Ley Line Walkers

[Lao Tzume]

I've never played a magic user before. I've noticed at lower levels their damage output isn't very good at all. It's completely possible I am missing some spells. I want a magic user that doesn't have to rely on conventional weapons to be viable in combat. Any advice?

Another question. What are some spells you consider a must for all magic users?

I appreciate it!

[rat_bastard]

I've never played a magic user before. I've noticed at lower levels their damage output isn't very good at all. It's completely possible I am missing some spells. I want a magic user that doesn't have to rely on conventional weapons to be viable in combat. Any advice?

Another question. What are some spells you consider a must for all magic users?

I appreciate it!

Spells that buff fellow party members. Stop thinking in terms of damage you can do and think in terms of damage your party can do. Also a good TW rifle is generally better than nearly spell for doing damage simply from a action economy standpoint.

[eliakon]

There are lots of great things that a mage can do that a gun can't. Pick some of them.

[rat_bastard]

Spells:

Level one: Blinding flash, Cloud of Smoke, Globe of Daylight
Level two: Befuddle, Fear
Level Three: Armor of Ithan, Invisibility: Lessor, Light Target, Orb of Cold.
Level Four: Blind, Carpet of Adhesion, Deflect (If you or an ally really has an load of P.P.), Magic Net, Ricochet Strike (if you have an ally or can kick ass with a thrown or ranged primitive weapon), Weight of Duty.
Level five: Armor Bizarre, Charm, Featherlight, Horrific illusion, House of glass, Lifeblast, Mental blast, Superhuman Speed, Superhuman Strength
Level Six: Barrage, Ice, Impervious to energy, Power Bolt, Teleport: lesser, Time Slip

[Killer Cyborg]

I've never played a magic user before. I've noticed at lower levels their damage output isn't very good at all. It's completely possible I am missing some spells. I want a magic user that doesn't have to rely on conventional weapons to be viable in combat. Any advice?

Want something different.

[PSI-Lence]

i don't have my magic books with me but a few from memory would be the mystic knights (or white rose faction of them) i think they were immune to energy weapons? or at least resistant and had decent damage from beams they could shoot along with some spell magic (and charge e-clips for the rest of your party if need be)

battle mage i think had spell use but also good physical innate ability's

(can't remember the name of the mages that bonded with some creation? from FoM) nice to have a permanent body guard/attack dog

and techno wizards should be decent since you can make and use magic weapons (also some for your party if they can use them)

magic user's do seem to lack a pure offensive punch that guns do , at least as fast as guns do, though you can set up ambushes and tactic's that you can't do alone using tech

(keep in mind that my mind is rusty and not up on all the most recent changes)

[Shark_Force]

yeah, magic gets to do pretty much everything else really well. damage dealing? they don't do that so well. not without either spending a lot of PPE, or a lot of preparation.

this is not the game where the magic users throw the nuke that makes all the people that can only deal damage look weak, and yet still consider the spell to be one of their least useful ones.

edit: on a side note, there's a world of difference between "viable in combat" and "dealing damage". a simple magic net can remove several enemies from a fight. you're going to be hard-pressed to find any damage-dealing option that can do that at any cost, let alone at such a low cost. impervious to energy turns a life-threatening encounter with half a dozen thugs using pulse laser rifles into a faceroll. a charm spell can turn an enemy into a friend (at least for a while). a force field in the right place can stop a car dead, hurt or kill everyone inside, and possibly even render it unable to run any more (which could either secure your ability to chase it, or escape from it).

and so on. any chump with a laser can make things explode. if you want to do that really well, i recommend you invest in a fully automatic grenade launcher or something like that.

[Lenwen]

I've never played a magic user before. I've noticed at lower levels their damage output isn't very good at all. It's completely possible I am missing some spells. I want a magic user that doesn't have to rely on conventional weapons to be viable in combat. Any advice?

Another question. What are some spells you consider a must for all magic users?

I appreciate it!

a mere 3rd level Ley Line walker can do alotta damage. Straight up damage my friend. Power Bolt (5d6 +2per lvl)

At 3rd level of the caster, (Raw) that becomes .. 15d6+6 damage for Power Bolt. That's 96 MD on a none crit full (albeit lucky dice) roll for damage. Now if he is lucky and hits a crit ..

96x2 = 192mdc ! That is more then enough to slag most Body / Power Armors (or make inoperable by the occupants) At level 3.

Hope this helps

[Damian Magecraft]

I've never played a magic user before. I've noticed at lower levels their damage output isn't very good at all. It's completely possible I am missing some spells. I want a magic user that doesn't have to rely on conventional weapons to be viable in combat. Any advice?

