Since the RUE release
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- Hero
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Re: Since the RUE release
Wasn't there supposed to ALSO be a second Japan book eventually?
Really, the reason not to do a '... And Gods' book for RIFTS is that there already IS a book of Gods for RIFTS. The unfortunate part is that the book is a little behind the curve, as it doesn't include any of the God abilities and concepts in the 'Dragons and Gods' book, nor does it include uniquely RIFTS Gods, as well as at least one area who's Gods are in some optional magazine somewhere apparantly (Russia) and anothers who are lost in some strange limbo (China).
If there was not a 'Pantheons of the Megaverse' there would be a solid reason to make a 'Gods' book, perhaps even collect all of the gods already present in various RIFTS titles (Africa, South America, ect) and re-print them fully updated and expanded in a new book, so that when the Ultimate Edition of that book comes along the Gods can be left out (in their own book) and that space can be used for updated and expanded info (which takes up more space and would otherwise add pages). Of course THIS would require some serious planning ahead, and some kind of systematic, strategic implementation of a new edition, which i think is pretty clear is way beyond the reality of Palladium.
All of this is however only really important if you actually care about having Gods in your games. Seeing as I don't, I have no interest in this book or if it ever gets made.
I DID however buy Dragons and Gods...two..? Years ago I think, specifically because i wanted to buy something, ANYTHING from Palladium and it seemed like a good choice, since people like dragons and I could use the info in it for said dragons for RIFTS. I already had the coffee mugs and t-shirt, it seemed like a good idea.
Really, the reason not to do a '... And Gods' book for RIFTS is that there already IS a book of Gods for RIFTS. The unfortunate part is that the book is a little behind the curve, as it doesn't include any of the God abilities and concepts in the 'Dragons and Gods' book, nor does it include uniquely RIFTS Gods, as well as at least one area who's Gods are in some optional magazine somewhere apparantly (Russia) and anothers who are lost in some strange limbo (China).
If there was not a 'Pantheons of the Megaverse' there would be a solid reason to make a 'Gods' book, perhaps even collect all of the gods already present in various RIFTS titles (Africa, South America, ect) and re-print them fully updated and expanded in a new book, so that when the Ultimate Edition of that book comes along the Gods can be left out (in their own book) and that space can be used for updated and expanded info (which takes up more space and would otherwise add pages). Of course THIS would require some serious planning ahead, and some kind of systematic, strategic implementation of a new edition, which i think is pretty clear is way beyond the reality of Palladium.
All of this is however only really important if you actually care about having Gods in your games. Seeing as I don't, I have no interest in this book or if it ever gets made.
I DID however buy Dragons and Gods...two..? Years ago I think, specifically because i wanted to buy something, ANYTHING from Palladium and it seemed like a good choice, since people like dragons and I could use the info in it for said dragons for RIFTS. I already had the coffee mugs and t-shirt, it seemed like a good idea.
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Re: Since the RUE release
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The most "gods of earth" are covered in the RCB2 Pantheons......
So there is ANOTHER reason the Rifts D&G idea is stupid.
The Russian gods were presented in a Rifter if I am remembering correctly.
There are no Japanese "gods", there are only spirits or kami. With some greater and others lesser.
Chinese gods....were to be in MC2 then got moved to RChina3...so who knows when/if they will ever be published in a PB game book. The delay is that those books were slated in for Erik W to write.
Besides with the chinese there is ancestor worship mixed in to the mix so there is a billion little 'gods' along with the taoist jade emp. pantheon.
Native Am.(north) like with Japan...they just have a range of spirits. Which the greater ones are in Spirit West.
SA gods are in the SA books.
So it would not just be a single book they would have to do. PB would have to 'revise' the RCB2 to start, Then collect & revise the gods found in the different worldbooks. And then write up the text for those gods or spirits that were not already written up.
The Main reason for NOT doing a RD&G still stands.
They would be using RUE are the standard, instead of making things better.
Uhh those are EXACTLY WHY a Rifts D&G is needed. Those gods write-ups are all OLD STYLE. They don't have primal deific powers or any of the OTHER boosts that D&G gave to the whole 'gods' thing. So yes, the Gods of North America (yes they are gods, even if they are also spirits please note the label on page 172 "gods") or the Gods of ANY rifts book could use an update. So basicly what your saying is "I don't want revisions, I want new stuff...except for the stuff that I want to just be revised instead of redone."
