Misc. Rifts Vehicles

[taalismn]

Anything new? I am looking forward to seeing more.

You can't see the invisible plane post?
No?
Guess it's working then.

[Aramanthus]

I did see that. I was hoping for something else. Didn't you see my post on the invisible plane? It is there.

[abtex]

Which one of you based your 'unseen' plane on the WW2 Germany Nazi design not see?
So other must have used the fairy's bad camo paint pattern of bright pink and purple with blue and green lip stick job on the cockpit and engines.

The flight officer walks out to the runway.
See the plane and says "WHAT is that?!? I don't want to see this! I really don't want to see this!!"
Then returns to his office to file a report. Reads it, then burns it.
Put on his rose colored glasses and when for a second look. "Now that's must better."

[taalismn]

Dazzle-camouflage....so mindbendingly hideous that the observer's mind automatically brain-bleaches it from perception and memory.

WW1, the Germans actually experimented with a 'stealth' plane skinned in transparent cellophane(or a close analogue) over the aircraft frame. Besides cracking and stretching, in daylight the stuff fairly SHIMMERED, drawing the attention of every observer in the area.

[ShadowLogan]

Dazzle-camouflage....so mindbendingly hideous that the observer's mind automatically brain-bleaches it from perception and memory.

WW1, the Germans actually experimented with a 'stealth' plane skinned in transparent cellophane(or a close analogue) over the aircraft frame. Besides cracking and stretching, in daylight the stuff fairly SHIMMERED, drawing the attention of every observer in the area.

Why does that make me think of the 70s version of Wonder Woman with her Invisible Jet.

[taalismn]

The German aircraft in question was called the Linke-Hofman R.1 or R.8/15. Prospective test pilots said "It was not an aircraft, but a sickness." Test flights did not go well.

[abtex]

Just like your PS OA-15 ‘Meadowlark’ Light Observation Aircraft? Are close to it.

So what did your invisible plane use?

[taalismn]

Just like your PS OA-15 ‘Meadowlark’ Light Observation Aircraft? Are close to it.

So what did your invisible plane use?

The OA-15 used good modern plexiglass for observation. The Linke-Hofman R.1 or R.8/15 was, believe it or not, meant as a BOMBER.
Of course, you look at later German observation aircraft, the amount of glazing, as with the Bv 141 and the FW 189, meant they were virtually flying greenhouses(since the most advanced airborne sensor of the day available for ground searches was Mark One Eyeball).

The Meadowlark, for stealth, used jamming pods and magic. With Invisibility, and a few other spells, one could make a brick stealthy.

[abtex]

I'm tempted to find and post the old write-ups I had for CS non-line vehicles. Stuff that replaces modern Hemmits, Humvees, MRAPs, and all that. But I'll stick to the Armor and Weaponry Thread for right now.

Is the Buffalo one of your old write-ups, T-Willard?

[taalismn]

I'm tempted to find and post the old write-ups I had for CS non-line vehicles. Stuff that replaces modern Hemmits, Humvees, MRAPs, and all that. But I'll stick to the Armor and Weaponry Thread for right now.

Is the Buffalo one of your old write-ups, T-Willard?

I dunno if T-Willard did one, but I certainly did a PS version of it.

[T-Willard]

I'm tempted to find and post the old write-ups I had for CS non-line vehicles. Stuff that replaces modern Hemmits, Humvees, MRAPs, and all that. But I'll stick to the Armor and Weaponry Thread for right now.

Is the Buffalo one of your old write-ups, T-Willard?

No, sadly.

Back when I did up the write-ups it was like 1994-1998, before I got a C&D notice from some lawyers.

Although I might do it.

Our "militarize the CS" project came about when a bunch of us were part of the Force XXI project, and we learned a LOT about field weapon trials, weapon histories, and the way things worked for procurement when we were part of the weapon trials. One of the things one of the over-seeing officers involved pointed out to me was the Sergeant York vehicle, which was just failure after failure, problems getting parts, mismatched parts, upgrades taht only half the team recieved, and other problems. Plus I remember the late 1980's field trials that brought around the M-16A2, the M-249 SAW.

All of that means that when I sit down and look at a vehicle or weapon I not only figure out the end result, but the steps that got it there. From the analysis paper that tried to either roll an existing vehicle into the existing forces and modify the doctrine, to the situation/advancements that led to the weapon system.

NO system is perfect, and everything has its good and bad parts. So I usually just come up with flaws that high-tech would bring about.

So me and my friends used to sit around and talk about what vehicles needed added to the CS TO&E, what problems there might have been, and all of that. We used to joke about how a Lizard Mage, who has no understanding of technology, would tear apart a simple VCR looking for the "illusion crystal" that made it work. This led us to figure out other problems.

Eh, I'm doped up on painkillers, so probably rambling.

Short thing is, I've got a LOT of boring vehicles for the CS, stuff like forklifts, cranes, pallet-jacks, generators, everything an actual modern military would need to create a FOB or Logbase. Which, when finished, had a lot of options open up to the PC's when working against the CS. Which meant that the options were more than "just kill all 175 soldiers at the FOB, who are all in SAMAS and Dead Boy" to other adventures.

So I guess I could start posting what I thought people would think was a little too boring. I mean, we all understand that physics won't allow a power armor to pick up a 2.5 ton engine by the bottom edge, which is why forklifts are still a thing.

I mean, is mining equipment, bridge layers, forklifts, cranes, and the rest really that interesting?

[abtex]

Is the Buffalo one of your old write-ups, T-Willard?

No, sadly.

Although I might do it.

Eh, I'm doped up on painkillers, so probably rambling.

