Dwarven Paratrooper equipment/kit

[Warpig]

So I recently rolled up a Paratrooper OCC (and dwarven race from CB1).

I'm following the OCC template for starting equipment... 1 Weapon per W.P. Skill etc, and have 7,000 credits + 4,000 Black Market values item to spend on some initial equipment.
As opposed to being a tank or ninja I'm taking other skills to make a jack-of-all-trades spec ops merc. ...demolitions, find contraband, prowl, underwater demo, etc

Can I get some recommended weapons or equipment to get? So many books to pour through...

Here's what I'm looking at taking, but want to consult the 'megaverse' before finalizing:
-Hercules Club, 3D6 SDC, wood & silver.
-Mage Fire Skorblade Broad Sword, 2D6 MD, +1 to strike and parry.
-NE-4 Plasma Cartridge Pistol, 1D4x10 MD, range 500ft, payload 10, Ammo: 6 plasma cartridge magazines. Wilk's "Aimer" Gun-Sight, +1 to strike and initiative on aimed shot.
-M-160 Assault Rifle, single 3D6 MD/3 round burst 1D6x10 MD, range 2000ft, payload 30, Ammo: 6 E-clips.
-ATL-7 Anti-Tank Laser Rifle, 3d6x10+20 MD, range 3000ft, payload 1, Ammo: 6 E-clips.
-M-20 Assault Rifle, single AP round 1D4x10 SDC/8 round burst 3 MD 2000ft, GL plasma 4D6 MD 6ft area 1200ft, laser targeting +2 to strike up to 1200ft, payload 4 grenades / 64 round magazine. Ammo: 6 plasma grenades / 6 AP magazines / 4 Silver bullet magazines (4D6 SDC single)

Set of Fatigues, 1 set of personal clothing, IDF Commando Wristwatch, Binoculars, IRMSS Medical Kit, Language Translator, Utility Belt, Battle Harness, Free Fall Parachute, Backpack, Nylon rope (300ft), Grappling Hook & Nylon rope (300ft), Tinted goggles, Gas Mask, Canteen, Compass (+10% Land Navigation), Handcuffs, Disposable cigarette lighter, Bedroll, 10 MRE's, Flashlight, Survival Kit, Hand Radio, Camouflage Ghillie Suit (+5% prowl and +10% blend), S.C.U.B.A gear, Wet Suit, small stash of personal cigars in an airtight container, 6 Flares, 2 Smoke grenades, 2 Frag Grenades 2D6 MD for 20ft, 2 Triax Fusion Blocks 2D6x10 MD 10ft area w/ keypad timer.

[taalismn]

For a paratrooper, I'd drop anything that uses really specialized ammunition like plasma cartridges, unless you absolutely KNOW it's going to be a quick in-out mission drop. Stick with e-clip powered weapons, especially if you can use the same e-clips as any enemy you've killed. With the right adaptors, e-clips are the batteries of the megaverse, and if your drop ends up stranding you behind enemy lines longer than expected, you can possibly live off the land and the ammunition of your enemies.
Good vibroknife...good...
Maybe a few blocks of plastique explosive...good for sabotage(blowing up bridges and other obstacles...or MAKING obstacles) .... In the alternative, carry one or two claymore mines( to guard your back or cover your extraction point).
Sensor headset/band, definitely....especially if you can fit in enhanced nightvision(though, if I recall, Dwarves already have pretty good darkness vision) and telescopics.

[Pepsi Jedi]

NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people.

The Wilks laser sword (chuckles) Does 5D6 damage and would take up alot less room in your kit than a broad sword if you're jumping into an area.

I concur that you'll want something that works on universal Eclips. If you want something that packs a punch for a pistol I'd look at the NG Particle beam pistol
NG-PB713 PBeam: 5D6 Crit does 50% more on nat 19 or 20 Payload: 16

The rest. Well that's alot to carry. You've got a broad sword, a massive club, three full size rifles, a pistol. Now you might not be jumping with all of that but you're a dwarf too, it's going to be pretty absurd if you tried.

[Warpig]

For a paratrooper, I'd drop anything that uses really specialized ammunition like plasma cartridges, unless you absolutely KNOW it's going to be a quick in-out mission drop. Stick with e-clip powered weapons, especially if you can use the same e-clips as any enemy you've killed. With the right adaptors, e-clips are the batteries of the megaverse, and if your drop ends up stranding you behind enemy lines longer than expected, you can possibly live off the land and the ammunition of your enemies.
Good vibroknife...good...
Maybe a few blocks of plastique explosive...good for sabotage(blowing up bridges and other obstacles...or MAKING obstacles) .... In the alternative, carry one or two claymore mines( to guard your back or cover your extraction point).
Sensor headset/band, definitely....especially if you can fit in enhanced nightvision(though, if I recall, Dwarves already have pretty good darkness vision) and telescopics.

Very valid point on availability of interchangeable e-clips... didn't even think of scrounging enemies to replenish that. ...to be honest the pistol focus was high damage, in exchange for range as a 'oh sh*t' last resort, but if I NEED ammo that may be essential. As far as getting in trouble for toting Naruni stuff, as fas as the CS goes, I'd probably have more issues as it is being a Dwarf (D-Bee). What book can I find claymore mines?

[taalismn]

[ What book can I find claymore mines?

Rifts Mercenaries covers new NG explosives.

[Warpig]

NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people.

The Wilks laser sword (chuckles) Does 5D6 damage and would take up alot less room in your kit than a broad sword if you're jumping into an area.

I concur that you'll want something that works on universal Eclips. If you want something that packs a punch for a pistol I'd look at the NG Particle beam pistol
NG-PB713 PBeam: 5D6 Crit does 50% more on nat 19 or 20 Payload: 16

The rest. Well that's alot to carry. You've got a broad sword, a massive club, three full size rifles, a pistol. Now you might not be jumping with all of that but you're a dwarf too, it's going to be pretty absurd if you tried.

Lol the laser sword, that's a bit risky...
I don't plan on taking everything with me on every mission, it'll be dependent, so that should cut back on my weight...

[Warpig]

[ What book can I find claymore mines?

Rifts Mercenaries covers new NG explosives.

Bingo, thanks

[Pepsi Jedi]

NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people.

The Wilks laser sword (chuckles) Does 5D6 damage and would take up alot less room in your kit than a broad sword if you're jumping into an area.

I concur that you'll want something that works on universal Eclips. If you want something that packs a punch for a pistol I'd look at the NG Particle beam pistol
NG-PB713 PBeam: 5D6 Crit does 50% more on nat 19 or 20 Payload: 16

The rest. Well that's alot to carry. You've got a broad sword, a massive club, three full size rifles, a pistol. Now you might not be jumping with all of that but you're a dwarf too, it's going to be pretty absurd if you tried.

Lol the laser sword, that's a bit risky...
I don't plan on taking everything with me on every mission, it'll be dependent, so that should cut back on my weight...

The sword's not really that risky. If memory serves it works for a minimum of 20 minutes (15+5D6) before it 'might' be drained. If you think about that. That's a LONG time. Unless you're walking around with the light saber on using it as a glow stick to see in the dark, that's 80 full melees of fighting before you'd need to recharge. How often are you in combat that goes 80 melees? Not 80 actions. 80 melees. At level 1 that would be 320 strikes minimum (Assuming you have a HTH style that gives you the 4 APM total to start).

You keep it on your belt. When you 'draw' it, you turn it on. Slash people with the light saber. When you're done you turn it off. Even if your GM rounds up to 'Any part of a melee counts as a melee for the purposes of keeping track of the light swords battery' you still have 80 melees worth. Chances are your fights aren't lasting 320+ actions. Not straight in a row. If you get to about 60 melees worth, you plug it into the Eclip when it's on your belt for the next 10 minutes and you're good to go again.

The sword is only risky if you try and use it beyond that 80 melee minimum. Anyone that is getting into light saber fights and trying to kill things with a melee weapon that does 5D6 MD "Should" be smart enough not to push it past that 20 minute mark, unless they had absolutely positively no other option available what so ever.

if you're really worried... buy two. Rotate them. Keep one for use and one charged. When one gets to the 15 or so minute mark. 60 melees or so. Spend a couple of actions, draw the full one, and plug in the one you've been using. At that point you've conducted 240 actions(1200D6 in damage. lol). If what ever you're trying to kill isn't dead by the 240th action, spending a couple to switch to a 'fresh' light saber isn't going to make all the difference in the world.


As for the rest. Don't forget that ATL is silly. It uses an entire clip for one shot (Which you might miss) and is massive and huge. The write up says it needs two people to carry it around. (The actual weight doesn't really jibe with this, but it -does- say it), your char is a dwarf, now they're pretty hearty, but still the gun's going to be bigger than you are. It does good damage, if you hit with it, but unless you're fighting one single enemy, it's not going to be very viable. Takes time to reload and fire again too. If you DO manage to get in position and let fly with it, suddenly everyone on the other side of the engagement has you marked for their #1 priority to take out, as that thing might drop them in one go. So you've got converging fire pouring at you. That's with out touching the fact that it's rare, and from SA. So unless your game is in SA you're not likely to know about it or have it. And also not touching that Palladium has partially Disavowed the SA books and suggest power reduction to even use stuff from there.

[flatline]

Some of those items are not commonly available. Are all those items on your GM's approved list?

--flatline

[guardiandashi]

So I recently rolled up a Paratrooper OCC (and dwarven race from CB1).

I'm following the OCC template for starting equipment... 1 Weapon per W.P. Skill etc, and have 7,000 credits + 4,000 Black Market values item to spend on some initial equipment.
As opposed to being a tank or ninja I'm taking other skills to make a jack-of-all-trades spec ops merc. ...demolitions, find contraband, prowl, underwater demo, etc

Can I get some recommended weapons or equipment to get? So many books to pour through...

