Pick y'er Warlock!

[Nox Equites]

Air is good for mangling lesser xiticix. A phantom doesn't have to worry about tk weapons. The only concern is the queens and their psi-swords and maybe nannies. Of course to kick the hive use earth for knocking towers down. Might not do much damage to individual bugs.

[kaid]

I also think some people are underestimating the usefulness of call lightning. Now as a normal invocation that takes 2 actions to cast its pretty questionable. But a spell that does 3d6 at level 3 and scales to your level in damage that DOES NOT MISS is one of the handiest attack spells around. Something flying at you at high speed like a missile a pistol shot while doing the same damage and similar range is unlikely to hit it having to roll high penalties. Call lightning pay your 10 PPE and your target is hit. Is your target partially concealed but you can still see some of them pay our 10 PPE for guaranteed hit.

Combat spells generally are pretty situational and I do tend to lean on weapons tw or normal more for damage dealing but given the level and efficiency warlocks get call lightning at there are a lot of times where it is the best choice in combat against things you are unlikely to hit otherwise.

[kaid]

I forgot to mention with all the warlocky talk here if any of you guys have not seen the newest rifter yet the atlantean warlock OCC from it will make your naughty bits tingle. Anybody who likes warlocks at all will look at that and go give it to me now!

Such as the fun part of a single element atlantean warlock starts with I believe 4 level 1 spells, 3 level 2 spells, 2 level three spells and one level 4 spell to start with.

[Killer Cyborg]

thunder clap causes scaling HF for your enemies in the area. HF costs your enemies an attack. (also, you'll have initiative in the next round, plus it may let you cast the spell then act again immediately after). not bad for 2 PPE.

Right. As long as they fail their HF checks.

breathe without air works no matter what shape your face is, works when you've been away from civilization for months, works when your stuff has been taken away, works underwater, etc. (also, actual O2 supplies would be pretty heavy... gas masks don't have oxygen supplies typically, they have air filters).

Right.
But that hasn't been much of an issue for me in any games that I've played.
As for oxygen, every suit of EBA has a 5 hour supply of oxygen in it. How much room in a suit of armor do you think that takes up?

cloud of steam damages those enemies and blinds them for 1d6 rounds. so they're stuck inside a cloud of steam being boiled alive with no idea which direction to go to escape, no idea what's going on, and if they do come out of the cloud by some stroke of luck instead of stumbling around disoriented, they are still blind and at -10 to strike, parry, and dodge. which should make them very easy to subdue if they do manage to get out.

They're inside a could of steam, being kind of scalded a bit. They don't lose all sense of direction. They don't forget what's going on.
They can still walk or crawl 15.5' to the side, and be out of the steam.
The combat penalties only last while they're IN the cloud.
It's Cloud of Smoke with a slight bite to it, not Cloud of You're Trapped And Going To Die.

howling wind isn't too hard to make work with a party. you've got silence, remember? (also, it's a save vs HF, not magic. PE does not apply).

Fair point about it being HF.
But if it's only good as a combo, it's not that great.

your enemies might make their save with mesmerism. and you might completley miss with a laser rifle. that doesn't mean a laser rifle is bad or useless or garbage, it just means it isn't guaranteed success. try again next action if needed; it's 7 PPE and an action, that's all.

You MIGHT miss with a laser rifle, but compare the odds.
At first level, a character is only going to miss a rifle shot on strike of 7 or under. That gives them a 65% chance to hit.
With a pistol, they have a +1 bonus, making it a 70% chance the attack will succeed.
With a spell like Miasma, though, the base save is 12, so there's only a 45% chance that the spell will succeed... and that's assuming that the character doesn't have any bonuses to save vs. magic, which isn't really a safe assumption.

[Killer Cyborg]

I also think some people are underestimating the usefulness of call lightning. Now as a normal invocation that takes 2 actions to cast its pretty questionable. But a spell that does 3d6 at level 3 and scales to your level in damage that DOES NOT MISS is one of the handiest attack spells around. Something flying at you at high speed like a missile a pistol shot while doing the same damage and similar range is unlikely to hit it having to roll high penalties. Call lightning pay your 10 PPE and your target is hit. Is your target partially concealed but you can still see some of them pay our 10 PPE for guaranteed hit.

Believe me, I'm not underestimating it.
I'm just not over-estimating it either.
Even a 50% chance of inflicting 1d6x10 MD means that your damage-per-attack average is going to be about 35 MD.
A 100% chance of inflicting 3d6 MD means that your damage-per-attack average is going to be about 10.5 MD.

Yes, it's extremely useful in certain limited circumstances... but those are limited circumstances.

Edit:
And using Call Lightning to make Called Shots... well, that's a can of worms that each GM would have to decide.