Short thing is, I've got a LOT of boring vehicles for the CS, stuff like forklifts, cranes, pallet-jacks, generators, everything an actual modern military would need to create a FOB or Logbase. Which, when finished, had a lot of options open up to the PC's when working against the CS. Which meant that the options were more than "just kill all 175 soldiers at the FOB, who are all in SAMAS and Dead Boy" to other adventures.

So I guess I could start posting what I thought people would think was a little too boring. I mean, we all understand that physics won't allow a power armor to pick up a 2.5 ton engine by the bottom edge, which is why forklifts are still a thing.

I mean, is mining equipment, bridge layers, forklifts, cranes, and the rest really that interesting?

Thanks. Glad you are back.
Painkillers ... Hope you feeling alright?

Any thing you want or can (some lawyers and the rest of them) to post will be OK.
Check out the http://shushpanzer-ru.livejournal.com/ site/blog for things that might be available for write-ups.

"You see how to get there."
Mine is what else can be done with it. What can we do if used for different tasks or in another way. How survivors of the Coming use common available vehicles. The military has 1-3 of this, the local city uses 10 of them, the private workers have 200 in use. A 21sin version of the bobcat multi-purpose worker refitted as a defense vehicle, the poor man's "Power Armor" with a little (maybe lots of upgrades). Give it some armor and other protection, already able to carry heavy weapons, supplies, and other stuff. (Brain running out of steam.) What would NEMA retired personal with military know-how do if able to get the right gear and weapons. Are needing replacement parts and no supply train to get them, you talk about that being done in your "Rifts _Up Close_ Armor and Weaponry Megathread". Even worst those who became farmers and other shade tree 'engineers' with a pile of wreckage, some tools and the thought "You know I could do that, with those parts."

Worst ones are how would you make the 'mistakes' of history work or military re-actors refit their weapons, vehicles and aircraft to fight in the in new Rifts age combat. Sometimes what other versions might be useful. Bad ideas that may never see the light of a computer screen. The vehicle tested again the Sergeant York would be a good write up.

[abtex]

Worst like taalismn and others, I found a set of pictures like 'Cool Looking Vehicles' and that "You know..." thought starts bouncing around the empty space behind my eye balls.

This one also is a good one. On bad thinking.

[taalismn]

[
I mean, is mining equipment, bridge layers, forklifts, cranes, and the rest really that interesting?

It can be. Especially if you want to pass time (like on a bus, or in a station) where you can't really game the Fall of Tolkeen, but you ARE fingering what you need to set up an outpost or a mercantile effort. It can really suck if you have a ship, a cargo, and a contract, but no means of quickly and efficiently unloading it and your client can't rustle up enough manpower to do it.
Having a portable steel landing matt airfield to land on, as opposed to a dirt field with poor drainage, can make a helluva difference if you don't have VTOL capabilities.
Having spare portable generators for your colonial outpost can make a difference when the local wildlife/bandits takes out your main power supply.
Having stuff for your Technowizard or Crazy pimp and ride? Priceless.

Find a niche and fill it.

[abtex]

[
I mean, is mining equipment, bridge layers, forklifts, cranes, and the rest really that interesting?

Having stuff for your Technowizard or Crazy pimp and ride? Priceless.

Find a niche and fill it.

Something to mount PS CLWT-04 ‘Mini-Mon’ turret on. This needs an upgrade to CyberWeight weapons, someday.

[abtex]

Just like your PS OA-15 ‘Meadowlark’ Light Observation Aircraft? Are close to it.

Of course, you look at later German observation aircraft, the amount of glazing, as with the Bv 141 and the FW 189, meant they were virtually flying greenhouses (since the most advanced airborne sensor of the day available for ground searches was Mark One Eyeball).

Here is another one of the flying greenhouses, Me-109 ZZ, German WWII "Zwilling Zerstoerer".

[taalismn]

Unicraft Models...always a fun site to visit for eccentric aircraft designs.

[torjones]

Any thing you want or can (some lawyers and the rest of them) to post will be OK.
Check out the http://shushpanzer-ru.livejournal.com/ for things that might be available for write-ups.

for those who were wondering about the vehicle sd.kfz.251 ausf.d that was listed on that page, the big water heater looking thing on the back is a wood gasifier. basically lets the engine run on wood. I hadn't realized that they were in use during WWII as widely as that would suggest.

[taalismn]

Any thing you want or can (some lawyers and the rest of them) to post will be OK.
Check out the http://shushpanzer-ru.livejournal.com/ for things that might be available for write-ups.

for those who were wondering about the vehicle sd.kfz.251 ausf.d that was listed on that page, the big water heater looking thing on the back is a wood gasifier. basically lets the engine run on wood. I hadn't realized that they were in use during WWII as widely as that would suggest.

You have my interest. Thanks for bringing that up; it could be a very useful thing for post-Rifts vehicles to utilize.

Now, if somebody had some stats on how much wood cordage/pounds of charcoal is needed to equal a gallon of gas, creating game stats would be a cinch.

[abtex]

Google search for: "how much wood equal a gallon of gas"

A cord of wood equals how many gallons of fuel oil? -- 175 gallons
A cord of wood equals a tightly stacked 4 foot by 4 foot by 8 Wt

Try this link for different values:
http://www.waterprofessionals.com/pdfs/fuel_energy.pdf‎

The vehicle(s):
gasification SdKfz 251 Ausf C
Gasification Ganomag ...

How Gasification Works

[abtex]

Which Rifter the one with the Rifts Vehicle Construction two-parter or the one for individual vehicles?

[taalismn]

Which Rifter the one with the Rifts Vehicle Construction two-parter or the one for individual vehicles?

I'll let everybody know as soon as I dig down to those particular volumes this weekend(unless somebody else with a better organized collection beats me to it).