As for new content....Hrm perhaps this would be a good time to provide things like...The Japanese Gods, or the Chinese Gods, or the Australian Gods. All of whom who are in books that have been demoted/canceled/delayed.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Re: Since the RUE release
Sorry eliakon, but my last reason why the idea for a RD&G book is stupid trumps all other reasons the idea for a RD&G is wanted.
Note: Japanese Do Not Have GODS!!!!! Kami are spirits. There are greater Kami and lesser kami....nether of which are gods.
Note: Asia cultures in general 'do not have gods'....they have spirits...both greater and lesser.
These "Notes" are there so people do not 'put their foot in their mouth' any more.
Note: Japanese Do Not Have GODS!!!!! Kami are spirits. There are greater Kami and lesser kami....nether of which are gods.
Note: Asia cultures in general 'do not have gods'....they have spirits...both greater and lesser.
These "Notes" are there so people do not 'put their foot in their mouth' any more.
Spoiler:
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
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Re: Since the RUE release
yeah, some cultures have single, all powerful God, others have various gods of different power levels, others have entire pantheons of thousands of gods. Also, non-english speaking cultures don't call them 'gods', but instead use words native to their languages. We get it.
If your point that such a book would use the R:UE as the standard and thus it is not worth printing is actually relevant, it would mean that you don't support any RIFTS book printed currently (or since the R:UE release). If that's how you feel, you should put that kind of huge, sweeping statement in your signature, so everyone reading your responses can quickly see where you are coming from.
If your point that such a book would use the R:UE as the standard and thus it is not worth printing is actually relevant, it would mean that you don't support any RIFTS book printed currently (or since the R:UE release). If that's how you feel, you should put that kind of huge, sweeping statement in your signature, so everyone reading your responses can quickly see where you are coming from.
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Re: Since the RUE release
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Sorry eliakon, but my last reason why the idea for a RD&G book is stupid trumps all other reasons the idea for a RD&G is wanted.
Note: Japanese Do Not Have GODS!!!!! Kami are spirits. There are greater Kami and lesser kami....nether of which are gods.
Note: Asia cultures in general 'do not have gods'....they have spirits...both greater and lesser.
These "Notes" are there so people do not 'put their foot in their mouth' any more.Spoiler:
You do realize this is RIFTS, not a cultural treatise on Asian religions. There for when RIFTS says that some of the greater kami are gods, they are gods. Ameratsu for instance is EXPLICITLY labeled as a goddess. This is of course a COMPLEATLY different argument than what does the work 'kami' mean (which is an argument for anthropological linguists).
As for gods that would be needed?
Australia
China
The rest of the ones from England (we have TWO of the celtic gods)
Some of the mentioned but not otherwise discussed alien gods
Perhaps some more of the 'wise ones' that are restraining the 'unnamable ones'
And of course a nice treatise on how to apply the D&G level modifications to the PoM book.
(also I have yet to ever see in logic a 'well my last ,opinion trumps all other opinions' valid argument could you explain how it works?)
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Re: Since the RUE release
eliakon wrote:drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Sorry eliakon, but my last reason why the idea for a RD&G book is stupid trumps all other reasons the idea for a RD&G is wanted.
Note: Japanese Do Not Have GODS!!!!! Kami are spirits. There are greater Kami and lesser kami....nether of which are gods.
Note: Asia cultures in general 'do not have gods'....they have spirits...both greater and lesser.
These "Notes" are there so people do not 'put their foot in their mouth' any more.Spoiler:
You do realize this is RIFTS, not a cultural treatise on Asian religions. There for when RIFTS says that some of the greater kami are gods, they are gods. Ameratsu for instance is EXPLICITLY labeled as a goddess. This is of course a COMPLEATLY different argument than what does the work 'kami' mean (which is an argument for anthropological linguists).
As for gods that would be needed?
Australia
China
The rest of the ones from England (we have TWO of the celtic gods)
Some of the mentioned but not otherwise discussed alien gods
Perhaps some more of the 'wise ones' that are restraining the 'unnamable ones'
And of course a nice treatise on how to apply the D&G level modifications to the PoM book.
(also I have yet to ever see in logic a 'well my last ,opinion trumps all other opinions' valid argument could you explain how it works?)
I had to finish the thread to date, after seeing the "Japan has no Gods" comment. Cuz while the pantheon's not that big, it certainly exists.
As for Celtic, I found it quite interesting that Brighid & Cerridwen were left out, as well as Cernunnos who might not be too thrilled with the borrowing of his name for some aliens - or perhaps those aliens worshiped him on another world/dimension?