[Shark_Force]

cloud of steam blinds you while you're in it, and also blinds you for 1d6 melees. you can save against the damage, but not the blindness. it is an AOE blind for 1d6 melees with no save. for that alone, it is worth it. then it also deals damage, and being blinded is extremely disorienting. being blinded while being steamed alive is almost certainly going to be a very disorienting experience... there's a reason firefighters go through special training before they get sent into buildings full of hot smoke, even with all their protective gear on.

and yes, the spells don't work 100% of the time. against a single target, they're not that great. 12+ on a d20 is not that hard to get, and a single enemy will often be tougher to help compensate for being only one because this is a game. if you're fighting 4 enemies, it's pretty good odds you just traded your one action for two actions now, two actions next round (and your entire party gets initiative now and next round, which as i noted earlier may allow you or others to go twice in a row if they had previously lost initiative).

the 5 hour supply of oxygen is more likely recycling your own air; 5 hours of oxygen weighs a certain amount, and most EBAs don't weigh nearly enough for that. furthermore, not everything can wear EBA or a gas mask (or some sort of air recycling system similar to whatever magical device is inside of most EBAs). for example, the horse that many warlocks are stated to prefer using. or your friend the hatchling dragon, and so forth.

and as noted with thunderclap earlier, you've got an unimpressive chance for mesmerism to work on one target. use it on a group, and the odds of it doing something (specifically, more than another use of an action was likely to accomplish) are pretty large.

[kaid]

I also think some people are underestimating the usefulness of call lightning. Now as a normal invocation that takes 2 actions to cast its pretty questionable. But a spell that does 3d6 at level 3 and scales to your level in damage that DOES NOT MISS is one of the handiest attack spells around. Something flying at you at high speed like a missile a pistol shot while doing the same damage and similar range is unlikely to hit it having to roll high penalties. Call lightning pay your 10 PPE and your target is hit. Is your target partially concealed but you can still see some of them pay our 10 PPE for guaranteed hit.

Believe me, I'm not underestimating it.
I'm just not over-estimating it either.
Even a 50% chance of inflicting 1d6x10 MD means that your damage-per-attack average is going to be about 35 MD.
A 100% chance of inflicting 3d6 MD means that your damage-per-attack average is going to be about 10.5 MD.

Yes, it's extremely useful in certain limited circumstances... but those are limited circumstances.

Edit:
And using Call Lightning to make Called Shots... well, that's a can of worms that each GM would have to decide.

I would usually not allow called shots with call lightning but it still good for rooting out folks either with thick obscuring smoke/spell effects, and fast movers which can rack up penalties fast. Given that warlocks can throw down spells that limit visibility and impose -10 to hit they can pretty easily slobber up a combat area so they are pretty close to the only ones hitting anything.

[Killer Cyborg]

I also think some people are underestimating the usefulness of call lightning. Now as a normal invocation that takes 2 actions to cast its pretty questionable. But a spell that does 3d6 at level 3 and scales to your level in damage that DOES NOT MISS is one of the handiest attack spells around. Something flying at you at high speed like a missile a pistol shot while doing the same damage and similar range is unlikely to hit it having to roll high penalties. Call lightning pay your 10 PPE and your target is hit. Is your target partially concealed but you can still see some of them pay our 10 PPE for guaranteed hit.

Believe me, I'm not underestimating it.
I'm just not over-estimating it either.
Even a 50% chance of inflicting 1d6x10 MD means that your damage-per-attack average is going to be about 35 MD.
A 100% chance of inflicting 3d6 MD means that your damage-per-attack average is going to be about 10.5 MD.

Yes, it's extremely useful in certain limited circumstances... but those are limited circumstances.

Edit:
And using Call Lightning to make Called Shots... well, that's a can of worms that each GM would have to decide.

I would usually not allow called shots with call lightning but it still good for rooting out folks either with thick obscuring smoke/spell effects, and fast movers which can rack up penalties fast. Given that warlocks can throw down spells that limit visibility and impose -10 to hit they can pretty easily slobber up a combat area so they are pretty close to the only ones hitting anything.

Good point!

[flatline]

The nicest thing about Call Lightning is that Phantoms can cast it.

--flatline

[flatline]

In regards to Fire Warlocks being neutralized by Impervious to Fire.

It's very rare for vehicles and such to also be impervious to fire, so the warlock can divert his attention to those targets and let his allies handle the impervious targets. Or he can use a weapon that isn't dependent on fire.

It's not like he's completely helpless.

--flatline

[Mack]

The nicest thing about Call Lightning is that Phantoms can cast it.

--flatline

Also there's Lightning Arc (4D6+2/level, and unlimited uses for the duration). A level 4 caster (which is what I assume is a Phantom's) yields an average of 22 MD per attack.

[Glistam]

In regards to Fire Warlocks being neutralized by Impervious to Fire.

It's very rare for vehicles and such to also be impervious to fire, so the warlock can divert his attention to those targets and let his allies handle the impervious targets. Or he can use a weapon that isn't dependent on fire.

It's not like he's completely helpless.

--flatline

I never said the Fire Warlock was completely helpless in that situation, just limited. K.C. pointed out a bunch of the magical options already, and as you point out technology is still a viable option as well. The key is to know your strengths and weaknesses and play accordingly. The point though was that Impervious to Fire does limit a Fire Warlock's magical options against that opponent, and there is no one spell that limits any of the other Warlocks similarly.

For the record, I voted Fire Warlock. You don't have to convince me about them.

[Glistam]

I forgot to mention with all the warlocky talk here if any of you guys have not seen the newest rifter yet the atlantean warlock OCC from it will make your naughty bits tingle. Anybody who likes warlocks at all will look at that and go give it to me now!