Another question. What are some spells you consider a must for all magic users?

I appreciate it!

a mere 3rd level Ley Line walker can do alotta damage. Straight up damage my friend. Power Bolt (5d6 +2per lvl)

At 3rd level of the caster, (Raw) that becomes .. 15d6+6 damage for Power Bolt. That's 96 MD on a none crit full (albeit lucky dice) roll for damage. Now if he is lucky and hits a crit ..

96x2 = 192mdc ! That is more then enough to slag most Body / Power Armors (or make inoperable by the occupants) At level 3.

Hope this helps

yeah...
I think you are misreading that spell my friend.

[Lenwen]

I've never played a magic user before. I've noticed at lower levels their damage output isn't very good at all. It's completely possible I am missing some spells. I want a magic user that doesn't have to rely on conventional weapons to be viable in combat. Any advice?

Another question. What are some spells you consider a must for all magic users?

I appreciate it!

a mere 3rd level Ley Line walker can do alotta damage. Straight up damage my friend. Power Bolt (5d6 +2per lvl)

At 3rd level of the caster, (Raw) that becomes .. 15d6+6 damage for Power Bolt. That's 96 MD on a none crit full (albeit lucky dice) roll for damage. Now if he is lucky and hits a crit ..

96x2 = 192mdc ! That is more then enough to slag most Body / Power Armors (or make inoperable by the occupants) At level 3.

Hope this helps

yeah...
I think you are misreading that spell my friend.

Nope, It is not miss read. For verification on that please go to Book of Magic pg, 113.

[Damian Magecraft]

I've never played a magic user before. I've noticed at lower levels their damage output isn't very good at all. It's completely possible I am missing some spells. I want a magic user that doesn't have to rely on conventional weapons to be viable in combat. Any advice?

Another question. What are some spells you consider a must for all magic users?

I appreciate it!

a mere 3rd level Ley Line walker can do alotta damage. Straight up damage my friend. Power Bolt (5d6 +2per lvl)

At 3rd level of the caster, (Raw) that becomes .. 15d6+6 damage for Power Bolt. That's 96 MD on a none crit full (albeit lucky dice) roll for damage. Now if he is lucky and hits a crit ..

96x2 = 192mdc ! That is more then enough to slag most Body / Power Armors (or make inoperable by the occupants) At level 3.

Hope this helps

yeah...
I think you are misreading that spell my friend.

Nope, It is not miss read. For verification on that please go to Book of Magic pg, 113.

I am all for interpreting spells to maximum effect but you are taking it too far.
Pretty sure (especially given how other spells function) only +2 scales not the 5d6.

[Lenwen]

I am all for interpreting spells to maximum effect but you are taking it too far.
Pretty sure (especially given how other spells function) only +2 scales not the 5d6.

I completely understand what your saying however as I've already shown, in order for just the +2 to be the scaler damage an not the 5d6 included in the scaler damage the spell damage listed would have to be written like this.

5d6, +2 per level of the caster. (Notice the comma ? In the text based gaming industry, you can not nor should you limit spell magic, via imposing something that is not there i.e. the comma.)

The correct way to scale up the damage for that particular spell, which is listed damage is as follows. 5d6 +2 per level. Is in fact (according to the English language) as follows.

Level 1 - 5d6 +2
Level 2 - 10d6 +4
Level 3 - 15d6 +6.
Level 4 - 20d6 +8.

And so on an so on. I do not interpret a comma where one does in fact not exist and neither will I impose limitations on a spell where 1 does in fact not exist. I've already provided canon sourced verification to refute what other posters have said it being an "editing error" on the part of Palladium by showing multiple instances across multiple types of magic, where the Comma is in fact placed properly so as to intend the follow up damage of +2 as the only scaler magic to be increased per level.

Hope this helps.

[Damian Magecraft]

I am all for interpreting spells to maximum effect but you are taking it too far.
Pretty sure (especially given how other spells function) only +2 scales not the 5d6.

I completely understand what your saying however as I've already shown, in order for just the +2 to be the scaler damage an not the 5d6 included in the scaler damage the spell damage listed would have to be written like this.

5d6, +2 per level of the caster. (Notice the comma ? In the text based gaming industry, you can not nor should you limit spell magic, via imposing something that is not there i.e. the comma.)

The correct way to scale up the damage for that particular spell, which is listed damage is as follows. 5d6 +2 per level. Is in fact (according to the English language) as follows.

Level 1 - 5d6 +2
Level 2 - 10d6 +4
Level 3 - 15d6 +6.
Level 4 - 20d6 +8.