Here's what I'm looking at taking, but want to consult the 'megaverse' before finalizing:
-Hercules Club, 3D6 SDC, wood & silver.
-Mage Fire Skorblade Broad Sword, 2D6 MD, +1 to strike and parry.
-NE-4 Plasma Cartridge Pistol, 1D4x10 MD, range 500ft, payload 10, Ammo: 6 plasma cartridge magazines. Wilk's "Aimer" Gun-Sight, +1 to strike and initiative on aimed shot.
-M-160 Assault Rifle, single 3D6 MD/3 round burst 1D6x10 MD, range 2000ft, payload 30, Ammo: 6 E-clips.
-ATL-7 Anti-Tank Laser Rifle, 3d6x10+20 MD, range 3000ft, payload 1, Ammo: 6 E-clips.
-M-20 Assault Rifle, single AP round 1D4x10 SDC/8 round burst 3 MD 2000ft, GL plasma 4D6 MD 6ft area 1200ft, laser targeting +2 to strike up to 1200ft, payload 4 grenades / 64 round magazine. Ammo: 6 plasma grenades / 6 AP magazines / 4 Silver bullet magazines (4D6 SDC single)

Set of Fatigues, 1 set of personal clothing, IDF Commando Wristwatch, Binoculars, IRMSS Medical Kit, Language Translator, Utility Belt, Battle Harness, Free Fall Parachute, Backpack, Nylon rope (300ft), Grappling Hook & Nylon rope (300ft), Tinted goggles, Gas Mask, Canteen, Compass (+10% Land Navigation), Handcuffs, Disposable cigarette lighter, Bedroll, 10 MRE's, Flashlight, Survival Kit, Hand Radio, Camouflage Ghillie Suit (+5% prowl and +10% blend), S.C.U.B.A gear, Wet Suit, small stash of personal cigars in an airtight container, 6 Flares, 2 Smoke grenades, 2 Frag Grenades 2D6 MD for 20ft, 2 Triax Fusion Blocks 2D6x10 MD 10ft area w/ keypad timer.

-Hercules Club, 3D6 SDC, wood & silver.
I might consider a neural mace as an alternative they seem to be extremely common in the areas that the coalition is around and stun/disorient effects can be evil.

-Mage Fire Skorblade Broad Sword, 2D6 MD, +1 to strike and parry.
a tech alternative may be the "laser sword", or vibro-sword/axe/ or for evil loll's a chain sword

-NE-4 Plasma Cartridge Pistol, 1D4x10 MD, range 500ft, payload 10, Ammo: 6 plasma cartridge magazines. Wilk's "Aimer" Gun-Sight, +1 to strike and initiative on aimed shot.
the ammo and coalition issues were mentioned. a CP-30 from coalition war campaign is a decent pistol, there was also an ion weapon from rifts main book that hit amazingly hard.

-M-160 Assault Rifle, single 3D6 MD/3 round burst 1D6x10 MD, range 2000ft, payload 30, Ammo: 6 E-clips.
-ATL-7 Anti-Tank Laser Rifle, 3d6x10+20 MD, range 3000ft, payload 1, Ammo: 6 E-clips.
this is awesome for single shot damage... but sustained damage I would much prefer one of the plasma cannons/plasma ejectors that do 1d6X10 per shot, the C-29, or the NG E-4(I think) the c29 gets 8 shots per canister style eclip (or 8d6X10 total)

-M-20 Assault Rifle, single AP round 1D4x10 SDC/8 round burst 3 MD 2000ft, GL plasma 4D6 MD 6ft area 1200ft, laser targeting +2 to strike up to 1200ft, payload 4 grenades / 64 round magazine. Ammo: 6 plasma grenades / 6 AP magazines / 4 Silver bullet magazines (4D6 SDC single)

[Svartalf]

Some of those items are not commonly available. Are all those items on your GM's approved list?

--flatline

Yeah, are you playing as part of the New Navy? If not how the eff did you get your mitts on an M 160?

[glitterboy2098]

So I recently rolled up a Paratrooper OCC (and dwarven race from CB1).

I'm following the OCC template for starting equipment... 1 Weapon per W.P. Skill etc, and have 7,000 credits + 4,000 Black Market values item to spend on some initial equipment.
As opposed to being a tank or ninja I'm taking other skills to make a jack-of-all-trades spec ops merc. ...demolitions, find contraband, prowl, underwater demo, etc

Can I get some recommended weapons or equipment to get? So many books to pour through...

Here's what I'm looking at taking, but want to consult the 'megaverse' before finalizing:
-Hercules Club, 3D6 SDC, wood & silver.
-Mage Fire Skorblade Broad Sword, 2D6 MD, +1 to strike and parry.
-NE-4 Plasma Cartridge Pistol, 1D4x10 MD, range 500ft, payload 10, Ammo: 6 plasma cartridge magazines. Wilk's "Aimer" Gun-Sight, +1 to strike and initiative on aimed shot.
-M-160 Assault Rifle, single 3D6 MD/3 round burst 1D6x10 MD, range 2000ft, payload 30, Ammo: 6 E-clips.
-ATL-7 Anti-Tank Laser Rifle, 3d6x10+20 MD, range 3000ft, payload 1, Ammo: 6 E-clips.
-M-20 Assault Rifle, single AP round 1D4x10 SDC/8 round burst 3 MD 2000ft, GL plasma 4D6 MD 6ft area 1200ft, laser targeting +2 to strike up to 1200ft, payload 4 grenades / 64 round magazine. Ammo: 6 plasma grenades / 6 AP magazines / 4 Silver bullet magazines (4D6 SDC single)

strike through on items i'd not allow as a GM. the ATL-7 is very rare in the south american silver river republics.. super rare in the rest of south america, and pretty much completely unknown anywhere else in the world.
the M-160 is new nevy tech.. while it might be pre-rifts, it is still going to be super rare even in north america.
i'd allow the M-20 mainly because as an SDC weapon, i could see something close to it being re-developed by some other group.
i'm not even sure what a "Mage Fire Skorblade" is but it sounds like a major magic item

and i'd waffle on the naruni pistol

also, i'm nopt sure what the heck a 'Hercules club is' but if you want a big stick with some metal studs, that isn't too hard to get.

[taalismn]

Folding trailbike for quick movement on the ground?
Obviously optional equipment, depending on your mission.

[glitterboy2098]

Folding trailbike for quick movement on the ground?
Obviously optional equipment, depending on your mission.

i believe dinosaur swamp adventures has something like that.

[taalismn]

Folding trailbike for quick movement on the ground?
Obviously optional equipment, depending on your mission.

i believe dinosaur swamp adventures has something like that.

Indeed. And a very modular version could potentially be re-assembled into a wheeled pannier to allow the 'trooper to haul heavier loads(WW2 gGerman paratroopers had wheeled cargo panniers designed to be pulled along on the ground after being dropped with the troops).

[Warpig]

Some of those items are not commonly available. Are all those items on your GM's approved list?

--flatline

I didn't have direct guidance just that I'd have access to mostly anything as a Merc to pick my starting Wpns but within reason, thus no rune weapons, kittani, Japan stuff

[Warpig]

So I recently rolled up a Paratrooper OCC (and dwarven race from CB1).

I'm following the OCC template for starting equipment... 1 Weapon per W.P. Skill etc, and have 7,000 credits + 4,000 Black Market values item to spend on some initial equipment.
As opposed to being a tank or ninja I'm taking other skills to make a jack-of-all-trades spec ops merc. ...demolitions, find contraband, prowl, underwater demo, etc

Can I get some recommended weapons or equipment to get? So many books to pour through...

Here's what I'm looking at taking, but want to consult the 'megaverse' before finalizing:
-Hercules Club, 3D6 SDC, wood & silver.
-Mage Fire Skorblade Broad Sword, 2D6 MD, +1 to strike and parry.
-NE-4 Plasma Cartridge Pistol, 1D4x10 MD, range 500ft, payload 10, Ammo: 6 plasma cartridge magazines. Wilk's "Aimer" Gun-Sight, +1 to strike and initiative on aimed shot.
-M-160 Assault Rifle, single 3D6 MD/3 round burst 1D6x10 MD, range 2000ft, payload 30, Ammo: 6 E-clips.
-ATL-7 Anti-Tank Laser Rifle, 3d6x10+20 MD, range 3000ft, payload 1, Ammo: 6 E-clips.
-M-20 Assault Rifle, single AP round 1D4x10 SDC/8 round burst 3 MD 2000ft, GL plasma 4D6 MD 6ft area 1200ft, laser targeting +2 to strike up to 1200ft, payload 4 grenades / 64 round magazine. Ammo: 6 plasma grenades / 6 AP magazines / 4 Silver bullet magazines (4D6 SDC single)

strike through on items i'd not allow as a GM. the ATL-7 is very rare in the south american silver river republics.. super rare in the rest of south america, and pretty much completely unknown anywhere else in the world.
the M-160 is new nevy tech.. while it might be pre-rifts, it is still going to be super rare even in north america.
i'd allow the M-20 mainly because as an SDC weapon, i could see something close to it being re-developed by some other group.
i'm not even sure what a "Mage Fire Skorblade" is but it sounds like a major magic item

and i'd waffle on the naruni pistol

also, i'm nopt sure what the heck a 'Hercules club is' but if you want a big stick with some metal studs, that isn't too hard to get.

Ya, I haven't gotten feedback yet on the ATL-7, it may get kanked as being overpowered too rare.
The M-160 while rare, I could arguably have acquired it through trading or some previous joint op w/ the new navy... What got me is its as good underwater as on land. Scuba Steve certified.
It says the M-20 is commonly traded, I didn't see issues w/ that, and it's the best fit for W.P. Rifle skill.
It looks like I'm going to swap for the wilks laser sword... easier to pack and I have to consider I shouldn't have e-clip problems taking them off of the dead. The Magefire Skor Blade is from one of the Merc Books.
The Hercules club is on any medieval/SDC weapons chart... I wanted to have something for vamps/were beasts as nothing else I got would hurt them

[Crow Splat]

There are many GMs that wouldn't allow a lot of those things as starting gear. There are also many that would (myself included).

If you are allowed that gear, I would caution you will be walking around with a number of items that, if stolen, would net the thief enough money for a long vacation if not retirement. At some point, someone will try to liberate you of your earthly belongings.

I like to play mercs more low key. I would take mostly Northern Gun or Wellington gear and maybe try to sneak a JA-12 past the GM. Nothing too fancy but gear that would put off the vibe to potential employers that at least I have good enough sense to equip myself properly.