[abtex]

Which Rifter the one with the Rifts Vehicle Construction two-parter or the one for individual vehicles?

I'll let everybody know as soon as I dig down to those particular volumes this weekend (unless somebody else with a better organized collection beats me to it).

Rifter #50 has part one, #51 (52) has the second part.

[taalismn]

Which Rifter the one with the Rifts Vehicle Construction two-parter or the one for individual vehicles?

I'll let everybody know as soon as I dig down to those particular volumes this weekend (unless somebody else with a better organized collection beats me to it).

Rifter #50 has part one, #51 (52) has the second part.

Ninja'ed, by the finest.

[abtex]

I'll let everybody know as soon as I dig down to those particular volumes this weekend (unless somebody else with a better organized collection beats me to it).

Rifter #50 has part one, #51 (52) has the second part.

Ninja'ed, by the finest.

Who?
You can still go Rifter digging. May be go outside and see if it's raining harder that last time.
I did not know that the Rifter Index had been updated, and the forum search helped as well.

[Aramanthus]

Any new vehicles?

[T-Willard]

All right, to clear my head from this weekend's marathon Rifts game, I'll throw up a complete failure in R&D and production. We've been looking at the CS a lot, mainly because I hate magic vehicles since everyone just seems to hand-wave "Oh, it's magic" and magic vehicles annoy the hell out of me. But, I'll give it a try.

TMV-3382 "Skyjammer"

Tolkeen knew war was coming for nearly 20 years. Attempts to negotiate with the CS were fruitless, both sides had idealogical differences that made them completely incompatible at coexisting, military advisors were making the serious mistake of guaranteeing the civilian leaders that a diplomatic resolution could be forced through military action. The biggest problem with a lot of advisors is they look at the narrow picture, and many assume that everyone is rational actors. War has many different causes, and few wars can be pointed at and said "This caused it" with any reality. The Tolkeen CS conflict was such a war. From resources, to idealogy, to decades of propaganda, to military actions to force diplomatic solutions, to just plain overestimating themselves and under-estimating the enemy, war was unavoidable without one side or the other surrendering unconditionally.

During the build-up to the war, Tolkeen needed vehicles that could take on the CS with a hope of winning. Most people looking at the CS consider the CS military a moving junkpile, since products from such vendors as Naurani and Atlantis can match them, but they fail to appreciate that there is a huge difference between a 10 year mercenary and a career CS soldier. With that in mind, the Tolkeen R&D began attempting to produce a suit of magical armor that could match the SAMAS for air superiority.

For the most part air elementals, dragons, and other flight capable supernatural creatures were going to be the backbone of the Tolkeen Air Superiority plan, and that plan had a multitude of supporters, while the idea to produce technowizardry vehicles was scoffed at as "trying to beat Mr. CS Junkman at his own game" with propenents of the idea of technowizardry air superiority often publically humiliatied.

So the Skyjammer project was started in 83 PA, without much funding, without much access to resources, and basically back-burned so that the few influential people who supported TW forces would be placated.

The designers wrote a simple spec-sheet on what they would need, based on 1 to 1 dogfights with SAMAS.

Ground Speed: 60 mph minimum
Leaping: 15 feet high, jet assisted 100 feet high and 200 feet long
Flying: 300 mph, 150 mph combat speed
Altitude: 500 feet
Flight Time: 10 hours of combat flight time
Hieght: <10 feet
Width: 6 feet or less
Length: 6 feet or less
Weapon Systems: Equal to the C-40R, 2 shot minimissile pack
Armor Rating: Class III

It looked simple. The project was mocked even during the "brainstorm" phase by mages claiming that Armor of Ithan, Impervious to Energy, and a simple flight spell, packing a Wilks Laser Rifle, was equal to a SAMAS. (This mistake was in part due to the majority of the 'military command' of Tolkeen having little to no actual formalized military training or experience, as well as not understanding the difference between Standard Operational Procedure and Maximum Performance) Dragons mocked it, considered Armor Rating Class IX creatures with magic, breath weapons, claws, and the like.

Videos available were either CS propaganda or where a CS patrol of 2-4 SAMAS were jumped by overwhelming odds, meaning that out of the gate researchers had a low opinion of the SAMAS.

The first design was little more than a crystal harness with a lightning bolt spell rod and armor of ithan spells. The volunteer pilots (many deserters from the CS who claimed much more experience than they had, if they even had any combat experience) found these agile opponents difficult. The TW "Flight Combat Harness" was produced in low numbers, volunteers (all creatures who claimed hundreds of hours of combat against the CS) were outfitted with it, and they left to intercept known patrol routes of the CS and engage them in combat while observers watched the field trial.

Right here military weaponry enthusiasts will notice that the Tolkeen R&D system had already failed. They were making the data fit their assumptions, which is something that happened even to trained professionals, as well as not looking at the data dispassionately. Those of you familiar with vehicle data sheets from more professional militaries, including Pre-Cataclysm military databases, probably see where this is going to go.

All 22 were engaged and destroyed by SAMAS operators in less than 3 minutes.

Three minutes were all that the "Flight Combat System" lasted, including the 61 seconds that the SAMAS pilots persued fleeing members.

Worse, the local commander broadcast the "fight" from the suit data recorders, where the initial sighting was met with "What the hell is that?" to the laughter of the CS pilots in between their constant combat chatter. This was in 83 PA, when many spell using creatures didn't understand exactly what they were hearing. While the Tolkeen R&D program recorded the initial battle as well as received copies of the CS data, they really didn't understand everything that went wrong was less about the equipment and more about the fact that the users had not trained together, did not know how to use the system, did not operate as a team, and underestimated their foes.