And so on an so on. I do not interpret a comma where one does in fact not exist and neither will I impose limitations on a spell where 1 does in fact not exist. I've already provided canon sourced verification to refute what other posters have said it being an "editing error" on the part of Palladium by showing multiple instances across multiple types of magic, where the Comma is in fact placed properly so as to intend the follow up damage of +2 as the only scaler magic to be increased per level.

Hope this helps.

considering the copy/paste method of printing Palladium uses...
Yeah... no.
And you will be hard pressed to find any GM (My self included) who would allow that.
So telling players who are not playing in a game you personally are GMing to use it in that manner is poor advise.

[Lenwen]

considering the copy/paste method of printing Palladium uses...
Yeah... no.
And you will be hard pressed to find any GM (My self included) who would allow that.

I've already proven that "theory" wrong, via producing multiple cited sources, across multiple different types of magic .

So telling players who are not playing in a game you personally are GMing to use it in that manner is poor advise.

Telling player's who are not playing in a game I personally am GM'ing to use it in that manner is me telling those players an everyone else, do not imply or attempt to weaken a spell where no weakness is known to exist.

If you wish to weaken the magic system you use, by house ruling it any other way, then the actual way its stated (written) that is your call. (And it is in fact a house rule) I prefer to play the magic system damage spells as they are written.

To state its a copy / paste "error" on the part of the editor / creator of the system just because the comma is not there, does not mean to lessen the spells correctly scalled up damage, an then attempt to pass it off as Canon is the way to go. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. In a "text" based gaming system, punctuation, grammar, can and does create the limits an set's the precedence of things like this.

I play the magic system damage listing as they are written, and intended to be played.

[Damian Magecraft]

considering the copy/paste method of printing Palladium uses...
Yeah... no.
And you will be hard pressed to find any GM (My self included) who would allow that.

I've already proven that "theory" wrong, via producing multiple cited sources, across multiple different types of magic .

So telling players who are not playing in a game you personally are GMing to use it in that manner is poor advise.

Telling player's who are not playing in a game I personally am GM'ing to use it in that manner is me telling those players an everyone else, do not imply or attempt to weaken a spell where no weakness is known to exist.

If you wish to weaken the magic system you use, by house ruling it any other way, then the actual way its stated (written) that is your call. (And it is in fact a house rule) I prefer to play the magic system damage spells as they are written.

To state its a copy / paste "error" on the part of the editor / creator of the system just because the comma is not there, does not mean to lessen the spells correctly scalled up damage, an then attempt to pass it off as Canon is the way to go. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. In a "text" based gaming system, punctuation, grammar, can and does create the limits an set's the precedence of things like this.

I play the magic system damage listing as they are written, and intended to be played.

Ok you want an reason why your theory is wrong?
Consider this.
If as you claim the entire thing scales then the +2 is useless and should not exist.
Since additional 5d6 would be sufficient (this is basic game design).
It however does exist.
Ergo obviously only the +2 scales.
Going the grammar route... (since you brought that up as your main reasoning).
Note how they designate Mega-damage
Not as MD, Mega-damage, or as Mega Damage but as M.D.
In Grammar when using the period to shorten words in this manner it is acceptable (and common) to drop any additional punctuation before continuing.
Therefore the +2 is all that scales.
It is not that I am trying to "nerf" the spell or any other spells for that matter (take a good look at my name and title before you try leveling that accusation again) but rather avoiding the excessive imbalance of a spell.

[Lenwen]

Ok you want an reason why your theory is wrong?
Consider this.
If as you claim the entire thing scales then the +2 is useless and should not exist.
Since additional 5d6 would be sufficient (this is basic game design).
It however does exist.
Ergo obviously only the +2 scales.
Going the grammar route... (since you brought that up as your main reasoning).
Note how they designate Mega-damage
Not as MD, Mega-damage, or as Mega Damage but as M.D.
In Grammar when using the period to shorten words in this manner it is acceptable (and common) to drop any additional punctuation before continuing.
Therefore the +2 is all that scales.
It is not that I am trying to "nerf" the spell or any other spells for that matter (take a good look at my name and title before you try leveling that accusation again) but rather avoiding the excessive imbalance of a spell.

And rather then accept the spell's description you are attempting to imply a mistake, where one clearly is not . Thereby attempting to nerf said spell. Thee only way it would not be so, is if Kevin himself came onto the boards / threads, an stated yes it was an "Accident".

Anything other then that happening, (To include the mods of this forum, unless they are Kevin himself) is a house rule, an as such can not be cited as canon. And by that fact, I have given my advice to the Op.

