New Marine Book

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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Chris0013 »

Didn't like some aspects of the timeline...3 years for the jump to Tirol...they were not in contact with any other UEEF units that they talked to when they arrived"

"SDF-3 Control to Space Station Liberty...we have arrived at Tirol."

"Liberty to SDF-3....WHERE THE #@$%# HAVE YOU BEEN...YOU HAVE BEEN OUT OF CONTACT FOR 3 %$#@ING YEARS!!!!!!"

Then another 2 years for Wolfe/Wolf/Wolff to get home??

Just one fans opinion...I would have had fleets Tokugawas, Tristars, etc...as well as converted Zentraedi ships on scouting missions the to edges of the Master's Empire as well as colony operations searching for habitable worlds.....after these missions produced results in the form or colonies, captured Factory Satellites, and up to date intelligence on the Masters....then I would have had the SDF-3 and support ships as a contact fleet that would approach Tirol.

Just my humble $0.02 on the matter.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Chronicler »

Chris0013 wrote:Didn't like some aspects of the timeline...3 years for the jump to Tirol...they were not in contact with any other UEEF units that they talked to when they arrived"

"SDF-3 Control to Space Station Liberty...we have arrived at Tirol."

"Liberty to SDF-3....WHERE THE #@$%# HAVE YOU BEEN...YOU HAVE BEEN OUT OF CONTACT FOR 3 %$#@ING YEARS!!!!!!"

Then another 2 years for Wolfe/Wolf/Wolff to get home??

Just one fans opinion...I would have had fleets Tokugawas, Tristars, etc...as well as converted Zentraedi ships on scouting missions the to edges of the Master's Empire as well as colony operations searching for habitable worlds.....after these missions produced results in the form or colonies, captured Factory Satellites, and up to date intelligence on the Masters....then I would have had the SDF-3 and support ships as a contact fleet that would approach Tirol.

Just my humble $0.02 on the matter.


I had the same ideas for my fanfic project in regards to this. You would think they would have relay satellites dropped off at points and maybe have multiple jumps between the trip. Stop at different planets and what not. Hell they could have stumbled on the Invid on one of the planets to get some sense of them.

Also the IMA files had production work for a continuation of Genesis Climber (Spider, command helmet, ex.), the rifleman I can get behind but the others not so much (Crusader should have been a VR-050 series, space ones could have been their own thing admittedly).
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

by the way HG set up prelude and the officialtimeline and the RPG stats ships, the fleet of ships approach is also frikken canon.

the starships can only fold about ~300 light years at a time, and longer trips require multiple jumps. which makes the cross galaxy trip to tyrol impossible for a single jump.

the RPG also establishes (in the condor and bioroid interceptor write ups) that the SDF-3 brough with it a large fleet of both human and zentreadi forces.. and they fought several battles before they reached tyrol.


HG also has established the primary goal of the pioneer mission was to establish colonies. and that the UEEF had a huge force involved in the war with the regent.. way biggerthan could be held on the SDF-3.

(also of note.. Carpenter's tokugawa. carpenter's Xo says that ship had been their home for 15 years. which matches perfectly with HG's canon of ships being sent out to scout ahead of the pioneer mission in 2016. HG's infopedia and artbook also established the tokugawa class was a design started before the zentreadi arrived, and only finished after with some refits.)
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Seto Kaiba »

Chronicler wrote:Also the IMA files had production work for a continuation of Genesis Climber (Spider, command helmet, ex.), the rifleman I can get behind but the others not so much (Crusader should have been a VR-050 series, space ones could have been their own thing admittedly).

*sigh* No, the Imai Files DO NOT contain design concepts for a continuation of MOSPEADA.*

They contain only pre-production concept and developmental art for Artmic's Genesis Climber MOSPEADA series and the early concept art for Science Fiction Sengoku Saga, the concept that became Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross. All of those early "Cyclones" are lightly edited versions of rejected Ride Armor concepts from MOSPEADA, of both the transformable and non-transformable variety, and the "Command helmet" is just the original helmet that went with the "Crusader", which was the rejected concept for a heavy weapons ride armor that would've appeared late in the series.


* Genesis Climber MOSPEADA wasn't very successful in Japan, garnering just enough interest to make the wrap-up OVA Love Live Alive as an epilogue. There really wasn't any room for a sequel anyway... unlike the Robotech version, the plot's conclusion in "Symphony of Light" really left no dangling plot threads to which a sequel could attach itself. The Inbit left, Earth was finally free, there were no missing fleets or further alien threats, all humanity had to do was pick up the pieces. They didn't even possess FTL technology, so it's not like they could get into much trouble.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Seto Kaiba »

glitterboy2098 wrote:bthe starships can only fold about ~300 light years at a time, and longer trips require multiple jumps. which makes the cross galaxy trip to tyrol impossible for a single jump.

That's only in the RPG... the fold ranges in the show are not nearly so limited, what with the Masters jumping to Earth's vicinity from another galaxy and all. (The stated fold range for their ships of 652ly doesn't quite tally with the fact that the nearest galaxy is over 25,000 light years from Earth.)


glitterboy2098 wrote:HG also has established the primary goal of the pioneer mission was to establish colonies.

Technically inaccurate, the actual definition given in AotSC indicates the primary goal was the whole "confront the Robotech Masters" schtick (and leading the Robotech Wars away from Earth), and that they were also supposed to explore space for future colonization while they were at it. It doesn't say anything about establishing colonies, just exploring with an eye toward colonization.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

actually the nearest galaxy to earth is within 300 light years. the edge of the Sagittarius dwarf galaxy the milky way is currently in the process of absorbing.

as for the goal of the pioneer mission:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/ ... o9baue.jpg

pretty cut and dried

also in regards to the limtied range
from the art of the shadow chronicles, which you yourself keep using..

"Early attempts to utilize this form of transportation were met with mixed results due to the limited range and reliability of systems recovered from alien vessels"
a scan of the hyperspace fold drive entry.
so limited range is canon. a single jump to tyrol is impossible even in non-RPG canon.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Seto Kaiba »

glitterboy2098 wrote:actually the nearest galaxy to earth is within 300 light years. the edge of the Sagittarius dwarf galaxy the milky way is currently in the process of absorbing.

The information I can find indicates that the Sagittarius dwarf galaxy is approximately 70,000 light years from Earth. Canis major is almost three times closer, at 25,000 light years.


glitterboy2098 wrote:as for the goal of the pioneer mission:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/ ... o9baue.jpg

Exact words: "One of the long term goals". Not "the primary goal" or even "a primary goal". It IS pretty cut and dried, isn't it? :D



glitterboy2098 wrote:from the art of the shadow chronicles, which you yourself keep using..