Just my .02

[flatline]

The weapons you've listed are all fine weapons. The ATL-7 might be a little hard to feed since I don't know if it will accept commonly available e-clips, but the M-160, I'm pretty sure, will use standard e-clips just fine.

The problem with exotic weapons is that they can draw attention to you. I'd choose one commonly available weapon to carry when you want to be able to blend in. Only pull out your exotics when you need the extra firepower.

--flatline

[Warpig]

Some more info on this... I'm hopping into a running campaign where players may be a level or 2 higher.
More than that, I've only got 52 MDC environmental armor protecting me... I need to be able to dish out max damage ...Fast. According to the GM, players will be maimed, killed, he doesn't sugar coat it

[flatline]

Well, I hate to tell you this, but you're an SDC creature with non-regenerating MDC armor. Unless you have a steady supply of armor or can find a force field or something, you're toast unless you play smart enough that you never take any damage.

--flatline

[Razzinold]

The weapons you've listed are all fine weapons. The ATL-7 might be a little hard to feed since I don't know if it will accept commonly available e-clips, but the M-160, I'm pretty sure, will use standard e-clips just fine.

The problem with exotic weapons is that they can draw attention to you. I'd choose one commonly available weapon to carry when you want to be able to blend in. Only pull out your exotics when you need the extra firepower.

--flatline

He could also take that M-160 and try and disguise it a bit, maybe paint it, or fit a fake shell over it so it looks a bit different or possibly move the entire inner workings into another rifle.

I mean do a youtube search on people disguising shotguns as super soakers, if we can do it now I'm sure a talented gun smith could do it then.

At the very least don't carry it slung across your chest, use a rifle holster or cover with a poncho and give it a quick coat of paint.

[Nox Equites]

So I recently rolled up a Paratrooper OCC (and dwarven race from CB1).

I'm following the OCC template for starting equipment... 1 Weapon per W.P. Skill etc, and have 7,000 credits + 4,000 Black Market values item to spend on some initial equipment.
As opposed to being a tank or ninja I'm taking other skills to make a jack-of-all-trades spec ops merc. ...demolitions, find contraband, prowl, underwater demo, etc

Can I get some recommended weapons or equipment to get? So many books to pour through...

Here's what I'm looking at taking, but want to consult the 'megaverse' before finalizing:
-Hercules Club, 3D6 SDC, wood & silver.
-Mage Fire Skorblade Broad Sword, 2D6 MD, +1 to strike and parry.
-NE-4 Plasma Cartridge Pistol, 1D4x10 MD, range 500ft, payload 10, Ammo: 6 plasma cartridge magazines. Wilk's "Aimer" Gun-Sight, +1 to strike and initiative on aimed shot.
-M-160 Assault Rifle, single 3D6 MD/3 round burst 1D6x10 MD, range 2000ft, payload 30, Ammo: 6 E-clips.
-ATL-7 Anti-Tank Laser Rifle, 3d6x10+20 MD, range 3000ft, payload 1, Ammo: 6 E-clips.
-M-20 Assault Rifle, single AP round 1D4x10 SDC/8 round burst 3 MD 2000ft, GL plasma 4D6 MD 6ft area 1200ft, laser targeting +2 to strike up to 1200ft, payload 4 grenades / 64 round magazine. Ammo: 6 plasma grenades / 6 AP magazines / 4 Silver bullet magazines (4D6 SDC single)

Set of Fatigues, 1 set of personal clothing, IDF Commando Wristwatch, Binoculars, IRMSS Medical Kit, Language Translator, Utility Belt, Battle Harness, Free Fall Parachute, Backpack, Nylon rope (300ft), Grappling Hook & Nylon rope (300ft), Tinted goggles, Gas Mask, Canteen, Compass (+10% Land Navigation), Handcuffs, Disposable cigarette lighter, Bedroll, 10 MRE's, Flashlight, Survival Kit, Hand Radio, Camouflage Ghillie Suit (+5% prowl and +10% blend), S.C.U.B.A gear, Wet Suit, small stash of personal cigars in an airtight container, 6 Flares, 2 Smoke grenades, 2 Frag Grenades 2D6 MD for 20ft, 2 Triax Fusion Blocks 2D6x10 MD 10ft area w/ keypad timer.

How are you carrying it all without an exoskeleton? Is it all on you for every mission, or are you planning different load outs depending on mission? Where are you holding each item? Keep in mind that unless you are breaking the ATL-7 down for transport, if that is feasible, it is very long and your dwarf is short. The spread of items from three continents and two plus dimensions is a bit much for a starting character. Once he gets around for several levels it comes to whether he knows about some gear or not.

[Warpig]

So I recently rolled up a Paratrooper OCC (and dwarven race from CB1).

I'm following the OCC template for starting equipment... 1 Weapon per W.P. Skill etc, and have 7,000 credits + 4,000 Black Market values item to spend on some initial equipment.
As opposed to being a tank or ninja I'm taking other skills to make a jack-of-all-trades spec ops merc. ...demolitions, find contraband, prowl, underwater demo, etc

Can I get some recommended weapons or equipment to get? So many books to pour through...

Here's what I'm looking at taking, but want to consult the 'megaverse' before finalizing:
-Hercules Club, 3D6 SDC, wood & silver.
-Mage Fire Skorblade Broad Sword, 2D6 MD, +1 to strike and parry.
-NE-4 Plasma Cartridge Pistol, 1D4x10 MD, range 500ft, payload 10, Ammo: 6 plasma cartridge magazines. Wilk's "Aimer" Gun-Sight, +1 to strike and initiative on aimed shot.
-M-160 Assault Rifle, single 3D6 MD/3 round burst 1D6x10 MD, range 2000ft, payload 30, Ammo: 6 E-clips.
-ATL-7 Anti-Tank Laser Rifle, 3d6x10+20 MD, range 3000ft, payload 1, Ammo: 6 E-clips.
-M-20 Assault Rifle, single AP round 1D4x10 SDC/8 round burst 3 MD 2000ft, GL plasma 4D6 MD 6ft area 1200ft, laser targeting +2 to strike up to 1200ft, payload 4 grenades / 64 round magazine. Ammo: 6 plasma grenades / 6 AP magazines / 4 Silver bullet magazines (4D6 SDC single)

Set of Fatigues, 1 set of personal clothing, IDF Commando Wristwatch, Binoculars, IRMSS Medical Kit, Language Translator, Utility Belt, Battle Harness, Free Fall Parachute, Backpack, Nylon rope (300ft), Grappling Hook & Nylon rope (300ft), Tinted goggles, Gas Mask, Canteen, Compass (+10% Land Navigation), Handcuffs, Disposable cigarette lighter, Bedroll, 10 MRE's, Flashlight, Survival Kit, Hand Radio, Camouflage Ghillie Suit (+5% prowl and +10% blend), S.C.U.B.A gear, Wet Suit, small stash of personal cigars in an airtight container, 6 Flares, 2 Smoke grenades, 2 Frag Grenades 2D6 MD for 20ft, 2 Triax Fusion Blocks 2D6x10 MD 10ft area w/ keypad timer.

How are you carrying it all without an exoskeleton? Is it all on you for every mission, or are you planning different load outs depending on mission? Where are you holding each item? Keep in mind that unless you are breaking the ATL-7 down for transport, if that is feasible, it is very long and your dwarf is short. The spread of items from three continents and two plus dimensions is a bit much for a starting character. Once he gets around for several levels it comes to whether he knows about some gear or not.

I'll be taking different load outs each time and not hand carry everything everywhere I go. The beefy starting equipment is known to the GM, and not a "no no"... I'm coming into a game already running and it is assumed I've acquired this stuff over time

[Svartalf]

You , sir, are uncommonly well travelled and highly moneyed and you have an extremely tolerant GM.

[Blue_Lion]

NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people.

The Wilks laser sword (chuckles) Does 5D6 damage and would take up alot less room in your kit than a broad sword if you're jumping into an area.

I concur that you'll want something that works on universal Eclips. If you want something that packs a punch for a pistol I'd look at the NG Particle beam pistol
NG-PB713 PBeam: 5D6 Crit does 50% more on nat 19 or 20 Payload: 16

The rest. Well that's alot to carry. You've got a broad sword, a massive club, three full size rifles, a pistol. Now you might not be jumping with all of that but you're a dwarf too, it's going to be pretty absurd if you tried.

Last time I checked in RUE athough it is banned by CS it is not on the Kill on sight list.

If you are so worried about the CS you do not take anything they dislike that rules out 90% of the races and at least 40% of the classes. Can the CS be a pain yes are the some uber always present threat that should stop people from playing what they want.

My recommendation is the Wilk's 347 laser riffle as your main weapon. Its burst packs as much power as a heavy weapon with a weight of 6 pounds allot easer on the landing.
Side arm I would recommend the NG grenade pistol in the main book.
To me dwarfs are more about axes and maces so I would say a Nero-mace and or vibro axe for melee over a sword.

Armor make sure it is EBA but that can be personal choice. The original Crusader body armor from the Rifts RPG was an awesome armor for those who did not want to go heavy. 55MD on EBA chain mail with no prowl penalty. It got over written for some reason in SoT with a heavy plate and that is the one that is in RUE.

The NG survival kit from Rifts Mercenaries is also really good item if you can get it.

[Blue_Lion]

So I recently rolled up a Paratrooper OCC (and dwarven race from CB1).

I'm following the OCC template for starting equipment... 1 Weapon per W.P. Skill etc, and have 7,000 credits + 4,000 Black Market values item to spend on some initial equipment.
As opposed to being a tank or ninja I'm taking other skills to make a jack-of-all-trades spec ops merc. ...demolitions, find contraband, prowl, underwater demo, etc

Can I get some recommended weapons or equipment to get? So many books to pour through...