Myrrhibis
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Re: Since the RUE release
Anyone know if WB 3 England has been "shadow" updated?
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Re: Since the RUE release
Slight001 wrote:Anyone know if WB 3 England has been "shadow" updated?
Not sure. Thats one that I really want to get because of the Temporal Warriors and their auto dodge bonuses.
I want to see from Palladium:
Updated Aug 2015
-Rifts: Dark Woods/Deep South, Space 110 PA, Scandinavia
-Mechanoids: Space (MDC)
-Robotech: Errata for Marines timeline, Masters Deluxe with SC and UEEF gear, Spaceships
-Updated Errata for post-2006 printings of Rifts books
-Searchable, quality PDFs/E-pubs of current Rifts titles
Updated Aug 2015
-Rifts: Dark Woods/Deep South, Space 110 PA, Scandinavia
-Mechanoids: Space (MDC)
-Robotech: Errata for Marines timeline, Masters Deluxe with SC and UEEF gear, Spaceships
-Updated Errata for post-2006 printings of Rifts books
-Searchable, quality PDFs/E-pubs of current Rifts titles
Re: Since the RUE release
Kagashi wrote:Slight001 wrote:Anyone know if WB 3 England has been "shadow" updated?
Not sure. Thats one that I really want to get because of the Temporal Warriors and their auto dodge bonuses.
I'm thinking of buying it just not sure when I'll get it. Hopefully it'll be updated...
Speaking of auto-dodge bonuses... do you know if world book 17 - Warlords of Russia has been upgraded?
"If your plan relies upon chance to succeed, then you've already failed."
"Sometimes to achieve the greatest good, one must commit great evil."
"Sometimes to achieve the greatest good, one must commit great evil."
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Re: Since the RUE release
I see several mentions of this "shadow updates" - can someone tell me as to what this is? Unofficial updates (without full info to not blow copyright/forum rules) posted somewhere?
Myrrhibis
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Re: Since the RUE release
eliakon wrote:drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The most "gods of earth" are covered in the RCB2 Pantheons......
So there is ANOTHER reason the Rifts D&G idea is stupid.
The Russian gods were presented in a Rifter if I am remembering correctly.
There are no Japanese "gods", there are only spirits or kami. With some greater and others lesser.
Chinese gods....were to be in MC2 then got moved to RChina3...so who knows when/if they will ever be published in a PB game book. The delay is that those books were slated in for Erik W to write.
Besides with the chinese there is ancestor worship mixed in to the mix so there is a billion little 'gods' along with the taoist jade emp. pantheon.
Native Am.(north) like with Japan...they just have a range of spirits. Which the greater ones are in Spirit West.
SA gods are in the SA books.
So it would not just be a single book they would have to do. PB would have to 'revise' the RCB2 to start, Then collect & revise the gods found in the different worldbooks. And then write up the text for those gods or spirits that were not already written up.
The Main reason for NOT doing a RD&G still stands.
They would be using RUE are the standard, instead of making things better.
Uhh those are EXACTLY WHY a Rifts D&G is needed. Those gods write-ups are all OLD STYLE. They don't have primal deific powers or any of the OTHER boosts that D&G gave to the whole 'gods' thing. So yes, the Gods of North America (yes they are gods, even if they are also spirits please note the label on page 172 "gods") or the Gods of ANY rifts book could use an update. So basicly what your saying is "I don't want revisions, I want new stuff...except for the stuff that I want to just be revised instead of redone."
As for new content....Hrm perhaps this would be a good time to provide things like...The Japanese Gods, or the Chinese Gods, or the Australian Gods. All of whom who are in books that have been demoted/canceled/delayed.
I think a pantheons revised may not be a bad idea to bring the gods up to a similiar format to the D&G book. Although it is pretty easy to just assign deific powers as the GM.
Honestly though I can't say I have ever had a god show up in a campaign where their stats would actually matter one way or the other. Unless you are fighting on their home turf it is almost impossible to kill one so fast that they cannot just flee or poof if they chose too so there is rarely any point in actually trying to get into combat with one.
Re: Since the RUE release
Myrrhibis wrote:I see several mentions of this "shadow updates" - can someone tell me as to what this is? Unofficial updates (without full info to not blow copyright/forum rules) posted somewhere?
Shadow Updates are official updates to books that unannounced and unidentifiable to customers via normal means. For example Juicer Uprising before being shadow updated didn't include RUE style progressive auto-dodge bonuses for the various classes of Juicer. However there is nothing within the shop description to indicate that the book has been updated.