"Early attempts to utilize this form of transportation were met with mixed results due to the limited range and reliability of systems recovered from alien vessels"
a scan of the hyperspace fold drive entry.
so limited range is canon. a single jump to tyrol is impossible even in non-RPG canon.

Let's be precise... because I like being mercilessly precise. :D

Yes, AotSC says that the effective range of humanity's fold drives is limited... but it doesn't define what constitutes "limited'. Is it hundreds of light years? Thousands? A properly working fold drive has to be capable of tens of thousands of light years in a jump, otherwise the Robotech Masters would not have been able to make it from another galaxy to Earth's doorstep the way they did.

Canis Major is the closest, at 25,000ly... what if they came from Sagitarrius Dwarf Spherical at 70,000ly away, or Ursa Majoris II, at 98,000ly? Or even farther away than that? What is limited distance for a device demonstrably capable of intergalactic travel?
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Defender_X »

For anyone that has the final version. Any changes to the OCCs from the raw version to the final version?
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Tiree »

I got a chance to skim some of the material.

I almost always look up endurance on a Mecha in Robotech because of the Protoculture need and use. This gives me a good indication on resupply in an Invid Invasion based game. I noticed that some how, some way, some of the mecha don't use Protoculture Canisters, and they obviously should. Some have just a 'Range' of approximately 4,000 miles. Some use more than 16 PCells, some have new P-Reactors...

What were they thinking?!?!
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by SRoss »

Got my copy of the Marine book.

New Mecha and vehicles - :ok:

Sentinels races - :ok:

New Invid Mecha, Inorganic and RCC - :ok:

Timeline - huh???! I have to assume noone at HC was paying attention. :erm:

Reprint of the Invid Inorganics - Ok, I can understand, we can't assume everyone has the Genesis Pits book.

Reprint of the Bioroid Interceptor, Condor mecha and the Conbat fighter - Um, these are in the basic rulebook. Couldn't you have put something new in? The Tokugawa class, some other new mecha or vehicle, maybe? :-?
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Colonel Wolfe »

SRoss wrote: Reprint of the Bioroid Interceptor, Condor mecha and the Conbat fighter - Um, these are in the basic rulebook. Couldn't you have put something new in? The Tokugawa class, some other new mecha or vehicle, maybe? :-?
Above the 999 other sins the book has committed... this was one of the worst.. you have to have TSC to play 2nd edition robotech and those units are in the book. I was overcharged for this book because they claim they expanded the content, yet its has a reprint of info found in the main book that I need to use to play the game...
the only justification i see is that this is a book written for 1st edition that is being pawned off as 2nd edition...
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Kagashi »

Colonel Wolfe wrote:
SRoss wrote: Reprint of the Bioroid Interceptor, Condor mecha and the Conbat fighter - Um, these are in the basic rulebook. Couldn't you have put something new in? The Tokugawa class, some other new mecha or vehicle, maybe? :-?
Above the 999 other sins the book has committed... this was one of the worst.. you have to have TSC to play 2nd edition robotech and those units are in the book. I was overcharged for this book because they claim they expanded the content, yet its has a reprint of info found in the main book that I need to use to play the game...
the only justification i see is that this is a book written for 1st edition that is being pawned off as 2nd edition...


And on top of that, they didnt even fix the verbiage that would integrate the Z Series Destroids into the timeline of the Bioroid Interceptor, reprinting a contradiction. Its clear they didnt even bother for QC on this book.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Arnie100 »

Assault ships would have been nice.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Roger »

Seto Kaiba wrote:*sigh* No, the Imai Files DO NOT contain design concepts for a continuation of MOSPEADA.*

The Imai Files definitely do contain concepts for a continuation of the show. Everything in envelope M4 (four ride armors and four Legioss variants) was designed one month after MOSPEADA started airing. There are also internal planning memos with a list of unproduced kits, including references to these designs.

Additionally, I have a scan in there showing a production schedule for 39 episodes. Unfortunately the show was cut short at 25, but those eight additional mecha were being planned to appear onscreen and in the toy stores if the show continued further.

Just endeavoring to be mercilessly precise. ;p

Also, regarding this:

IMO, the writers of the original Southern Cross seem to have had something against women...

Agreed, and further evidence of this is the work of lolicon manga author Aki Uchiyama, aka "The Diaper Emperor," who was hired by the producers to design the female characters. Eventually he was replaced, but the full story and (safe for work) design for Jeanne was shared here:

http://altjapan.typepad.com/my_weblog/2 ... cated.html

I also want to say that I'm really happy to finally see these designs in print. All of the artists did an excellent job but I think Charles Walton deserves special recognition for what he did with the MOSPEADA designs. It would be very nifty to see some of the mecha end up in the miniatures game and finally realized in 3D.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Arnie100 »

I would have liked to have seen this statted out:
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/wor ... 0103024754
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Colonel Wolfe »

Arnie100 wrote:I would have liked to have seen this statted out:
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/wor ... 0103024754

well, since thats the early design for the Alpha, you more less did... I would like to see them stated as the Vector-Dread combo unit...
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Arnie100 »

Colonel Wolfe wrote:
Arnie100 wrote:I would have liked to have seen this statted out:
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/wor ... 0103024754

well, since thats the early design for the Alpha, you more less did... I would like to see them stated as the Vector-Dread combo unit...


THAT would have been interesting...
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Seto Kaiba »

Roger wrote:The Imai Files definitely do contain concepts for a continuation of the show. Everything in envelope M4 (four ride armors and four Legioss variants) was designed one month after MOSPEADA started airing. There are also internal planning memos with a list of unproduced kits, including references to these designs.

That's just an assumption based on the dates from the art... which, really, is a fairly flimsy argument at best considering how often studios back in the day produced final art for designs mere weeks or sometimes even days before an episode's animation process begins. (Hell, the original Gundam was practically a love-letter to last minute design submissions.)

The same can be said for the alleged 39 episode production plan... MOSPEADA was not a truncated show like Southern Cross ended up being. Sight unseen, I'd strongly suspect that's the original pre-budgeting production proposal (back in the day, it was not at all uncommon for shows to be pitched with 40-60 episodes and have that cut in half once the sponsors decided how much they actually wanted to pay for. Macross was originally pitched with 49 episodes, budgeted for 27, and extended to 36 on the strength of its ratings.)
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Roger »

Seto Kaiba wrote:That's just an assumption based on the dates from the art...

No, it's not. Shinji Aramaki confirmed this to me about those designs. I've posted elsewhere about this.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Colonel Wolfe wrote:
Arnie100 wrote:I would have liked to have seen this statted out:
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/wor ... 0103024754

well, since thats the early design for the Alpha, you more less did... I would like to see them stated as the Vector-Dread combo unit...

I would much rather see new original stuff created for RT than the continued pillaging from OSM sources, even for the RPG.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by mech798 »

ShadowLogan wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:
Arnie100 wrote:I would have liked to have seen this statted out:
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/wor ... 0103024754

well, since thats the early design for the Alpha, you more less did... I would like to see them stated as the Vector-Dread combo unit...