Here's what I'm looking at taking, but want to consult the 'megaverse' before finalizing:
-Hercules Club, 3D6 SDC, wood & silver.
-Mage Fire Skorblade Broad Sword, 2D6 MD, +1 to strike and parry.
-NE-4 Plasma Cartridge Pistol, 1D4x10 MD, range 500ft, payload 10, Ammo: 6 plasma cartridge magazines. Wilk's "Aimer" Gun-Sight, +1 to strike and initiative on aimed shot.
-M-160 Assault Rifle, single 3D6 MD/3 round burst 1D6x10 MD, range 2000ft, payload 30, Ammo: 6 E-clips.
-ATL-7 Anti-Tank Laser Rifle, 3d6x10+20 MD, range 3000ft, payload 1, Ammo: 6 E-clips.
-M-20 Assault Rifle, single AP round 1D4x10 SDC/8 round burst 3 MD 2000ft, GL plasma 4D6 MD 6ft area 1200ft, laser targeting +2 to strike up to 1200ft, payload 4 grenades / 64 round magazine. Ammo: 6 plasma grenades / 6 AP magazines / 4 Silver bullet magazines (4D6 SDC single)

Set of Fatigues, 1 set of personal clothing, IDF Commando Wristwatch, Binoculars, IRMSS Medical Kit, Language Translator, Utility Belt, Battle Harness, Free Fall Parachute, Backpack, Nylon rope (300ft), Grappling Hook & Nylon rope (300ft), Tinted goggles, Gas Mask, Canteen, Compass (+10% Land Navigation), Handcuffs, Disposable cigarette lighter, Bedroll, 10 MRE's, Flashlight, Survival Kit, Hand Radio, Camouflage Ghillie Suit (+5% prowl and +10% blend), S.C.U.B.A gear, Wet Suit, small stash of personal cigars in an airtight container, 6 Flares, 2 Smoke grenades, 2 Frag Grenades 2D6 MD for 20ft, 2 Triax Fusion Blocks 2D6x10 MD 10ft area w/ keypad timer.

How are you carrying it all without an exoskeleton? Is it all on you for every mission, or are you planning different load outs depending on mission? Where are you holding each item? Keep in mind that unless you are breaking the ATL-7 down for transport, if that is feasible, it is very long and your dwarf is short. The spread of items from three continents and two plus dimensions is a bit much for a starting character. Once he gets around for several levels it comes to whether he knows about some gear or not.

I'll be taking different load outs each time and not hand carry everything everywhere I go. The beefy starting equipment is known to the GM, and not a "no no"... I'm coming into a game already running and it is assumed I've acquired this stuff over time

Other than the weapons, cigars, scuba suit gear and guillie suit that is mostly stuff that current paratroops jump with or the rifts equivalent there of. The wet suit is some time used by SF/navy seals doing halo into water landings. But with EBA it seams redundant. Typically only scouts or snipers use the camouflage Guillie suit. So it does not seam all that extreme to me.

[Pepsi Jedi]

NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people.

The Wilks laser sword (chuckles) Does 5D6 damage and would take up alot less room in your kit than a broad sword if you're jumping into an area.

I concur that you'll want something that works on universal Eclips. If you want something that packs a punch for a pistol I'd look at the NG Particle beam pistol
NG-PB713 PBeam: 5D6 Crit does 50% more on nat 19 or 20 Payload: 16

The rest. Well that's alot to carry. You've got a broad sword, a massive club, three full size rifles, a pistol. Now you might not be jumping with all of that but you're a dwarf too, it's going to be pretty absurd if you tried.

Last time I checked in RUE athough it is banned by CS it is not on the Kill on sight list.

As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment. NG helped to rile them up about the 'Dangerous Alien Invaders and Arm Dealers'. Being in possession of NE weapons is seen as that big a thing.

Heck even Wilks weapons are no longer legal in the CS, though those will just get taken and you might get a beating. (Unless you resist, then you'll get killed)

If you are so worried about the CS you do not take anything they dislike that rules out 90% of the races and at least 40% of the classes. Can the CS be a pain yes are the some uber always present threat that should stop people from playing what they want.

If you're in NA, they're a big thing. Are they always present? no. Could they be present at any point, randomly, anywhere in NA? Yeah. You never know when you'll run into them. The 'domain of man' is their claimed territory. They also explore and send units 1000s of miles out side their territory.

They can be hard on Dbees, depending on the situation and the CS you run into, but they don't have kill orders on all the Dbees and what not.
If I have the choice to buy a gun, that will get me mowed down by a nation with armies of at least 3 million troops, or a gun that won't. I'mma choose the one that won't.

[flatline]

They can be hard on Dbees, depending on the situation and the CS you run into, but they don't have kill orders on all the Dbees and what not.
If I have the choice to buy a gun, that will get me mowed down by a nation with armies of at least 3 million troops, or a gun that won't. I'mma choose the one that won't.

Alternatively, having such a weapon absolves you of any ethical quandaries about wiping out CS forces whenever the opportunity presents itself. After all, they'd kill you if they had the chance so it's only fair that you do the same to them.

--flatline

[Pepsi Jedi]

They can be hard on Dbees, depending on the situation and the CS you run into, but they don't have kill orders on all the Dbees and what not.
If I have the choice to buy a gun, that will get me mowed down by a nation with armies of at least 3 million troops, or a gun that won't. I'mma choose the one that won't.

Alternatively, having such a weapon absolves you of any ethical quandaries about wiping out CS forces whenever the opportunity presents itself. After all, they'd kill you if they had the chance so it's only fair that you do the same to them.

--flatline

No. Afraid not. Entrapment doesn't absolve you of moral restrictions.

[flatline]

They can be hard on Dbees, depending on the situation and the CS you run into, but they don't have kill orders on all the Dbees and what not.
If I have the choice to buy a gun, that will get me mowed down by a nation with armies of at least 3 million troops, or a gun that won't. I'mma choose the one that won't.

Alternatively, having such a weapon absolves you of any ethical quandaries about wiping out CS forces whenever the opportunity presents itself. After all, they'd kill you if they had the chance so it's only fair that you do the same to them.

--flatline

No. Afraid not. Entrapment doesn't absolve you of moral restrictions.

You're confused about what Entrapment is. Entrapment is when law enforcement causes someone to commit a crime that they would not have likely committed otherwise.

This scenario is more analogous to a field with a rabid dog in it. You know that if you cross the field you will be attacked by the rabid dog, so instead, you shoot the rabid dog and then cross the field.

--flatline

[Pepsi Jedi]

By that same logic it's fine to shoot cops with an illegal machine gun because you know they'll arrest you and throw you in jail for having it. I mean. hey, they'll throw you in jail and deprive you of your freedom. If you aim your gun at them they'll kill you. So better just kill them first.

No. You're just trying to justify the murders many people play in their games. (I.E. Using the CS as faceless loot pinyata's and trying to justify killing people to loot um. Not an uncommon thing in rpgs, but doesn't make it morally right.)

[flatline]

By that same logic it's fine to shoot cops with an illegal machine gun because you know they'll arrest you and throw you in jail for having it. I mean. hey, they'll throw you in jail and deprive you of your freedom. If you aim your gun at them they'll kill you. So better just kill them first.

No. You're just trying to justify the murders many people play in their games. (I.E. Using the CS as faceless loot pinyata's and trying to justify killing people to loot um. Not an uncommon thing in rpgs, but doesn't make it morally right.)

You're trying to frame the scenario in such a way that CS forces are law enforcement and that I'm breaking the law by carrying my weapon. Unless I'm deep within CS territory, it is more accurate to say that they are invaders who have orders to kill me because of the perfectly legitimate equipment that I carry.

I almost said "perfectly legal equipment", but in a lawless land, "legal" and "illegal" are meaningless.

But I still think the best analogy for CS forces outside of CS territory is that they are rabid dogs or fire ants who should be put down because they are a danger to everybody. No different than discovering a Spugorth Slaver in the area.

--flatline

[Dog_O_War]

They can be hard on Dbees, depending on the situation and the CS you run into, but they don't have kill orders on all the Dbees and what not.

This is conjecture; this is not a factual statement.

NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people.

This is an odd statement; if you're using it, you're likely in combat - if you're in combat and not using it, that can get you killed too.

While I get what you wanted to say with the statement directly above, everyone knows this already. You saying it is like saying "don't look down the barrel of a gun".

[Pepsi Jedi]

They can be hard on Dbees, depending on the situation and the CS you run into, but they don't have kill orders on all the Dbees and what not.

This is conjecture; this is not a factual statement.

Oh? can you disprove it?

NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people.

This is an odd statement; if you're using it, you're likely in combat - if you're in combat and not using it, that can get you killed too.

While I get what you wanted to say with the statement directly above, everyone knows this already. You saying it is like saying "don't look down the barrel of a gun".

Clearly everyone didn't know it already. I had to point it out to at least one above whom hadn't heard it.
Yes this is the internet, I was not triple checking a conversational post for exacting and specific grammar and word use.

If you'd like

"NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught -possessing- it, by the wrong people"



Hope that helps.

[Dog_O_War]

They can be hard on Dbees, depending on the situation and the CS you run into, but they don't have kill orders on all the Dbees and what not.

This is conjecture; this is not a factual statement.

Oh? can you disprove it?

I don't need to; I never made the statement - you did.

Book and page number where it says "they don't have kill orders on all the Dbees and what not".

NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people.

This is an odd statement; if you're using it, you're likely in combat - if you're in combat and not using it, that can get you killed too.

While I get what you wanted to say with the statement directly above, everyone knows this already. You saying it is like saying "don't look down the barrel of a gun".

Clearly everyone didn't know it already. I had to point it out to at least one above whom hadn't heard it.

Actually, if you had thoroughly read your source material, which you quoted to Blue Lion, there are situations where the CS will not "kill on sight" you for possessing Naruni Equipment.

For instance, there are CS operatives within Merctown, a place that openly sells Naruni equipment. Amazingly the CS isn't marching an army down there right now to kill everyone spotted with Naruni equipment.

So either these are literally the worst operatives in the world because they somehow haven't seen people with Naruni equipment, or this whole "kill on sight" thing is very situational.
That is, just because a CS guy sees someone with a Naruni weapon, does not mean he's programmed to automatically bust out his piece and start firing.
All that means is that if you're in CS territory and the CS is in a position to attack you, they will. Coincidentally, that's pretty true for any malign entity or group.

