Temporal Wizard/Warrior question

[Nightmask]

I was rereading the data on these particular characters and it notes that while most learn how to be one from a Temporal Raider a percentage (30% of Wizards, 20% of Warriors) learn from being indentured to an already trained Temporal Wizard or Warrior. Now training under the Raider results in insanities if you choose to start higher than 1st level, but it doesn't seem like that should be the case for Temporal wizards and warriors trained by other temporal wizards and warriors. Should these less common wizards and warriors have the insanities if they choose the longer period of servitude to the non-Raider instructor?

[Giant2005]

Braden answered a similar question relating to his creation the "Shing" in Thundercloud Galaxy here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=123148&hilit=shing+temporal
This was his answer with respect to them: "The Shing are one of those very rare species who have developed temporal magics on their own, and so do not have to tutor under a raider; Shing temporal wizards of high starting level would therefore NOT have any of the negative side effects or insanities. The use of certain temporal spells however, might still well bring on mental problems."

I figure that if the Shing don't suffer the negative effects by not studying with a Raider, other species wouldn't either.

[flatline]

I think it's reasonable that Temporal Wizards and Warriors that train with non-raiders might avoid the insanities.

Honestly, starting with insanities never came up. We always started at level 1.

--flatline

[Grand Paladin]

The answers above make sense. I personally have my own viewpoints about that topic and other issues concerning Temporal Magic and the Temporal Magic community, but they are part of a Rifter submission that I'm working on now, which (hopefully soon) will be ready to be sent to Wayne.

[Zamion138]

Id say if you dont start under the raider you can only start at level 1, and never get the bonouses that you couldnt gain from just leveling up like the auto dodge for the warrior

[Grand Paladin]

Id say if you dont start under the raider you can only start at level 1, and never get the bonouses that you couldnt gain from just leveling up like the auto dodge for the warrior

[Mercdog]

Personally, I'd still have the insanities apply. After all, you're messing with time and space, get deep enough into that and you'll encounter enough paradoxes to skew your perceptions and make you wonder if you're there now, or you're here then.

[Bill]

Personally, I'd still have the insanities apply. After all, you're messing with time and space, get deep enough into that and you'll encounter enough paradoxes to skew your perceptions and make you wonder if you're there now, or you're here then.

Maybe, but you don't have a demon yanking your chain for grins. Perhaps a lesser degree of insanity, a minor phobia or neurosis, maybe?

[Nightmask]

Personally, I'd still have the insanities apply. After all, you're messing with time and space, get deep enough into that and you'll encounter enough paradoxes to skew your perceptions and make you wonder if you're there now, or you're here then.

The insanities don't have anything to do with the magic, it's all about the long-term exposure of working for the Temporal Raider. If it was just the magic you'd have a table like with Crazies showing what insanities you get at what level but you don't, just what kind of insanities occur after so many years of serving one of them and staying long enough to gain higher levels before you adventure on your own. No insanities are said to occur if you simply start as a level 1 Temporal Wizard or Warrior and advance from that point on.

[flatline]

Personally, I'd still have the insanities apply. After all, you're messing with time and space, get deep enough into that and you'll encounter enough paradoxes to skew your perceptions and make you wonder if you're there now, or you're here then.

That's inconsistent with the fact that if you start at level 1 and progress normally to level 5, you incur no insanities even though you're just as competent with temporal magic as someone who started at level 5.

I always assumed the insanities were from the high stress of being part of a Temporal Raider's entourage. Or perhaps prolonged exposure to Temporal Raiders is insanity inducing via some other mechanism. I never got the impression that it was the temporal magic (except for 4d-transformation).

--flatline

[Mercdog]

Personally, I'd still have the insanities apply. After all, you're messing with time and space, get deep enough into that and you'll encounter enough paradoxes to skew your perceptions and make you wonder if you're there now, or you're here then.

The insanities don't have anything to do with the magic, it's all about the long-term exposure of working for the Temporal Raider. If it was just the magic you'd have a table like with Crazies showing what insanities you get at what level but you don't, just what kind of insanities occur after so many years of serving one of them and staying long enough to gain higher levels before you adventure on your own. No insanities are said to occur if you simply start as a level 1 Temporal Wizard or Warrior and advance from that point on.

You asked if they should have insanities if choosing the longer period of servitude to the non-raider instructor. I know I made a joke, but in my opinion, Yes, they should.

IMHO, the demon is only one factor that can lead to insanity among temporal classes. I'm no authority on temporal magic, but I don't think screwing around with time and space shouldn't be a no-insanity freebie just cause you learned how to do it from a wizard instead of an evil supernatural being. But that's just one fellow's opinion, you can run it however you like.

[Glistam]

It shouldn't matter if they're trained by a Temporal Raider, Temporal Wizard or a Temporal Warrior - if their training under a Wizard or Warrior is similar to the training they would receive under a Raider, then they get the insanities. It's not the magic - it's what they were doing that causes insanities and the alignment restrictions.

[Nightmask]

It shouldn't matter if they're trained by a Temporal Raider, Temporal Wizard or a Temporal Warrior - if their training under a Wizard or Warrior is similar to the training they would receive under a Raider, then they get the insanities. It's not the magic - it's what they were doing that causes insanities and the alignment restrictions.

Except there's no reason to believe that training under another Temporal Wizard/Warrior is like training under a Temporal Raider, Raiders due to the nature of their species are quite different in behavior and thought compared to the average non-Raider.

[Glistam]

It shouldn't matter if they're trained by a Temporal Raider, Temporal Wizard or a Temporal Warrior - if their training under a Wizard or Warrior is similar to the training they would receive under a Raider, then they get the insanities. It's not the magic - it's what they were doing that causes insanities and the alignment restrictions.

Except there's no reason to believe that training under another Temporal Wizard/Warrior is like training under a Temporal Raider, Raiders due to the nature of their species are quite different in behavior and thought compared to the average non-Raider.

And there's no reason not to believe it. 70% of Wizards and Warriors trained under a Temporal Raider, I think it's reasonable to believe their apprentices would be put through the same sorts of similar things that they went through. That would be my call as a G.M.. Your mileage may vary.

[Zamion138]

I always thought the insanities were due to thing like being traped in a diminsion of slime or demons. Having to put up with little or no food in some desert or seeing crazy crap as you were probaly a kid wandering around with a monster/demon/overlord or some one trained by one. The problems arise id say via what you encountered not in my mind becuase the raider was so harsh and evil. They want you to succeed, so youll be a better minnon/partner. If they wanted a toy or a pet they would summon one.

If your starting out with a 14 year servitude trained not by a raider id still give you the insainities. Youve been all over the megaverse and seen some crazy crap. Probably endured some hell, if nothing else a minor to severe case of ptsd.

[Tor]

The insanity-inducing aspect is tied to the extra bonuses that those who start above level 1 get. No getting one without the other