Such as the fun part of a single element atlantean warlock starts with I believe 4 level 1 spells, 3 level 2 spells, 2 level three spells and one level 4 spell to start with.

Ugh. No thank you. Not in my game. Unless all Warlocks are getting upgraded like that, that's way too OP. Not to mention they can summon Spirits of Light too? Give me a break.

[flatline]

I forgot to mention with all the warlocky talk here if any of you guys have not seen the newest rifter yet the atlantean warlock OCC from it will make your naughty bits tingle. Anybody who likes warlocks at all will look at that and go give it to me now!

Such as the fun part of a single element atlantean warlock starts with I believe 4 level 1 spells, 3 level 2 spells, 2 level three spells and one level 4 spell to start with.

Ugh. No thank you. Not in my game. Unless all Warlocks are getting upgraded like that, that's way too OP. Not to mention they can summon Spirits of Light too? Give me a break.

I've never GM'd with a warlock PC, but unless the players specifically wanted a low power game, I'd let the warlock have all spells up to his level like a godling or demi-god.

-flatline

[Killer Cyborg]

The key is to know your strengths and weaknesses and play accordingly.

That's the fun thing about all the Warlocks.

[kaid]

The nicest thing about Call Lightning is that Phantoms can cast it.

--flatline

Also there's Lightning Arc (4D6+2/level, and unlimited uses for the duration). A level 4 caster (which is what I assume is a Phantom's) yields an average of 22 MD per attack.

Yes for level 4+ warlocks lightning arc is probably one of the best frequent use combat spells as it gives them a highly efficient ability to do constant magical attacks of reasonable damage. I was mostly looking at level 1-3 stuff. Stuff like this is why I so want that that atlantean source book to have the warlock version from the last rifter in it. Being able to start at level 1 with lightning arc would be spectacular.

[H.P. Hovercraft]

I picked Air/Water. Because I adore utility spells, love healing spells (Breath of Life I am looking at you), and of course I just love the idea of having one of the level 8 spells be...summon rainbow....

If only we could now have the Warlock Spell of Legend: "Summon DOUBLE Rainbow!!!"

[Shark_Force]

I forgot to mention with all the warlocky talk here if any of you guys have not seen the newest rifter yet the atlantean warlock OCC from it will make your naughty bits tingle. Anybody who likes warlocks at all will look at that and go give it to me now!

Such as the fun part of a single element atlantean warlock starts with I believe 4 level 1 spells, 3 level 2 spells, 2 level three spells and one level 4 spell to start with.

Ugh. No thank you. Not in my game. Unless all Warlocks are getting upgraded like that, that's way too OP. Not to mention they can summon Spirits of Light too? Give me a break.

i don't think i'd want that even as a player. feels too cheap.

i mean, i guess if i was in a group with godlings and such, i might resort to that in an effort to keep up, but it just feels unsatisfying to think of for a regular game. that's just taking all the challenge out of it. not to mention the problem with making the first level 100 times as awesome as every other level is that leveling up feels unrewarding. that's probably half the reason i don't like most tech-based classes... "oh, what's that? i got +5 to a few skills, a +1 bonus to some combat maneuver i rarely use, and +1 to strike with my energy rifle? uhhh... yay, i guess".

[FluidicAztec]

I voted for Air...but really I'm a fan of the Shadow Warlock. NB talents and spells. I would of course limit them to shadow magic only (plenty of those in various Rifters and the LoB).

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

I chose fire water. I'd name him Staggering Bear. Don't make me explain the joke.

Or maybe I'd name him Sud So'ping and give him his own laundromat.

[ShadowLogan]

Some defensive "Wall" spells can be cast so they drop on top of someone doing damage, so you get a defensive wall with a potential opening attack to boot. Damage isn't necessarily that great, but the weight alone could also incapacitate parties (require a PS of 60 to free oneself):
Earth: Wall of Clay (8ppe/6d6SDC)
Earth: Wall of Stone (15ppe/1d6x10SDC)
Earth: Wall of Thorns (15ppe/5d6SDC), this one can't be dropped on someone, but can hurt someone if falls in to it
Earth: Wall of Iron (45ppe/1d4MD or 2d6x10+30SDC)
Fire: Wall of Flame (15ppe, 4d6SDC run threw it, 2d6MD per 5ft of thickness), can't be dropped on someone
Fire: Screaming Wall of Flame (30ppe/4d6MD), can't be dropped on someone
Fire: Wall of Ice (30ppe/1d6x10SDC)
Water: Wall of Ice (20ppe/1d6x10SDC)

Heart.






....what?

Captain Planet?

I would usually not allow called shots with call lightning but it still good for rooting out folks either with thick obscuring smoke/spell effects, and fast movers which can rack up penalties fast. Given that warlocks can throw down spells that limit visibility and impose -10 to hit they can pretty easily slobber up a combat area so they are pretty close to the only ones hitting anything.

If I was to allow called shots with call lightning, I think the best way to handle it would be to require a strike roll like normal (so you still need to make the called shot difficulty, and can potentially miss completely if your minimum roll isn't enough).