[Damian Magecraft]

Ok you want an reason why your theory is wrong?
Consider this.
If as you claim the entire thing scales then the +2 is useless and should not exist.
Since additional 5d6 would be sufficient (this is basic game design).
It however does exist.
Ergo obviously only the +2 scales.
Going the grammar route... (since you brought that up as your main reasoning).
Note how they designate Mega-damage
Not as MD, Mega-damage, or as Mega Damage but as M.D.
In Grammar when using the period to shorten words in this manner it is acceptable (and common) to drop any additional punctuation before continuing.
Therefore the +2 is all that scales.
It is not that I am trying to "nerf" the spell or any other spells for that matter (take a good look at my name and title before you try leveling that accusation again) but rather avoiding the excessive imbalance of a spell.

And rather then accept the spell's description you are attempting to imply a mistake, where one clearly is not . Thereby attempting to nerf said spell. Thee only way it would not be so, is if Kevin himself came onto the boards / threads, an stated yes it was an "Accident".

Anything other then that happening, (To include the mods of this forum, unless they are Kevin himself) is a house rule, an as such can not be cited as canon. And by that fact, I have given my advice to the Op.

And I have just shown how, through grammar rules and practices, that the interpretation of the +2 is the only scaling variable in the spell; and not through "error" as you are trying to make it out.
The only "error" being made here are your assumptions based on what can best be called a grade school grasp of grammar.

[Lenwen]

And I have just shown how, through grammar rules and practices, that the interpretation of the +2 is the only scaling variable in the spell; and not through "error" as you are trying to make it out.
The only "error" being made here are your assumptions based on what can best be called a grade school grasp of grammar.

I am sorry, but you have done nothing of the sort. Reread how it correctly scales up, in my earlier post please. According the the English language.

5d6 +2 per level scales up to 10d6 +4. For the next level.

5d6, +2 per level clearly shows the only modified damage that increases per level is the +2. The -----> , < ----- is the end all be all of the entirety of the increased damage per level. And that is a fact.

Anything other then I've stated Kevin himself coming on the threads, an stating its a mistake on his part, is a house rule. As I've pointed out multiple times. You may ignore the English language or the grammar as you wish, but anything other then the two forms I've (for the second time) presented directly to you, its a house rule.

It was my wife, who ironically showed me this. She is a teacher and that is the only reason I even decided to look further into the discussion we had yesterday about this very thing.

[jaymz]

And I have just shown how, through grammar rules and practices, that the interpretation of the +2 is the only scaling variable in the spell; and not through "error" as you are trying to make it out.
The only "error" being made here are your assumptions based on what can best be called a grade school grasp of grammar.

I am sorry, but you have done nothing of the sort. Reread how it correctly scales up, in my earlier post please. According the the English language.

5d6 +2 per level scales up to 10d6 +4. For the next level.

5d6, +2 per level clearly shows the only modified damage that increases per level is the +2. The -----> , < ----- is the end all be all of the entirety of the increased damage per level. And that is a fact.

Anything other then I've stated Kevin himself coming on the threads, an stating its a mistake on his part, is a house rule. As I've pointed out multiple times. You may ignore the English language or the grammar as you wish, but anything other then the two forms I've (for the second time) presented directly to you, its a house rule.

It was my wife, who ironically showed me this. She is a teacher and that is the only reason I even decided to look further into the discussion we had yesterday about this very thing.

Sorry Len but the fact the die damage and the +2 are separated by the M.D. makes the +2 the part that scales, otherwise, grammatically speaking it would be 5d6+2 M.D. per level NOT 5d6 M.D. +2 per level.

Basic grammar man, basic grammar.

As for this thread since it is looking to be hijacked....

You want damage dealing magic.....best bet is probably a Mystic Knight or if you can get access to it a Combat Mage from Merc Adventures.

Magic in Rifts, while it CAN be the boomstick is not meant to be THE boomstick as it can be in say D&D. It is MUCH more versatile a tool than being excellent at combat.

[smashed]

Except it's not straight forward English. It's mix between computational operators, English, and RPG jargon. When you have computational operators involved you need to take each statement and resolve them before applying the operator.

In the case of power bolt it reads 5d6 + 2 per level. Which is RPG jargon, operator, and English. Computational logic dictates you resolve the it by determining the 5d6, then determining the 2 per level, and finally applying the operator.

And of the actual topic, there are not a lot of good options, most spells either scale by level, or by PPE cost to get comparable damage. If you want a character that doesn't rely on tech your best options are using non damage spells to assist your party and waiting until you have a few levels under your belt before using a lot of damage spells, using a TW weapon, or seeing if your GM will allow something custom TW or magical that has a similar output to a tech weapon.

