What's your favorite SAMAS?

[wyrmraker]

None of the above, actually. I prefer the Wild Weasel or Sidewinder. The vernier thrust system makes bizarre maneuvers actually possible.

[Alrik Vas]

Of the options, I go with the original SAM. Though i prefer the Spec-Ops variant.

[jaymz]

No Silver Eagle?

I'll have to say Violator then since it looks so predatory.

[dragonfett]

None of the above, actually. I prefer the Wild Weasel or Sidewinder. The vernier thrust system makes bizarre maneuvers actually possible.

Same here on the Wild Weasel.

[ZINO]

Violator hand down with modded weapon systems and a TW Violator

[Zamion138]

Wild weasel that thing is a team pa if their was one and can drop incomming fire to reasonable levels and keep reinforcements from showing up, and you can just make it hold a rail gun or massive weapon if you need it.
Like the 40 mini missile cs rifle, burst of 8 rockets is what its all about while you block their incomming ones.

[GenThunderfist]

I voted for the Original of course. Whats cooler than the Original Death Head SAMAS? Nothing! That's what!

On the other hand it's a pretty much 3 way split for close second between the V-SAM due to it's awesome look, the Striker SAM becuase it's so manly ( ), and finally the Side Winder...it's just great

[SmilingJack]

Ok, because of my scree name I may be partial however I honestly love the Smiling Jack Light Assault SAMAS power armour

It just rocks,

It's extremely fast and of any of the SAMAS is the most maneuverable and lightest,

Also the standard rail gun is equivalent to the striker SAMAS and the 6 mini missiles provide a versatile attack option

Every adventure with a CS mission I've been a part of I've always had the smiling jack,

+5 to dodge while flying

The armor looks awesome, is ideal for my smaller female character and when mixed in with other super and striker SAMAS , provides a difficult target , and has substantial MDC protection

If rifts was real this would be the power armor I would want to pilot

I love the smiling jack so much

[Eashamahel]

Of the options, I go with the original SAM. Though i prefer the Spec-Ops variant.

Striker Samas, I will agree with you there completely. Unit for unit for cost it's hard to argue it's not just the best.

[Cybermancer]

Striker.

[Icefalcon]

Broken ones.

[flatline]

Broken ones.

Fun fact #1: tectonic entities can animate things up to 8 feet tall.
Fun fact #2: original SAMAS is 8 feet tall (I don't have stats for the newer versions)

So once you've done away with the pilots, use tectonic entities to walk your captured SAMAS suits through your dimensional portal.

--flatline

[Dead Boy]

What?!? No Striker Sam?!?!?

Of those on the voting list (which I would edit to include those you overlooked when making the poll - and yes, that will re-boot all voting), I'd go for the Super Sam. Highest top speed, highest altitude, most powerful non-missile main weapon, devastating salvos from its ballistic grenades, mean looks... oh yeah! Only thing it lacks is weapons' range, but it's speed can compensate for that.

[say652]

original SAMAS. mass produced and combat tested. all around versatile and just a great power armor.

[mobuttu]

Here you are all SAMAS available.

[click on the upper-right botton for an automatic google translation]

Besides, I'm now working on a sort of SAMAS comparition chart (I'll post it ASAIC)

[Hystrix]

I liked the original SAMAS. It just seemed like a good suit of Power Armor. Plus, I feel is still a classic Rifts PA that's still in use.

[mobuttu]

After some consideration and comparison, best SAMAS are:

#1 - PA-09A "Super-SAMAS"
#2 - QPA-102 "Violator SAMAS"
#3 - PA-08A "Striker"

[Killer Cyborg]

Of the options, I go with the original SAM.

Yup.
Although the Striker SAMAS is also good.

[Zamion138]

After some consideration and comparison, best SAMAS are:

#1 - PA-09A "Super-SAMAS"
#2 - QPA-102 "Violator SAMAS"
#3 - PA-08A "Striker"

I love your graphs, but i do think it doesnt really take the sidewinders "special" abilities into full effect, its the best comms in all of rifts earth. Im not sure if its repersented in the stars for defense on the missile override and deflection rating.
Anyhow i deffintly love the graphs even if i disagree with the sidewinder not being like 3rd

[Eashamahel]

Why is it the entire CS infantry isn't in SAMAS again?

Also, does your graph take cost into account, or just raw ability?

[The Beast]

Broken ones.