[Pepsi Jedi]

They can be hard on Dbees, depending on the situation and the CS you run into, but they don't have kill orders on all the Dbees and what not.

This is conjecture; this is not a factual statement.

Oh? can you disprove it?

I don't need to; I never made the statement - you did.

I don't need to prove it. You're trying to nitpick. I made a statement. You said it was conjecture. Prove my statement wrong.

Book and page number where it says "they don't have kill orders on all the Dbees and what not".

NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people.

This is an odd statement; if you're using it, you're likely in combat - if you're in combat and not using it, that can get you killed too.

While I get what you wanted to say with the statement directly above, everyone knows this already. You saying it is like saying "don't look down the barrel of a gun".

Clearly everyone didn't know it already. I had to point it out to at least one above whom hadn't heard it.

Actually, if you had thoroughly read your source material, which you quoted to Blue Lion, there are situations where the CS will not "kill on sight" you for possessing Naruni Equipment.

For instance, there are CS operatives within Merctown, a place that openly sells Naruni equipment. Amazingly the CS isn't marching an army down there right now to kill everyone spotted with Naruni equipment.

Ohhhh you mean the 10 or so guys there --undercover-- aren't blowing their cover? Noooo You don't say? lol. Of course the undercover operatives aren't blowing their cover to try and carry out the policy. They have orders to.. you know.. gather information and be under cover. Their orders superceed the standard policy as they're on special covert asignment.

So either these are literally the worst operatives in the world because they somehow haven't seen people with Naruni equipment, or this whole "kill on sight" thing is very situational.

No. Not very situational. Being undercover trumps a standing general order. You know the undercover guys aren't adhering to the Dress code of the CS military either. You're attempting to use special circumstance to try and nitpick. It's silly. Of course undercover operatives in hostile territory don't hold to general blanket orders that would blow their cover. They've orders to be.. undercover. Their orders are to gather information. Not directly engage all threats. You can bet they'll take notes on people/units stocking up on NE gear and pass it up the chain of command, so when CS Regular forces run into them, that vaporization occurs.

That is, just because a CS guy sees someone with a Naruni weapon, does not mean he's programmed to automatically bust out his piece and start firing.
All that means is that if you're in CS territory and the CS is in a position to attack you, they will. Coincidentally, that's pretty true for any malign entity or group.

No. You're trying to use covert ops to trump standing orders in general. Their orders to be undercover superseded the standing KOS order for those possessing NE Equipment.

Read Naruni Wave Two, pages 6 and 7. It's very clear.

"The sudden, violent campaign caught agents of the Naruni by surprise. It's trading posts were sabotaged and destroyed, it's sales reps slaughtered by CS Forces, and thousands of NE clients/purchasers were summarily executed for even possessing Naruni technology. (Their italics, not mine)

Aprox 254 agents of Naruni Enterprises were 'brought to justice' in the fall of 105PA, it mattered not to the Coalition that there were only 32 actual Naruni sales reps working on the continent. The rest were poor slobs that owned Naruni weapons and equipment (or other Alien looking technology)

...

To this day, Naruni weapons and equipment are outlawed in and around the CS(Even non combat items) Those caught by the CS carrying NE gear are gunned down where they stand -- all in the name of national security. Things have been especially hot since the fall of Tolkeen and the return of Naruni Enterprises. Characters who dare to use Naruni Enterprises weapons, vehicles, armor or equipment should do so with extreme caution, for the CS Regard them as dangerous subversives and enemies of humankind for embracing alien technology. It also gives the CS Carte blanche to gun down any dissident, crook or suspect causing NE Gear."


If you open the book you'll see it's not fluffy sort of what ifs

Those are direct quotes.

"To this day, Naruni weapons and equipment are outlawed in and around the CS(Even non combat items) Those caught by the CS carrying NE gear are gunned down where they stand -- all in the name of national security."

Next?

[Dog_O_War]

Oh? can you disprove it?

I don't need to; I never made the statement - you did.

I don't need to prove it. You're trying to nitpick. I made a statement. You said it was conjecture. Prove my statement wrong.

Sure.

I can't find that reference in any book anywhere. Your statement is proven to be conjecture

Book and page number where it says "they don't have kill orders on all the Dbees and what not".

Actually, if you had thoroughly read your source material, which you quoted to Blue Lion, there are situations where the CS will not "kill on sight" you for possessing Naruni Equipment.

For instance, there are CS operatives within Merctown, a place that openly sells Naruni equipment. Amazingly the CS isn't marching an army down there right now to kill everyone spotted with Naruni equipment.

Ohhhh you mean the 10 or so guys there --undercover-- aren't blowing their cover? Noooo You don't say? lol. Of course the undercover operatives aren't blowing their cover to try and carry out the policy. They have orders to.. you know.. gather information and be under cover. Their orders superceed the standard policy as they're on special covert asignment.

So what you're saying is that "kill on sight" isn't exactly "kill on sight" as you otherwise implied it as being

The thing is, I already knew this. And I knew you'd say this in response to me; my actual point was that you originally made a blanket statement that was patently false to begin with, yet you were making it sound like "oh, they'll get you no matter WHERE you are, so you'd better NOT take their stuff, despite being an armed dee bee whom the CS attacks on sight already".

So either these are literally the worst operatives in the world because they somehow haven't seen people with Naruni equipment, or this whole "kill on sight" thing is very situational.

No. Not very situational. Being undercover trumps a standing general order. You know the undercover guys aren't adhering to the Dress code of the CS military either. You're attempting to use special circumstance to try and nitpick.

Yeah, "special circumstance".

Tell me, how big is CS territory?

Does it cover the majority of the planet?

Or does it cover a much smaller area?

Does it even take up 25% of North America?

Is it a "special circumstance" when the aforementioned faction isn't even in control of 25% of the territory they're based in? Because to me, when you're only "killed on sight" within the purview of less than a quarter of one continent, that is the "special circumstance" and otherwise not being persecuted for your equipment everywhere else is the norm.

It's silly.

Someone's opinion certainly is.

That is, just because a CS guy sees someone with a Naruni weapon, does not mean he's programmed to automatically bust out his piece and start firing.
All that means is that if you're in CS territory and the CS is in a position to attack you, they will. Coincidentally, that's pretty true for any malign entity or group.

No. You're trying to use covert ops to trump standing orders in general. Their orders to be undercover superseded the standing KOS order for those possessing NE Equipment.

Actually, I wasn't. I was pointing out that even if a CS guy sees you, you're not "killed on sight" as you claimed people otherwise were.

Read Naruni Wave Two, pages 6 and 7. It's very clear.

Yeah it is. If you're in CS territory and they happen to see you've got Naruni weaponry, and they have a reasonable assault force backing them, then they'll attack you with maximum persecution.

"The sudden, violent campaign caught agents of the Naruni by surprise. It's trading posts were sabotaged and destroyed, it's sales reps slaughtered by CS Forces, and thousands of NE clients/purchasers were summarily executed for even possessing Naruni technology. (Their italics, not mine)

Aprox 254 agents of Naruni Enterprises were 'brought to justice' in the fall of 105PA, it mattered not to the Coalition that there were only 32 actual Naruni sales reps working on the continent. The rest were poor slobs that owned Naruni weapons and equipment (or other Alien looking technology)

Right here you've quoted the book as making a statement that they performed an active campaign against those in possession of Naruni technology.
That would reinforce the fact that they are not ready to deal with groups of armed mercs with said technology when the odds are against them, or even outside their domain.

"To this day, Naruni weapons and equipment are outlawed in and around the CS(Even non combat items) Those caught by the CS carrying NE gear are gunned down where they stand -- all in the name of national security."

Next?

"outlawed in and around the CS"
Tell me, since when did an empire that takes up less than 25% of North America become the rule for the globe, and not the special circumstance?


EDIT: words

[Razzinold]

By that same logic it's fine to shoot cops with an illegal machine gun because you know they'll arrest you and throw you in jail for having it. I mean. hey, they'll throw you in jail and deprive you of your freedom. If you aim your gun at them they'll kill you. So better just kill them first.

No. You're just trying to justify the murders many people play in their games. (I.E. Using the CS as faceless loot pinyata's and trying to justify killing people to loot um. Not an uncommon thing in rpgs, but doesn't make it morally right.)

I have to disagree with your analogy used here.

Police are universally accepted as a governing force to execute laws that have been voted on.

The CS are a free standing army to enforce their will over every living human in North America, when they have not been recognized by majority as a governing body.

The part you said about the machine gun and the police is true, you can't preemptively murder law enforcement agents because you don't want to follow the law, but you can't apply that to the discussion about the CS.

I'm not saying that you are wrong when you say that the CS will kill you for using what they consider banned technology but I would have no problem gunning down a CS soldier if he was trying to gun me down simply because he doesn't approve of the firearm I am carrying. I do not recognize his authority therefore it does not apply to me.

I know an argument could be made saying people don't want to listen to the government's laws so they can choose not to follow them and are now free to gun down cops with machine guns. This would not be the case though. Our laws are written in such a way it basically says "you follow these laws whether you like them or not or their is the door, or until such time those laws are legally changed".

The same scenario cannot be applied to the game. There is no Constitution, there is no United States of America therefore there is nobody alive that can institute rules for everyone to follow.
If you choose to follow CS rules than you live in a CS state, you live in Kingsdale then you've made the choice to follow their rules.

If I live in a town that has no rules I don't have to follow CS rules simply because that town happens to be in North America.

[Razzinold]

/quote]


As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment. NG helped to rile them up about the 'Dangerous Alien Invaders and Arm Dealers'. Being in possession of NE weapons is seen as that big a thing.

Heck even Wilks weapons are no longer legal in the CS, though those will just get taken and you might get a beating. (Unless you resist, then you'll get killed)

If you're in NA, they're a big thing. Are they always present? no. Could they be present at any point, randomly, anywhere in NA? Yeah. You never know when you'll run into them. The 'domain of man' is their claimed territory. They also explore and send units 1000s of miles out side their territory.

They can be hard on Dbees, depending on the situation and the CS you run into, but they don't have kill orders on all the Dbees and what not.
If I have the choice to buy a gun, that will get me mowed down by a nation with armies of at least 3 million troops, or a gun that won't. I'mma choose the one that won't.

