Sleeping in power armour

[cyberdon]

I like to think that if you do, you'll be fatigued the next day.

Anyone able to share their house rules or ideas on this?

[glitterboy2098]

iirc, isn't there official rules on this? for staying you powered armor 24/7..

[Icefalcon]

I don't allow it. For the most part, it is a lot like sleeping standing up. It is not at all comfortable for the pilot. If someone did, I would impose a -20% to all skills and -2 everything else (cumulative per night slept in it).

[taalismn]

Well, the Siege on Tolkeen fanfic in the Rifter makes mention of a septic tank system in the SAMAS, but Rifter can be considered noncanon for such things.
Truth be, you'd have serious joint cramps, semi-conscious claustrophobia, and, if you have aforementioned waste management system, probably a burning case of diaper rash by morning.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

I want to say there are very specific rules answering exactly this question in one of the books, but I can't recall which one and I might just be thinking of a different game system entirely.

I do know that if you look on page 71 of the RUE in the Glitterboy text, there is info on how long a pilot can stay within the armor without penalty. It's actually quite a long time. That's specifically for the GB, though, which is quite large for a power armor and likely a bit roomier on the inside than most other suits.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I don't allow it. For the most part, it is a lot like sleeping standing up. It is not at all comfortable for the pilot. If someone did, I would impose a -20% to all skills and -2 everything else (cumulative per night slept in it).

It could be done but its not comfortable, but then brings up question about the weapon systems going off, but I do agree with the penalties.

[Snake Eyes]

See pg 71 of RUE for penalties (note, this deals with the Glitter Boy).......i would use this guideline for any power armor

[nilgravity]

iirc, isn't there official rules on this? for staying you powered armor 24/7..

RMB just says you can't stay in power armor more than x hours. My crazy would use this rule to stalk power armor pilots (specifically glitter boy) and snipe them when they got out. I became rich pretty quick with that character.

[taalismn]

I don't allow it. For the most part, it is a lot like sleeping standing up. It is not at all comfortable for the pilot. If someone did, I would impose a -20% to all skills and -2 everything else (cumulative per night slept in it).

It could be done but its not comfortable, but then brings up question about the weapon systems going off, but I do agree with the penalties.

Not to mention the hazards of walking in your sleep.
Do power armors have parking brakes?

[Zamion138]

If they laid down in the armor not standing and shut down the weapons and movement i dont think it would accidently go off or give a sleeping stand up problem......still un comfy but as anyone whos slept in the bath tub covered in their own vomit can tell you it is do abale.....still uncomffy.
The minus 20% to skills seems fair for at least the first few hours of the day till they work out the joints and all.

[Pepsi Jedi]

iirc, isn't there official rules on this? for staying you powered armor 24/7..

RMB just says you can't stay in power armor more than x hours. My crazy would use this rule to stalk power armor pilots (specifically glitter boy) and snipe them when they got out. I became rich pretty quick with that character.

That's the thing, that's pretty much exactly what snipers would do. Wait till someone takes off their PA or even EVA and pull the trigger on their silent laser rifle with the 'sound generator' turned off. The guys head is a red mist.

In fact, I know it's not cannon, but the article in the rifter on the CS TAG has fiction that specifically outlines this method of sniping.

Noone can stay in armor forever. If nothing else you'd start getting pressure sores and all sorts of scurvy type skin things and what not. If memory serves, it might be Dino swamp that talks about it in 'canon' but I don't have the book beside me.

[nilgravity]

Well the nasty part was using the Crazy's telescopic vision and lack of a need for sleep

[Giant2005]

Different people have different abilities to sleep. I'm sure a military man would have a much easier time sleeping in all kinds of circumstances but for common folk such as myself, it would be impossible.
I have tried sleeping in the chair of a car, even while drunk it was more like closing my eyes and patiently waiting for dawn, than it was sleeping.

[Pepsi Jedi]

One of the two Dino books have very light MDC Cloth BDU's.

Sleeping in armor.. just.. ugg. Wearing it just for combat that stuff is going to get funky inside ASAP. Trying to actually live inside of it and not get out. You'd be a itchy scratchy nasty mess in a week. Power armor would likely lead to muscle atrophy as well.