I would much rather see new original stuff created for RT than the continued pillaging from OSM sources, even for the RPG.


This is really the big problme. They're mining a source that was pretty shallow to begin with. There just isn't much left of the OSM, especially when you consider how much of Macross is more or less not being used. (that's doubly problematic because Macross is, compared to the other two settings, the one with far more in the way of background and material to mine).
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Rabid Southern Cross Fan »

mech798 wrote:There just isn't much left of the OSM, especially when you consider how much of Macross is more or less not being used.


Not true in the slightest. There is still a crapload of stuff just from the Tv series (The Masters War and The New Generation) that hasn't been put into the RPG......
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Colonel Wolfe »

mech798 wrote:
(that's doubly problematic because Macross is, compared to the other two settings, the one with far more in the way of background and material to mine).
Far more ex post facto materials. to many time people begin to "mine" the other macrose serials for information, when we have yet to actually explore what has been produced on screen for Robotech itself. IMO, the mine for legally available macrose materials is near the bottom... as the RPG is making animation errors (VF-1r) and easter-eggs (Joutun & YF-4) into full blow production mecha.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Seto Kaiba »

mech798 wrote:This is really the big problme. They're mining a source that was pretty shallow to begin with. There just isn't much left of the OSM, especially when you consider how much of Macross is more or less not being used. (that's doubly problematic because Macross is, compared to the other two settings, the one with far more in the way of background and material to mine).

To be fair, they're not out of material from the show yet... but most of the yet-uncovered designs are fairly trivial.

(Obviously the prominent missing designs are in the "ships" category, for the most part.)

You're right that there's a lot more to work with from the Macross OSM than there is in the Southern Cross or Genesis Climber MOSPEADA OSM, but writing a book with nothing but three dozen blink-and-you'll-miss-it background designs is really a bad idea no matter which of the original shows they're coming from. They're very limited in what they can use from Macross, and the last untapped source of classic designs that were once associated with Robotech is off the table forever thanks to the rights to Megazone 23 residing with someone else.

I was very disappointed in both Harmony Gold and Palladium Books when it as first announced that they were going to try to milk the rejected MOSPEADA concept art in the so-called Imai files for "new" content. I understand and largely agree with HG's decision to use the OSM stats as the basis for Robotech tech specs where they're available, but we're well past the time when it was OK to rewrite pre-existing, unrelated material into your SF universe. I fear that, if there's a Marines Vol.2, it'll be more of same... since all signs are that Sony isn't going to be Robotech's savior, and Harmony Gold seems to have finally given up.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Chris0013 »

mech798 wrote:
ShadowLogan wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:
Arnie100 wrote:I would have liked to have seen this statted out:
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/wor ... 0103024754

well, since thats the early design for the Alpha, you more less did... I would like to see them stated as the Vector-Dread combo unit...

I would much rather see new original stuff created for RT than the continued pillaging from OSM sources, even for the RPG.


This is really the big problme. They're mining a source that was pretty shallow to begin with. There just isn't much left of the OSM, especially when you consider how much of Macross is more or less not being used. (that's doubly problematic because Macross is, compared to the other two settings, the one with far more in the way of background and material to mine).


However even when taking from the OSM they butcher it.

I was looking forward to the Valiant and the Golem. I admit the art in the IMAI files needed some cleaning up...but what we got were kitbashed designs. The Valiant took the upper body from the IMAI and put Alpha legs on it....and don't even get me started again on the Golem.

The Cyclones I liked. Working them in as earlier prototypes that were moved to production for cost effectiveness. However the arm mounted weapons and CVR armors not being interchangeable was an issue to me.

As a side note...the missile launchers for the -010 and -020 series Cyclones....there the boxy design on one page the pics for the -020 show missile launchers more like the GR-97....has there been any explanation?
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by mech798 »

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:
mech798 wrote:There just isn't much left of the OSM, especially when you consider how much of Macross is more or less not being used.


Not true in the slightest. There is still a crapload of stuff just from the Tv series (The Masters War and The New Generation) that hasn't been put into the RPG......



Not really. Oh sure, you have the new car, or tank or plane, but nothing that is really that important. The starships are, but even that's a lot of reprints of stuff that came out before the shadow chronicles.
But setting info? That's thin, especially since HG has largely nixed much of the interwar ideas Palladium came up with. Even if there is some gadget or car still lying around, the setting, in terms of its narrative depth, hsa been pretty well mined out-- heck, it has been shrunk compared to the earlier stuff palladium put out, say about the zentraedi control zone, which had a huge amount of narrative room for GMs to play with.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by mech798 »

Seto Kaiba wrote:
I was very disappointed in both Harmony Gold and Palladium Books when it as first announced that they were going to try to milk the rejected MOSPEADA concept art in the so-called Imai files for "new" content. I understand and largely agree with HG's decision to use the OSM stats as the basis for Robotech tech specs where they're available, but we're well past the time when it was OK to rewrite pre-existing, unrelated material into your SF universe. I fear that, if there's a Marines Vol.2, it'll be more of same... since all signs are that Sony isn't going to be Robotech's savior, and Harmony Gold seems to have finally given up.


It's hard to look at their website and come to any other conclusion. It's not simply stayed static, it's been rolled back with absolutely no sign that anyone is really maintaining it.
And that says to me that nobody has any faith in Sony, because if you think there's a chance that someone is picking up your property, you really want to boost it. Heck, I've seen people at SDCC (san diego comic con) who don't even have any real sure bets for getting picked up and even on the off chance, they're there with full color comics, websites, regularly updated blogs, the whole nine yards, and that's for a property that is just starting out. IN comparison, HG looks like a tired old used book store that is basically coasting along on inertia until Pops can retire. It's a terrible way to handle an IP.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Rabid Southern Cross Fan »

mech798 wrote:Not really.


Yes, really. There are numerous items that have never appeared in print in the RPG that they have either screen grabs or lineart for and SHOULD be detailed in the RPG. This doesn't even begin to touch on the revisions that need to take place as there are still misidentified items throughout.
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Re: New Marine Book

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mech798 wrote:This is really the big problme. They're mining a source that was pretty shallow to begin with. There just isn't much left of the OSM, especially when you consider how much of Macross is more or less not being used. (that's doubly problematic because Macross is, compared to the other two settings, the one with far more in the way of background and material to mine).

What is left in the OSM I don't know the full extent. I've never been overly enthusiastic about it's use in any capacity to begin with beyond basic dimensions (as that is what X was to be drawn at after all).