"If your plan relies upon chance to succeed, then you've already failed."
"Sometimes to achieve the greatest good, one must commit great evil."
"Sometimes to achieve the greatest good, one must commit great evil."
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Re: Since the RUE release
Slight001 wrote:Myrrhibis wrote:I see several mentions of this "shadow updates" - can someone tell me as to what this is? Unofficial updates (without full info to not blow copyright/forum rules) posted somewhere?
Shadow Updates are official updates to books that unannounced and unidentifiable to customers via normal means. For example Juicer Uprising before being shadow updated didn't include RUE style progressive auto-dodge bonuses for the various classes of Juicer. However there is nothing within the shop description to indicate that the book has been updated.
gotcha - does someone have a listing of what's been shadowed?
Might be worth looking at some of my fellow players' copies, as I tend to get first printings & they wait LOL
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Re: Since the RUE release
kaid wrote:eliakon wrote:drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The most "gods of earth" are covered in the RCB2 Pantheons......
So there is ANOTHER reason the Rifts D&G idea is stupid.
The Russian gods were presented in a Rifter if I am remembering correctly.
There are no Japanese "gods", there are only spirits or kami. With some greater and others lesser.
Chinese gods....were to be in MC2 then got moved to RChina3...so who knows when/if they will ever be published in a PB game book. The delay is that those books were slated in for Erik W to write.
Besides with the chinese there is ancestor worship mixed in to the mix so there is a billion little 'gods' along with the taoist jade emp. pantheon.
Native Am.(north) like with Japan...they just have a range of spirits. Which the greater ones are in Spirit West.
SA gods are in the SA books.
So it would not just be a single book they would have to do. PB would have to 'revise' the RCB2 to start, Then collect & revise the gods found in the different worldbooks. And then write up the text for those gods or spirits that were not already written up.
The Main reason for NOT doing a RD&G still stands.
They would be using RUE are the standard, instead of making things better.
Uhh those are EXACTLY WHY a Rifts D&G is needed. Those gods write-ups are all OLD STYLE. They don't have primal deific powers or any of the OTHER boosts that D&G gave to the whole 'gods' thing. So yes, the Gods of North America (yes they are gods, even if they are also spirits please note the label on page 172 "gods") or the Gods of ANY rifts book could use an update. So basicly what your saying is "I don't want revisions, I want new stuff...except for the stuff that I want to just be revised instead of redone."
As for new content....Hrm perhaps this would be a good time to provide things like...The Japanese Gods, or the Chinese Gods, or the Australian Gods. All of whom who are in books that have been demoted/canceled/delayed.
I think a pantheons revised may not be a bad idea to bring the gods up to a similiar format to the D&G book. Although it is pretty easy to just assign deific powers as the GM.
Honestly though I can't say I have ever had a god show up in a campaign where their stats would actually matter one way or the other. Unless you are fighting on their home turf it is almost impossible to kill one so fast that they cannot just flee or poof if they chose too so there is rarely any point in actually trying to get into combat with one.
happened in one campaign I was playing in, my char a minor war Deity (goddess of high tech warfare) offed a more major Deity (at least on rifts earth for a while) of course you could say she "cheated" because she used an "old school" non haydonite sabotaged syncro cannon, and it was the first time one of those had been fired in the dimension, and he was technically a titan not a god, but he still ended up quite dead (or banished)
Re: Since the RUE release
I'm sure this isn't a comprehensive list...
Ones I own:
Juicer Uprising
Coalition War Campaign
Ones I know of:
Atlantis
It's quite possible I have others, but just haven't noticed them. My original collection of books came from a friend whose moved away and I've been replacing damaged books and trying to find and replace those ones that have been updated to RUE. A process that is a slow and relies upon hunting the forums for those who have the updated books and realize they have something different.
Ones I own:
Juicer Uprising
Coalition War Campaign
Ones I know of:
Atlantis
It's quite possible I have others, but just haven't noticed them. My original collection of books came from a friend whose moved away and I've been replacing damaged books and trying to find and replace those ones that have been updated to RUE. A process that is a slow and relies upon hunting the forums for those who have the updated books and realize they have something different.
"If your plan relies upon chance to succeed, then you've already failed."
"Sometimes to achieve the greatest good, one must commit great evil."
"Sometimes to achieve the greatest good, one must commit great evil."
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Re: Since the RUE release
Perhaps a sticky thread could be created with all the updated books and the print edition/date of the update?