[Killer Cyborg]

Unless anybody other than Lenwen thinks that the 5d6 is per level, then I think we can safely drop the subject and maybe get back on task.

[Damian Magecraft]

You want damage dealing magic.....best bet is probably a Mystic Knight or if you can get access to it a Combat Mage from Merc Adventures.

Magic in Rifts, while it CAN be the boomstick is not meant to be THE boomstick as it can be in say D&D. It is MUCH more versatile a tool than being excellent at combat.

Or to put it another way...
In Palladium there are no Magic "I win" spells.
There are however a good handful of saveless (or ridiculously high save) spells.

Throwing Stones is always a good offensive spell.

[Nightmask]

Unless anybody other than Lenwen thinks that the 5d6 is per level, then I think we can safely drop the subject and maybe get back on task.

I think we're in agreement on that.

[Kagashi]

Combat Magic in Merc Adventures. Superhuman Agility, gives you auto dodge...pretty cool.

Personally, I consider Combat Magic just another list of Invocations. Also, the PF2 Mysteries of Magic has some cool lower level spells that translate point for point in to MD.

I also like Electric Arc, low damage per shot, but its prolly the most PPE efficient damage spell out there.

[eliakon]

Combat Magic in Merc Adventures. Superhuman Agility, gives you auto dodge...pretty cool.

Personally, I consider Combat Magic just another list of Invocations. Also, the PF2 Mysteries of Magic has some cool lower level spells that translate point for point in to MD.

I also like Electric Arc, low damage per shot, but its prolly the most PPE efficient damage spell out there.

My take away form the description of Combat Magic is that while any mage can learn it, it has a stigma to it. This is somewhat like Necromancy which most mages can learn (albeit at x2 cost) but most choose not to because of its stigma.

[flatline]

Combat Magic in Merc Adventures. Superhuman Agility, gives you auto dodge...pretty cool.

Personally, I consider Combat Magic just another list of Invocations. Also, the PF2 Mysteries of Magic has some cool lower level spells that translate point for point in to MD.

I also like Electric Arc, low damage per shot, but its prolly the most PPE efficient damage spell out there.

My take away form the description of Combat Magic is that while any mage can learn it, it has a stigma to it.

It's my understanding that that is how it is described in the book, but what sense does that make? Is there a stigma associated with all the other combat oriented spells in the BoM?

--flatline

[eliakon]

Combat Magic in Merc Adventures. Superhuman Agility, gives you auto dodge...pretty cool.

Personally, I consider Combat Magic just another list of Invocations. Also, the PF2 Mysteries of Magic has some cool lower level spells that translate point for point in to MD.

I also like Electric Arc, low damage per shot, but its prolly the most PPE efficient damage spell out there.

My take away form the description of Combat Magic is that while any mage can learn it, it has a stigma to it.

It's my understanding that that is how it is described in the book, but what sense does that make? Is there a stigma associated with all the other combat oriented spells in the BoM?

--flatline

No. though there are lots of possible reasons. RAW we just know it is (probably to both maintain game balance, and make combat mages special). The actual reason is not specified exactly. Perhaps the spells are 'cruder' perhaps they are obscene *shrugs* MOST of the restrictions on Palladiums magic already are not logical, so I don't expect this to be any different.

[Kagashi]

Combat Magic in Merc Adventures. Superhuman Agility, gives you auto dodge...pretty cool.

Personally, I consider Combat Magic just another list of Invocations. Also, the PF2 Mysteries of Magic has some cool lower level spells that translate point for point in to MD.

I also like Electric Arc, low damage per shot, but its prolly the most PPE efficient damage spell out there.

My take away form the description of Combat Magic is that while any mage can learn it, it has a stigma to it.

It's my understanding that that is how it is described in the book, but what sense does that make? Is there a stigma associated with all the other combat oriented spells in the BoM?

--flatline

No. though there are lots of possible reasons. RAW we just know it is (probably to both maintain game balance, and make combat mages special). The actual reason is not specified exactly. Perhaps the spells are 'cruder' perhaps they are obscene *shrugs* MOST of the restrictions on Palladiums magic already are not logical, so I don't expect this to be any different.

"Look at that combat mage over there casting Superhuman Agility...does he have to move his hand so fast and in that motion? Those guys are just gross and weird."

[Kagashi]

Combat Magic in Merc Adventures. Superhuman Agility, gives you auto dodge...pretty cool.

Personally, I consider Combat Magic just another list of Invocations. Also, the PF2 Mysteries of Magic has some cool lower level spells that translate point for point in to MD.

I also like Electric Arc, low damage per shot, but its prolly the most PPE efficient damage spell out there.

My take away form the description of Combat Magic is that while any mage can learn it, it has a stigma to it.