I think the IMU approach seen in NG & GP SBs might be better if they dropped the "sneaky mass production" for just mass production (I say sneaky because IMUs in spirit I think shouldn't be mass produced) instead of looking to the OSM to fill in the TO&E (even if the art work is IMU-ish from what I hear). They could even introduce "new" models of existing units to fill a given role (strip the arms off the Condor and you can pretty much have 4 of 5 TMS Destroids covered).

And I do think there are things that have been missed that really need to be covered (Wolfe & Carpeter Fighters, Maxwell's Drones maybe, for sure the Shadow Drone and Super A/B system, not to mention the VF-X-4/5 even if they are just prototypes). These aren't minor blink and miss it like Point-K wreckage or "Broken Heart" mini-destroids. Ships I'm less concerned with actually, they make good background settings (ship deckplans I could get behind though).
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Kagashi »

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:
mech798 wrote:Not really.


Yes, really. There are numerous items that have never appeared in print in the RPG that they have either screen grabs or lineart for and SHOULD be detailed in the RPG. This doesn't even begin to touch on the revisions that need to take place as there are still misidentified items throughout.


Agreed, we could easily fill another Rifts size source book of just source material that has appeared in just the original 85 episodes let alone things from the Wildstorm comics or The Shadow Chronicles movie itself.

Yes, story wise, we are running out of things the Yune-iverse is allowing the RPG to officially print, but all this other source material could still be used. Heck, we still dont have an SDF-3, the Tokugawas, or even most of the Zentraedi ships.

All three main books reference a spaceships source book which for some unknown reason, was scrapped. Just give us what we are asking for already...sheesh. I have money and I want to give it to you.
I want to see from Palladium:
Updated Aug 2015
-Rifts: Dark Woods/Deep South, Space 110 PA, Scandinavia
-Mechanoids: Space (MDC)
-Robotech: Errata for Marines timeline, Masters Deluxe with SC and UEEF gear, Spaceships
-Updated Errata for post-2006 printings of Rifts books
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Tiree »

Kagashi wrote:All three main books reference a spaceships source book which for some unknown reason, was scrapped. Just give us what we are asking for already...sheesh. I have money and I want to give it to you.

It was scrapped because Marker was fired, and it was his baby.

It might be worthwhile to find a talented fan to lobby Palladium to pick up where he left off: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=94872
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

i've considered writing up a sampler and throwing my hat into the ring (big fan of marker's work), just haven't had time yet.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Colonel Wolfe »

glitterboy2098 wrote:i've considered writing up a sampler and throwing my hat into the ring (big fan of marker's work), just haven't had time yet.

From my chats with Jason, his work on the Ships book was basically the thread linked above and a few scraps of notes he had done before he was canned. He thought it was hillaroious that Palladium was advertising dates for the books to be published...
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Seto Kaiba »

mech798 wrote:It's hard to look at their website and come to any other conclusion. It's not simply stayed static, it's been rolled back with absolutely no sign that anyone is really maintaining it.

Yeah... it's a bloody mess, and the rudimentary "leave a comment" feature has been hijacked innumerable times by ad-bots posting links to viruses, adult material, and other content of questionable taste and legality.



mech798 wrote:And that says to me that nobody has any faith in Sony, because if you think there's a chance that someone is picking up your property, you really want to boost it. Heck, I've seen people at SDCC (san diego comic con) who don't even have any real sure bets for getting picked up and even on the off chance, they're there with full color comics, websites, regularly updated blogs, the whole nine yards, and that's for a property that is just starting out. IN comparison, HG looks like a tired old used book store that is basically coasting along on inertia until Pops can retire. It's a terrible way to handle an IP.

One could argue that the current, rather dismal state of affairs is indicative of Sony having no faith in Robotech either. HG's creative staff was banking on Warner Bros, and later Sony, to raise Robotech's profile enough to get an actual budget behind Shadow Chronicles Part II, and that didn't happen. After the PR disaster and the subsequent cancellation of their Robotech Academy project, and Robotech's conspicuous absence from Sony's release schedule for the next five years, the franchise ended up in the unenviable position of having no new material forthcoming from any quarter in an age when adapting old material from other projects is generally frowned upon. That's a no-win scenario if ever I saw one.

They're not completely out of material from the "original 85" yet, but they've covered most of the main points besides what would have gone into the ships book. You can't really write a compelling RPG sourcebook with nothing to work with but blink-and-you'll-miss-it background designs and material even Harmony Gold rejected from their official continuity. The problem with mining the concept art for ideas is that what you get often doesn't aesthetically or technologically match the established setting, and they've ended up with a LOT of problems there. It's very derivative, and it's obvious at a glance where the derivations are coming from. Those new destroids are glorified IMUs, cobbled together from Alpha chassis, old Macross destroids, VF-1's, and heads and engines off AGACs units. The CVR-2's looking uncomfortably Halo, and has some serious anatomical problems when paired to the Nova thanks to those huge rocket nozzles on the shins. Even the Sentinels aliens aren't drawn with an aesthetic consistent with Prelude. The whole thing feels like they weren't really trying to make it fit the Robotech setting...



Kagashi wrote:Agreed, we could easily fill another Rifts size source book of just source material that has appeared in just the original 85 episodes let alone things from the Wildstorm comics or The Shadow Chronicles movie itself.

Yes, story wise, we are running out of things the Yune-iverse is allowing the RPG to officially print, but all this other source material could still be used. Heck, we still dont have an SDF-3, the Tokugawas, or even most of the Zentraedi ships.

There's always the awkward and contentious question of how many of those background designs are actually recognized the staff at HG as official Robotech designs... there are more than a few cases where the fan assessments of what's in the show don't line up with the official view, and the official view's theoretically what the books get based on.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by mech798 »

Seto Kaiba wrote:
mech798 wrote:
They're not completely out of material from the "original 85" yet, but they've covered most of the main points besides what would have gone into the ships book. You can't really write a compelling RPG sourcebook with nothing to work with but blink-and-you'll-miss-it background designs and material even Harmony Gold rejected from their official continuity. The problem with mining the concept art for ideas is that what you get often doesn't aesthetically or technologically match the established setting, and they've ended up with a LOT of problems there. It's very derivative, and it's obvious at a glance where the derivations are coming from. Those new destroids are glorified IMUs, cobbled together from Alpha chassis, old Macross destroids, VF-1's, and heads and engines off AGACs units. The CVR-2's looking uncomfortably Halo, and has some serious anatomical problems when paired to the Nova thanks to those huge rocket nozzles on the shins. Even the Sentinels aliens aren't drawn with an aesthetic consistent with Prelude. The whole thing feels like they weren't really trying to make it fit the Robotech setting...


.


And it think the biggest problem is that the designs, even if they accept them, don't really give you much to do in the rpg. The Macross era malcontent uprisings and the whole cold war with the EBSIS (which was very popular), is no longer allowed so...what do you do? there's not a lot of information about the space, and we have no idea if it's because HG doesn't want anything written, or because palladium doesn't think it's worth it, but in terms of widescale gaming campaigns? There's not a huge amount of support. (note, I'm not adding kitbashed campaigns here, because yeah, you can always do that, but the point is, part of the reason you buy products is so you don't have to).