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Re: Since the RUE release
Slight001 wrote:Kagashi wrote:Slight001 wrote:Anyone know if WB 3 England has been "shadow" updated?
Not sure. Thats one that I really want to get because of the Temporal Warriors and their auto dodge bonuses.
I'm thinking of buying it just not sure when I'll get it. Hopefully it'll be updated...
Speaking of auto-dodge bonuses... do you know if world book 17 - Warlords of Russia has been upgraded?
I do not know. I have not seen that printing yet.
I want to see from Palladium:
Updated Aug 2015
-Rifts: Dark Woods/Deep South, Space 110 PA, Scandinavia
-Mechanoids: Space (MDC)
-Robotech: Errata for Marines timeline, Masters Deluxe with SC and UEEF gear, Spaceships
-Updated Errata for post-2006 printings of Rifts books
-Searchable, quality PDFs/E-pubs of current Rifts titles
Updated Aug 2015
-Rifts: Dark Woods/Deep South, Space 110 PA, Scandinavia
-Mechanoids: Space (MDC)
-Robotech: Errata for Marines timeline, Masters Deluxe with SC and UEEF gear, Spaceships
-Updated Errata for post-2006 printings of Rifts books
-Searchable, quality PDFs/E-pubs of current Rifts titles
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Re: Since the RUE release
Slight001 wrote:I'm sure this isn't a comprehensive list...
Ones I own:
Juicer Uprising
Coalition War Campaign
Ones I know of:
Atlantis
It's quite possible I have others, but just haven't noticed them. My original collection of books came from a friend whose moved away and I've been replacing damaged books and trying to find and replace those ones that have been updated to RUE. A process that is a slow and relies upon hunting the forums for those who have the updated books and realize they have something different.
I can confirm JU, CWC, and Atlantis, and add in Free Quebec.
I want to see from Palladium:
Updated Aug 2015
-Rifts: Dark Woods/Deep South, Space 110 PA, Scandinavia
-Mechanoids: Space (MDC)
-Robotech: Errata for Marines timeline, Masters Deluxe with SC and UEEF gear, Spaceships
-Updated Errata for post-2006 printings of Rifts books
-Searchable, quality PDFs/E-pubs of current Rifts titles
Updated Aug 2015
-Rifts: Dark Woods/Deep South, Space 110 PA, Scandinavia
-Mechanoids: Space (MDC)
-Robotech: Errata for Marines timeline, Masters Deluxe with SC and UEEF gear, Spaceships
-Updated Errata for post-2006 printings of Rifts books
-Searchable, quality PDFs/E-pubs of current Rifts titles
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Re: Since the RUE release
Kagashi wrote:Rifts World Book 2 Atlantis, which was the first of the "Secret Revisions". You can tell it was revised because of things like Meltza now having 16 APM and Armor of Ithan amulets costing 20 billion credits instead of 10 million from previous editions
Page 154 of my 4th printing of Atlantis from March 1995 says the "Talisman of Armor" costs 20 million...
Could anyone check this against their printings and tell me what yours says? Wondering where it is worth 10 mill or 20 bill.
Considering that each Altara has one of these, that's some investment for a lowly easily-cloned slave.
Even as low as 10, would be cheaper to outfit the Altara in K-Universal light power armor (page 138-9), not sure why they don't do that.
Renewable MDC is certainly good but the maneuverability and extra attacks from power-armor would be well worth the expense and amplify the investment.
Besides, with FoM introducing an MDC-repair spell, the value of renewable forcefields isn't as huge.
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Re: Since the RUE release
Tor wrote:Page 154 of my 4th printing of Atlantis from March 1995 says the "Talisman of Armor" costs 20 million...
Could anyone check this against their printings and tell me what yours says? Wondering where it is worth 10 mill or 20 bill.
Considering that each Altara has one of these, that's some investment for a lowly easily-cloned slave.
Even as low as 10, would be cheaper to outfit the Altara in K-Universal light power armor (page 138-9), not sure why they don't do that.
Renewable MDC is certainly good but the maneuverability and extra attacks from power-armor would be well worth the expense and amplify the investment.
Besides, with FoM introducing an MDC-repair spell, the value of renewable forcefields isn't as huge.
8th printing 2006, Talisman of Armor 20 million.
Where do you get the idea that the existence of a spell reduces the value of costless M.D.C.? Last I checked that spell was expensive for M.D.C. repairs so unless you're on a lay line or hunkering down after every battle and not getting ambushed or forced to keep moving until you are perfectly repaired/recharged then its at best a stopgap. In the meanwhile the ToA is still viable.
