How I see riuned cities in Rifts

[keir451]

Allowing for the descriptions that MDC material is immune to weather and all I kinda see amny pre-Rifts citries looking like this... http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=log ... dIndex=489. Totally ovegrown and abandoned but still intact. They should be treasure troves of pre-Rifts technology, especially palces like Detroit, Chicago, Denver, L.A., etc. Think of waht the 2098 Ford and GM facilties would look like, I iamgine massive arcology structures, vacuum sealed, underground high sped maglev train systems criss crossing the natiion. Maybe like this, http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=log ... dIndex=222, or this one http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Gen ... tedIndex=0.

[Greyaxe]

Great Image.

[Shark_Force]

well, I doubt they're still treasure troves. undoubtedly they were at one point, but after 300 years of looting and scavenging, they probably don't have much left in the way of treasure.

[Greyaxe]

Treasure troves, no. Dungeons, definitely.

[Zer0 Kay]

Where's it say that all buildings in cities were rebuilt in mdc materials? Most of the east and west coast should be in visible ruin because of the tsunamis and earthquakes. Anything near mt rainier and Yellowstone should be blasted. And most if not all of the national monuments should be damaged, because unless its as easy as spraying a film on the government isn't going to pay to have them deconstructed and reconstructed in mdc materials.

[glitterboy2098]

the life after people show would be a good base point..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XDbcMND7fY

you'd have to account for the many environmental disasters of the catalysm, but it gives a good idea of how time would decay the SDC structures. and keep in mind that even MDC structures would have SDC parts inside.. no need to make MDC buildings with full MDC floors when just some strucutral members can be used to support SDC flooring. non-load bearing walls inside would probably still be SDC. wiring is still sdc, as is the AC, etc..

i'd imagine that on the east and west coasts most of the SDC buildings are just gone between the tidal waves and sheer time.. and most of the MDC buildings would be little more than empty shells.

in the interior of the country, most SDC buildings that were not buried in ash are probably the same.

[Zer0 Kay]

the life after people show would be a good base point..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XDbcMND7fY

you'd have to account for the many environmental disasters of the catalysm, but it gives a good idea of how time would decay the SDC structures. and keep in mind that even MDC structures would have SDC parts inside.. no need to make MDC buildings with full MDC floors when just some strucutral members can be used to support SDC flooring. non-load bearing walls inside would probably still be SDC. wiring is still sdc, as is the AC, etc..

i'd imagine that on the east and west coasts most of the SDC buildings are just gone between the tidal waves and sheer time.. and most of the MDC buildings would be little more than empty shells.

in the interior of the country, most SDC buildings that were not buried in ash are probably the same.

From tidal waves and Earthquakes? If the little ones that magic causes does MDC then even MDC buildings should be damaged by the massive ones caused by the apocolypse. If anyone would like to argue that its magic influenced water and earthquakes then id argue so were ALL of the "natural" disasters caused by the coming of the leylines. The Earth was ravaged by magic.

[keir451]

the life after people show would be a good base point..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XDbcMND7fY

you'd have to account for the many environmental disasters of the catalysm, but it gives a good idea of how time would decay the SDC structures. and keep in mind that even MDC structures would have SDC parts inside.. no need to make MDC buildings with full MDC floors when just some strucutral members can be used to support SDC flooring. non-load bearing walls inside would probably still be SDC. wiring is still sdc, as is the AC, etc..

i'd imagine that on the east and west coasts most of the SDC buildings are just gone between the tidal waves and sheer time.. and most of the MDC buildings would be little more than empty shells.

in the interior of the country, most SDC buildings that were not buried in ash are probably the same.

From tidal waves and Earthquakes? If the little ones that magic causes does MDC then even MDC buildings should be damaged by the massive ones caused by the apocolypse. If anyone would like to argue that its magic influenced water and earthquakes then id argue so were ALL of the "natural" disasters caused by the coming of the leylines. The Earth was ravaged by magic.