[slade the sniper]

-20% seems about right, but not really a per night thing...maybe -20% for the first few days, then -25% afterward. You would be amazed what you can get used to when you have no choice...

-STS

[say652]

If the pilot was a partial conversion borg or a light Japanese borg I.E., mansized and able to use power armor, I wouldn't see a problem but for a normal human to do so results in muscle atrophy and a cumulative skill and attack negative.

[kaid]

Well, the Siege on Tolkeen fanfic in the Rifter makes mention of a septic tank system in the SAMAS, but Rifter can be considered noncanon for such things.
Truth be, you'd have serious joint cramps, semi-conscious claustrophobia, and, if you have aforementioned waste management system, probably a burning case of diaper rash by morning.

I would assume most power armor or the flight suite you wear when using it has space suite type pluggins for bodily functions. Cannot really expect somebody totally sealed in a suite like that to go all day without having to pee and taking it off in combat conditions is not a great idea. Its not like a tank where you can carry the handy jug with you.

I believe I have seen in one of the rifts books where it talks about downsides of staying buttoned up in power armor for an extended period of time.

[say652]

according to page 218 from the origanol Rifts corebook, prolonged activity 3 weeks or more TEMPORARILY reduces PS,PP, and SPD by 1d4 points. so a night or two shouldn't make a difference.

[flatline]

It would suck, but, as already pointed out, you can put up with anything if your life depends on it. I would assign penalties for fatigue, soreness, and stiff muscles. Same for EBA.

--flatline

[Levi]

I'm not comfortable sleeping in anything more than boxers. No way I could survive more that a couple days sleeping in any type of armor. Even the toughest person who can learn to sleep in uncomfortable places will eventually start suffering from sleeping in armor.

[say652]

I slept in a truck wearing kevlar chaps, 3 sweatshirts, workboots and a hardhat,safety glasses and a hivis vest, for years. Real life kinda works against this Princess and the Pea argument.

[keir451]

I'd follow the GB rules and start imposing penalties for every day you go w/out sleep. I've done several days of little to no sleep at times recently and it gets scary when you start nodding off at the wheel when driving or falling asleep while taking an important test.

[glitterboy2098]

I slept in a truck wearing kevlar chaps, 3 sweatshirts, workboots and a hardhat,safety glasses and a hivis vest, for years. Real life kinda works against this Princess and the Pea argument.

the notes for Glitterboy's is less 'it's uncomfortable', and more "this suit amplifies the person's movements, wear it too long and your muscles atrophy from lack of proper exercise"

sleeping in a suit of powered armor would be fairly uncomfortable more so than sleeping in full combat gear or construction safety gear, but like those you could do it. your main limit would be hygeine.. at some point, your going to have to get out. dried sweat and the material of the suit rubbing things would cause rashes and sores, eventually the suit will stink so bad even the ability to get used to something will fail, and you'll have to deal with the side effects of using the toilet.. even if you have catheters and recyclers, you'll have to get out and clean off at some point or you'll have major health issues.

[say652]

agreed 48 hours in gear and you smeel like a wet dogs butthole.

[Pepsi Jedi]

The thing is, GB's are not 'standard' power armor. They're essentially very small robot vehicles. At best they're hybrid between PA and Robot Vehicles.

It's the difference between saying "I can sleep in a Very small Smart car" and "I can sleep in a padded medieval suit of armor." Personally I "Could" sleep in a smart car, in theory, but having dozens if not 100s of pounds of power armor around me, I can't imagine I could sleep unless I was just so far into exhaustion that I pass out. I don't even sleep well in tents or sleeping bags or even strange beds.

So if I were making rules and what not, I couldn't use the GB as a baseline, as it's either at the apex of power armor in size or the nadir of robot vehicles.