[Nightmask]

Why is it the entire CS infantry isn't in SAMAS again?

Also, does your graph take cost into account, or just raw ability?

Because then they aren't really infantry then and not cost effective. Infantry can do its job just fine with good body armor and man-portable weapons, power armor like SAMAS is more in the air-support category.

[Jay05]

My faves are the Wild Weasel and Side Winder for all the reasons listed by others. Honestly my to main reasons, are;1. they're available in North America, and 2. they are not CS surplus! Finally mercs in NA can fly their SAMAS in to battle and not have to explain to the elders of the DB community their company is working for "Um, no I swear I'm not with the Coalition and never have been!" lol saves from headaches IMO

[Eashamahel]

Because then they aren't really infantry then and not cost effective. Infantry can do its job just fine with good body armor and man-portable weapons, power armor like SAMAS is more in the air-support category.

haha, my first comment was more as a joke, it's linked to the fact that the CS 'retired' enough suits of old style CS SAMAS to suit their ENTIRE infantry force. Add to that the fact that SAMAS can do everything better than infantry, be their own mobility, and require minimal upkeep (one power supply is good for the life of the soldier, effectively), and it's just an amusing example of not thinking through on the writers part. Plus, the infantry could still use their usual infantry weapons IN their SAMAS, and hooking those weapons into the SAMAS would entirely remove the need for re-loads and re-supplies...

[taalismn]

None of the above. Going with Wild Weasel, because ECM is just so cool to have.

[flatline]

So which SAMAS is stealthy?

--flatline

[Icefalcon]

So which SAMAS is stealthy?

--flatline

None of them, really. Just flying around would cause a high pitched whine.

[flatline]

So which SAMAS is stealthy?

--flatline

None of them, really. Just flying around would cause a high pitched whine.

And running is probably just as loud (and you probably sink into the ground considering how much a SAMAS weighs).

Oh well. I wouldn't mind a suit that makes me stronger and faster, but not if it removes my ability to sneak around.

--flatline

[taalismn]

If I absolutely must, I'll go with the origional US SAMAS....it's got the same general looks and specs as the CS SAMAS, but the rail gun is slightly better.
Then I'll go to town with custom mods and TW add-ons.

[Icefalcon]

So which SAMAS is stealthy?

--flatline

None of them, really. Just flying around would cause a high pitched whine.

And running is probably just as loud (and you probably sink into the ground considering how much a SAMAS weighs).

Oh well. I wouldn't mind a suit that makes me stronger and faster, but not if it removes my ability to sneak around.

--flatline

That is the trade-off. You give up stealth for increased speed, strength, protection and firepower. A lot of things in life are like that. It comes down to choosing what you are willing to give up for an increase in another area.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Violator SAMAS.

Possibly just because of the Perez art for it. It's a decent SAMAS, it's my favorite - but it's definitely not the best out there.

~ Josh

[flatline]

So which SAMAS is stealthy?

--flatline

None of them, really. Just flying around would cause a high pitched whine.

And running is probably just as loud (and you probably sink into the ground considering how much a SAMAS weighs).

Oh well. I wouldn't mind a suit that makes me stronger and faster, but not if it removes my ability to sneak around.

--flatline

That is the trade-off. You give up stealth for increased speed, strength, protection and firepower. A lot of things in life are like that. It comes down to choosing what you are willing to give up for an increase in another area.

Indeed. I'm quite used to being the guy with the grav pack trying to keep up with half a dozen power armor. However, I'm also the guy who rescues the girl or secures the goal while the enemy is engaging my metal-clad compatriots. So it works out.

--flatline

[flatline]

[quote="Gryphon"]Hmm...

Why isn't there a Stealth SAMAS yet?! Maybe not one that is quiet on the ground, but one that is undetectable to RADAR and has thermal signature masking at least?
/quote]

Considering the relative small size of power armor and the high power consumption of power armor, there's probably no way to conceal the thermal output without resorting to magic of some sort.

--flatline

[ffranceschi]

V-SAM because of the style!

[Nightmask]

Hmm...

Why isn't there a Stealth SAMAS yet?! Maybe not one that is quiet on the ground, but one that is undetectable to RADAR and has thermal signature masking at least?
/quote]

Considering the relative small size of power armor and the high power consumption of power armor, there's probably no way to conceal the thermal output without resorting to magic of some sort.