Back to the drawing board. In 84 PA the "Freeflight Mark II" (Freeflight being the name of the project) was created.

This 'armor' used light MDC non-environmental armor, added Armor of Ithan, a lighning bolt thrower, and spell enhanced strength to handle the NG-101 railgun and the ammunition pack. It looked like a suit of Huntsman Armor with crystals glued to it, some hotglue smeared on it, a medallion on the chest, and a carved stick on the shoulder, along with the NG-101. Flight trials showed it could reach up to 350 MPH, and the Freeflight Team took the armor out and held speed trials.

One thing a military and technological designer can tell you is that just because something can go real fast doesn't necessarily mean it should, and the Freeflight Team and its volunteers found out why. At 350 mph the wind both dropped the operators into hypothermia as well as began suffocating them. Eight grew disorientated and were lost in the distance. 2 suits were recovered months later, found up in trees with skeletons still inside the armor. The six remaining were ordered to make a hard left turn.

Where the cross currents ripped the NG-101 out of their arms. But that wasn't the worst, the high speed, high-G turn made them black out.

Eight suits entered. All of them crashed and burned.

It took four more trials before they added a magical pressure sleeve (which crushed the initial users to death upon activation) to compensate. It could fly nap of earth, perform high G turns, and the designers figured it was ready to try "high altitude flight" and added in magical lift to the system. The first six suits equipped and field tested immediately shot upwards and vanished, never to be seen again. The spell was carefully redesigned to have a maximum 'ceiling' of 650 feet, and the next trail was performed.

Where the operators hit the 650 foot mark and slammed into an invisible 'barrier' and were crushed to death. It took mages going up and retrieving the armor to get it back, where it was stuck to mid-air like flypaper. So the spell was reworked, and tried again, but a mistake in the mystical calculations accellerated them to MACH 6.5 and then came to an instant stop, reducing the occupants to jelly. The spell was reworked again, but the spell then just slowly floated them upward to 650 feet where they just bobbed around like bubbles. The next set allowed the 'pilots' to move up and down as well as make turns and do 'normal' power armor-esque flight.

During a test of 20 of these 'armor systems' a passing CS patrol of 4 SAMAS suits saw it and tore into the 20 suits, suffering no casualties while destroying all 20 suits and killing the operators, some of the observers, and two of the technowizard researchers. The worst part was one of the SAMAS pilots laughed the entire thing over his loudspeaker, even as he disappeared into the distance after popping off his flares.

Things were not going well for Project Freeflight.

By this time Project Freeflight was being ridiculed. CS and Triax developers could have told them that this was pretty much par for the course with new technologies, and would have understood that they were making good progress. Not so the Tolkeen R&D establishment, which was mostly just taking existing technowizardry and magical 'technologies' and 'improving' them with advice from Atlantis and other long standing R&D programs.

The Freeflight Program took everything back to the drawing board. (Hint for future researchers: Always back up your data.) They discarded the off the shelf Huntsman Armor and built their own suit, added 'ablative layers' of Armor of Ithan, Breathe Without Air, Impervious to Energy, Superior Invisibility, strength enhancement, two lightning projectors, a 250 PPE battery (that would power armor and weaponry for supposedly 4 hours of combat), Eyes of the Eagle, and Temporal Magic for faster reflexes. The armor was capable of taking 2 direct hits from a Glitterboy main gun, three if there was enough time for the operator to reactivate the armor spells, the lightning projectors were capable of disabling or killing the operator of standard heavy CS body armor in two direct hits, and the enhanced reflexes allowed for operators to deal with the fast and furious pace of combat. It was projected that the armor could stand up to the SAMAS suit in combat.

Irritated with the delays the head of the R&D program was replaced, and a new head researcher took over, who immediately discarded all the previously recorded data as his now-disgraced rival had overseen it and he had 'no interest in details of failure', and the newest suit was pushed through with almost no testing.

The project built fifty suits for testing in 88 PA and immediately gave operators a 3 day crash course training program and sent them out to engage CS forces who were performing field exercises in the area to 'prove that the project was a success under [his] leadership.' The 20 suits of 'advanced technowizard armor' engaged a force of 10 SAMAS apparently just cruising around in circles. This immediately turning into a high-G dogfight where 2 SAMAS were forced to land and fight on foot. Only two Freeflight Operators survived, although one was captured and field executed by the CS forces.

The head of R&D blamed the current researchers for the failures (meanwhile the CS was going over every scrap of combat footage and seeing a very real and very capable suit of TW flying armor that was just used ineffectively and couldn't face armors using Flight Combat Control Systems) and completely discarded everything but the armor itself. Redesigns of the spells resulted in casualties, explosions, and deaths, but eventually new armor spells were designed, the flight spells were adjusted properly, and the armor was ready for another field trial.

The armor could withstand 3 direct hits from a Glitterboy Railgun, 5 if the Armor spells were activated in the correct sequence, it had strength comparable with a Glitterboy, had a fireball launcher on the right shoulder that hit harder that a CS standard plasma rifle, and a lightning thrower on the right arm that could match the firepower of a a particle projection cannon. Field testing took place, along with computer simulation, and the armor was declared a success.

Six thousand of them were crafted over a period of 3 years, and once they were all finished, training of pilots began. Most technowizards and ley-line walkers were not interested in the armor, many of them seeing the armor melt or become covered in blood just looking at them, but there are always volunteers to fight no matter how bad the weapon is. The datasheet showed a suit of TW power armor that was superior to the SAMAS in every way.