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Re: Since the RUE release
Slight001 wrote:Where do you get the idea that the existence of a spell reduces the value of costless M.D.C.? Last I checked that spell was expensive for M.D.C. repairs so unless you're on a lay line or hunkering down after every battle and not getting ambushed or forced to keep moving until you are perfectly repaired/recharged then its at best a stopgap. In the meanwhile the ToA is still viable.
Mend the Broken costs 10 PPE + 30 PPE per MDC point.
1 MDC = 40 PPE
2 MDC = 70 PPE... etc.
[Begin Tangent]
Although it is ripe for TW abuse. By the math, one could make a TW Mend the Broken rivet gun that repairs 10 MDC for 5 PPE and costs only $19,600 to build. And since it's only a 5th Level spell, this is one of those things I imagine that every TechnoWizard has tucked away in his workshop. "Sure, I can fix that fer 'ya, but it'll cost ya 7,000 credits and take me all week. Come back on Friday fer it." Then five minutes after the customer is gone the object is fixed and the TW is looking for a beer.
[End Tangent]
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Re: Since the RUE release
Mack wrote:Slight001 wrote:Where do you get the idea that the existence of a spell reduces the value of costless M.D.C.? Last I checked that spell was expensive for M.D.C. repairs so unless you're on a lay line or hunkering down after every battle and not getting ambushed or forced to keep moving until you are perfectly repaired/recharged then its at best a stopgap. In the meanwhile the ToA is still viable.
Mend the Broken costs 10 PPE + 30 PPE per MDC point.
1 MDC = 40 PPE
2 MDC = 70 PPE... etc.
[Begin Tangent]
Although it is ripe for TW abuse. By the math, one could make a TW Mend the Broken rivet gun that repairs 10 MDC for 5 PPE and costs only $19,600 to build. And since it's only a 5th Level spell, this is one of those things I imagine that every TechnoWizard has tucked away in his workshop. "Sure, I can fix that fer 'ya, but it'll cost ya 7,000 credits and take me all week. Come back on Friday fer it." Then five minutes after the customer is gone the object is fixed and the TW is looking for a beer.
[End Tangent]
yet another reason to hate the TW construction rules... magic was already ridiculous.
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Re: Since the RUE release
Mack wrote:Slight001 wrote:Where do you get the idea that the existence of a spell reduces the value of costless M.D.C.? Last I checked that spell was expensive for M.D.C. repairs so unless you're on a lay line or hunkering down after every battle and not getting ambushed or forced to keep moving until you are perfectly repaired/recharged then its at best a stopgap. In the meanwhile the ToA is still viable.
Mend the Broken costs 10 PPE + 30 PPE per MDC point.
1 MDC = 40 PPE
2 MDC = 70 PPE... etc.
[Begin Tangent]
Although it is ripe for TW abuse. By the math, one could make a TW Mend the Broken rivet gun that repairs 10 MDC for 5 PPE and costs only $19,600 to build. And since it's only a 5th Level spell, this is one of those things I imagine that every TechnoWizard has tucked away in his workshop. "Sure, I can fix that fer 'ya, but it'll cost ya 7,000 credits and take me all week. Come back on Friday fer it." Then five minutes after the customer is gone the object is fixed and the TW is looking for a beer.
[End Tangent]
Unless there is electronics in the object (since electronics cant be repaired) or if its badly damaged (81% or more of the DC depleted)
Of course the other issue is that while the math is there you still need a GM to say "Sure, I will allow that" (Just like by the math you can us the custom spells rules to make 'I win button' spells....but the GM still needs to bless off on it.)
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Re: Since the RUE release
eliakon wrote:Mack wrote:Slight001 wrote:Where do you get the idea that the existence of a spell reduces the value of costless M.D.C.? Last I checked that spell was expensive for M.D.C. repairs so unless you're on a lay line or hunkering down after every battle and not getting ambushed or forced to keep moving until you are perfectly repaired/recharged then its at best a stopgap. In the meanwhile the ToA is still viable.
Mend the Broken costs 10 PPE + 30 PPE per MDC point.