The key is to know your strengths and weaknesses and play accordingly.

That's the fun thing about all the Warlocks.

That's true of any class though. Know your strengths and weakness and play accordingly.

[kaid]

I forgot to mention with all the warlocky talk here if any of you guys have not seen the newest rifter yet the atlantean warlock OCC from it will make your naughty bits tingle. Anybody who likes warlocks at all will look at that and go give it to me now!

Such as the fun part of a single element atlantean warlock starts with I believe 4 level 1 spells, 3 level 2 spells, 2 level three spells and one level 4 spell to start with.

Ugh. No thank you. Not in my game. Unless all Warlocks are getting upgraded like that, that's way too OP. Not to mention they can summon Spirits of Light too? Give me a break.

i don't think i'd want that even as a player. feels too cheap.

i mean, i guess if i was in a group with godlings and such, i might resort to that in an effort to keep up, but it just feels unsatisfying to think of for a regular game. that's just taking all the challenge out of it. not to mention the problem with making the first level 100 times as awesome as every other level is that leveling up feels unrewarding. that's probably half the reason i don't like most tech-based classes... "oh, what's that? i got +5 to a few skills, a +1 bonus to some combat maneuver i rarely use, and +1 to strike with my energy rifle? uhhh... yay, i guess".

Hehe yup its likely if it got put into a cannon book it would take a few shots upside the head with a nerf stick but really in games with cosmo knights, dragons, phase adepts having one spell casting class start off with some actual offensive punch does not seem that terrible. The angle summoning thing is a bit silly though that you would have to be of good alignment and it works more like the native american spirit summoning where you can summon it but once summoned it is not bound at all to do anything for you. I don't find it that crazy that dimensional hopping true atlanteans of good enough alignment would be that far out of whack being able to at least get an audience with a minion of light.

If I saw an RUE version of the warlock one thing from the true atlantean one I would love them to do is if you are a dual elemental warlock having access to a couple elemental fusionist abilities for the cost of related skills seems like it would be pretty nice.

[Shark_Force]

warlocks don't really need much of an RUE update. they're already pretty distinct and have useful abilities that others don't. mostly the classes that got a major update were the ones that needed a more clear identity... for example, shifters were basically just ley line walkers with a few stated preferences and a tendency to make pacts with undefined costs and benefits in RMB as far as mechanics were concerned. the RUE shifter is very clearly focused on a certain type of magic mechanically and has clearly-defined pacts that they can get. RMB rogue scholars were just people with lots of skills. RUE made them a teacher. RMB vagabonds were just people with very few skills (plus soap and candy). RUE made them into someone who is good at figuring people out (plus they're still the lords of soap and candy).

with warlocks, they have fairly decent PPE (bearing in mind their spells tend to cost a lot less), they each have access to a mostly-unique type of magic, they can call on elementals for assistance, and they have unique supporting abilities related to their element(s). they're already clearly defined mechanically.

[kaid]

The main reason I say they could use at least a RUE era update is simply because a subset of warlocks the elemental fusionists were introduced in the RUE and are able to learn some warlock spells. It would be nice to have an updated RUE era warlock occ to see if they interact with fusionists like fusionists work with warlocks.

Also most of the warlocks are using the conversion book template and I think given by cannon how common warlocks are in the rifts setting there should be a cannon non palladium RPG conversion warlock template. Right now about the only thing close to that we have is the elemental spirit shaman from the spirit west book and that has some pretty significant changes in how they work compared to normal warlocks such as having access to another set of spells with the shaman spells.

[random_username]

Space Warlock Air and Earth with the bonus of Space Magic spells and basic ley line walker special abilities (D6p83 - 3 Galaxies).
Several tricks/mods could get around the normal limit of HTH Basic only.
Get some natural armor with Invisibility Superior and Mystic Invisibility TW mods plus high level earth and air AOE damaging spells and wipe out armies as needed. Toss in a teleporting ability (item, buddy, etc) for quick escapes.

[Shark_Force]

HtH isn't really a huge limitation unless you're using ninjas and superspies martial arts forms, or have access to assassin or commando. and even then, still probably not a huge limitation.

by sticking with basic, you'll probably miss out on bonus punch and kick damage and bonuses to some combat maneuver you're not likely to need as a warlock, as well as WP paired.

but seriously, who turns to the warlock and expects them to be the one to disarm a person or to dual-wield swords in the first place?

that said, i still don't like OCCs that are basically "take everything this other OCC has except do it better and add some extra features as well", so i don't think i'd enjoy the space warlock either.

[Raze_7]

Fire / water since the updated vampire book that water magic is one of the few things that can mess up a vampire.

Their is also an elemental fusinist.

Fire Warlocks automatically get many ice spells, but I don't think that they get many water spells, except maybe making stagnant water move by boiling it.

[random_username]

HtH ...

that said, i still don't like OCCs that are basically "take everything this other OCC has except do it better and add some extra features as well", so i don't think i'd enjoy the space warlock either.

The Space Warlock is in itself essentially a mod for the Warlock OCC (or simply yet another variant Ley Line Walker/Rifter).