[Giant2005]

The thing is, modern troopers sleep inside some fairly heavy armor all the time. This includes helmet, vest, various neck, side, crotch, shoulder and thigh guards, 6-12 magazines of ammo, possibly some grenades, and usually a half a dozen other things, like knives, flashlights, bundles of 550 cord, radios, night vision, etc. Many of them didn't even lay their rifles aside either, they just laid whatever it was across their chest (some clutching the weapon...which was creepy as all get out) and settled in. I watched these guys come in from 8-12 hours of kicking doors in at 3AM, flop down on solid concrete, sleep like a baby for 4-5 hours, and then go right back out and do it again without any obvious signs of fatigue. To avoid stink, they used baby wipe baths and deodorant. To avoid coming apart, they got cycled in and out of that duty fairly commonly.

Astronauts went on excursions to the moon and back, and many times didn't have room enough to shuck their suits for days at a time. Suits that, other than the bulbous helmets, really didn't come with a lot of room to flex in.

Really, I would apply a penalty, but not on the first night, and not even a serious penalty at first. Call is like -5% after the second night, -15%, the thirst, -25% thee fourth, and so on. For penalties, maybe a -1 cumulative after the first night. This stuff is made out of supposedly space age materials using design concepts we aren't savvy about, and are intended to see use as NBC suits for several days at a time, and that is before we think about such things as power suits. Most have built in environmental control units, not AC unit and heaters, but devices intended to maintain a reasonable climate internally under even strenuous activities. Even if they aren't 100% comfortable, they are generally not that bad compared to other options really.

I would have to insist the Glitterboy pilot laid his armor down though, and that he found a way to be at least realistically flat. Being restrained to a sitting position isn't that bad, but only if you are laid out in such a way that you are still facing more or less upwards.

None of those real life examples apply to power armour though... I would allow sleeping in EBA as per your examples without too much hassle but a power armour is a completely different monster.
Even if I was just another character in the game, I wouldn't allow one of my allies to sleep in PA - the risk of him rolling over in the middle of the night and crushing me to death simply isn't worth the extra protection he might gain.

[Pepsi Jedi]

The thing is, modern troopers sleep inside some fairly heavy armor all the time. This includes helmet, vest, various neck, side, crotch, shoulder and thigh guards, 6-12 magazines of ammo, possibly some grenades, and usually a half a dozen other things, like knives, flashlights, bundles of 550 cord, radios, night vision, etc. Many of them didn't even lay their rifles aside either, they just laid whatever it was across their chest (some clutching the weapon...which was creepy as all get out) and settled in. I watched these guys come in from 8-12 hours of kicking doors in at 3AM, flop down on solid concrete, sleep like a baby for 4-5 hours, and then go right back out and do it again without any obvious signs of fatigue. To avoid stink, they used baby wipe baths and deodorant. To avoid coming apart, they got cycled in and out of that duty fairly commonly.

Astronauts went on excursions to the moon and back, and many times didn't have room enough to shuck their suits for days at a time. Suits that, other than the bulbous helmets, really didn't come with a lot of room to flex in.

Really, I would apply a penalty, but not on the first night, and not even a serious penalty at first. Call is like -5% after the second night, -15%, the thirst, -25% thee fourth, and so on. For penalties, maybe a -1 cumulative after the first night. This stuff is made out of supposedly space age materials using design concepts we aren't savvy about, and are intended to see use as NBC suits for several days at a time, and that is before we think about such things as power suits. Most have built in environmental control units, not AC unit and heaters, but devices intended to maintain a reasonable climate internally under even strenuous activities. Even if they aren't 100% comfortable, they are generally not that bad compared to other options really.

I would have to insist the Glitterboy pilot laid his armor down though, and that he found a way to be at least realistically flat. Being restrained to a sitting position isn't that bad, but only if you are laid out in such a way that you are still facing more or less upwards.

With out putting too fine a point on it though... all your statements are... not completely factual. Astronauts wear suits on the ride up, but the first thing they do in space is take off the helmet and the launch suit. They wear flight suits or even sweats and tees while up there. They 'suit up' for space walks but they don't sleep or live in them while up there. They actually spend small amounts of time in 'space suits' or the suits that they launch in.