1 MDC = 40 PPE
2 MDC = 70 PPE... etc.
[Begin Tangent]
Although it is ripe for TW abuse. By the math, one could make a TW Mend the Broken rivet gun that repairs 10 MDC for 5 PPE and costs only $19,600 to build. And since it's only a 5th Level spell, this is one of those things I imagine that every TechnoWizard has tucked away in his workshop. "Sure, I can fix that fer 'ya, but it'll cost ya 7,000 credits and take me all week. Come back on Friday fer it." Then five minutes after the customer is gone the object is fixed and the TW is looking for a beer.
[End Tangent]
Unless there is electronics in the object (since electronics cant be repaired) or if its badly damaged (81% or more of the DC depleted)
Of course the other issue is that while the math is there you still need a GM to say "Sure, I will allow that" (Just like by the math you can us the custom spells rules to make 'I win button' spells....but the GM still needs to bless off on it.)
Totally agree. That's why I'm always careful to use qualifiers like "ripe for abuse" and "by the math." The TW rules require a bit more GM oversight than other parts of the game.
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Re: Since the RUE release
The comparative value. ToA is still viable and stuff. Just the superior awesomeness takes a slight hit with other renewable MDC out there that won't cost you creds.Slight001 wrote:Where do you get the idea that the existence of a spell reduces the value of costless M.D.C.?
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Re: Since the RUE release
Tor wrote:The comparative value. ToA is still viable and stuff. Just the superior awesomeness takes a slight hit with other renewable MDC out there that won't cost you creds.Slight001 wrote:Where do you get the idea that the existence of a spell reduces the value of costless M.D.C.?
The insane cost dated back to the RUE era where the concept of a self-recharging Talisman was unheard of. It was a unique, novel form of magic...and suitably expensive. There are now lots of such items out there, and even PC classes that can make this at lv1...so logically the price should be retconned to a much lower price (probably in line with a suit of heavy body armor)....but it hasn't. *shrugs*
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Re: Since the RUE release
You mean pre-RUE era or RMB era? I agree with you though, with subsequent power creep it would make sense for this to be lower.
Can't an OCC actually make this in one of the UWW classes in later Dimension Books?
Can't an OCC actually make this in one of the UWW classes in later Dimension Books?
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Re: Since the RUE release
In terms of shadow updates have New West and Spirit West received them to anyone's knowledge?
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Re: Since the RUE release
Tor wrote:Kagashi wrote:Rifts World Book 2 Atlantis, which was the first of the "Secret Revisions". You can tell it was revised because of things like Meltza now having 16 APM and Armor of Ithan amulets costing 20 billion credits instead of 10 million from previous editions
Page 154 of my 4th printing of Atlantis from March 1995 says the "Talisman of Armor" costs 20 million...
Could anyone check this against their printings and tell me what yours says? Wondering where it is worth 10 mill or 20 bill.
Considering that each Altara has one of these, that's some investment for a lowly easily-cloned slave.
Even as low as 10, would be cheaper to outfit the Altara in K-Universal light power armor (page 138-9), not sure why they don't do that.
Renewable MDC is certainly good but the maneuverability and extra attacks from power-armor would be well worth the expense and amplify the investment.
Besides, with FoM introducing an MDC-repair spell, the value of renewable forcefields isn't as huge.
I have a 7th Printing from 2001, cost is still 20million.
Remember though that the 20million is the market cost, not the production cost for the Splurgoth so they could have a huge markup.
The Altara's senses might be impacted by the use of the K-U LPA. The Splurgoth are also big on magic, so they may prefer to equip them with magic equipment as opposed to technology. Then there is the psycological aspect that they wouldn't necessarily get with a K-U LPA.
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Re: Since the RUE release
eliakon wrote:I was not aware that the PF D&G book covered all the gods of rifts earth. Can you tell me the page numbers in it for the Splugorth, Russian, Norse, Indian, South American, Japanese, Chinese, Native American.......hrm, sounds like there is enough stuff there to support an entire book......
This would follow Palladium's pattern of re-selling us reprinted things, but I wouldn't particularly like it.
A book detailing gods who were mentioned by name in various books but not statted would be interesting though. There's been several of those in both Pantheons and D+G, probably enough to fill a book with.
It could also expand on the imposter pantheons with new members.
Maybe "Rifts Conversion Book 4: Moer Pantheons" or something.
eliakon wrote:ALL the OLD gods write-ups are totally obsolete.
No they aren't.
eliakon wrote:Look at the Rifts Africa gods vs the D&G version of the same gods. Totally out of whack, and if THOSE gods got special new primal powers, what about all the OTHER gods, you know the gods that will never be relevant to a PF game?
Gods don't necessarily need to have prototypical deific powers. As for Africa v. D+G, that's just a case of each book only showing a portion of the god's abilities.