It provides several interesting benefits:
- provides greater variety for the warlock occ something veteran players are likely to enjoy
- access to a bonus/3rd type of spell focus/type
- if the Space magic spells are treated as being limited in the same manner as regular warlock spells: current level = maximum level available then it provides viable selections for levels 9 to 15. This makes the most sense and is inherently the most appropriate. This helps to eliminate the otherwise 'already have all the relevant spells at 8th level so now its just leftover filler for levels 9th to 15th for regular warlocks.
- its far easier to achieve and far more appropriate than brutal mods such as the World Tree mod (C2 Pantheons) when applied to a Warlock. The Space Warlock doesn't cheapen standard invocation OCCs such as Ley Line Walkers in this way. Several other mods exist that provide innate abilities similar to a Ley Line Walker's sensing abilities (W12 Psyscape - Psyscape Training, W7 Underseas - Shimmering Water, World Tree mod, etc).
- The plausibility of ending up in Rifts is extremely high since they spend all of their time messing around with nexuses and various relevant info points out that something almost if not always ends up getting tossed through any open nexus (see various Dimension Books, etc).

HTH access - Various tricks/mods
- again something that veteran players are likely to appreciate to avoid creating a seemingly generic Warlock beyond simply being a PPE battery for TW/EW items, etc.
- with the right trick/mod you can in theory end up choosing ANY HTH skill, with the high probability of being tossed through a Rift or something arriving through a Rift its very plausible to justify having actual access to any such HTH skill. As such its easy to create a very unique character if some obscure HTH is chosen, or more powerful in certain ways (defensively, offensively, or utility), and so forth.

[Thinyser]

If I HAD to pick it would be air or air/water.

Spoiler:

But really I would just be a godling with all 4 and get all elemental spells of my level... and the 5 super Psionics + one whole lesser group {sensitive} option, to round things out hehe).

[random_username]

If I HAD to pick it would be air or air/water.

Spoiler:

But really I would just be a godling with all 4 and get all elemental spells of my level... and the 5 super Psionics + one whole lesser group {sensitive} option, to round things out hehe).

Spoiler:

Don't forget to be from Asgard so you have totally viable access to the World Tree mod

[Shark_Force]

for at least the first few levels after 8, many warlocks will actually want to go back and pick up various spells that they've missed. i know as either an earth or air warlock, i'd be missing spells that i would have liked to take but couldn't fit in, and as any dual-element warlock i'm confident there would be a lot of great spells i skipped as well. haven't looked into single-element water or fire, but i suspect that there's probably a lot less competition...

but, having said that, i don't own mysteries of magic, which has yet even more warlock spells, and from what i've heard at least some of them are very interesting. i know, for example, that

(also, actually getting to level 9+ in the first place is going to take a looooooong time).

[89er]

I chose the earth/water warlock, due to the advantage in amphibious roles. You can make nano islands, drown vampires in stone aquariums and because no one else had it. This build could also be the best at setting up a colony or dealing with infrastructure.

[Mack]

So we're up to 42 votes now (Douglas Adams would declare that significant) and here's the poll summary.

If you allocate each of the dual-type votes to their respective areas (meaning an Air/Earth generates a 'half' vote for Air, and a 'half' vote for Earth):

• Air 47.6%
• Earth 20.2%
• Fire 21.4%
• Water 10.7%

Air is still way ahead, but doesn't own 61% of the vote like it did before.

[Glistam]

Fire has a lot more popularity than I thought it did.

[Kagashi]

Before Mysteries of Magic, Earth sucked, especially starting off at level 1. It offered no (personal) protective spells what so ever and its offensive spells were extremely limited to throwing stones (which combined with WP Targeting isnt so bad). I never understood why Gargoyle Mages were limited to level 3 Earth Warlocks. Ohhhh...they could cast shatter to destroy a simple SDC trinket! Ohhhhh! Oh wait, they could do that with their supernatural pinky toe. Pretty much, Gargoyle Mages simply use their extra PPE to power TW devices easier then the common Gargoyle.

Meanwhile, Air, Fire, and Water all offer some of offensive ability at level 1. Earth Warlocks better learn WP E Pistol, just like a common Vagabond. But after Mysteries of Magic, they get protective spells which are not all that sucky. Armor of Earth provides 12 MDC per level of exp and regenerates 1D6 MD per round, for only 12 PPE. That isnt bad at all. Previously, nobody would want Earth because other warlocks earned better spells starting off, simply for survivability. Now, Earth is a contender.

[random_username]

various water/storms vs vampires...

Water Shield (7th level, Ocean Magic) W32p109/110 Lemuria.

Invisible magic aura prevents contact with target by water, including vampires. Even listed to the extreme that vampires could even swim/dive/etc if they could overcome their fear of water. (summation/paraphrase from spell description)

Now just make it an ongoing aura provided via a magical item of some sort (evil rune, quasi rune/Kuznya/Nuhr, alchemical, obscure TW/EW, etc). Defensively handy for vampire intelligences too.

See W7 Underseas for most of the core Ocean Magic info - Ocean Wizard, Sea Druid, etc.