Totally valid points I'd failed to consider. Yes cities, coastal cities especially, that were in the path of certain natural disasters were most assuredly damaged, even destroyed, yet there may still be tech in some of them that hasn't been recovered for various reasons. But the places that weren't directly hit by these things and WERE built of MD materials would most likely still be intact and if they were locked down before they were abandoned they could still hold treasures inside. Part of the issue seems to be, are we having trouble imagining the potential tech available? We already build building to survivie earthquakes and we've got technologies that could help us versus tsunamis and we could even have buildings that can survive hurricanes and twisters as well. Now admittedly the question would be could these "defenses" survive MULTIPLES of such things? I would figure that certain places may have been reinforced w/ MD materials, especially in coastal regions or earthquakes zones, to make them more survivable but the home of the "average joe" would still be of the more common materials. IMO Washington, D.C. would have been reinforced heavily as well as certain important buildings in other cities. Now I agree that D.C. IS under water, but many of the important buildings may have survived.

[Zer0 Kay]

the life after people show would be a good base point..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XDbcMND7fY

you'd have to account for the many environmental disasters of the catalysm, but it gives a good idea of how time would decay the SDC structures. and keep in mind that even MDC structures would have SDC parts inside.. no need to make MDC buildings with full MDC floors when just some strucutral members can be used to support SDC flooring. non-load bearing walls inside would probably still be SDC. wiring is still sdc, as is the AC, etc..

i'd imagine that on the east and west coasts most of the SDC buildings are just gone between the tidal waves and sheer time.. and most of the MDC buildings would be little more than empty shells.

in the interior of the country, most SDC buildings that were not buried in ash are probably the same.

From tidal waves and Earthquakes? If the little ones that magic causes does MDC then even MDC buildings should be damaged by the massive ones caused by the apocolypse. If anyone would like to argue that its magic influenced water and earthquakes then id argue so were ALL of the "natural" disasters caused by the coming of the leylines. The Earth was ravaged by magic.

Totally valid points I'd failed to consider. Yes cities, coastal cities especially, that were in the path of certain natural disasters were most assuredly damaged, even destroyed, yet there may still be tech in some of them that hasn't been recovered for various reasons. But the places that weren't directly hit by these things and WERE built of MD materials would most likely still be intact and if they were locked down before they were abandoned they could still hold treasures inside. Part of the issue seems to be, are we having trouble imagining the potential tech available? We already build building to survivie earthquakes and we've got technologies that could help us versus tsunamis and we could even have buildings that can survive hurricanes and twisters as well. Now admittedly the question would be could these "defenses" survive MULTIPLES of such things? I would figure that certain places may have been reinforced w/ MD materials, especially in coastal regions or earthquakes zones, to make them more survivable but the home of the "average joe" would still be of the more common materials. IMO Washington, D.C. would have been reinforced heavily as well as certain important buildings in other cities. Now I agree that D.C. IS under water, but many of the important buildings may have survived.

I don't think I am in an old thread for GB variants, the treasure chest is a NEMA production plant, the treasure, a fully automated mining, refinery and assembly line for GBs, that is set to produce new units after the ready units are taken. Bad mojo, a tectonic entity who's body is made up of GBs.

[ShadowLogan]

undoubtedly they were at one point, but after 300 years of looting and scavenging, they probably don't have much left in the way of treasure.

In addition don't forget about the various battles that have taken place. Missed attacks (missiles, magic attacks, railguns, energy weapons, etc) are going to damage buildings. Even SN PS (maybe even Robotic, Bionic, and Augmented level) can inflict damage, so demon plagues (and such) could have seriously damaged buildings and such either intentionally or unintentionally.

The CS is known to have bombed the WI Cities of Milwaukee and Madison as far back as RMB turning them into barren wastelands. Further supporting the idea that buildings aren't necessarily going to be intact.

IMO Washington, D.C. would have been reinforced heavily as well as certain important buildings in other cities. Now I agree that D.C. IS under water, but many of the important buildings may have survived.

DC is not under water (at least completely) as far back as RMB and even in RUE.

RMB pg146 "The city of Washington is in ruins, although a thriving tech-center, calling itself the 'Republicans,' lays claim to the old ruins and subterranean tunnels of the old subways. They are a growing power in the East (60% human; little magic, but heavy on all forms of augmentation and psionics)."