It's my understanding that that is how it is described in the book, but what sense does that make? Is there a stigma associated with all the other combat oriented spells in the BoM?

--flatline

Agreed flatline. Who wouldn't want to learn cheap PPE spells that mega dealt damage quickly? It's the same train of thought that Brodkil *love* cybernetics. What Brodkil would be looking at a cybernetic arm and go, "Man, I really want that shiny arm! It has less strength than I have naturally and Id have to spend money to repair it unlike my natural arm. Oh yeah, it would prevent me from turning naturally invisible too! Im totally getting that! I dont know why...I cant help myself...but I...I...just....LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!"

It just doesnt make sense as to why the standard Ley Line Walker or even combat oriented magic class like Mystic Knights and Battle Magi wouldnt think those spells are just flat out cool.

[rat_bastard]

Spells:

Level one: Blinding flash, Cloud of Smoke, Globe of Daylight
Level two: Befuddle, Fear
Level Three: Armor of Ithan, Invisibility: Lessor, Light Target, Orb of Cold.
Level Four: Blind, Carpet of Adhesion, Deflect (If you or an ally really has an load of P.P.), Magic Net, Ricochet Strike (if you have an ally or can kick ass with a thrown or ranged primitive weapon), Weight of Duty.
Level five: Armor Bizarre, Charm, Featherlight, Horrific illusion, House of glass, Lifeblast, Mental blast, Superhuman Speed, Superhuman Strength
Level Six: Barrage, Ice, Impervious to energy, Power Bolt, Teleport: lesser, Time Slip
Level Seven: Agony, Ballistic Fire, Invisibility: Superior, Invulnerability, Life Drain, Light Blade (If you are skilled in swords), Mental Shock, Sonic Blast.
Level Eight: Fire Globe, Invincible Armor, Lifeward, Luck Curse, Magic Adrenal Rush, Shockwave, Wall of Wind, Wisps of confusion.
Level Nine: Aura of Doom, Desiccate the supernatural, Speed of the Snail, Wall of defense.
Level Ten: Deathword, Giant, Magic warrior, Purge Other, Reality flux, Speed Weapon, Summon Shadow Beast.
Level Eleven: Bottomless Pit, Create Mummy, Create Magic Scroll, Disharmonize, Firequake, Mindshatter.
Level Twelve: Create Amulet, Heavy Air, Ironwood, Metamorphosis: Mist, Soultwist, Timehole.
Level thirteen: Restore Life, Sanctum, Summon and control storm, Talisman.
Level fourteen: Restoration.

You may notice that most of the spells I chose don't do much or any damage, thats because as a spellcaster you should be looking at doing actual damage as secondary to the goal of screwing over your opponents and making your allies more badass. Your buddy with the Wilk's Pulse Laser is not more powerful than you, all he is proving is he can pull a trigger. Big freaking deal, you can shunt your opponent into a whole different dimension. Forget about coming up with a cost effective way to cast annihilate, annihilate is for people who lack vision. Wrack them with agony so they can do nothing while lesser men burn through their armor and kill them, protect your allies from costly repairs by protecting them with cheap armoring spells or make an entire squad of the enemy cow in fear as they realize their laser rifles might as well be bouquets of tulips for all the good they will do against your mages.

If you must do damage as a mage the real secret is to be a really good swordsman and hack your enemies to death with a good TW blade, but honestly its more effective to disable an opponent with a spell while the plebs do the actual damage.

[rat_bastard]

From Combat Magic:
Level one: Stumble
Level four: Starburst
Level five: Superhuman Agility
Level six: Full Throttle, Invisibility to sensors, Stunblast
Level seven: Stunblast, Fighting Spirit, Mystic Invisibility, Spy Eye
Level eight: Electromagnetic attack, Engine Flame out

[Damian Magecraft]

best rule of thumb when picking spells is to try and get at least
One offensive, One Defensive, One escape, and One utility spell from each level (If at all possible).
This will give you the most well rounded spell caster.

[flatline]

It's totally possible to dish out damage as a magic user, but damage is fungible so if you can do the same damage without spending your precious PPE, it seems wise to save your PPE for the effects that you don't have a substitute for.

As a magic user, I usually look to negate an advantage of the enemy or give my allies some advantage over the enemy. If I can stack the deck in favor of my allies, then I've done my job. I'm a big fan of offensive spells, but I don't actually want to be the one casting them. I'd much prefer that my allies be casting them via talismans that I've supplied to them while I cast game changing spells that are likely a higher level than Talisman can accommodate.