[Shark_Force]

Before Mysteries of Magic, Earth sucked, especially starting off at level 1. It offered no (personal) protective spells what so ever and its offensive spells were extremely limited to throwing stones (which combined with WP Targeting isnt so bad). I never understood why Gargoyle Mages were limited to level 3 Earth Warlocks. Ohhhh...they could cast shatter to destroy a simple SDC trinket! Ohhhhh! Oh wait, they could do that with their supernatural pinky toe. Pretty much, Gargoyle Mages simply use their extra PPE to power TW devices easier then the common Gargoyle.

Meanwhile, Air, Fire, and Water all offer some of offensive ability at level 1. Earth Warlocks better learn WP E Pistol, just like a common Vagabond. But after Mysteries of Magic, they get protective spells which are not all that sucky. Armor of Earth provides 12 MDC per level of exp and regenerates 1D6 MD per round, for only 12 PPE. That isnt bad at all. Previously, nobody would want Earth because other warlocks earned better spells starting off, simply for survivability. Now, Earth is a contender.

earth is great with or without that at level 1. you don't choose earth to become a more powerful warrior, you choose earth so you can build stuff.

at level 1, probably the most interesting to me would be create wood (mostly for later use with ironwood spell, but still useful on its own), dowsing (when you're walking through walls, it's good to know where the water is. also useful to keep you from dying of thirst), and either chameleon or dust storm. there are other useful ones (rock to mud will eventually allow you to create a limited amount of water from nothing once you can create rocks, for example, plus it can let you dig through stone), but mostly those can probably wait.

and in any event, all warlocks had better learn how to use a weapon (and conveniently, they all start with weapons and armour and the option for WPs, making them almost as protected and offensively strong as some man-at-arms OCCs, and most of the scholar and adventurer OCCs). your spells are less expensive than they would be for a ley line walker, but you're still typically going to have better range and damage with a decent laser rifle than any of the low level spells no matter what type of warlock you are. until you get a few levels under your belt, warlock damage spells are mostly just "this isn't worth using up an e-clip on" options anyways.

[kaid]

for at least the first few levels after 8, many warlocks will actually want to go back and pick up various spells that they've missed. i know as either an earth or air warlock, i'd be missing spells that i would have liked to take but couldn't fit in, and as any dual-element warlock i'm confident there would be a lot of great spells i skipped as well. haven't looked into single-element water or fire, but i suspect that there's probably a lot less competition...

but, having said that, i don't own mysteries of magic, which has yet even more warlock spells, and from what i've heard at least some of them are very interesting. i know, for example, that

(also, actually getting to level 9+ in the first place is going to take a looooooong time).

The ones from mysteries of magic are good a couple really notable ones though are earth warlocks get the ability to encase themselves with MDC stone armor. Its heavy and it slows them down a lot but its pretty much the only cannon warlock MDC capable armor spell.

[random_username]

for at least the first few levels after 8, many warlocks will actually want to go back and pick up various spells that they've missed. i know as either an earth or air warlock, i'd be missing spells that i would have liked to take but couldn't fit in, and as any dual-element warlock i'm confident there would be a lot of great spells i skipped as well. haven't looked into single-element water or fire, but i suspect that there's probably a lot less competition...

but, having said that, i don't own mysteries of magic, which has yet even more warlock spells, and from what i've heard at least some of them are very interesting. i know, for example, that

(also, actually getting to level 9+ in the first place is going to take a looooooong time).

The ones from mysteries of magic are good a couple really notable ones though are earth warlocks get the ability to encase themselves with MDC stone armor. Its heavy and it slows them down a lot but its pretty much the only cannon warlock MDC capable armor spell.

Space Warlock (D6p83 - 3 Galaxies) provides access to an extra warlock spell type of Space Magic (spells listed in D13:F3G p113-126). Includes Cosmic Armor (9th level) long duration, one of the best MDC per level available, decent air/space flight capabilities, essentially a space suit/aura that makes them look like a Cosmo Knight.

[Shark_Force]

Space Warlock (D6p83 - 3 Galaxies) provides access to an extra warlock spell type of Space Magic (spells listed in D13:3G p113-126). Includes Cosmic Armor (9th level) long duration, one of the best MDC per level available, decent air/space flight capabilities, essentially a space suit/aura that makes them look like a Cosmo Knight.

i didn't say there were no good space magic options. i said you don't need space magic to have good options for level 9+ warlocks to have useful and powerful spells available to choose from, because they almost undoubtedly missed out on some stuff they wanted from earlier levels.

[eliakon]

for at least the first few levels after 8, many warlocks will actually want to go back and pick up various spells that they've missed. i know as either an earth or air warlock, i'd be missing spells that i would have liked to take but couldn't fit in, and as any dual-element warlock i'm confident there would be a lot of great spells i skipped as well. haven't looked into single-element water or fire, but i suspect that there's probably a lot less competition...

but, having said that, i don't own mysteries of magic, which has yet even more warlock spells, and from what i've heard at least some of them are very interesting. i know, for example, that

(also, actually getting to level 9+ in the first place is going to take a looooooong time).

The ones from mysteries of magic are good a couple really notable ones though are earth warlocks get the ability to encase themselves with MDC stone armor. Its heavy and it slows them down a lot but its pretty much the only cannon warlock MDC capable armor spell.