A troop in the army "Might" Wear his gear if he's forward deployed and in the field but that's a seldom seen sort of constant thing these days. We usually smash in and set up a base. They have taco bells and what not these days. Full access to facilities. To sleep and live in the armor like you're saying.. isn't going to be a standard thing. I'm sure it happens if you're on mission and away from base. If they're back at base they strip all that stuff off. Not for nothing, it's hot, heavy, uncomfortable, and if you've worn it more than 30 minutes even in the arctic, it reeks. If they have the option they get that stuff off ASAP. I've no doubt they keep stuff close at hand, and that when away from base they may catch some winks in gear, but it's not like you're making out where they come back to base and curl up in their armor and equipment and sleep. Wake refreshed, pop a tic tac and head back into the field.

You ARE correct about EBA armor having climate controls, which would help (( Help me hugely. I'd have the AC cranked on high, all the time. If needed i"d carry extra batteries out the wazoo)), and yes they are made out of hypertech. Hypertech doesn't change the human body in those ways though. if you strap things onto your self, a hard shell, there are pressure points. Points that rub, apply friction. Even with AC, you're going to sweat. In a closed system that's air tight that's all locked in with you. Your in a floating cess pool of your own moisture, sweat, etc.. Your skin is constantly shedding, again you're in a closed system there. You shed over 100 hairs daily, just moving around the world. You're constantly secreting. Not just from the eyes and nose and mouth, but all of your skin. You lose an amazing amount of moisture from the bottoms of your feet.

Now the EBA and PA are going to have air filters. But those are going to mainly be used to filter air coming in. To keep gases from killing you. Not filtering out your own reek and nastyness.

All those pressure points, even with load bearing harness and specifically designed suits, exist. Every joint is going to be a problem after a certain amount of time.

This is one of those things were Palladium's main writer, (Kevin) just has a lack of point of reference. He's a gamer geek. he's done "THIS" All of his professional life. It's what he does so he doesnt think all these things out all the time. That's cool. As long as you see it for what it is.

We as players kinda have a few choices here.
A) "IT'S A GAME, SHUT UP AND HAVE FUN" Let your suspension of disbelief carry you past the little niggling details like this. In the grand scheme of things how much is it going to matter to your game? Likely not tons. So... if it's annoying as a rule. Ignore it. Play on. Don't worry about it.
or
B) "I WANT AS MUCH REALITY IN MY GAME AS I CAN" Some people enjoy a more realistic game. They have fun trying to replicate all the intricacies of 'real life' in their games and that gives them joy. When one of their companions refuses to get out of his armor for three days straight and the GM says "Ok idiot. You are now developing a skin rash annnnnnnnd you have trench foot." That is how they like the game! Fully valid choice. Make up rules for this sort of thing (Sleeping in PA). Just be consistent. Remember humidity is not your friend unless you're an amphibian, and being too cold is as dangerous if not more dangerous than too hot. But sure, get in there. Dig into the minutia, if that's how you roll.
or
C) "Somewhere between A&B is the Goldilocks Zone" Most people want a touch of realizim in their games, especially if the games have at least a partial Science fiction slant. If there's laser guns and flying power armor people want a bit of science in there. That being said not every one wants to have to keep track of all the 'Real world' things. Like... when was the last time you bathed? When was the last time you washed your clothes? Did you clean your lasers' optic today? Did you fall down once? Did your scope get misaligned then? Sure you said you ate last night, but is the GM secretly keeping caloric intake back there and ready to hit you with a penalty when you least expect it because your character leaves off canned cheese and ritz crackers? For many people that's way too much and that takes away from the game. So they find that goldilocks zone, between "Who freakin' cares, lets blow some crap up!" and "My pack has been calculated to the last gram for proper weight alignment and preparedness for anything I may run into and I'm keeping a spread sheet of usage and matienence.

Depending on your game, depends on where in the three you fall. Most of us are going to fall into "C", then "A" and a few really have fun with "B". Just figure out which your game is.