I'm not saying you are wrong on this, I'm just saying that it's dumb.

Why didn't Palladium stop all production at R:UE, Coalition War Campaign and NG 1 & 2 ?
If the meta plot has the CS murdering people for using other types of equipment then why bother taking the time to write it up in the first place ?

The over indulgence towards the CS needs to end. It is beyond ridiculous.
I don't care how big they are, and let's not even get started on their numbers and how they support it and all that stuff, but I have a hard time believing that they are this all knowing all seeing boogey man that shows up everywhere.
What is this obsession with the CS being the most powerful thing in NA ?

In a game that puts so much emphasis on the "return of magic" and "demonic creatures from other worlds" coming from the Rifts, why is it that a bunch of Nazi wannabes managed to saturated the entire landscape game play wise and be the Big Bad Guys of the world ?

I like when my GM ran his games, it didn't matter what you were carrying, I've gone entire campaigns without running into the CS.

[flatline]

Some people will probably want Naruni gear simply because it IS banned by the CS. It's a way to show they they don't care what the CS thinks.

Magic users and supernatural critters already expect the worst from the CS, so since they already expect to have problems with the CS should they meet them, there's no new downside to having Naruni gear.

--flatline

[taalismn]

I see it like this; the CS has a rep beyond their actual numbers, so even in areas where they aren't the LAW, there will be communities and vigilante groups who will take the CS's word AS law, especially if they're human-supremacist, or just looking to be on the good side of the major power in North America.
Number of factors contributing to the rep:
*The CS has Dog Boys, psi-stalkers, and who knows what else...they can look into your mind, I tell you! And they'll kill you in your sleep or with a sniper shot or a missile from nowhere if you talk, even THINK, bad thoughts about them!
*The CS has spies and informers outside their borders, looking to see who's saying what, who's doing what, and who's buying what...you don't want to be on a CS intelligence file, do you?
*The CS likes to do drop-spot visits to show their flag and show they are THE law of the land. You don't wanna be brandishing that proscribed weaponry out in the open if a CS SAMAS squad suddenly drops in to say 'hi', do you?

Of course, the truth of the above varies from place to place, and in most of North America you can likely flash your fancy new Naruni plasma pistol without courting instant death, but in more than a few places showing off your Naruni shooting irons is going to be accompanied by a nervous titter from your audience at your conscious risk-taking.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Ahh watch how the goal posts move.

Oh? can you disprove it?

I don't need to; I never made the statement - you did.

I don't need to prove it. You're trying to nitpick. I made a statement. You said it was conjecture. Prove my statement wrong.

Sure.

I can't find that reference in any book anywhere. Your statement is proven to be conjecture

No. Your failure to find any proof that says other wise, means my statement stands. Good luck. You're trying to prove a negative.

Book and page number where it says "they don't have kill orders on all the Dbees and what not".

Actually, if you had thoroughly read your source material, which you quoted to Blue Lion, there are situations where the CS will not "kill on sight" you for possessing Naruni Equipment.

For instance, there are CS operatives within Merctown, a place that openly sells Naruni equipment. Amazingly the CS isn't marching an army down there right now to kill everyone spotted with Naruni equipment.

Ohhhh you mean the 10 or so guys there --undercover-- aren't blowing their cover? Noooo You don't say? lol. Of course the undercover operatives aren't blowing their cover to try and carry out the policy. They have orders to.. you know.. gather information and be under cover. Their orders superceed the standard policy as they're on special covert asignment.

So what you're saying is that "kill on sight" isn't exactly "kill on sight" as you otherwise implied it as being

The standard order is. As has been proven by quoting the book to you. You're trying to nit pick and use exceptions. Covert operations are by their nature out side the standard orders of the army. They are not beholden to standing orders in the same way, because by their nature they're covert operations. You've proven nothing, other than yes CS have covert ops, which was not in question.

The thing is, I already knew this. And I knew you'd say this in response to me; my actual point was that you originally made a blanket statement that was patently false to begin with, yet you were making it sound like "oh, they'll get you no matter WHERE you are, so you'd better NOT take their stuff, despite being an armed dee bee whom the CS attacks on sight already".

No. that's not what I said. You are trying to attribute things to me that I didn't say, and you're trying to move the goal post. If you simply file up you'll see what I said, and the statement holds true.

What I said was "NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people." Which is true. If you're caught using it by the CS, it CAN get you killed on sight. Everything in that statement is true.

The following up clarification is also true.

"NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught -possessing- it, by the wrong people"

Which is also true.

Neither of those statements are false. NE Equipment can also get you killed on sight, if you're caught using (or possessing) it by the wrong people. Both are true. You're the one trying to limit it. Not me. The statements hold true. If you're caught by CS forces, possessing or using NE equipment can get you killed on sight.

So either these are literally the worst operatives in the world because they somehow haven't seen people with Naruni equipment, or this whole "kill on sight" thing is very situational.

No. Not very situational. Being undercover trumps a standing general order. You know the undercover guys aren't adhering to the Dress code of the CS military either. You're attempting to use special circumstance to try and nitpick.

Yeah, "special circumstance".

Tell me, how big is CS territory?

About a third of NA, but the size of the territory doesn't change the fact that the statement remains true.

Does it cover the majority of the planet?

Still doesn't matter the statement holds true.

Or does it cover a much smaller area?

Does it even take up 25% of North America?

Is it a "special circumstance" when the aforementioned faction isn't even in control of 25% of the territory they're based in? Because to me, when you're only "killed on sight" within the purview of less than a quarter of one continent, that is the "special circumstance" and otherwise not being persecuted for your equipment everywhere else is the norm.

Or if we're talking about just in NA on earth and not the universe.. or the megaverse!!!11!!! lol

It's kill on sight when you run into the CS (or perhaps NG) The statement still holds true. Possessing NE equipment can get you killed if you're caught possessing or using it by the wrong people. I didn't make any claim that the people were megaversal.

The CS are one of the major powers on Rifts earth. They are the biggest power in the most used setting. They're also the most detailed of the powers on Rifts earth and appear the most. That makes them more than just a random occurance.

It's silly.

Someone's opinion certainly is.

That is, just because a CS guy sees someone with a Naruni weapon, does not mean he's programmed to automatically bust out his piece and start firing.
All that means is that if you're in CS territory and the CS is in a position to attack you, they will. Coincidentally, that's pretty true for any malign entity or group.

No. You're trying to use covert ops to trump standing orders in general. Their orders to be undercover superseded the standing KOS order for those possessing NE Equipment.

Actually, I wasn't. I was pointing out that even if a CS guy sees you, you're not "killed on sight" as you claimed people otherwise were.

Covert operations are out side the standard order of battle. They follow different orders. Being a covert CS troop still doesn't challenge my original statement.

Read Naruni Wave Two, pages 6 and 7. It's very clear.

Yeah it is. If you're in CS territory and they happen to see you've got Naruni weaponry, and they have a reasonable assault force backing them, then they'll attack you with maximum persecution.

No That's not what it says at all. It says that to this day it's outlawed in and around cs turf, those caught are gunned down where they stand. Your stipulations are not present. The CS also has exploritory forces far out side their terrritory and still hold to their orders. You're trying to add, additional stipulations onto a point to try and make a point that was never claimed. Still, what you've attempted to add, isn't present in the book.

"The sudden, violent campaign caught agents of the Naruni by surprise. It's trading posts were sabotaged and destroyed, it's sales reps slaughtered by CS Forces, and thousands of NE clients/purchasers were summarily executed for even possessing Naruni technology. (Their italics, not mine)

Aprox 254 agents of Naruni Enterprises were 'brought to justice' in the fall of 105PA, it mattered not to the Coalition that there were only 32 actual Naruni sales reps working on the continent. The rest were poor slobs that owned Naruni weapons and equipment (or other Alien looking technology)

Right here you've quoted the book as making a statement that they performed an active campaign against those in possession of Naruni technology.
That would reinforce the fact that they are not ready to deal with groups of armed mercs with said technology when the odds are against them, or even outside their domain.

It doesn't say or imply that at all. It says they've engaged in a 'sudden violent campaign" slaughtering them and even non sales persons caught in possession of NE tech. It says no where that they are not ready to deal with groups of armed mercs. lol. The CS has armies numbering into the millions. They can deal with any mercs they choose to. They might need to call in bigger units but they can. Still that's irreverent, as NOTHING There even remotely indicates what you're trying to claim.

"To this day, Naruni weapons and equipment are outlawed in and around the CS(Even non combat items) Those caught by the CS carrying NE gear are gunned down where they stand -- all in the name of national security."

Next?

"outlawed in and around the CS"
Tell me, since when did an empire that takes up less than 25% of North America become the rule for the globe, and not the special circumstance?

I never claimed it was. That's some sort of stipulation you're trying to add on there, and then disprove. lol My claim was that if you were caught using or possessing it by the wrong people it could get you killed on sight.

I've proven my point. If you're caught possessing or using it by the wrong people (The CS) You can get killed on sight. Nothing you've said at any point invalidates that. It's true. I've shown you the quote from the book that proves it true.

You're the one attempting to add on other stipulations and limitations.

[flatline]

Back on the original topic, if your GM is allowing somewhat exotic equipment, the Kitanni knock-off of the Wilk's pulse laser rifle (K-4?) is nice.

--flatline

[drewkitty ~..~]

Unless the char has a vehicle, then the char has too many weapons to carry effectively.
Reducing the longarms to two and (agreeing with someone) ditch the Naruni cartridge weapon (maybe replace it with the wilks plasma weapons & get SD ammo that fits the pistol.) as my suggestions.

BTW you might want to watch the latest Mythbusters episode. The ideas they were testing has to do encumbrance issues.

[Pepsi Jedi]

He has stated at one point that he's not carrying it all at once, but this is a base list to pick and chose from for different loadouts.

That said one should also factor in "Dwarf" means he's pretty burly for his size, but also 'Dwarf" in that he's smaller and those weapons don't scale. As Drewkitty mentions, Encumbrance is an issue.

[Dog_O_War]

Ahh watch how the goal posts move.

No. Your failure to find any proof that says other wise, means my statement stands. Good luck. You're trying to prove a negative.