The problem is that the new focus on "canon" is bad, because the canon that HG has is both inconsistent and terribly limiting. You can get away with saying: I want to stick to canon in the star wars or star trek universes because those are both huge settings where staying within canon isn't that hard. Narratively, they're vast settings.
Robotech, especially after the shadow chronicles, isn't. It's a tiny setting. You can... hunt for the SDF III. Oh, you can do other things, but none of that matters because everyone lives or dies based on finding the magic box. Earth has so few survivors on it that it's not really that important in the scheme of things, and the sentinels-- really not enough information to play any campaigns there.

I have to admit, I sometimes wonder why palladium bothers with robotech-- their Rifts line seems to be doing better sales wise and is likely far less trouble to produce given that they own it outright.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Kagashi »

Kagashi wrote:
Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:
mech798 wrote:Not really.


Yes, really. There are numerous items that have never appeared in print in the RPG that they have either screen grabs or lineart for and SHOULD be detailed in the RPG. This doesn't even begin to touch on the revisions that need to take place as there are still misidentified items throughout.


Agreed, we could easily fill another Rifts size source book of just source material that has appeared in just the original 85 episodes let alone things from the Wildstorm comics or The Shadow Chronicles movie itself.

Yes, story wise, we are running out of things the Yune-iverse is allowing the RPG to officially print, but all this other source material could still be used. Heck, we still dont have an SDF-3, the Tokugawas, or even most of the Zentraedi ships.

All three main books reference a spaceships source book which for some unknown reason, was scrapped. Just give us what we are asking for already...sheesh. I have money and I want to give it to you.


Here is all the stuff, minus what Marines gave us, from an earlier thread that is missing from the Robotech RPG. I am sure there is more that we have not thought of. All are from the original 85 episodes, LLA, The Shadow Chronicles, Wildstorm Comics, and/or the old Robotech.com website:

Zentraedi
Dolza’s Fortress
Zentraedi Quiltra Queleual class Carrier
Zentraedi Queadol Magdomilla class Command Ship
Zentraedi Gun Ship
Zentraedi Scout Ship

Masters
Tirolian Heavy Cruiser
Sian Dereta ship (I included this because the Art of Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles clearly states the original hull of the SDF-3 was to make the ship appear to be Tirolian...so it had to be a ship that resembled the SDF-3 hull design depicted in AoR:tSC).
The Triumviroid “drones”

Invid
Invid Command Carrier

Late UEEF vessels
ArkAngel class Colony Fortress
SDF-3 Pioneer (2044 refit)
Crusader Class Dropship
Horizon-V class Dropship
Super Shadow Beta
Super Shadow Alpha
Garfish Science variant

Mid UEEF vessels
Shadow Drone
Tokugawa class Battleship (2043 refit)
Bioroid Interceptor (command variant)

Early UEEF vessels
SDF-3 Pioneer (original exoskeletal hull)
Tokugawa class Battleship (original hull design)
“SF-6 Vulture” / Carpenter/Hannibal fighter (Episode 47)
“AF-4 Volcano” / Wolfe fighter (New Gen Episodes)
Tiger Destroid (Wildstorm Comics)
Maxwell's Drone Aircraft (New Gen Episodes)
Early version of the Unicorn PA (mentioned in RPG)
VF-X-5 Prototype (Mentioned in RPG)
VF-X-7 Prototype (Mentioned in RPG)
VF-X-6 Genia and the YF-1 with experimental boosters (From the Stars, Wildstorm)
“Highlander” Tank (Episode 65)

Southern Cross
“Geneva/Battle/Defender” Cruiser
Nelson/Banshee-class Light Cruiser
Ox Lifter/Tug
Gull-wing Shuttle
Predator Transport
Spintop Space Station (identified with SSL in the novelizations)
Moon Base ALuCE-01
Moon Base Luna
Various hover and wheeled vehicles
A third repeatable configuration for the Sylphid fighter's wing (it has 3 wing designs each distinct in the animation)

UEDF vessels
“Mastiff” aircraft (Episode 1)
“Goshawk” aircraft (Episode 1)
Yamato Class Transport (Macross Episodes)
Jotun Armoured Valkyrie (Macross Episode)
YF-4 Prototype (Wildstorm Comics and a model in Macross)
the roving Cola, Camera, and Telephone 'bots on the SDF-1/Macross Island (various Macross)
The Fan Jets
“Dark Knight” Tank (Episode 1)
“Tornado” Tank (Episode 27)
DL-88 Truck
attack helicopter in the Global War flashback in Booby Trap
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Updated Aug 2015
-Rifts: Dark Woods/Deep South, Space 110 PA, Scandinavia
-Mechanoids: Space (MDC)
-Robotech: Errata for Marines timeline, Masters Deluxe with SC and UEEF gear, Spaceships
-Updated Errata for post-2006 printings of Rifts books
-Searchable, quality PDFs/E-pubs of current Rifts titles
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by mech798 »

Kagashi wrote:
Kagashi wrote:
Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:
mech798 wrote:Not really.


Yes, really. There are numerous items that have never appeared in print in the RPG that they have either screen grabs or lineart for and SHOULD be detailed in the RPG. This doesn't even begin to touch on the revisions that need to take place as there are still misidentified items throughout.


Agreed, we could easily fill another Rifts size source book of just source material that has appeared in just the original 85 episodes let alone things from the Wildstorm comics or The Shadow Chronicles movie itself.

Yes, story wise, we are running out of things the Yune-iverse is allowing the RPG to officially print, but all this other source material could still be used. Heck, we still dont have an SDF-3, the Tokugawas, or even most of the Zentraedi ships.

All three main books reference a spaceships source book which for some unknown reason, was scrapped. Just give us what we are asking for already...sheesh. I have money and I want to give it to you.