Space Warlock (D6p83 - 3 Galaxies) provides access to an extra warlock spell type of Space Magic (spells listed in D13:F3G p113-126). Includes Cosmic Armor (9th level) long duration, one of the best MDC per level available, decent air/space flight capabilities, essentially a space suit/aura that makes them look like a Cosmo Knight.

Space Magic isn't a Warlock spell though.....Its a form of Invocation magic that certain Warlocks can learn in addition to their regular Warlock spells.
So Cosmic Armor et all aren't Warlocks Spells.....they are just spells that some Warlocks can take on top of their normal powers..

[random_username]

for at least the first few levels after 8, many warlocks will actually want to go back and pick up various spells that they've missed. i know as either an earth or air warlock, i'd be missing spells that i would have liked to take but couldn't fit in, and as any dual-element warlock i'm confident there would be a lot of great spells i skipped as well. haven't looked into single-element water or fire, but i suspect that there's probably a lot less competition...

but, having said that, i don't own mysteries of magic, which has yet even more warlock spells, and from what i've heard at least some of them are very interesting. i know, for example, that

(also, actually getting to level 9+ in the first place is going to take a looooooong time).

The ones from mysteries of magic are good a couple really notable ones though are earth warlocks get the ability to encase themselves with MDC stone armor. Its heavy and it slows them down a lot but its pretty much the only cannon warlock MDC capable armor spell.

Space Warlock (D6p83 - 3 Galaxies) provides access to an extra warlock spell type of Space Magic (spells listed in D13:F3G p113-126). Includes Cosmic Armor (9th level) long duration, one of the best MDC per level available, decent air/space flight capabilities, essentially a space suit/aura that makes them look like a Cosmo Knight.

Space Magic isn't a Warlock spell though.....Its a form of Invocation magic that certain Warlocks can learn in addition to their regular Warlock spells.
So Cosmic Armor et all aren't Warlocks Spells.....they are just spells that some Warlocks can take on top of their normal powers..

Space Magic is essentially available in two primary ways via the Space Warlock OCC. Space Warlock - Invocation Caster option (essentially a Ley Line Walker form) and is learned like a standard Invocation; or Space Warlock - Warlock Element Form and is fundamentally treated as a 5th warlock element type/grouping.

Perhaps the most fundamental reason from a basic game mechanic viewpoint is that Ley Line Walker/Invocation casters can actually learn many extra types of magic (over 6+ types: temporal, etc) though each one tends to have limits on how, why, and where they are able to do so.

Conversely Warlocks (similar to Mystics in their spell acquisition) are inherently 'unable to be taught' any magic (even elemental magic rather they are essentially endowed/gained per level only. Hence one of the only mods for this is the World Tree Mod (which endows magic spells) and the Space Warlock OCC (essentially a lesser variant version of the World Tree Mod in terms of game mechanics).
To do otherwise would open the door to Warlocks being able to learn spells through any variety of means such as those technically possible for invocation casters.

Imprecise wording of the Space Warlock OCC (as with many, many aspects in Rifts) may be confusing in this regard.

Ultimately cohesive bona fide comprehension of the individual aspect in conjunction with the inherent general nature plus the difficulties of the overall system is apt to allow folks to work though such issues.

If your particularly interested in doing so self-achievement is often preferable though I have wrote several forum articles in regards to the overall issues. There is also an essentially obstacle course style setting in regards to developing bona fide process analysis while simply being fun for folks up for that type of challenge.

Essentially some 'raise the bar' advanced gaming stuff for folks who are ready for such things.

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=132650
http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=129640
The third one I don't link since taking the time to find it is simply the first step in being prepared to explore it.

Side Note: Probably one of the best examples to understand the 'why' of bona fide game mechanics is to recognize the reasons why full conversion cyborgs are immune to Hit Point damage even though they still have a human brain. The truth of that may eventually lead to 'why' Juicer autododge cannot easily be eliminated in terms of game mechanics, and so forth.

[eliakon]

for at least the first few levels after 8, many warlocks will actually want to go back and pick up various spells that they've missed. i know as either an earth or air warlock, i'd be missing spells that i would have liked to take but couldn't fit in, and as any dual-element warlock i'm confident there would be a lot of great spells i skipped as well. haven't looked into single-element water or fire, but i suspect that there's probably a lot less competition...

but, having said that, i don't own mysteries of magic, which has yet even more warlock spells, and from what i've heard at least some of them are very interesting. i know, for example, that

(also, actually getting to level 9+ in the first place is going to take a looooooong time).

The ones from mysteries of magic are good a couple really notable ones though are earth warlocks get the ability to encase themselves with MDC stone armor. Its heavy and it slows them down a lot but its pretty much the only cannon warlock MDC capable armor spell.

Space Warlock (D6p83 - 3 Galaxies) provides access to an extra warlock spell type of Space Magic (spells listed in D13:F3G p113-126). Includes Cosmic Armor (9th level) long duration, one of the best MDC per level available, decent air/space flight capabilities, essentially a space suit/aura that makes them look like a Cosmo Knight.

Space Magic isn't a Warlock spell though.....Its a form of Invocation magic that certain Warlocks can learn in addition to their regular Warlock spells.
So Cosmic Armor et all aren't Warlocks Spells.....they are just spells that some Warlocks can take on top of their normal powers..