I'm not proving a negative here; I'm saying I've gone through every single line of every book ever printed and am stating emphatically that what you claim has never been printed in a Palladium book.

Or rather, you made up your claim, which makes it conjecture, because what you're saying isn't in a printed book. That's not "proving a negative" that's direct proof that the book doesn't say what you claim to begin with, period.

Or if you'd prefer an equivalent example, the book states that (and I quote) "Pepsi Jedi is wrong in all claims about rules knowledge in any and every instance".

Good luck finding proof that the book "says otherwise"

"watch how the goal posts move"

So what you're saying is that "kill on sight" isn't exactly "kill on sight" as you otherwise implied it as being

The standard order is. As has been proven by quoting the book to you. You're trying to nit pick and use exceptions. Covert operations are by their nature out side the standard orders of the army. They are not beholden to standing orders in the same way, because by their nature they're covert operations. You've proven nothing, other than yes CS have covert ops, which was not in question.

"nit pick and use exceptions".
I already stated what I said was a verbal trap; what you made was a blanket statement that implied that this "kill on sight" order was going to affect players anywhere and everywhere. I used an exception because I wanted to point out that while there are exceptions, a singular empire that does not even cover a quarter of the continent cannot enforce said rule outside of its domain.

For instance, the area in-question where they have operatives who are specifically ordered to not follow this directive (Merctown) is such an area.
In fact, I can name more areas that do not have the CS killing people on-sight for possessing Naruni equipment than I can where they do. This makes your statement false.

The thing is, I already knew this. And I knew you'd say this in response to me; my actual point was that you originally made a blanket statement that was patently false to begin with, yet you were making it sound like "oh, they'll get you no matter WHERE you are, so you'd better NOT take their stuff, despite being an armed dee bee whom the CS attacks on sight already".

No. that's not what I said.

As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment.

They "will" eh?

Seems to me that there are quite a few exceptions. Ones you've readily admitted to.

And caveats too.

Like, "only in and around CS territory". That's a pretty big one.

So is, "CS troops are not suicidal and will not attack a superior force".

You are trying to attribute things to me that I didn't say,

As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment.

and you're trying to move the goal post. If you simply file up you'll see what I said, and the statement holds true.

NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people.

As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment.

Okay, so I've filed up and this is what I see; you go from "can get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people" to "the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment".

In two posts you went from, "it's kinda dangerous to use Naruni equipment" to "the CS will kill you if you're caught even having Naruni equipment".

You never offered a single caveat, or even addressed the fact that he's an armed Dee Bee.

What I said was "NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people."

NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people.

As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment.

No you didn't; I've quoted what you said right below.

Which is true.

Which you did not originally say.

If you're caught using it by the CS, it CAN get you killed on sight. Everything in that statement is true.

And yet previously, this is not what you said.

The following up clarification is also true.

"NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught -possessing- it, by the wrong people"

Which is also true.

So now several posts later after I challenged your statement you're offering a clarification?

Neither of those statements are false.

And amazingly, those are also not the statements I was calling you out on.

NE Equipment can also get you killed on sight, if you're caught using (or possessing) it by the wrong people. Both are true. You're the one trying to limit it. Not me.

I'm not trying to limit it - I'm pointing out that it is limited.

The statements hold true. If you're caught by CS forces, possessing or using NE equipment can get you killed on sight.

This statement also differs from your previous one. Here, I'll quote what you originally said;

As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment.

Do you know the difference between 'can' and 'will'? Or have you been using them interchangeably your whole life?

So either these are literally the worst operatives in the world because they somehow haven't seen people with Naruni equipment, or this whole "kill on sight" thing is very situational.

No. Not very situational. Being undercover trumps a standing general order. You know the undercover guys aren't adhering to the Dress code of the CS military either. You're attempting to use special circumstance to try and nitpick.

Yeah, "special circumstance".

Tell me, how big is CS territory?

About a third of NA, but the size of the territory doesn't change the fact that the statement remains true.

"About a third"
CS Territory takes up less than a third of the united states, let alone North America. You do know that both Mexico and Canada are included in North America, don't you?

Even if the CS were to take up a solid half of the United states, they would still occupy less than one quarter of North America.

I'm pointing this out not because I believe you're bad at geography, but because you're clearly not detail-oriented, or even concerned; that you're sloppy in providing facts and perceiving them. That to you the CS takes up "about a third of NA", when the truth is far different, just as your claim that "the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment" is also skewed by your perception.

It's kill on sight when you run into the CS (or perhaps NG) The statement still holds true.

Really? Because within this very same post you've also claimed that;

If you're caught using it by the CS, it CAN get you killed on sight

In one portion of your post, you're claiming that it "can" get you killed.

And now you're claiming that "It's kill on sight when you run into the CS (or perhaps NG)"

So to go over this, when I run into the CS or perhaps NG, "it's kill on sight". That's an emphatic statement, "when I run into them, It's kill on sight" and yet you just claimed earlier in your post that not only are there exceptions, that it was only that it 'could' get me killed.

Which is it? "when" or "can"?

Possessing NE equipment can get you killed if you're caught possessing or using it by the wrong people. I didn't make any claim that the people were megaversal.

Nobody said you did. I never quoted you saying this as such; I only commented originally that it was "odd" because of its situational redundancy.

It's only when you mentioned that "the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment" did I raise contention.

Read Naruni Wave Two, pages 6 and 7. It's very clear.

Yeah it is. If you're in CS territory and they happen to see you've got Naruni weaponry, and they have a reasonable assault force backing them, then they'll attack you with maximum persecution.

No That's not what it says at all. It says that to this day it's outlawed in and around cs turf, those caught are gunned down where they stand. Your stipulations are not present.

If you're in CS territory

and they happen to see you've got Naruni weaponry

There's two of them in the very blurb you just quoted me on.

The third one, "and they have a reasonable assault force backing them"; good luck trying to convince anyone that small numbers of CS troops ("a squad" "two SAMAS") versus heavily armed mercs are going to commit suicide by trying to "gun them down where they stand".

In other words, the books assume you're not an idiot, and that the CS are not retarded, and that it's implied that the CS isn't going around attacking people suicidally for possessing a banned item, let alone Naruni equipment.

The CS also has exploritory forces far out side their terrritory and still hold to their orders. You're trying to add, additional stipulations onto a point to try and make a point that was never claimed.

As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment.

"a point that was never claimed".

Still, what you've attempted to add, isn't present in the book.

If you're in CS territory and they happen to see you've got Naruni weaponry, and they have a reasonable assault force backing them, then they'll attack you with maximum persecution.

It says that to this day it's outlawed in and around cs turf, those caught are gunned down where they stand.

That was, you even admitted it was.

Still, what you've attempted to add, isn't present in the book.

Being undercover trumps a standing general order.

Of course undercover operatives in hostile territory don't hold to general blanket orders that would blow their cover.

So I didn't add these; where in all of the books does it state that this is true?

Or is it implied? Like my third stipulation, "and they have a reasonable assault force backing them"?

It doesn't say or imply that at all. It says they've engaged in a 'sudden violent campaign" slaughtering them and even non sales persons caught in possession of NE tech. It says no where that they are not ready to deal with groups of armed mercs. lol."

What it said was that they launched a "sudden violent campaign".
Not that they were retarded or suicidal; there are situations and locations where this statement does not apply.

The CS has armies numbering into the millions. They can deal with any mercs they choose to. They might need to call in bigger units but they can. Still that's irreverent, as NOTHING There even remotely indicates what you're trying to claim.

Read about Larson's Brigade; it disagrees with your statement. Or is this a situation where can != will for you? Because you were using these two words interchangeably before.

Tell me, since when did an empire that takes up less than 25% of North America become the rule for the globe, and not the special circumstance?

I never claimed it was.

As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment.

You don't say where, you don't say when, you only say "the CS will kill you".

And finally later, you've changed your tune and added various stipulations of your own.

That's some sort of stipulation you're trying to add on there, and then disprove.

Being undercover trumps a standing general order.

I didn't claim this, and this stipulation isn't in the books.

lol My claim was that if you were caught using or possessing it by the wrong people it could get you killed on sight.

As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment.

Yeah, so was that second portion you're quoted as saying.

I've proven my point.

No, you've proven A point.

That point is mine, which is that you're offering up conjecture with no proof, refusing to provide said proof, are not detail-oriented enough to even realize that the CS does not even occupy 25% of North America, let alone the third you think it does, that you think you can use 'can' and 'will' interchangeably, and that you believe everyone else must be super accurate in what they say, but when it comes to you, you're special and are allowed to make sweeping generalizations which everyone must accept.

I mean goddamn, Flatline said that it absolves you of moral quandaries when dealing with the CS and having Naruni equipment, to which you claimed that "no, it's entrapment and doesn't absolve you of moral restrictions" without even considering what you claimed; that a powerful force is going to attack and kill you for having Naruni equipment, from the lowliest t-shirt, to their most powerful gun, but morally, you shouldn't shoot back until they attack, because "that's murder".

Well so is attacking someone for possessing an item a nation has banned when they're outside of their jurisdiction, let alone the moral quandary of killing people because they aren't racist like their faction is.

EDIT: changed my last statement - didn't read like it should.

[taalismn]

Warpig, grab your chute and anything else you plan on dropping with and hit the silk! Two mercs just started a firefight in the cabin and I don't think this plane's going to be flying much longer! Save yourself and bail out! This is as close as we're going to get to the drop zone! Jump! Jump! Jump!

[eliakon]

Some people will probably want Naruni gear simply because it IS banned by the CS. It's a way to show they they don't care what the CS thinks.

Magic users and supernatural critters already expect the worst from the CS, so since they already expect to have problems with the CS should they meet them, there's no new downside to having Naruni gear.

--flatline

Hmmm I wonder if that's a Naruni sales pitch "Why settle for lesser gear that can get you killed? If your going to get killed you deserve the best. You deserve Naruni."

[Pepsi Jedi]

Spoiler:

Ahh watch how the goal posts move.

No. Your failure to find any proof that says other wise, means my statement stands. Good luck. You're trying to prove a negative.