[Nightmask]

The thing is, modern troopers sleep inside some fairly heavy armor all the time. This includes helmet, vest, various neck, side, crotch, shoulder and thigh guards, 6-12 magazines of ammo, possibly some grenades, and usually a half a dozen other things, like knives, flashlights, bundles of 550 cord, radios, night vision, etc. Many of them didn't even lay their rifles aside either, they just laid whatever it was across their chest (some clutching the weapon...which was creepy as all get out) and settled in. I watched these guys come in from 8-12 hours of kicking doors in at 3AM, flop down on solid concrete, sleep like a baby for 4-5 hours, and then go right back out and do it again without any obvious signs of fatigue. To avoid stink, they used baby wipe baths and deodorant. To avoid coming apart, they got cycled in and out of that duty fairly commonly.

Astronauts went on excursions to the moon and back, and many times didn't have room enough to shuck their suits for days at a time. Suits that, other than the bulbous helmets, really didn't come with a lot of room to flex in.

Really, I would apply a penalty, but not on the first night, and not even a serious penalty at first. Call is like -5% after the second night, -15%, the thirst, -25% thee fourth, and so on. For penalties, maybe a -1 cumulative after the first night. This stuff is made out of supposedly space age materials using design concepts we aren't savvy about, and are intended to see use as NBC suits for several days at a time, and that is before we think about such things as power suits. Most have built in environmental control units, not AC unit and heaters, but devices intended to maintain a reasonable climate internally under even strenuous activities. Even if they aren't 100% comfortable, they are generally not that bad compared to other options really.

I would have to insist the Glitterboy pilot laid his armor down though, and that he found a way to be at least realistically flat. Being restrained to a sitting position isn't that bad, but only if you are laid out in such a way that you are still facing more or less upwards.

None of those real life examples apply to power armour though... I would allow sleeping in EBA as per your examples without too much hassle but a power armour is a completely different monster.
Even if I was just another character in the game, I wouldn't allow one of my allies to sleep in PA - the risk of him rolling over in the middle of the night and crushing me to death simply isn't worth the extra protection he might gain.

Is there any reason to think you couldn't have a sleep-mode for power armor so that it wouldn't do things like that? Something that would shut down most of those response functions so you wouldn't go launching missiles or what have you.

[Giant2005]

The thing is, modern troopers sleep inside some fairly heavy armor all the time. This includes helmet, vest, various neck, side, crotch, shoulder and thigh guards, 6-12 magazines of ammo, possibly some grenades, and usually a half a dozen other things, like knives, flashlights, bundles of 550 cord, radios, night vision, etc. Many of them didn't even lay their rifles aside either, they just laid whatever it was across their chest (some clutching the weapon...which was creepy as all get out) and settled in. I watched these guys come in from 8-12 hours of kicking doors in at 3AM, flop down on solid concrete, sleep like a baby for 4-5 hours, and then go right back out and do it again without any obvious signs of fatigue. To avoid stink, they used baby wipe baths and deodorant. To avoid coming apart, they got cycled in and out of that duty fairly commonly.

Astronauts went on excursions to the moon and back, and many times didn't have room enough to shuck their suits for days at a time. Suits that, other than the bulbous helmets, really didn't come with a lot of room to flex in.

Really, I would apply a penalty, but not on the first night, and not even a serious penalty at first. Call is like -5% after the second night, -15%, the thirst, -25% thee fourth, and so on. For penalties, maybe a -1 cumulative after the first night. This stuff is made out of supposedly space age materials using design concepts we aren't savvy about, and are intended to see use as NBC suits for several days at a time, and that is before we think about such things as power suits. Most have built in environmental control units, not AC unit and heaters, but devices intended to maintain a reasonable climate internally under even strenuous activities. Even if they aren't 100% comfortable, they are generally not that bad compared to other options really.

I would have to insist the Glitterboy pilot laid his armor down though, and that he found a way to be at least realistically flat. Being restrained to a sitting position isn't that bad, but only if you are laid out in such a way that you are still facing more or less upwards.

None of those real life examples apply to power armour though... I would allow sleeping in EBA as per your examples without too much hassle but a power armour is a completely different monster.
Even if I was just another character in the game, I wouldn't allow one of my allies to sleep in PA - the risk of him rolling over in the middle of the night and crushing me to death simply isn't worth the extra protection he might gain.