RUE pg41 "The city of Washington D.C. is in ruins. For a long time there have been rumors and legends about a thriving tech-center, calling itself the 'Republicans.' The legend say they lay claim to the part of the capitol area of the old ruins and control the subway tunnels. If the Republicans exist at all, and I believe they do, or at least did up until 10 or 15 years ago, they are a hidden society locked in some kind of secret war. A war against an unidentified menace also in the Maryland or Virgina region. Why they are so secretive and with whom it is they are at war, is all part of the mystery surrounding this group. I know their enemy is not the Coalition States, because the CS thinks the Republicans are a fairy tale from the Dark Age.

[keir451]

undoubtedly they were at one point, but after 300 years of looting and scavenging, they probably don't have much left in the way of treasure.

In addition don't forget about the various battles that have taken place. Missed attacks (missiles, magic attacks, railguns, energy weapons, etc) are going to damage buildings. Even SN PS (maybe even Robotic, Bionic, and Augmented level) can inflict damage, so demon plagues (and such) could have seriously damaged buildings and such either intentionally or unintentionally.

The CS is known to have bombed the WI Cities of Milwaukee and Madison as far back as RMB turning them into barren wastelands. Further supporting the idea that buildings aren't necessarily going to be intact.

IMO Washington, D.C. would have been reinforced heavily as well as certain important buildings in other cities. Now I agree that D.C. IS under water, but many of the important buildings may have survived.

DC is not under water (at least completely) as far back as RMB and even in RUE.

RMB pg146 "The city of Washington is in ruins, although a thriving tech-center, calling itself the 'Republicans,' lays claim to the old ruins and subterranean tunnels of the old subways. They are a growing power in the East (60% human; little magic, but heavy on all forms of augmentation and psionics)."

RUE pg41 "The city of Washington D.C. is in ruins. For a long time there have been rumors and legends about a thriving tech-center, calling itself the 'Republicans.' The legend say they lay claim to the part of the capitol area of the old ruins and control the subway tunnels. If the Republicans exist at all, and I believe they do, or at least did up until 10 or 15 years ago, they are a hidden society locked in some kind of secret war. A war against an unidentified menace also in the Maryland or Virgina region. Why they are so secretive and with whom it is they are at war, is all part of the mystery surrounding this group. I know their enemy is not the Coalition States, because the CS thinks the Republicans are a fairy tale from the Dark Age.

Thanks for the reminder on D.C. I forget why I ever thought it was under water, maybe from looking at the maps for Rifts era East Coast. I think it'd be interesting to have ARCHIE wake up the NEMA troops and watch the Republicans suddenly become an actual force backed by Shemarrians.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

undoubtedly they were at one point, but after 300 years of looting and scavenging, they probably don't have much left in the way of treasure.

In addition don't forget about the various battles that have taken place. Missed attacks (missiles, magic attacks, railguns, energy weapons, etc) are going to damage buildings. Even SN PS (maybe even Robotic, Bionic, and Augmented level) can inflict damage, so demon plagues (and such) could have seriously damaged buildings and such either intentionally or unintentionally.

The CS is known to have bombed the WI Cities of Milwaukee and Madison as far back as RMB turning them into barren wastelands. Further supporting the idea that buildings aren't necessarily going to be intact.

IMO Washington, D.C. would have been reinforced heavily as well as certain important buildings in other cities. Now I agree that D.C. IS under water, but many of the important buildings may have survived.

DC is not under water (at least completely) as far back as RMB and even in RUE.

RMB pg146 "The city of Washington is in ruins, although a thriving tech-center, calling itself the 'Republicans,' lays claim to the old ruins and subterranean tunnels of the old subways. They are a growing power in the East (60% human; little magic, but heavy on all forms of augmentation and psionics)."

RUE pg41 "The city of Washington D.C. is in ruins. For a long time there have been rumors and legends about a thriving tech-center, calling itself the 'Republicans.' The legend say they lay claim to the part of the capitol area of the old ruins and control the subway tunnels. If the Republicans exist at all, and I believe they do, or at least did up until 10 or 15 years ago, they are a hidden society locked in some kind of secret war. A war against an unidentified menace also in the Maryland or Virgina region. Why they are so secretive and with whom it is they are at war, is all part of the mystery surrounding this group. I know their enemy is not the Coalition States, because the CS thinks the Republicans are a fairy tale from the Dark Age.