Here is all the stuff, minus what Marines gave us, from an earlier thread that is missing from the Robotech RPG. I am sure there is more that we have not thought of. All are from the original 85 episodes, LLA, The Shadow Chronicles, Wildstorm Comics, and/or the old Robotech.com website:

Zentraedi
Dolza’s Fortress
Zentraedi Quiltra Queleual class Carrier
Zentraedi Queadol Magdomilla class Command Ship
Zentraedi Gun Ship
Zentraedi Scout Ship

Masters
Tirolian Heavy Cruiser
Sian Dereta ship (I included this because the Art of Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles clearly states the original hull of the SDF-3 was to make the ship appear to be Tirolian...so it had to be a ship that resembled the SDF-3 hull design depicted in AoR:tSC).
The Triumviroid “drones”

Invid
Invid Command Carrier

Late UEEF vessels
ArkAngel class Colony Fortress
SDF-3 Pioneer (2044 refit)
Crusader Class Dropship
Horizon-V class Dropship
Super Shadow Beta
Super Shadow Alpha
Garfish Science variant

Mid UEEF vessels
Shadow Drone
Tokugawa class Battleship (2043 refit)
Bioroid Interceptor (command variant)

Early UEEF vessels
SDF-3 Pioneer (original exoskeletal hull)
Tokugawa class Battleship (original hull design)
“SF-6 Vulture” / Carpenter/Hannibal fighter (Episode 47)
“AF-4 Volcano” / Wolfe fighter (New Gen Episodes)
Tiger Destroid (Wildstorm Comics)
Maxwell's Drone Aircraft (New Gen Episodes)
Early version of the Unicorn PA (mentioned in RPG)
VF-X-5 Prototype (Mentioned in RPG)
VF-X-7 Prototype (Mentioned in RPG)
VF-X-6 Genia and the YF-1 with experimental boosters (From the Stars, Wildstorm)
“Highlander” Tank (Episode 65)

Southern Cross
“Geneva/Battle/Defender” Cruiser
Nelson/Banshee-class Light Cruiser
Ox Lifter/Tug
Gull-wing Shuttle
Predator Transport
Spintop Space Station (identified with SSL in the novelizations)
Moon Base ALuCE-01
Moon Base Luna
Various hover and wheeled vehicles
A third repeatable configuration for the Sylphid fighter's wing (it has 3 wing designs each distinct in the animation)

UEDF vessels
“Mastiff” aircraft (Episode 1)
“Goshawk” aircraft (Episode 1)
Yamato Class Transport (Macross Episodes)
Jotun Armoured Valkyrie (Macross Episode)
YF-4 Prototype (Wildstorm Comics and a model in Macross)
the roving Cola, Camera, and Telephone 'bots on the SDF-1/Macross Island (various Macross)
The Fan Jets
“Dark Knight” Tank (Episode 1)
“Tornado” Tank (Episode 27)
DL-88 Truck
attack helicopter in the Global War flashback in Booby Trap


Beyond the spacehips, a lot of that stuff is "blink and you'll miss it" sort of thigns. Yes, maybe there's a pressing need somewhere to have the stats for a DL-88 truck, but I can't think of them.

What robotech needs, especially the RPG, is something more than a catalogue of unused art mechs-- it needs a setting that is *open ended*. Think of how much stuff they managed to put out for the period between the last episode of Macorss and the first of Southern Cross-- an dnote that none of it contradicted canon. It's not enough to have mechs, you have to have a wide range of places to use those mechs, and that's where robotech falls down, and falls down badly.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Rabid Southern Cross Fan »

mech798 wrote:Beyond the spacehips, a lot of that stuff is "blink and you'll miss it" sort of thigns. Yes, maybe there's a pressing need somewhere to have the stats for a DL-88 truck, but I can't think of them.


Which is completely and totally irrelevant.

What robotech needs, especially the RPG, is something more than a catalogue of unused art mechs-- it needs a setting that is *open ended*.


:sigh:

Really? What do you think story hooks are for?
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Colonel Wolfe »

mech798 wrote:What robotech needs, especially the RPG, is something more than a catalogue of unused art mechs-- it needs a setting that is *open ended*.
and giving plenty of Toys to fill the Sand-box that is a Tabletop RPG is good. giving endless source books detailing every square inch of the universe turns it from a GM's sand box to a Roller-coaster..... as far as not enough places... Opened ended game play, that hasn't been detailed to death.... Rifts is becoming like Forgotten Realms... you can't wander and inch without finding some new completely unknown mega power house civilization .
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Kagashi »

mech798 wrote:
Beyond the spacehips, a lot of that stuff is "blink and you'll miss it" sort of thigns. Yes, maybe there's a pressing need somewhere to have the stats for a DL-88 truck, but I can't think of them.

What robotech needs, especially the RPG, is something more than a catalogue of unused art mechs-- it needs a setting that is *open ended*. Think of how much stuff they managed to put out for the period between the last episode of Macorss and the first of Southern Cross-- an dnote that none of it contradicted canon. It's not enough to have mechs, you have to have a wide range of places to use those mechs, and that's where robotech falls down, and falls down badly.



Im not debating that we need more plot or story arcs in the RPG, as a matter of a fact, I concur that Yune needs to relax is control over the RPG universe.

The 2d edition RPG is a shambles anyway. Even in the core book, there is no clearly defined bad guy. If you actually watch the movie, the Haydonites are clearly the bad guy and the Invid are simply a bridge to get to the Haydonite arc. Yet the RPG is supposed to be set in 2044/2045 and we are given a lot of info on the Invid (whom left our lives forever), very little on Haydonites, and a bunch of source material from the 2038-2042 era mecha and equipment used in the 10th mars division attempt and/or stuff used in Tirol in the Prelude comics. No mention of 2044 Super Shadow Fighters, new dropships, new refit designs of older gear, no space station liberty...very little that was supposed to be in the era we are supposed to be playing in. Even the info on the Haydonites was weak, most likely intentional because at the time Shadow Rising was still on the books for a 2015 release (now canceled). The source material does not match the plot (or what we know of it). The core book is nothing but a toy catalog with a disjointed focus.

Its not just tSC book. Only Markers books focused on a particular era where the source material and plot matched, but still lacked on plot. Both New Gen and Genesis Pits have severe identity crisis (plot vs setting vs source material) and very little plot to draw on. So, yes, I concur with your point of view.

Since Harmony Gold refuses to actually follow through on a project in the past 10 years, I think they should let Kevin and company go hog wild on more of the Haydonites on a Shadow Chronicles source book.

We need true adventure books for the Robotech RPG. One per era. That does not focus on source material, but plot advancement. I recommend:

-The Global Civil War (pre 1999): who was fighting whom? Why? Focus on SDC combat with minor MDC introductions.
-Reconstruction/Malcontents (2012-2022): Include budding kingdoms/nations whom are independent of the UEG as mentioned in Masters and the problems they present to the UEG. Zentraedi hold outs. Space Pirates looting orbital debris. Mafias and gangs.
-The Invid Invasion (2031) The fall of the ASC, initial Invid Invasion, departure of the 15th, arrival of Wolfe, and the beginning of the freedom fighter movement.
-Sentinels Planet Campaigns: Planet XYX: Either one large book detailing each planet: Karbarra, Peryton, Praxia, Spheris, Tirol/Fantoma or individual smaller Rifts style adventure books. More detail on the setting, culture and impacts when liberated. FIX the timeline presented in Marines.
-The Border Fleets: Focused on the Masters/Zentraedi point of view, describing the century old conflict with the Invid, maintaining the Masters Empire, conquering planets, and the relationship with what will be the Sentinels Aliens.