D+G left out the magic tattoo/elixer stuff for Chaing-Ku (from England) just like it left out the Stone Master OCC held by some Egyptian gods, but the character still have that stuff, it just indicates they don't use it so much on the Palladium World for whatever reason.
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Re: Since the RUE release
Mack wrote:eliakon wrote:Mack wrote:Slight001 wrote:Where do you get the idea that the existence of a spell reduces the value of costless M.D.C.? Last I checked that spell was expensive for M.D.C. repairs so unless you're on a lay line or hunkering down after every battle and not getting ambushed or forced to keep moving until you are perfectly repaired/recharged then its at best a stopgap. In the meanwhile the ToA is still viable.
Mend the Broken costs 10 PPE + 30 PPE per MDC point.
1 MDC = 40 PPE
2 MDC = 70 PPE... etc.
[Begin Tangent]
Although it is ripe for TW abuse. By the math, one could make a TW Mend the Broken rivet gun that repairs 10 MDC for 5 PPE and costs only $19,600 to build. And since it's only a 5th Level spell, this is one of those things I imagine that every TechnoWizard has tucked away in his workshop. "Sure, I can fix that fer 'ya, but it'll cost ya 7,000 credits and take me all week. Come back on Friday fer it." Then five minutes after the customer is gone the object is fixed and the TW is looking for a beer.
[End Tangent]
Unless there is electronics in the object (since electronics cant be repaired) or if its badly damaged (81% or more of the DC depleted)
Of course the other issue is that while the math is there you still need a GM to say "Sure, I will allow that" (Just like by the math you can us the custom spells rules to make 'I win button' spells....but the GM still needs to bless off on it.)
Totally agree. That's why I'm always careful to use qualifiers like "ripe for abuse" and "by the math." The TW rules require a bit more GM oversight than other parts of the game.
The TW rules are fine as an outline but even as written you need the GM's to approve the spell chains used in the creation and if they see something to crazy they can just make you add more stuff to the spell chain for creation which lowers efficiency and raises cost.
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Re: Since the RUE release
ShadowLogan wrote:Tor wrote:Kagashi wrote:Rifts World Book 2 Atlantis, which was the first of the "Secret Revisions". You can tell it was revised because of things like Meltza now having 16 APM and Armor of Ithan amulets costing 20 billion credits instead of 10 million from previous editions
Page 154 of my 4th printing of Atlantis from March 1995 says the "Talisman of Armor" costs 20 million...
Could anyone check this against their printings and tell me what yours says? Wondering where it is worth 10 mill or 20 bill.
Considering that each Altara has one of these, that's some investment for a lowly easily-cloned slave.
Even as low as 10, would be cheaper to outfit the Altara in K-Universal light power armor (page 138-9), not sure why they don't do that.
Renewable MDC is certainly good but the maneuverability and extra attacks from power-armor would be well worth the expense and amplify the investment.
Besides, with FoM introducing an MDC-repair spell, the value of renewable forcefields isn't as huge.
I have a 7th Printing from 2001, cost is still 20million.
Remember though that the 20million is the market cost, not the production cost for the Splurgoth so they could have a huge markup.
The Altara's senses might be impacted by the use of the K-U LPA. The Splurgoth are also big on magic, so they may prefer to equip them with magic equipment as opposed to technology. Then there is the psycological aspect that they wouldn't necessarily get with a K-U LPA.
Hmm, my third printing also states 20 million. I was mistaken. I did notice the Book of Magic listed it at 10 million, perhaps that is where I saw it being listed at that price. Apologies for the misinformation.
I want to see from Palladium:
Updated Aug 2015
-Rifts: Dark Woods/Deep South, Space 110 PA, Scandinavia
-Mechanoids: Space (MDC)
-Robotech: Errata for Marines timeline, Masters Deluxe with SC and UEEF gear, Spaceships
-Updated Errata for post-2006 printings of Rifts books
-Searchable, quality PDFs/E-pubs of current Rifts titles
Updated Aug 2015
-Rifts: Dark Woods/Deep South, Space 110 PA, Scandinavia
-Mechanoids: Space (MDC)
-Robotech: Errata for Marines timeline, Masters Deluxe with SC and UEEF gear, Spaceships
-Updated Errata for post-2006 printings of Rifts books
-Searchable, quality PDFs/E-pubs of current Rifts titles
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Re: Since the RUE release
Will take 10, market prob got flooded, price went down.
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