Thanks for the reminder on D.C. I forget why I ever thought it was under water, maybe from looking at the maps for Rifts era East Coast. I think it'd be interesting to have ARCHIE wake up the NEMA troops and watch the Republicans suddenly become an actual force backed by Shemarrians.

or Archie wakes them up and the general tells Archie it made the right call by not waking them and now you have a NEMA force back by shemarrians and their fight target is the so-called republicans.

[ShadowLogan]

Thanks for the reminder on D.C. I forget why I ever thought it was under water, maybe from looking at the maps for Rifts era East Coast. I think it'd be interesting to have ARCHIE wake up the NEMA troops and watch the Republicans suddenly become an actual force backed by Shemarrians.

Your welcome. I went back and looked for more context. On each of those pages BEFORE they bring up Washington, they have a general over view of the states of Virgina, Deleware, and Maryland which might lead one to think that if not paying attention to the details (all of Deleware, parts of Virgina and Maryland are submerged, with D.C. as a reference point).

I'm not sure if ARCHIE will ever wake up the NEMA troops voluntarily. Though personally I'm not a big fan of the Repbulican/NEMA aspect that KS took.

[keir451]

Thanks for the reminder on D.C. I forget why I ever thought it was under water, maybe from looking at the maps for Rifts era East Coast. I think it'd be interesting to have ARCHIE wake up the NEMA troops and watch the Republicans suddenly become an actual force backed by Shemarrians.

Your welcome. I went back and looked for more context. On each of those pages BEFORE they bring up Washington, they have a general over view of the states of Virgina, Deleware, and Maryland which might lead one to think that if not paying attention to the details (all of Deleware, parts of Virgina and Maryland are submerged, with D.C. as a reference point).

I'm not sure if ARCHIE will ever wake up the NEMA troops voluntarily. Though personally I'm not a big fan of the Repbulican/NEMA aspect that KS took.

Thanks again, I'll go abck and reread those sections. Wasn't D.C. rather swamp-like originally? Back during colonial times? Yeah I'm not a big fan of the depiction of the Republicans either, of course I think there's too much "evil" in Kevin's idea of Rifts. If someone were able to convince ARCHIE that he world was "stable enough" he might (BIG might) do it, but it would take a one HELL of a RPing session to convince that Ai.

[ShadowLogan]

It's not so much that we have another "evil" block, its that we have yet another shadowy behind the scenes player. NA has plenty of them, and the Republicans really don't add to it what with the FoM, Vangard, Archie-3. Then there are the less hidden, but somewhat exposed Psycape (may actually belong on the first list), Black-Market, Wilks and Titan Robotics are both shadowy producers, Centaurs in Ixion (sp, though again they may belong on the first list), etc.

[keir451]

It's not so much that we have another "evil" block, its that we have yet another shadowy behind the scenes player. NA has plenty of them, and the Republicans really don't add to it what with the FoM, Vangard, Archie-3. Then there are the less hidden, but somewhat exposed Psycape (may actually belong on the first list), Black-Market, Wilks and Titan Robotics are both shadowy producers, Centaurs in Ixion (sp, though again they may belong on the first list), etc.

Agreed. Thouhg we can easily lum Titna Robotics in wiht ARCHIE as they're just front for one of his ambitions, and let's not forget the Shemarrians (yet ANOTHER of ARCHIE and Hagans shemes). So that's two bad guys that are effectively just ONE bad guy. Wilks is less of a "shadow" force, IMO, as they really don't do much besides produce weapons and tools Sure they're not well defined, but that's about it. The Cyberhorsemen of Ixion aren't really even players in the grand scheme of things (or at least it seems that way) as they really don't do much besides provide another player race. Psyscape is certainly a shadow palyer, but on what scale? It seesm that mostly they just sit in their little hidey hole and train psychics. I'm not disparaging them, it's just they're ratehr snmall time when compared against ARCHIE and the CS and the FoM. But that's all my individual opinion and really doesn't affect much.

[ShadowLogan]

Given that people/power blocks in Rifts NA don't realize how much they depend on Wilks (IIRC this is pretty much stated fact in one of the books), I would say they are a shadowy force to be reckoned with.

The Cyberhorseman of Ixion have a city, which no one seems to know where it is. That pretty much makes them a shadowy force, maybe not to the extent that some of the other powers on my list, but they are still a force out there. The same pretty much goes for Psyscape.