Space Magic is essentially available in two primary ways via the Space Warlock OCC. Space Warlock - Invocation Caster option (essentially a Ley Line Walker form) and is learned like a standard Invocation; or Space Warlock - Warlock Element Form and is fundamentally treated as a 5th warlock element type/grouping.

Perhaps the most fundamental reason from a basic game mechanic viewpoint is that Ley Line Walker/Invocation casters can actually learn many extra types of magic (over 6+ types: temporal, etc) though each one tends to have limits on how, why, and where they are able to do so.

Conversely Warlocks (similar to Mystics in their spell acquisition) are inherently 'unable to be taught' any magic (even elemental magic rather they are essentially endowed/gained per level only. Hence one of the only mods for this is the World Tree Mod (which endows magic spells) and the Space Warlock OCC (essentially a lesser variant version of the World Tree Mod in terms of game mechanics).
To do otherwise would open the door to Warlocks being able to learn spells through any variety of means such as those technically possible for invocation casters.

Imprecise wording of the Space Warlock OCC (as with many, many aspects in Rifts) may be confusing in this regard.

Ultimately cohesive bona fide comprehension of the individual aspect in conjunction with the inherent general nature plus the difficulties of the overall system is apt to allow folks to work though such issues.

If your particularly interested in doing so self-achievement is often preferable though I have wrote several forum articles in regards to the overall issues. There is also an essentially obstacle course style setting in regards to developing bona fide process analysis while simply being fun for folks up for that type of challenge.

Essentially some 'raise the bar' advanced gaming stuff for folks who are ready for such things.

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=132650
http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=129640
The third one I don't link since taking the time to find it is simply the first step in being prepared to explore it.

Side Note: Probably one of the best examples to understand the 'why' of bona fide game mechanics is to recognize the reasons why full conversion cyborgs are immune to Hit Point damage even though they still have a human brain. The truth of that may eventually lead to 'why' Juicer autododge cannot easily be eliminated in terms of game mechanics, and so forth.

I am going to give this post the benefit of the doubt and assume that it is not actually meant to be the utterly insulting statement that it was.....(the idea that I do not have 'bona fide comprehension of the system' or that I am not 'ready' for 'advanced gaming' is HORRIBLY insulting, and elitist)
I will instead assume that it was meant to be a polite post where the poster was explaining their view of how the magic system worked....
Which is great. But it doesn't change the fact that Space Magic is not a Warlock Spell. Its not a '5th element' Its just that THESE warlocks can (for some reason) pick these spells instead of/in addition to their normal warlock spells.

[kaid]

Just reading the new sneak peak of the byzantium book it looks like there is some fire and earth warlock spell loving in it. Not sure how many spells but looks like at least a few which is nice.

[Glistam]

I looked at the poll again for this topic and I was amused that there's still no-one who selected Water Warlock as the sole element. Poor Water!

[Thinyser]

I looked at the poll again for this topic and I was amused that there's still no-one who selected Water Warlock as the sole element. Poor Water!

Water sucks it really really sucks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcTrI6W8vIY

[kaid]

It depends on the campaign. In general I would not run water as primary or solo element for general campaign uses but if you are doing an underseas/lemurian/tritonian campaign water warlocks are outstanding. They are a somewhat one trick pony but if they are in their element that one trick is AMAZINGLY good. They also get their catastrophic level damage spells sooner than the other warlocks but it is only usable on a body of water.

So for a general poll it makes a ton of sense that nobody is really picking water but if they are in a waterborn adventure then my pick would change significantly.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I looked at the poll again for this topic and I was amused that there's still no-one who selected Water Warlock as the sole element. Poor Water!

Water sucks it really really sucks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcTrI6W8vIY

If you are not going to be On The Water (oceans, seas, lakes and rivers) then most of the water elemental spells are not very useful.

[Library Ogre]

It depends on the campaign. In general I would not run water as primary or solo element for general campaign uses but if you are doing an underseas/lemurian/tritonian campaign water warlocks are outstanding. They are a somewhat one trick pony but if they are in their element that one trick is AMAZINGLY good. They also get their catastrophic level damage spells sooner than the other warlocks but it is only usable on a body of water.

So for a general poll it makes a ton of sense that nobody is really picking water but if they are in a waterborn adventure then my pick would change significantly.

Another place where straight water does very well is in a desert campaign... folk in the Baalgor Wastelands love them a Water Warlock.

[Shark_Force]

It depends on the campaign. In general I would not run water as primary or solo element for general campaign uses but if you are doing an underseas/lemurian/tritonian campaign water warlocks are outstanding. They are a somewhat one trick pony but if they are in their element that one trick is AMAZINGLY good. They also get their catastrophic level damage spells sooner than the other warlocks but it is only usable on a body of water.

So for a general poll it makes a ton of sense that nobody is really picking water but if they are in a waterborn adventure then my pick would change significantly.

Another place where straight water does very well is in a desert campaign... folk in the Baalgor Wastelands love them a Water Warlock.

earth can find underground water at impressive distances, and can also provide wood and help out with farming in various ways. I'd still rather have earth