If I'm in a game where everyone is expected to be a combat monster, I probably won't be playing a spell caster 'cuz that's just not how they shine. I'd probably reach for super powers or races with strong supernatural abilities. But that's just me.

--flatline

[Shark_Force]

there are also some spells that look like they're for offence, but are much better used for defence.

for example, frost blade. grants you a parry attempt against energy blasts. same with spinning blades... sure, you *could* send the blades at someone (and they do respectable damage, i'm not saying that they don't)... but i for one would rather let them deflect a railgun burst, or a mini-missile.

[flatline]

there are also some spells that look like they're for offence, but are much better used for defence.

for example, frost blade. grants you a parry attempt against energy blasts. same with spinning blades... sure, you *could* send the blades at someone (and they do respectable damage, i'm not saying that they don't)... but i for one would rather let them deflect a railgun burst, or a mini-missile.

Similarly, some defensive spells have excellent offensive uses. Energy Field, for example, is great for trapping or separating your enemies or for causing high speed collisions (enemy vehicle + Energy Field).

--flatline

[jaymz]

I am partial to the spell immobilize, carpet of adhesion and magic net, all effective crowd control spells

[kaid]

One thing I would recommend is if you really want a really damage oriented spell caster warlocks or elemental spirit shaman which are roughly the same thing are probably the best blaster oriented spell caster currently in rifts.

They gain access to the scaling damage spells like call lightning/fireball at earlier levels so they only cost 1 attack to cast and tend to be significantly more efficient often paying half the normal cost for their attack spells. For a LLW I would rarely try to use my spell magic as my main source of damage. I would tend to focus my spells on utility/defense with a few attack spells here and there but I tend to use normal weapons or TW weapons as my offensive punch. Having an amulet or scroll for some higher damage higher level emergency spells is useful as well.

But when I want to play a burner mage that just burninates the country side and who some people call Tim you really want a warlock.

[Lao Tzume]

Thanks everyone for the replies! Sorry for the late reply. Busy weekend!

This changed my outlook on mages for the better. I really appreciate it! I'm also glad it could foster some discussion as well.

Thanks again!

[PSI-Lence]

i recently got south america 2 and looking forward to rolling up a few line maker mages , though they do seem pretty limited any that could take permanence and had a little time could set up impressive attack/defence chain reaction, though i don't see them being great in straight up combat unless just summoning a creature

[Shark_Force]

i recently got south america 2 and looking forward to rolling up a few line maker mages , though they do seem pretty limited any that could take permanence and had a little time could set up impressive attack/defence chain reaction, though i don't see them being great in straight up combat unless just summoning a creature

you can prepare in advance small mats that you can just roll out with the pattern on them, iirc. you'd still probably have to burn a single action at the start setting it up, but that should still considerably improve your setup time.

that said, if you can put a pattern onto a mat, you could probably also fit one onto a suit of armour (a smaller one), and if you decide to carry a shield you could likely have another pattern available there. if you own a vehicle (that isn't a motorcycle or similar), it's likely there will at least be enough of a flat surface for some pre-emptive patterns there as well. and some patterns would actually go onto curved objects anyways... like the one that enchants weapons temporarily.

plus of course, as with most any other type of mage (except for biomancers, really), you can always just pick up a laser rifle and be just as good in combat as any other person that doesn't have power armour or similar.

[kaid]

i recently got south america 2 and looking forward to rolling up a few line maker mages , though they do seem pretty limited any that could take permanence and had a little time could set up impressive attack/defence chain reaction, though i don't see them being great in straight up combat unless just summoning a creature

you can prepare in advance small mats that you can just roll out with the pattern on them, iirc. you'd still probably have to burn a single action at the start setting it up, but that should still considerably improve your setup time.

that said, if you can put a pattern onto a mat, you could probably also fit one onto a suit of armour (a smaller one), and if you decide to carry a shield you could likely have another pattern available there. if you own a vehicle (that isn't a motorcycle or similar), it's likely there will at least be enough of a flat surface for some pre-emptive patterns there as well. and some patterns would actually go onto curved objects anyways... like the one that enchants weapons temporarily.

plus of course, as with most any other type of mage (except for biomancers, really), you can always just pick up a laser rifle and be just as good in combat as any other person that doesn't have power armour or similar.

Some of the patterns also can be put onto armor it actually specifically mentions this for certain of the powers. Not all of them can but at least a few are said to be things that you can inscribe on armor. The line makers are interesting type of caster. Very good for defensive settings where they can force the enemy to come at them and setting up ambushes but has a bit more trouble reacting to trouble which balances them out very nicely. Group mages love them as they have one of the slicker and easier ways for storing at least moderate amounts of PPE for later use.