Tolkeen Datasheet for TMV 3382
Head: 100 MDC
Main Body: 350 MDC
LEgs: 200 MDC
Arms: 125 MDC
Wings: 125 MDC
Force Field: 100 MDC (3 activations)
PPE Storage: 600
Ground Speed: 90 mph
Leaping: 75 feet high, magical assisted 250 feet high and 500 feet long
Flying: 450 mph, 250 mph combat speed
Altitude: 750 feet
Flight Time: 20 hours of cruising speed, 12 hours of combat flight time
Height: 8 feet
Width: 4.5 feet (8 feet with wings deployed)
Length: 3 feet

Weapon Systems:
Fireball Launcher

• Range: 150 feet
• Damage: 6d6 MD
• Rate of Fire: 2 per round

Lightning Thrower

• Range: 500 feet
• Damage: 3d6 MD
• Rate of Fire: As operator attacks

That was the official datasheet presented to the Tolkeen military.

By this time the CS had just unveiled their new war machine, but the R&D team was convinced that the Freeflight Project was a success. However the R&D director was of the opinion that one SAMAS was the same as the other, and scoffed at all reports of the CS making signifigant upgrades to the venerable old US Army SAMAS as rumors, as he saw it merely sporting cosmetic changes that probably weakened the system all around. He insisted that properly deployed that the Skyjammer (the name he insisted the armor be saddled with) could take on even the new SAMAS suits in a 1:2 ratio and still be capable of combat while mission killing the two CS armors.

The test pilots were replaced after their complaints about the armor, and the new pilots were trained for only a few months before the Tolkeen War began. The Skyjammer Power Armor was deployed against the CS SAMAS teams. Broken into 20 man teams the Skyjammer Corps quickly sped in to attack the CS forces advancing on Tolkeen, setting up forward logistics bases and forward operation bases, and fire bases. The pilots were confident in their TW armor and the spells woven into it, and sped quickly into combat against the CS troops.

Out of 1,200 deployed in the first 24 hours of combat, not one returned. However Air Command insisted that the Skyjammer Armor had achieved up to 1:10 casaulty ratios against the CS air support and insisted that the armor had proven itself in combat. A second wave was ordered on the third day, with orders to engage SAMAS troops wherever found. This was had only 500 troops, divided into teams of 5, and spread out across the front, with orders to attempt to attack rear areas, supply depots, ammunition dumps, and the like.

Forty pilots returned, another 328 returned over the next several days on foot, most of which had no armor.

The recriminations started pouring in.

First of all, the PPE system drained rapidly under high speed flight, as the testing rarely had the armor up for longer than an hour, or doing low speed flight for distance near ley-lines so that observers on TW wing boards could follow along and observe the armor. Under high speed flight with nap of earth manuevering, the PPE batteries drained in under two hours. The crystal that was supposed to change color as power dropped in the PPE reserve was little more than colored glass (it was added to shut the pilots up, and then the actual crystals and the layered spells were decided to be too expensive and too big of a pain in the ass to install, so the glass was left in the suits) Without warning the suit would suddenly completely and totally lose power, which would kick in the emergency systems, which would eject the pilot, destroy the armor, and the pilot would float gently to earth.

Being shot at by CS troops.

Secondly, the CS doctrine appeared to have radically changed. Rather than close in combat that the CS seemed to engage in prior to the war, SAMAS pilots acted more like jet pilots of old, keeping a distance from their opponents and often attacking at maximum range of their weaponry. By the time Skyjammer armors could engage they were heavily damaged and often were suffering a total shield depletion.

Third, the armor apparently had a MASSIVE radar signature that was easily detectable from miles out. While the standard approaching under the invisibility spell was followed, apparently the invisibility didn't count toward radar or the seeking peniads of the missiles that tore so many apart a mile out or further from CS troops. Some of the surviving pilots reporting running face first into CS AA systems and seeing their entire team obliterated in a matter of seconds.

Fourth, the Impervious to Energy seemed to intermix with the lightning spells after a few firings under high stress combat conditions, causing one, the other, or sometimes both to fail. Worst of all, many of the pilots asked "What the HELL were you thinking" as the SAMAS suits used KINETIC weapons, not lasers, meaning that the only thing it seemed to protect from was CS troop ground fire. That is, until they started using their grenade launchers to shoot them down.

Fifth, the fireball launcher was all well and good, but at attack speeds in excess of 200 MPH if the operator fired the fireball launcher the pilot would end up slamming into the fireball himself.

Sixth: All weapons were forward facing, and outstretching one's arm to fire at an opponent on the left or right invariably dislocated the pilot's shoulder, which caused the armor to eject the operator in roughly 50% of the occurances.

Seventh: For an air combat armor, it seemed to lack the most basic anti-missile systems. While the standard doctrine of "Shoot them down" sounded good, missiles fired by the CS seemed to like to go for a rear impact, a top down hit, or explode to the right or left and hit the armor with multiple penetrators. There were no flares, no chaff, no spoofing, no nothing.

Those were bad enough, but pilots reported that they had to rely on their eyes, and there was no targeting system in the armor. While that was perfectly fine for one on one or even two on one battles, the lack of sensor systems and targeting systems the pilots kept losing sight of their opponents, couldn't see incoming missiles, got disoriented during combat manuevers and sometimes crashed into the ground, and worse, the CS pilots seemed to figure out quickly and would let the Skyjammer pilots get behind them, pop smoke or magnesium flares, and let on Skyjammer pilot slam into the other.

Some of the survivors were very vocal in the protections, speed, manueverability, and capability of the armor was vastly overstated, accusing the R&D group of flat out lying about their results.

Regardless of the pilots fears and accusations, the rest of the armors were committed against the CS a few weeks later, with orders to mass attack one of the larger CS air bases.