And since HG cannot seem to produce more than a rehash of New Gen with some added animation clips in the past 10 years, perhaps they should do more than an interesting, yet non canonical Voltron cross over comic and hit up on some Yune approved stories of the above suggestions in comic form.

*break, break*

But my point previously was, taking plot aside, there is plenty of core material that still needs to be printed before we reach into concept art that was intentionally not used for the show itself that only jacks up the timeline further. At the very least, the Marines book (which really should have been named "Pioneer Mission Sourcebook") should have included the following before reaching into the unused art:

Tokugawa class Battleship (Original and 2043 refit)
Bioroid Interceptor (command variant)
SDF-3 Pioneer (original exoskeletal hull)
“SF-6 Vulture” / Carpenter/Hannibal fighter (Episode 47)
“AF-4 Volcano” / Wolfe fighter (New Gen Episodes)
Tiger Destroid (Wildstorm Comics)
VF-X-5 Prototype (Mentioned in RPG)
VF-X-7 Prototype (Mentioned in RPG)
VF-X-6 Genia and the YF-1 with experimental boosters (From the Stars, Wildstorm)
“Highlander” Tank (Episode 65)

If they didnt reprint material (especially from the core book you need to play the game anyway :x ), they could have easily squeezed most, if not all, of this into the existing book and still had room for some of the more interesting Imia files material.
I want to see from Palladium:
Updated Aug 2015
-Rifts: Dark Woods/Deep South, Space 110 PA, Scandinavia
-Mechanoids: Space (MDC)
-Robotech: Errata for Marines timeline, Masters Deluxe with SC and UEEF gear, Spaceships
-Updated Errata for post-2006 printings of Rifts books
-Searchable, quality PDFs/E-pubs of current Rifts titles
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Tiree »

Kevin and Co. have found the perfect balance (in their minds) to what sells a book. Some story elements, some game mechanics, and gear for people to drool over. This way he can sell a book to every player and GM.

So when asked for a 'Ships Book' or 'Setting Book' your going to get the above.

I'm with RSCF and Wolfe, that there is plenty of material to do that with, within the first 85episodes before you head off with the IMAI files. After looking at this book, I am certain that Mr. Jackson did not read/see any of Jason Marker's work palladium published on Robotech. Literally his stuff only works well with the 1st Edition Robotech.

At this point, if I was going to make anything useable for Robotech to play out of. I'd have to rewrite everything that was written by Irvin Jackson. Mine his works for nuggets of gold, and be done.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Colonel Wolfe »

Tiree wrote: After looking at this book, I am certain that Mr. Jackson did not read/see any of Jason Marker's work palladium published on Robotech. Literally his stuff only works well with the 1st Edition Robotech.
or any of the current era of Robotech's published canon... ignored the DC comics, Ignored LLA/TSC, Ignored ArtofTSC... ignored pretty much anything that is from post 2000 in favor of a 1st edition book.... while I blame Jackson for the poor writiing and Palladium for the poor art and editing... I blame Harmony Gold for giving it a stamp of approval... they have essentially removed the RPG as a possible canon source of information about the show it is based off of.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Chronicler »

Colonel Wolfe wrote:
Tiree wrote: After looking at this book, I am certain that Mr. Jackson did not read/see any of Jason Marker's work palladium published on Robotech. Literally his stuff only works well with the 1st Edition Robotech.
or any of the current era of Robotech's published canon... ignored the DC comics, Ignored LLA/TSC, Ignored ArtofTSC... ignored pretty much anything that is from post 2000 in favor of a 1st edition book.... while I blame Jackson for the poor writiing and Palladium for the poor art and editing... I blame Harmony Gold for giving it a stamp of approval... they have essentially removed the RPG as a possible canon source of information about the show it is based off of.


I thought the art was good (granted this coming from an armature artist), the writing though yeah we need someone besides Jackson to contribute, or at least an editor or two.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Colonel Wolfe »

Chronicler wrote:I thought the art was good (granted this coming from an armature artist), the writing though yeah we need someone besides Jackson to contribute, or at least an editor or two.
Granted, the Art is well done, but its the radical changes to pre-existing designs for what amounts to be "because we could" for reasons...
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by mech798 »

Colonel Wolfe wrote:
mech798 wrote:What robotech needs, especially the RPG, is something more than a catalogue of unused art mechs-- it needs a setting that is *open ended*.
and giving plenty of Toys to fill the Sand-box that is a Tabletop RPG is good. giving endless source books detailing every square inch of the universe turns it from a GM's sand box to a Roller-coaster..... as far as not enough places... Opened ended game play, that hasn't been detailed to death.... Rifts is becoming like Forgotten Realms... you can't wander and inch without finding some new completely unknown mega power house civilization .


Except right now one of the best sellers in the whole RPG market are the Adventure paths from Paizo. They're gold, pure gold in sales terms.

But honestly that gets to another problem, and probably the lethal problem for any long-term popularity.

Ask any author what to do to sell books and he'll say: write. If you have one book coming out, you need one in final edits and one in the rough draft stage. If people don't get stuff, they go elsewhere.

And robotech has had what, two books in the the last several years?

Doesn't matter what you're putting out, that's a losing production schedule right there.

And there is no excuse for it. This is the era of pdf and electronic publishing. Practically every day there are a ton of 10-20 page PDF's up on rpgnow, and they sell. If HG or Palladium want this to become at all successful, instead of a sad legacy publication, they need to start putting stuff out, because this is no longer the 1980s and the market has now moved on. Call it a 10K adventure/minisourcebook every 2-4 months, and you'll start building up audience rather quickly. But nobody gives a care about one book every 3 ish years. Why shoudl they? There have been entire rpg worlds that have come out in that same period.

It's not a big deal for me-- I increasingly don't have a dog in this fight since I don't see anything in the book that would make me interested in purchasing it, but if anyone wants robotech to be successful-- at all, then it needs to change is publication methodology.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Seto Kaiba »

mech798 wrote:Beyond the spacehips, a lot of that stuff is "blink and you'll miss it" sort of thigns. Yes, maybe there's a pressing need somewhere to have the stats for a DL-88 truck, but I can't think of them.

Exactly.

The argument that the 2nd Edition RPG has yet to cover a lot of designs is technically true... but in reality, most of the designs the RPG hasn't covered yet largely fall into one of these three categories:
  • Canon designs originally earmarked for the now-canceled spaceships book (e.g. the Zentradi ships, Tokugawa, SDF-3).
  • Fan-fiction designs which do not actually exist in Robotech (Sian Dereta, cruisers and light cruisers).
  • Designs so obscure and inconsequential that most Robotech fans couldn't pick them out of a crowd of one (the montage vehicles, in-jokes, and one-shots).

