.
Blue_Lion wrote:The only place a mini missile could do a called shot to would be the main body, there are times that you need a called shot to hit the main body. One of the main bodies on the CS fling base can only be hit with a called shot to the main body. given the only place a missile can strike is the main body any successful strike is to the main body,
There is no rule saying that missiles can ONLY strike the main body.
The text is "always hit the main body".
Blue_Lion wrote:shooting it down and block sacrifice are special cases with rules just for them, not the norm.
Are you arguing that "all" and "always" are referring to norms and not to absolutes?
I can dig that.
In which case: hitting the main body is indeed the norm and called shots are also special cases with rules just for them.
Blue_Lion wrote:By the rules the GBK can not shoot the boom gun of the GB, that is a conflict with a rule written later.
There is no conflict. There is no inability to make called shots with mini-missiles. There is no stated inability for those called shots to hit things that are not the main body.
The 'all missiles always hit the main body' is ambiguous, capable of being read multiple ways. Ways which conflict with game canon (GBK plasmaing boomguns) are disqualified interpretations.
Blue_Lion wrote:(as was pointed out it was never a rule but a tactic or flavor text and never changed the rules but was a reference to something from an obsolete rule. Just because text in a old book references a out dated rule does not change the currant rules.)
A canonical tactic is a game reality. It is unacceptable for you to arbitrarily classify any canon you dislike as 'flavor text' and ignore its relevance when evaluating the world.
Blue_Lion wrote:Unless you have something from RUE or later that says mini-missiles can do called shots or strike other areas than the main body they can only hit the main body in currant rules.
What are your opinions on torpedos and called shots?
Blue_Lion wrote:******So let me ask you straight up does any text say mini-missiles can be used to do called shots to locations other than the main body?(We have text that says missile strikes are always to the main body so you would need something to counter that text.)
The 'missile strikes' as you put them, is describing strikes made by missiles.
The Ranged Combat rules say that a WP allows you to make a called shot and hit things besides the main body. That is all you need.
If KS had intended any exceptions to this for mini-missiles, we would've seen that there, given that he had just finished discussing mini-missiles on the final WP above it on the page's left column.
HWalsh wrote:As a house rule a GM could rule this (I'd leave the game if they did and offer to run for the players if they would leave the GM's table because he doesn't understand the unbalancing nature of allowing that) but by the standard rules this can never be ruled as such as it violates RUE as well as the FAQ on the matter.
It does violate the FAQ, but that doesn't have the most stellar reputation. Aren't there places where RUE violates the FAQ?
I don't see anywhere in RUE it mentions that things besides the main body don't take damage from area effect attacks.
It's not hugely unbalancing: if a 10-missile volley was shot down by the GB it wouldn't be any worse, most GB will try that anyway to avoid the massive damage to the main body which would take a ridiculous amount of money and time to repair.
HWalsh wrote:to state that Palladium never differentiates fluff and flavor text from rules is not correct. Even Seimbiada has said, for example, that Psi-Shields are great for blocking energy blasts... Even though Psi-Shields cannot do this as of RUE.
You are referring to RUE 180's "The shield can not be use to parry energy blasts or projectiles".
There is no "as of RUE". This sentence was always there. Check RMB p 126.
Verb conjugation problems in the 2nd-last sentence aside, note the plurality of "blasts" and "projectiles". It doesn't contradict the "Dodging and Parrying Energy Blasts" rule on page 10 of the Conversion Book (19 of revised) which clarifies that this sentence is only referring to bursts, which cannot be parried.
HWalsh wrote:Under Psi-Shield RUE pg. 180 it specifically says that a Psi-Shield cannot be used to parry energy blasts or projectiles.
Under RUE pg. 346 it specifically states under Parry that energy blasts and bullets cannot be parried as a rule.
RUE 346 is also not anything new. RMB p 35: "NOTE: Bullets and energy attacks cannot be parried"
This is still plural, and still only referring to stopping multiple shots in a single parry. You can't parry an entire burst, only an individual shot.
There has never been a conflict between RMB+Conversion or RUE+Revised:
RMB 35/126 says you can't parry energy and psi-shields can't parry energy blasts
Conversion Book 10 says the psi-shield can parry an individual shot
Conversion Book Revised 19 repeats, though alters a bit
RUE 180/346 basically just reprints the RMB text, it exists in the same synergy with the conversion books.
The conversion books have always clarified that the core book restrictions do not apply to individual shots, they are a restriction against bursts and other cases of multiple shots coming at you simultaneously (like for example, two 3D6 lasers hitting for 6D6, like you see on some bots)
HWalsh wrote:If Axelmania's statements were true, then, in this case, there would be no conflict. This isn't an optional rule and it specifically calls out certain OCCs. Under the argument that previous fluff and flavor text and previous rules both Psi-Shields and Psi-Swords can, in fact, parry energy blasts. Cyber-Knights can just do it period as long as they have a suitable item with which to do so.
Axel's interpretation, however, isn't very widely accepted. I'm pretty sure it is incorrect.
The sureness is misplaced, you can't arbitrarily throw out the Conversion Books' clarification just because they disagree with your misinterpretation about the text restricting energy blasts' parrying, yet do not restrict the parrying of singular blasts in any way.
HWalsh wrote:Heck, if we go onto page CB1 page 11 the CK parries an energy blast
with his bonuses intact:
Antagonist X, a cyber-knight, attempts to parry the blast and rolls a 14 (bonuses included).
I'm not seeing the problem here with bonuses being intact. I don't recall the original conversion book having any bonus-nullification (or even a penalty) to parry bullets or energy blasts.
Pg 19 of the revised conversion book did introduce a massive penalty as well as bonus nullification, but then introduced a list of exceptions to the latter limitation who kept their bonuses, which included the cyber-knight.
HWalsh wrote:Would I love for my CK to be able to parry energy blasts without penalties or spending an action to dodge with an indestructible Psi-Sword? HECK YES I WOULD! However the rules don't allow that.
Sure they do, there is no rule preventing parrying a singular bullet or energy blast. Page 19 of the revised conversion book explicitly explains you can do it, in case people came away with the core books with the wrong impression.
HWalsh wrote:Much like, as nice as it would be for a GBK to be able to aimed shot a Boom Gun with a missile from outside of BG range, it ain't happening because it ain't allowed.
Of course that isn't happening, Boom guns have a range of 11,000 feet. Mini-missiles have a range of 5280 feet.
Unless the 30% beyond max range = -4 to strike thing is possibly cumulative (-8 to strike for 80% beyond?) this wouldn't be possible.
Well... actually if you had a Gizmoteer from South America 2 they can increase missile range by 5% per level, so if you had one who could increase it 110%, you could fire them 11,088 feet. Although no XP requirements are given for level 22.
A more realistic approach would be having a psi-tech modify the GBK, increasing its missile launcher range by 10%. A level 16 Gizmoteer can boost missile to 9504, x 1.1 = 10454 ... not quite there, but if you allow the +30% range for -4 to strike rule to apply to missiles (they seem like a possible exception, max range representing running out of fuel) it could get you there.
RockJock wrote:I think I'm going to just break the launcher on the GBK and call it a day.
All 10 of them? Each has its own individual launcher