It resulted in a total loss of all pilots and less than 20 SAMAS suits shot down. Less than a dozen pilots got close enough to even see the air base.

Only 12 returned on foot.

Examination of the Skyjammer revealed the followed real specifications.

Tolkeen Datasheet for TMV 3382
Head: 35 MDC
Main Body: 150 MDC
LEgs: 50 MDC
Arms: 35 MDC
Wings: 15 MDC
Force Field: 50 MDC (3 activations)
PPE Storage: 100 PPE
Ground Speed: 5 mph
Leaping: 25 feet high, magical assisted [DO NOT DO!]
Flying: 450 mph, 50 mph max combat speed
Altitude: 600 feet
Flight Time: 20 hours of cruising speed, 2 hours of combat flight time
Height: 8 feet
Width: 4.5 feet (8 feet with wings deployed)
Length: 3 feet

Weapon Systems:
Fireball Launcher

• Range: 50 feet
• Damage: 5d6 MD
• Rate of Fire: 1 per round

Lightning Thrower

• Range:[/b] 150 feet
• Damage: 2d6 MD
• Rate of Fire: Four per round

Any Skyjammer armors are either hidden somewhere near the battlefields, abandoned in the woods, or in CS custody.

The armor suffered from nepotism, shoddy magical research, forcing fact and exercises to fit expected results, over-estimating the armor's effect, under-estimating the enemy equipment, not involving people who understood military hardware, and ignoring tester feedback.

Had Tolkeen survived the war, they would have discovered that every single problem with the armor had been reported by testers and test-pilots during the development and trainup of the forces. SAMAS armors that faced off against the Skyjammer during testing had their software, firmware, and hardware artificially inhibited, and exercises were designed in such a way that the Skyjammer had the advantage, no matter how unrealistic the scenario was, and only the scenarios where the Skyjammer was victorious were used as baselines.

Additionally the head of R&D was a major opponent of Technowizardry trying to breach the gap between the CS's high tech advantages and a fierce proponent of magic superiority. The head of R&D envisioned the war not breaking out for nearly 10 more years, and often publically discounted the idea of the CS ever actually attacking Tolkeen, feeling that Tolkeen's magic might and obvious profiency would deter the CS from attacking, due to "magic's superiority over technology" that he saw as obvious to anyone who cared to look.

Additionally when the head of R&D took over he immediately fired anyone who didn't have the same belief, including the only members with experience in military operations, discounting the former CS Major who had defected due to falling in love with a DB woman. The Major had 15 years of experience with SAMAS and air operations, and had been at immediate loggerheads with the new head of R&D.

The entire Skyjammer and Freeflight Project was nothing more than an expensive boondoggle that failed to produce anything worthwhile for combat operations, and is a lost footnote of the CS/Tolkeen War.

[taalismn]

Nice concept, excellent presentation, and good execution.

[abtex]

Any new vehicles?

Rumor that I am starting says that taalismn is working on this plane. But we have just have to wait and see what shows up.

[taalismn]

Any new vehicles?

Rumor that I am starting says that taalismn is working on this plane. But we have just have to wait and see what shows up.

[T-Willard]

Right now I can only log in with proxy networks. Sorry.

Till I can get it fixed, I can't really post.

I was using 2 different computers on my home network, and it looks like the Palladium servers listed me under a "BAND IP" and blocked me.

[abtex]

That's not a problem for us. Hope you get it fixed.
maybe Palladium's new site defenses from hacker last week.
Tell them about the problem:
http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=15

[Aramanthus]

Very nice. I am looking forward to seeing more new stuff.

[abtex]

http://www.unusuallocomotion.com/pages/locomotion/changes-around-the-track-i-off-road-locomotion.html

This one rocks:

47 - John B. Lansberry, Woodland, Pennsylvania, took the patent of wheeled tractor and caterpillar that currently operates itself to agriculture and construction. He says his tractor exceeds the limitations imposed by other tractors. Made to measure for powers from 10 to 500 hp. http://www.lansberrytractor.com/

V - FORESTRY VEHICLES

vehicles that pick their own noses with their arm(s), as well as hold or mount weapons. While firing over bush and small trees, around corners.. Carry their payload in the cargo bed and extra weapons, maybe also used as troop carrier. Do logs really look like missiles?

[cosmicfish]

Whenever I play a game like this, I try and find a combat-capable vehicle that can serve as a base of operations for the party - basically a combination RV and command center for a group of 4-8 people, something sufficiently tough to survive a surprise attack long enough for the party to egress and fight "normally". It seems like RIFTS has a few vehicles like this, but none of them are quite right for me - I don't want anything oversized (like the Behemoth) or that is easily stymied by terrain (so CG > hover > tracked > wheeled).

Any suggestions?

[taalismn]

Whenever I play a game like this, I try and find a combat-capable vehicle that can serve as a base of operations for the party - basically a combination RV and command center for a group of 4-8 people, something sufficiently tough to survive a surprise attack long enough for the party to egress and fight "normally". It seems like RIFTS has a few vehicles like this, but none of them are quite right for me - I don't want anything oversized (like the Behemoth) or that is easily stymied by terrain (so CG > hover > tracked > wheeled).

Any suggestions?

Paladin Steel has a few VW Vans and Winnebago-stye vehicles, hover APCs, and some knockoffs of CS APCs and hovertransports, if you don't mind digging through my pages(they're not terribly organized and despite calls by my friends to set up a website or create a linked index, I have yet to get off my lazy fat @$$).

[abtex]

For PS catalog (not updated) start here. then search for "Post 1" goto the second one.