Is there any reason to think you couldn't have a sleep-mode for power armor so that it wouldn't do things like that? Something that would shut down most of those response functions so you wouldn't go launching missiles or what have you.

There is a difference between rolling over and launching missiles. If a sleep mode existed that removed the possibility of movement, then unless my sleeping habits aren't the norm, sleep would be impossible. I can't personally sleep without movement - being restrained in a cocoon would be a nightmare.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

For some reason I imagine that multi-million credit uber high-tech power armor suits could be rather easily programmed to allow some degree of movement during sleep without having to worry about accidentally firing off a weapon or crushing a nearby teammate's skull. There's probably a whole chapter in the PA owners manual with instructions on that one, right in there with recommendations for cleaning your suit's interior, the process to empty the waste storage tanks, and so on.

[Alrik Vas]

agreed 48 hours in gear and you smeel like a wet dogs butthole.

Yep

I slept in a truck wearing kevlar chaps, 3 sweatshirts, workboots and a hardhat,safety glasses and a hivis vest, for years. Real life kinda works against this Princess and the Pea argument.

I'd be as specific as fatigue, though it is another word for real life.

[Zamion138]

I dont think it should be life ending....sometime you just can get out, some minor negatives for a night or two doesnt seem to harsh.
But if you never get out like you only leave the suit once a week or less youll deffintly have some problems. A sore neck being the least of your worries.

[Zamion138]

Anouther thought i just had is nanos like the medical ones. Dump them in with you and while you sleep they clean you and your catheter up so no infections

[say652]

The way around this would be partial conversion or light bionic conversion. No muscles to cramp up.

[Zamion138]

The way around this would be partial conversion or light bionic conversion. No muscles to cramp up.

Thats alot more drastic though. No kids in the future, youll nevver be quite human again. Its god awful expensive. Not to mention you may as well just go full cyborg and wear heavy armor and a jet pack.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Yeah, when you can just.. You know. Take off the armor and clean yourself and it, and sleep out side of the armor, in MDC fatigues.

[Zamion138]

Yeah, when you can just.. You know. Take off the armor and clean yourself and it, and sleep out side of the armor, in MDC fatigues.

Id agree if the PA suit up and power up times were in melle actions not rounds.

A lone PA pilot should not get out of the suit for anything short of a defended place with mdc bunk for his suit and him. Key word is lone.

[say652]

The way around this would be partial conversion or light bionic conversion. No muscles to cramp up.

Thats alot more drastic though. No kids in the future, youll nevver be quite human again. Its god awful expensive. Not to mention you may as well just go full cyborg and wear heavy armor and a jet pack.

I like the idea of a light stealthy japanese conversion using the stealth power armor. robotic ps 26 very low prowl penalties and quite a bit of MDC.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Yeah, when you can just.. You know. Take off the armor and clean yourself and it, and sleep out side of the armor, in MDC fatigues.

Id agree if the PA suit up and power up times were in melle actions not rounds.

A lone PA pilot should not get out of the suit for anything short of a defended place with mdc bunk for his suit and him. Key word is lone.

One hopes his patrols don't take him too far from base alone. Other wise, sleepin' gonna be uncomfortable at best, impossible at norm, and damaging at the worst.

I can see the 'logic' of "I'd rather be uncomfortable and crampy and dirty and possibly sick, than DEAD". Thankfully our groups are usually more than one guy.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

I can't think of many reasonable scenarios that would see a lone power armor equipped trooper being out in the wild for so long without support or relief. There's a lot of talk about picking PA pilots off when they're out of their armor, but that's hardly a revolutionary idea. Power armor has been prevalent on Rifts Earth for centuries at this point. Such weaknesses are going to be common knowledge and safeguarded against.

[Nightmask]

I can't think of many reasonable scenarios that would see a lone power armor equipped trooper being out in the wild for so long without support or relief. There's a lot of talk about picking PA pilots off when they're out of their armor, but that's hardly a revolutionary idea. Power armor has been prevalent on Rifts Earth for centuries at this point. Such weaknesses are going to be common knowledge and safeguarded against.