I'm not proving a negative here; I'm saying I've gone through every single line of every book ever printed and am stating emphatically that what you claim has never been printed in a Palladium book.

Or rather, you made up your claim, which makes it conjecture, because what you're saying isn't in a printed book. That's not "proving a negative" that's direct proof that the book doesn't say what you claim to begin with, period.

Or if you'd prefer an equivalent example, the book states that (and I quote) "Pepsi Jedi is wrong in all claims about rules knowledge in any and every instance".

Good luck finding proof that the book "says otherwise"

"watch how the goal posts move"

So what you're saying is that "kill on sight" isn't exactly "kill on sight" as you otherwise implied it as being

The standard order is. As has been proven by quoting the book to you. You're trying to nit pick and use exceptions. Covert operations are by their nature out side the standard orders of the army. They are not beholden to standing orders in the same way, because by their nature they're covert operations. You've proven nothing, other than yes CS have covert ops, which was not in question.

"nit pick and use exceptions".
I already stated what I said was a verbal trap; what you made was a blanket statement that implied that this "kill on sight" order was going to affect players anywhere and everywhere. I used an exception because I wanted to point out that while there are exceptions, a singular empire that does not even cover a quarter of the continent cannot enforce said rule outside of its domain.

For instance, the area in-question where they have operatives who are specifically ordered to not follow this directive (Merctown) is such an area.
In fact, I can name more areas that do not have the CS killing people on-sight for possessing Naruni equipment than I can where they do. This makes your statement false.

The thing is, I already knew this. And I knew you'd say this in response to me; my actual point was that you originally made a blanket statement that was patently false to begin with, yet you were making it sound like "oh, they'll get you no matter WHERE you are, so you'd better NOT take their stuff, despite being an armed dee bee whom the CS attacks on sight already".

No. that's not what I said.

As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment.

They "will" eh?

Seems to me that there are quite a few exceptions. Ones you've readily admitted to.

And caveats too.

Like, "only in and around CS territory". That's a pretty big one.

So is, "CS troops are not suicidal and will not attack a superior force".

You are trying to attribute things to me that I didn't say,

As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment.

and you're trying to move the goal post. If you simply file up you'll see what I said, and the statement holds true.

NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people.

As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment.

Okay, so I've filed up and this is what I see; you go from "can get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people" to "the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment".

In two posts you went from, "it's kinda dangerous to use Naruni equipment" to "the CS will kill you if you're caught even having Naruni equipment".

You never offered a single caveat, or even addressed the fact that he's an armed Dee Bee.

What I said was "NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people."

NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught using it by the wrong people.

As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment.

No you didn't; I've quoted what you said right below.

Which is true.

Which you did not originally say.

If you're caught using it by the CS, it CAN get you killed on sight. Everything in that statement is true.

And yet previously, this is not what you said.

The following up clarification is also true.

"NE equipment can also get you killed on sight if you're caught -possessing- it, by the wrong people"

Which is also true.

So now several posts later after I challenged your statement you're offering a clarification?

Neither of those statements are false.

And amazingly, those are also not the statements I was calling you out on.

NE Equipment can also get you killed on sight, if you're caught using (or possessing) it by the wrong people. Both are true. You're the one trying to limit it. Not me.

I'm not trying to limit it - I'm pointing out that it is limited.

The statements hold true. If you're caught by CS forces, possessing or using NE equipment can get you killed on sight.

This statement also differs from your previous one. Here, I'll quote what you originally said;

As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment.

Do you know the difference between 'can' and 'will'? Or have you been using them interchangeably your whole life?

So either these are literally the worst operatives in the world because they somehow haven't seen people with Naruni equipment, or this whole "kill on sight" thing is very situational.

No. Not very situational. Being undercover trumps a standing general order. You know the undercover guys aren't adhering to the Dress code of the CS military either. You're attempting to use special circumstance to try and nitpick.

Yeah, "special circumstance".

Tell me, how big is CS territory?

About a third of NA, but the size of the territory doesn't change the fact that the statement remains true.

"About a third"
CS Territory takes up less than a third of the united states, let alone North America. You do know that both Mexico and Canada are included in North America, don't you?

Even if the CS were to take up a solid half of the United states, they would still occupy less than one quarter of North America.

I'm pointing this out not because I believe you're bad at geography, but because you're clearly not detail-oriented, or even concerned; that you're sloppy in providing facts and perceiving them. That to you the CS takes up "about a third of NA", when the truth is far different, just as your claim that "the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment" is also skewed by your perception.

It's kill on sight when you run into the CS (or perhaps NG) The statement still holds true.

Really? Because within this very same post you've also claimed that;

If you're caught using it by the CS, it CAN get you killed on sight

In one portion of your post, you're claiming that it "can" get you killed.

And now you're claiming that "It's kill on sight when you run into the CS (or perhaps NG)"

So to go over this, when I run into the CS or perhaps NG, "it's kill on sight". That's an emphatic statement, "when I run into them, It's kill on sight" and yet you just claimed earlier in your post that not only are there exceptions, that it was only that it 'could' get me killed.

Which is it? "when" or "can"?

Possessing NE equipment can get you killed if you're caught possessing or using it by the wrong people. I didn't make any claim that the people were megaversal.

Nobody said you did. I never quoted you saying this as such; I only commented originally that it was "odd" because of its situational redundancy.

It's only when you mentioned that "the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment" did I raise contention.

Read Naruni Wave Two, pages 6 and 7. It's very clear.

Yeah it is. If you're in CS territory and they happen to see you've got Naruni weaponry, and they have a reasonable assault force backing them, then they'll attack you with maximum persecution.

No That's not what it says at all. It says that to this day it's outlawed in and around cs turf, those caught are gunned down where they stand. Your stipulations are not present.

If you're in CS territory

and they happen to see you've got Naruni weaponry

There's two of them in the very blurb you just quoted me on.

The third one, "and they have a reasonable assault force backing them"; good luck trying to convince anyone that small numbers of CS troops ("a squad" "two SAMAS") versus heavily armed mercs are going to commit suicide by trying to "gun them down where they stand".

In other words, the books assume you're not an idiot, and that the CS are not retarded, and that it's implied that the CS isn't going around attacking people suicidally for possessing a banned item, let alone Naruni equipment.

The CS also has exploritory forces far out side their terrritory and still hold to their orders. You're trying to add, additional stipulations onto a point to try and make a point that was never claimed.

As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment.

"a point that was never claimed".

Still, what you've attempted to add, isn't present in the book.

If you're in CS territory and they happen to see you've got Naruni weaponry, and they have a reasonable assault force backing them, then they'll attack you with maximum persecution.

It says that to this day it's outlawed in and around cs turf, those caught are gunned down where they stand.

That was, you even admitted it was.

Still, what you've attempted to add, isn't present in the book.

Being undercover trumps a standing general order.

Of course undercover operatives in hostile territory don't hold to general blanket orders that would blow their cover.

So I didn't add these; where in all of the books does it state that this is true?

Or is it implied? Like my third stipulation, "and they have a reasonable assault force backing them"?

It doesn't say or imply that at all. It says they've engaged in a 'sudden violent campaign" slaughtering them and even non sales persons caught in possession of NE tech. It says no where that they are not ready to deal with groups of armed mercs. lol."

What it said was that they launched a "sudden violent campaign".
Not that they were retarded or suicidal; there are situations and locations where this statement does not apply.

The CS has armies numbering into the millions. They can deal with any mercs they choose to. They might need to call in bigger units but they can. Still that's irreverent, as NOTHING There even remotely indicates what you're trying to claim.

Read about Larson's Brigade; it disagrees with your statement. Or is this a situation where can != will for you? Because you were using these two words interchangeably before.

Tell me, since when did an empire that takes up less than 25% of North America become the rule for the globe, and not the special circumstance?

I never claimed it was.

As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment.

You don't say where, you don't say when, you only say "the CS will kill you".

And finally later, you've changed your tune and added various stipulations of your own.

That's some sort of stipulation you're trying to add on there, and then disprove.

Being undercover trumps a standing general order.

I didn't claim this, and this stipulation isn't in the books.

lol My claim was that if you were caught using or possessing it by the wrong people it could get you killed on sight.

As per Naruni Wave Two, the CS will kill you if you are caught with NE equipment.

Yeah, so was that second portion you're quoted as saying.

I've proven my point.

No, you've proven A point.

That point is mine, which is that you're offering up conjecture with no proof, refusing to provide said proof, are not detail-oriented enough to even realize that the CS does not even occupy 25% of North America, let alone the third you think it does, that you think you can use 'can' and 'will' interchangeably, and that you believe everyone else must be super accurate in what they say, but when it comes to you, you're special and are allowed to make sweeping generalizations which everyone must accept.

I mean goddamn, Flatline said that it absolves you of moral quandaries when dealing with the CS and having Naruni equipment, to which you claimed that "no, it's entrapment and doesn't absolve you of moral restrictions" without even considering what you claimed; that a powerful force is going to attack and kill you for having Naruni equipment, from the lowliest t-shirt, to their most powerful gun, but morally, you shouldn't shoot back until they attack, because "that's murder".

Well so is attacking someone for possessing an item a nation has banned when they're outside of their jurisdiction, let alone the moral quandary of killing people because they aren't racist like their faction is.

EDIT: changed my last statement - didn't read like it should.

You've just spent a few hours with formatting and cutting and pasting to prove absolutely nothing. My original statements stands, as does the clarification. Nothing you've posted indicates otherwise. You're trying to nitpick as to 'can' or 'will' but the text from the book is clear. It was quoted to you. if you're caught you're gunned down where you stand.

You trying to quibble as to specific words, only shows that you cant debate the point. My point was made. it was backed up with quotes from the book. You've nothing but pointing out that the CS isn't universal, or global. Which was never claimed. The size of their territory is moot. You trying to debate it is an attempt to obfuscate the fact and distract from the point. I claimed that if you're caught by the wrong people, it can get you killed. It's true, was always thus.

With that. I'm done with you. You can't disprove the point and are only trying to attack grammar on a forum board. Eye roll till they fall out of your head. My point stands and is verified with text from canon sources.