[taalismn]

http://www.unusuallocomotion.com/pages/locomotion/changes-around-the-track-i-off-road-locomotion.html

This one rocks:

47 - John B. Lansberry, Woodland, Pennsylvania, took the patent of wheeled tractor and caterpillar that currently operates itself to agriculture and construction. He says his tractor exceeds the limitations imposed by other tractors. Made to measure for powers from 10 to 500 hp. http://www.lansberrytractor.com/

V - FORESTRY VEHICLES

vehicles that pick their own noses with their arm(s), as well as hold or mount weapons. While firing over bush and small trees, around corners.. Carry their payload in the cargo bed and extra weapons, maybe also used as troop carrier. Do logs really look like missiles?

Ah, nothing sucks than to attack a seemingly defenseless agricultural or industrial operation, and suddenly find yourself being cut to pieces by armored tractors, armed lawnmowers, and melee-capable work lifts....Nobody wants to admit they got beaten nearly to death by the gardening staff.

[abtex]

Would these or at least the one on the left, count as Misc. Vehicles?

[taalismn]

Would these or at least the one on the left, count as Misc. Vehicles?

Pecos Raiders, surely.

[abtex]

Would these or at least the one on the left, count as Misc. Vehicles?

Pecos Raiders, surely.

Found the site the picture came from:
http://madmaxcars.blogspot.com/
and they get crazier and stranger, very...

[taalismn]

Kargami Commuter Car

“Ever get caught in a crosswind while driving one of these things? It’s downright TERRIFYING. Even knowing the car’s designed to ball up around you, there’s several moments of stark raving terror as you’re thrown bucket-over-tea kettle over the landscape. Worse if you’re already clearing the bridge railing and on your way into the river.
Worse yet, the locals who make these cars? THEY CONSIDER IT PART OF THE THRILL OF DRIVING. Every effort I made to suggest safety changes met with blank looks. EVERY time.
Only good thing about it was that after I totalled my rental, and finished wringing out my clothes after the local fishermen pulled me from the drink, the local agency didn’t charge me for damages. They’re that cavalier about these things.
My advice? If you absolutely have to have a native Bakalaponan driver drive you around, ask for a certified paranoid...you may wind up being locked in the back of what amounts to an armored tank, but you’ll be far safer than if you took a ride in one of their paper cabs.”
---Katherine DeSomo, travel correspondant, Go! E-Magazine.

Why anybody on Rifts Earth would build a ‘Golden Age’ vehicle based on the pre-Rifts Rinspeed Presto concept car (http://luckypuppy.bravehost.com/GALLERY/_data/i/upload/2013/04/21/20130421084438-0a2d2ee0-me.jpg), a nonstarter idea for a commuter vehicle with a variable-length frame that could extend from a compact two-seater to a longer four-seater, beggars comprehension. However, when one does a little questioning and discovers that the Kargami is indeed a d-bee import, does the mystery begin to unravel. And when a little research reveals that the Kargami originates from the factories of The Peoples’ Freewheeling Association of Bakalapona(PFAB), a star nation founded by the descendants of the inmates of a planetary insane asylum, is the mystery finally explained and (some)sense restored.
Despite its resemblance to the Rinspeed, the arguably congenitally insane engineers of Bakalapona have taken the Presto concept further. The Kargami has been compared to a ‘clown car in reverse’ in that instead of a horde of people emerging from a small car, we have a small car unFOLDING from a small space. That’s right, FOLD; ‘Kargami’ as in ‘ORIgami’. Through the wonders of advanced materials science and technowizardry, the Kargami is a fully functional automobile made from specially treated paper and plastics that fold.
When not in use, the Kargami can fold for easy storage into a compact cube. For those fearing being crushed inside a suddenly compacting car, the Kargami will not fold up if there is anything living still inside it.
The powerplant, which is the single heaviest(at 75 lbs) component of the Kargami, is a compact technowizardry PPE-Electric battery that can run off PPE/ISP or batteries(including e-clips). The wheels are ‘run flat’ designs powered by either electric motors or direct TK.
The Kargami has a number of vulnerabilities; it is quite fragile, despite it being specially treated against water, the vehicle is vulnerable to long submergence in water, it is particularly susceptible to fire damage, and its light weight incurs handling problems at high speed and in high winds(anything over 25 MPH). Another complaint is that the car comes only in a variety of eye-watering aesthetic-nightmare color schemes, including polka-dots, stripes, and styles described by one knowledgeable Earth scholar as ‘Peter Maxx on serious drugs’. Despite these flaws(especially a tendency to flip over in high winds), the Kargami is one of the more popular vehicles on Bakalapona, and the Bakalaponans are beginning to export the car to offworld markets. Several have appeared on Rifts Earth, courtesy of interdimensional merchants.

Type: PFABakalapona Automotive Engineering ‘Kargami’
Class: Ground Car/Automobile
Crew: 1+1-3 passengers
SDC/Armor by Location:
Main Body 1,300 (equal to 13 MDC)
Windshield 100
Door Windows(2) 60 each
Doors(2) 50 each
Wheels(4) 25 each

Height: 55 inches
Width: 73 inches
Length: 118-147 inches
Folded for storage, the Kargami forms a cube 4 ft on a side
Weight: 800 lbs
Cargo: Glove compartment and 3 ft x2 ft x2 ft trunk space
Powerplant: Hybrid Techno-wizardry/battery-electric.
-TechnoWizardry/PPE----8 PPE/16 ISP per 50 miles of range. Has a capacitor for 50 PPE
-Battery---A single e-clip can power the Kargami for 80 miles(very power efficient)
Speed: (Ground) 113 MPH
Market Cost: 18,000 credits on Bakalapona. Can cost 50%-500% more on other worlds.
Systems of Note:
-Automatic Transmission
-Basic Dashboard Readouts
-Brake and Signal Lights
-Loud Horn (‘Honka-Honka’ is the most popular, though others include ‘foghorn’, ‘battle klaxon’, and ‘dying tuba’)
-Folding Sunroof
Weapons Systems: None
Notes:
*Soaking Hazard----Leaving the car immersed in water more than 24 hours reduces the overall SDC by 30%. The car also tends to wrinkle and the wheels wobble(reduce top speed by 20% and -10% to Pilot Automobile rolls).
*Susceptibility to Fire----Fire does DOUBLE damage to the Kargami’s paper structure.
*High Wind Instability---In winds over 25 MPH(or driving speeds over 80 MPH), the Kargami is -10% to Pilot Automobile rolls. It’s rumored that heading into a strong enough wind, you can actually drive this car backwards while still in forward gear.