The rest of his group is all dead after a fierce battle or ambush leaving him cut off from relief or support, forcing him to have to make his way back to safety the slow way fearing that any moment he'll be discovered and his life ended.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I can't think of many reasonable scenarios that would see a lone power armor equipped trooper being out in the wild for so long without support or relief. There's a lot of talk about picking PA pilots off when they're out of their armor, but that's hardly a revolutionary idea. Power armor has been prevalent on Rifts Earth for centuries at this point. Such weaknesses are going to be common knowledge and safeguarded against.

The rest of his group is all dead after a fierce battle or ambush leaving him cut off from relief or support, forcing him to have to make his way back to safety the slow way fearing that any moment he'll be discovered and his life ended.

Then he really really should have chosen a PA with flight.

[Eclipse]

I'm in favor of having B) penalties applied. It's what balances out power armor imo. Lots of power but lots of drawbacks.. Really shows how great crazies, cyborgs and juicers are.

[T-Willard]

I think it's kind of funny that nobody thinks that the armor would be designed to allow long term wear.

Remember, that armor was made and designed during the Second Cold War, and that means surviving and fighting on the NBC battlefield.

As someone who's had to wear a full environmental suit for 5 days straight to qualify every six months way back in the bad old days, I can say: You can sleep in it. You get used to almost anything.

If I could learn to sleep in ditches for weeks at a time in full battle rattle, I'm pretty sure that armor designed from the ground up to be worn 24/7 for long periods of time in order to fight the NBC battlefield would be pretty comfortable pretty quick.

[say652]

I still think sleeping in Power Armor is doable. IRL working a tough guy job and having curled up and slept in more than one snowbank I can honestly say when its time to sleep, you make it work.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I think it's kind of funny that nobody thinks that the armor would be designed to allow long term wear.

Remember, that armor was made and designed during the Second Cold War, and that means surviving and fighting on the NBC battlefield.

As someone who's had to wear a full environmental suit for 5 days straight to qualify every six months way back in the bad old days, I can say: You can sleep in it. You get used to almost anything.

If I could learn to sleep in ditches for weeks at a time in full battle rattle, I'm pretty sure that armor designed from the ground up to be worn 24/7 for long periods of time in order to fight the NBC battlefield would be pretty comfortable pretty quick.

Where in the past 20 years have we had troops sleeping in ditches for weeks in full gear?

[say652]

I think it's kind of funny that nobody thinks that the armor would be designed to allow long term wear.

Remember, that armor was made and designed during the Second Cold War, and that means surviving and fighting on the NBC battlefield.

As someone who's had to wear a full environmental suit for 5 days straight to qualify every six months way back in the bad old days, I can say: You can sleep in it. You get used to almost anything.

If I could learn to sleep in ditches for weeks at a time in full battle rattle, I'm pretty sure that armor designed from the ground up to be worn 24/7 for long periods of time in order to fight the NBC battlefield would be pretty comfortable pretty quick.

Where in the past 20 years have we had troops sleeping in ditches for weeks in full gear?

I work with lots of ex military guys, who do you think taught me how to sleep in a snowbank?

[Pepsi Jedi]

I think it's kind of funny that nobody thinks that the armor would be designed to allow long term wear.

Remember, that armor was made and designed during the Second Cold War, and that means surviving and fighting on the NBC battlefield.

As someone who's had to wear a full environmental suit for 5 days straight to qualify every six months way back in the bad old days, I can say: You can sleep in it. You get used to almost anything.

If I could learn to sleep in ditches for weeks at a time in full battle rattle, I'm pretty sure that armor designed from the ground up to be worn 24/7 for long periods of time in order to fight the NBC battlefield would be pretty comfortable pretty quick.

Where in the past 20 years have we had troops sleeping in ditches for weeks in full gear?

I work with lots of ex military guys, who do you think taught me how to sleep in a snowbank?