Titan Robotics and the Shemerians could be lumped with Archie, but they are each one of several known public fronts (a 3rd being his resource "d-bee", so there could be others). Both are mysterious on many levels, but Titan Robotics comes across as more of a shadowy player than the Shemerians who appear to be more nomadic.

[Noon]

well, I doubt they're still treasure troves. undoubtedly they were at one point, but after 300 years of looting and scavenging, they probably don't have much left in the way of treasure.

Yeah, I think so too.

Had trouble in various posts where other posters thought you couldn't go outside without tripping over a laser rifle.

[keir451]

well, I doubt they're still treasure troves. undoubtedly they were at one point, but after 300 years of looting and scavenging, they probably don't have much left in the way of treasure.

Yeah, I think so too.

Had trouble in various posts where other posters thought you couldn't go outside without tripping over a laser rifle.

"Treasue" is relative. I agree that you're not tripping over laser rifles and such, but even after 300 yrs I doubt every ruin has been picked clean and what you'll find can be anything from a personal computer to some guys vacuum sealed collection of Marvel comics. You might find a weapon or two that was overlooked because it was under something but that would be an extremely rare occurance. Mostly I'm just looking at the imagery and then thinking what locations might have been reinforced w/ the "new" MD materials and might still be relatively intact.

[Kagashi]

Not sure if the fact something being MDC means it's immune to the test of time. Might take longer to break down, but after 300 years, would likely to be unusable.

[keir451]

Not sure if the fact something being MDC means it's immune to the test of time. Might take longer to break down, but after 300 years, would likely to be unusable.

I agree that it may just take onlger to breakdown, but that also depends upon other factors as well, such as the actual enviromental conditions.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Depending on the type of structure, it's location doing the coming of the rifts and how much damage it took doing that time frame and what happened after. Now if they are usable or not depends on factors too, so depending on what it going to be used for.
As for what it might look like
I have imagine old Chicago from buck Rogers in the 25 the century as rifts earth old Chicago.
Then add in from oblivion the city skyline encase in earth , then add in definace's old St. Louis deep underground, which could easy be the fate of several cities, add in Logan's run Washington, D.C. Fill the blanks with after you could use tv shows,life after people,and aftermath population zero around the 300 year time line.

[Zer0 Kay]

Not sure if the fact something being MDC means it's immune to the test of time. Might take longer to break down, but after 300 years, would likely to be unusable.

I agree that it may just take onlger to breakdown, but that also depends upon other factors as well, such as the actual enviromental conditions.

I disagree, everything that can be weathered is essentially SDC and can be damaged by SDC weapons. If an object can't be damaged, no matter what, with an SDC weapon unless it causes damage in the same location over a short period of time, then it can't be weathered. Otherwise that is the same as saying that if you shoot a Glitterboy with a .22 with, heck since it doesn't matter, 1,000 rounds over 1,000 days that you will do at least 10 MD... and it won't so MD doesn't weather, doesn't oxidize, doesn't rust, doesn't pit from standard acids. So unless your on a planet where the weather does MD there is no weathering.

[kaid]

well, I doubt they're still treasure troves. undoubtedly they were at one point, but after 300 years of looting and scavenging, they probably don't have much left in the way of treasure.

Pretty much this. There are probably some more or less intact things especially sub surface ones but after 300 years of dimensional anomalies, a mega volcano erupting dumping ten's/hundreds of feet deep ash layers over vast parts of the central/western parts of the country, epic tidal waves pretty much erasing anything along coast lines which is the vast majority of major cities currently there would not be to many remaining surface golden age things.


There are a few like relic and a lot of the current cities in rifts are built on the bones of semi intact golden age ruins like chi town and the main northern gun cities.

Sub surface bunkers especially more secret ones can still be found if very rare. Most old maps are not very useful due to how the topography has changed. Area 51 is an example. The black market managed to find a way into the sub surface areas and found it largely intact and same with the lone star facility. The surface was either rubble or wiped clean but the sub surface bunker portions of the facilities remained operable.

[Lt Gargoyle]

I think the idea of treasure will depend one the individual who is searching the ruins. I could see a underground parking garage partially serving. In fact I allowed a Operator to find a old Lamborghini which she modified to a hover vehicle. She found it a treasure. Another PC might have seen it as a waste since the structure was buried and the car would never had been able to drive on the terrain had it not been turned into a hover vehicle.