Hehe biomancers pick up their magic bio energy bow (if they are a jungle elf) or one of their various bioengineered weapons if lemurian so plenty of non PPE using damage even for the tree huggiest of casters.

[Shark_Force]

funny thing with line makers, is that invocation casters can potentially learn a limited number of line magic designs (i believe it's 2, but it might only be 1). that canteen of PPE is probably one of the most commonly requested spells for those who get the opportunity to learn one

[Nightmask]

funny thing with line makers, is that invocation casters can potentially learn a limited number of line magic designs (i believe it's 2, but it might only be 1). that canteen of PPE is probably one of the most commonly requested spells for those who get the opportunity to learn one

Probably because 'Make your own Ley Line' isn't something that even an actual high level Nazcan Line Maker has much chance of learning let alone be made available to a member of a different class. You could make some scary nexus points or even your own super-nexus in time.

[kaid]

funny thing with line makers, is that invocation casters can potentially learn a limited number of line magic designs (i believe it's 2, but it might only be 1). that canteen of PPE is probably one of the most commonly requested spells for those who get the opportunity to learn one

I have never yet seen a normal LLW successfully wheedle that spell from a GM but not for the lack of trying.

[Shark_Force]

funny thing with line makers, is that invocation casters can potentially learn a limited number of line magic designs (i believe it's 2, but it might only be 1). that canteen of PPE is probably one of the most commonly requested spells for those who get the opportunity to learn one

Probably because 'Make your own Ley Line' isn't something that even an actual high level Nazcan Line Maker has much chance of learning let alone be made available to a member of a different class. You could make some scary nexus points or even your own super-nexus in time.

eh, i wouldn't have gotten excited about the "make your own ley line" thing.

if you're strong enough to defend the ley line (nexus) you're going to make, you're probably also strong enough (or close to it) to take over a ley line (nexus) from someone else anyways. if you're not that strong, well, have fun making a nexus for someone else.

[flatline]

funny thing with line makers, is that invocation casters can potentially learn a limited number of line magic designs (i believe it's 2, but it might only be 1). that canteen of PPE is probably one of the most commonly requested spells for those who get the opportunity to learn one

Probably because 'Make your own Ley Line' isn't something that even an actual high level Nazcan Line Maker has much chance of learning let alone be made available to a member of a different class. You could make some scary nexus points or even your own super-nexus in time.

eh, i wouldn't have gotten excited about the "make your own ley line" thing.

if you're strong enough to defend the ley line (nexus) you're going to make, you're probably also strong enough (or close to it) to take over a ley line (nexus) from someone else anyways. if you're not that strong, well, have fun making a nexus for someone else.

If you find an uninhabited dimension and create ley lines there, then you don't have to be strong enough to defend them.

--flatline

[Shark_Force]

uninhabited dimensions are more than likely quite a bit rarer and harder for you to find than a ley line which has a section that is not presently in use. if you're not too picky about other benefits of location, you can probably even find a nexus that isn't in constant use (you might have some competition if you show up for midnight specifically, but even groups that claim a nexus likely don't post an awful lot of armed guards or have a fortress around it in most cases).

the spell is super-important for the nazcans because they decided their specific plot of land was of greatest importance to them. which is pretty much the only reason to decide to learn that spell; there is a specific spot that you are attached to for arbitrary reasons, and you absolutely must have ley lines there.

frankly, considering the only sort of people that fit the criteria (earned the gratitude of the line makers *and* want to actually learn the spells to create or extend ley lines) are probably going to use it for the benefit of the line makers anyways, i think it might actually be granted more often than we would think

[PSI-Lence]

i know at least a few (line bolt i think was one?) say they need to be in the ground near a ley line and from what i remember that was one of the more offensive 'spells' though even printed on rugs or whatever means you need to carry a few of them at least, or pick it up and run from place to place while under fire

though setting them up in an ambush line makers seem deadly especially with permanence and the spell that chains other effects to go off after the first (for guarding a small area or escape route have a wall spell trigger when an enemy enters, if the wall is destroyed that triggers the MDC animal spell to activate...the activation of that spell would trigger a wall right behind it as well etc etc, at least if i read/remember that right)

and still trying to think of any race that can be a spell caster (or any spells) that are immune to physical attacks? as a mystic knight of that race may not be very strong damage wise not much could hurt them being a great 'tank'

[Shark_Force]

the traditional shameless cheese combo is a scarecrow mystic knight, actually.

[PSI-Lence]

scarecrow? don't recall ever seeing them, though i think even for an NPC i'd want something that was still alive and i tend to still use player races even for npc's and i doubt a scarecrow would be ... are they in the conversion book? or the palladium fantasy books?