My entire family is military. That doesn't answer the question of where in the last 20 years members of our armed forces were 'sleeping in ditches for weeks'. I'm trying to think. Iraq we didn't have troops sleeping in ditches for weeks. Nor Afghanistan. We had bases. During the initial invasion there were days, perhaps a week before things got settled down but after that the bases were fully operational. Not 'cushy' but they weren't sleeping in ditches for weeks on end, in full battle gear. Some of them had Pizza huts and Taco bells.

NBC gear we have now is cloth. Not hard ceramic plates. It's big baggy pants and tops with hoods and masks and gloves. Not the same thing as putting on full ceramic plate armor, that's environmentally sealed. The NBC gear we issue to the troops doesn't have air tanks or such. Some of it is even 'breathable'.

That's like saying "I have a bullet proof vest. So I know I can sleep in full plate armor. No problem."

EBA armor is more akin to a space suit than CBRN suits in use today.

The ones in rifts -are- designed to be better than we have today, but still unless you're changing the human body, you're restricted by the human body. You strap rigid plates onto the human body and it's going to be uncomfortable. Rigid plates that are 100% air tight, and tight enough to the body to not restrict movement enough to preclude combat and you're going to have the same problems that people have had with armor since they started tieing on bark with vines. It's hot, heavy, your joints accumulate sweat, and dirt, you get grimy where you move. That grime starts to abrade your flesh after a time. Your sweat is locked in there with you and you start to grow things in with ya. It's uncomfortable and you start to get sores where the armor rubs against you or pressure sores from where it's strapped down.

It's not a teeshirt and cargo shorts. Even if it has it's own AC built in.

[T-Willard]

Where in the past 20 years have we had troops sleeping in ditches for weeks in full gear?

You had some good guesses, but you needed to go further back in operations. More along 15 or so years.

Let's see... REFORGER 86, 87, 88, 89; the buildup to Desert Shield, Desert Shield, Desert Storm, other training here and there and in various places. During ARTEP and pre-ARTEP 1989 as part of OPFOR I spent 7 weeks without any comfort like a tent, cot, or even hot food. (Hint, eat the grape jelly or you'll be sorry) That was literally sleeping in a hole in the ground for 6 weeks.

As for the environmental suit, I'm not talking crappy MOPP4 they give your average troops so they can get jacked up on 2pamchloride to fight for another 72 hours, but real NBC suits to fight and win on the NBC battlefield or for use in high threat biological threat areas, I'm talking "God these tanks are heavy" full environmental suits with some armoring, including an EOD suit for OJT requalification.

And Taco Bell and Burger King? Seriously? Aw, man, that has to be nicer, but then, there's a definite downside you guys have we didn't. All I saw was either wreckage, sand, poverty, or small villages.

Plus, some of the ugly stuff we dealt with on Force XXI at Fort Hood we had to do ridiculous training in half-assed gear, including some ugly stuff that never got any further than stage 2 testing. (Ugh, some of the crap they were trying to foist off on us was stupid) I've always been pretty happy that some of the changes we demanded made it into later guy's gear, but those guys are probably all "Ugh, who approved this crap? This buckle is RIGHT on my kidney!" when the choice was more pressure on the back of your neck or the securing hook running the risk of hooking onto the bottom of your armor and yanking it up into your armpit when you raise your arms up to fire your weapon.

We can take the derail to PM's if you want. Most of it is boring stories from someone old and past SLEP.

[Armorlord]

In comparison to T-Willard's experiences, it might be less than a drop in the bucket, I know that myself and a few others I know have slept well in steel plate armor and chainmail in the cold and dirt with minimal gambeson and continue fighting without issue the following day- or randomly throughout the night. There were many that thought we were crazy or not-human for it, but I certainly preferred plate to rocky ground.
I would like to think a future-science suit of NBC armor that you ride around in and was meant for extended deployment would be at least as comfortable as lumps of steel, particularly with the climate control.

At worst I might consider that non-Man-at-Arms characters might be a bit fatigued, but on Rifts Earth they are usually just as used to living roughly, so unless you're talking about a particularly pampered character, I'm not going to give them a hard time about it.