It's only that first category that really has enough weight to it to justify a book.



mech798 wrote:What robotech needs, especially the RPG, is something more than a catalogue of unused art mechs-- it needs a setting that is *open ended*. Think of how much stuff they managed to put out for the period between the last episode of Macorss and the first of Southern Cross-- an dnote that none of it contradicted canon. It's not enough to have mechs, you have to have a wide range of places to use those mechs, and that's where robotech falls down, and falls down badly.

Unfortunately, Robotech's story has rather deftly shot down the idea of an open-ended setting. The closest it ever got was the Sentinels arc, and that was just visits to a handful of cliche planets to fight the same guy over and over again.





Kagashi wrote:The 2d edition RPG is a shambles anyway. Even in the core book, there is no clearly defined bad guy. If you actually watch the movie, the Haydonites are clearly the bad guy and the Invid are simply a bridge to get to the Haydonite arc. Yet the RPG is supposed to be set in 2044/2045 and we are given a lot of info on the Invid (whom left our lives forever), very little on Haydonites, and a bunch of source material from the 2038-2042 era mecha and equipment used in the 10th mars division attempt and/or stuff used in Tirol in the Prelude comics. No mention of 2044 Super Shadow Fighters, new dropships, new refit designs of older gear, no space station liberty...very little that was supposed to be in the era we are supposed to be playing in.

On that basis, one could argue the entire introduction of 2E was premature... or, at least, that making Shadow Chronicles the starting point was a grave error, since there was very little actual material to work with there.

Ultimately though, they're not writing the Robotech RPG with the expectation that it'll be picked up by the non-fan. The people buying it are the Robotech fans who haven't given up on the franchise yet, so there's the expectation they'll mentally spackle over a lot of the problems and kitbash things together anyway.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

mech798 wrote:
Except right now one of the best sellers in the whole RPG market are the Adventure paths from Paizo. They're gold, pure gold in sales terms.

But honestly that gets to another problem, and probably the lethal problem for any long-term popularity.

Ask any author what to do to sell books and he'll say: write. If you have one book coming out, you need one in final edits and one in the rough draft stage. If people don't get stuff, they go elsewhere.

And robotech has had what, two books in the the last several years?

Doesn't matter what you're putting out, that's a losing production schedule right there.

And there is no excuse for it. This is the era of pdf and electronic publishing. Practically every day there are a ton of 10-20 page PDF's up on rpgnow, and they sell. If HG or Palladium want this to become at all successful, instead of a sad legacy publication, they need to start putting stuff out, because this is no longer the 1980s and the market has now moved on. Call it a 10K adventure/minisourcebook every 2-4 months, and you'll start building up audience rather quickly. But nobody gives a care about one book every 3 ish years. Why shoudl they? There have been entire rpg worlds that have come out in that same period.

It's not a big deal for me-- I increasingly don't have a dog in this fight since I don't see anything in the book that would make me interested in purchasing it, but if anyone wants robotech to be successful-- at all, then it needs to change is publication methodology.



this is a great idea. though i still would print it out and more then likely adjust it for my gaming needs. But I could see a two or three page detailing one of the ships and a handful of hook line sinkers based around a four to ten page quick adventure.
heck you could do the same for any of the mecha as well. several cool pages of art and a couple dedicated for stats and several hook line sinker adventure ideas.

I fully agree we are in an era of pdfs, But as a gamer I still love having the actual book to read from when not in the middle of the game.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by taalismn »

Seto Kaiba wrote:
mech798 wrote:Beyond the spacehips, a lot of that stuff is "blink and you'll miss it" sort of thigns. Yes, maybe there's a pressing need somewhere to have the stats for a DL-88 truck, but I can't think of them.

Exactly..


Hey! I WANTED stats for a DL-88 truck, because it appears to be functional in both terrestrial and extraterrestrial conditions! That means it can appear in a number of settings and it's big enough for transporting several characters through those environs. It can be more than mobile background dressing, it can be a squad transport, mobile home, survival vehicle, work platform....These babies could be packing katyushas! They could be around for all three story arcs and beyond!
Yet, instead of the DL-88 in the Macross book, we got a megadamage-armored tuna truck.... :( :nh: :badbad:

That...and in my first ed. college Robotech campaign, I used a Supply Officer as an NPC/GM avatar. He used a DL-88 as his office.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by Seto Kaiba »

taalismn wrote:Hey! I WANTED stats for a DL-88 truck, because it appears to be functional in both terrestrial and extraterrestrial conditions!

Strictly speaking, any truck that operates off of Earth is operating in extraterrestrial conditions... but yes, the design notes for the DL-88 Centipede from the original Macross do indicate it's capable of operating in low-gravity environs.


taalismn wrote:That means it can appear in a number of settings and it's big enough for transporting several characters through those environs.

Three characters... if they're very good friends and nobody had Taco Bell for lunch. It's basically just a taller M977 HEMTT set up for cargo operations. Not exactly exciting stuff, since it doesn't have any combat-worthy variants.


taalismn wrote:Yet, instead of the DL-88 in the Macross book, we got a megadamage-armored tuna truck.... :( :nh: :badbad:

I often wondered why a civilian freezer truck would merit mega-damage stats... then I remembered that the RPG also thinks that the Mars Gallant/H90 is a mega-damage weapon, which from the show must mean Earth has mega-damage trees.
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Re: New Marine Book

Unread post by taalismn »

Seto Kaiba wrote:[
taalismn wrote:That means it can appear in a number of settings and it's big enough for transporting several characters through those environs.

Three characters... if they're very good friends and nobody had Taco Bell for lunch*. It's basically just a taller M977 HEMTT set up for cargo operations. Not exactly exciting stuff, since it doesn't have any combat-worthy variants.


taalismn wrote:Yet, instead of the DL-88 in the Macross book, we got a megadamage-armored tuna truck.... :( :nh: :badbad:

I often wondered why a civilian freezer truck would merit mega-damage stats... then I remembered that the RPG also thinks that the Mars Gallant/H90 is a mega-damage weapon, which from the show must mean Earth has mega-damage trees.


Space-truckin', Seto. I see that big flatbed and I see adding a small hab module for extra space(admittedly at the loss of some cargo capacity). Combat capability? My campaign was field-mounting machine gun pintles and even small turrets on DLs for convoy work in the badlands. A little Mad Max elbow grease and there's potential for the DL-88. And did I mention the katyushas? Or even some hangar-queen surplus destroid shoulder missile launchers?

*Small space a problem? Roll ME for every(GM mandated period) to see who snaps first, the marine who knows twenty-eight ways to kill at close quarters, the civilian contractor and ex-motorcycle ganger, or the desk jockey milquetioast with the fetish for collecting exotic cutlery....

And as for the MDC tuna truck...the only thing I got is that somebody on Macross Island was SERIOUS about their sushi...
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Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
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