Options:
*Wax Paper----Waterproofs the car’s materials, negating the normal corrosion and waterlogging. As an added bonus, the car now floats like a duck, though unless an outboard motor, or other amphibious propulsion means is applied, the Kargami is at the mercy of the water currents. Cost: 15,000 credits.

*Expressive Hood----The front of the car can be articulated to create facial expressions. signaling the driver’s happiness, fear, or rage. Great for letting other drivers know how you’re feeling. Cost: 4,000 credits.

*Readable Signals---Use of the Ludicrous Mage spell ‘Sound Effects’ causes the turn signals to literally spell out in big letters what the car is doing; ‘TURN’, ‘BRAKE’, ‘BACKING UP”. For an additional credits, an area of effect Eyes of Toth spell can be cast in the immediate area, making the turn signals readable in the observer’s native language. Cost: 10,000 credits for the standard Readable Signals, 40,000 credits for the Eyes of Toth signals(spell only applies to the Kargami’s signals, nit anything else).

*Paper Bag Collision Protection System---In a crash or flip-over, the inside of the car fills with airbag-style cushioning, protecting the riders. Occupants take only 1/4 normal damage. Cost: 9,000 credits

*High-Rolla Collision Protection System---This takes the Paper Bag system to the extreme; in event of a flip-over, the ENTIRE CAR reconfigures into a giant wheel-shape, allowing it to roll and bounce clear of a crash. The entire vehicle actually gets a +2 to literally roll with impact. On a successful roll, the occupants take NO damage. Even on an unsuccessful roll, the occupants take 1/3 normal damage. Cost: 40,000 credits

*Dramatic Instability----As if the car normally wasn’t unstable enough, some Bakalaponan drivers modify their cars to be MORE unstable, the better to pull off trick maneuvers. With some clever shifting of the car’s center of gravity, the Kargami can be made to somersault almost on cue, backflip, and roll like an acrobat. -10% to Pilot Automobile rolls when NOT attempting tricks, but +20% WHEN performing stunts(declare at the beginning of the action, not when you’re halfway through a collision with the poultry truck). Cost: 30,000 credits.

Variants:
PFABakalapona Automotive Engineering is reportedly working on a variant using light MDC plastics for greater durability, as well as a pickup truck version, provided they don’t get distracted by other gonzo projects.

[abtex]

Kargami Commuter Car

Different, your fold away car.

....provided they don’t get distracted by other gonzo projects.

What cyber 'muscle' "Rubber band" style powered paper flyers?

[taalismn]

Kargami Commuter Car

Different, your fold away car.

....provided they don’t get distracted by other gonzo projects.

What cyber 'muscle' "Rubber band" style powered paper flyers?

Giant hamster wheels, fruit-shaped vehicles, other Rinspeed concepts(Rinspeed is one of those design firms that seems to come up with so many bizarre ideas you have to wonder if they actually DO anything profitable). The Bakalponans(detailed somewhat in the 'Other Universes' forums under 'Random Interstellar Kingdoms') are also responsible for an FTL system that uses an enormous elastic band stretching across a continent(yes, physically impossible on all counts, but remember, these people are arguably congenitally INSANE ).

[Illendaver]

Just some Ideas that I would like to see worked with if somebody feels up to it. MDC should make these very impressive..... or make them TW Vehicles...
http://www.thebutterflyllc.com/ultralig ... ltralf.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USS_A ... v_1931.jpg

[taalismn]

Just some Ideas that I would like to see worked with if somebody feels up to it. MDC should make these very impressive..... or make them TW Vehicles...
http://www.thebutterflyllc.com/ultralig ... ltralf.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USS_A ... v_1931.jpg

The 'copter could be e-clip or TW-powered, but the real protective armor would be that worn by the pilot.

As for airships?
I think there's a thread long ago devoted to them. As is, traditional gas-bag airships are sitting ducks, unless lofted by some other agency(like a Lyn-Syrial Cloud inside or an Air Elemental. Possibly, you could make the outer shell out of the same MDC plastics as MDC Plainclothes Armor, but MDC protection per swath would be light and overall prohibitively expensive.

[Aramanthus]

Kargami Commuter Car is this a Paladin Steel product?

[MikelAmroni]

I had done some CS vehicles before - here's the link: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=117264&p=2247989 here's the Rhino-Buffalo, my CS line of trucks (dump trucks, semis, etc)

[MikelAmroni]

I also finally added the ISS Urban Pursuit Hover Cycle. Timeline for the bike is 102 PA, so it doesn't invalidate anything in the NG books to say they used it for a while.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=117264&p=2770200#p2770200

[taalismn]

I also finally added the ISS Urban Pursuit Hover Cycle. Timeline for the bike is 102 PA, so it doesn't invalidate anything in the NG books to say they used it for a while.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=117264&p=2770200#p2770200

Batman beware...the Deadboys are hot on your tail.