--flatline

Hmmmm, couldn't you technologically move the heat into a less detectable form of energy, or at least a type not normally scanned for? Radiators don't have to radiate in infrared do they?

[Icefalcon]

Hmm...

Why isn't there a Stealth SAMAS yet?! Maybe not one that is quiet on the ground, but one that is undetectable to RADAR and has thermal signature masking at least?
/quote]

Considering the relative small size of power armor and the high power consumption of power armor, there's probably no way to conceal the thermal output without resorting to magic of some sort.

--flatline

Hmmmm, couldn't you technologically move the heat into a less detectable form of energy, or at least a type not normally scanned for? Radiators don't have to radiate in infrared do they?

SAMAS have tiny nuclear reactors in them. They would be detectable just because of the nuclear material from halfway across the country, even with today's tech.

[Nightmask]

Hmm...

Why isn't there a Stealth SAMAS yet?! Maybe not one that is quiet on the ground, but one that is undetectable to RADAR and has thermal signature masking at least?
/quote]

Considering the relative small size of power armor and the high power consumption of power armor, there's probably no way to conceal the thermal output without resorting to magic of some sort.

--flatline

Hmmmm, couldn't you technologically move the heat into a less detectable form of energy, or at least a type not normally scanned for? Radiators don't have to radiate in infrared do they?

SAMAS have tiny nuclear reactors in them. They would be detectable just because of the nuclear material from halfway across the country, even with today's tech.

I've yet to hear that we've got sensors that can pick up radioactive material hundreds of miles away, let alone that the nuclear power cores in power armor (or anything else) are so radioactive that they can be detected from hundreds of miles away which would kind of require a big note in the books about how detectable power armor is due to the radiation from their power cores. I'm not even sure they have radiation sensors that can detect unshielded radioactive material at even a mile let alone nuclear material in a heavily shielded generator over miles.

[flatline]

Hmm...

Why isn't there a Stealth SAMAS yet?! Maybe not one that is quiet on the ground, but one that is undetectable to RADAR and has thermal signature masking at least?
/quote]

Considering the relative small size of power armor and the high power consumption of power armor, there's probably no way to conceal the thermal output without resorting to magic of some sort.

--flatline

Hmmmm, couldn't you technologically move the heat into a less detectable form of energy, or at least a type not normally scanned for? Radiators don't have to radiate in infrared do they?

Radiators depend on black body radiation which is broad spectrum. You can put a filter around your radiator to capture the IR, but that reduces the efficiency of the radiator and once the filter warms up above ambient temperatures, then it, too, will begin radiating IR, so the best you can really do is to shape the direction the radiator is allowed to radiate by "silvering" the side you don't want to radiate...but that reduces the effective surface area of your radiator which requires you to make the radiator bigger.

I don't think we're ever told how much power the power armor reactor generates, but if we had a ballpark estimate of its output and the surface area of the power armor, we could calculate what the "average" surface temperature of the power armor would be. I'd have to hunt for the formulas, but I know I've got them somewhere.

--flatline

[Eashamahel]

Just so we are clear, the Violator SAMAS is the one in free Quebec, which uses the same theory as a jet-plane with it's wings sharpened, right? Just bashes into things with them and cuts them in-half, due to the fact that collisions inflict ridiculous amounts of MD in most Rifts books.

[Zamion138]

Just so we are clear, the Violator SAMAS is the one in free Quebec, which uses the same theory as a jet-plane with it's wings sharpened, right? Just bashes into things with them and cuts them in-half, due to the fact that collisions inflict ridiculous amounts of MD in most Rifts books.

So does your mom...........hehehe sorry sorry . 14 year old bevis and butthead youth came crawling out...

[flatline]

Just so we are clear, the Violator SAMAS is the one in free Quebec, which uses the same theory as a jet-plane with it's wings sharpened, right? Just bashes into things with them and cuts them in-half, due to the fact that collisions inflict ridiculous amounts of MD in most Rifts books.

Which collision rules are you referring to?

--flatline

[The Beast]

I've yet to hear that we've got sensors that can pick up radioactive material hundreds of miles away, let alone that the nuclear power cores in power armor (or anything else) are so radioactive that they can be detected from hundreds of miles away which would kind of require a big note in the books about how detectable power armor is due to the radiation from their power cores. I'm not even sure they have radiation sensors that can detect unshielded radioactive material at even a mile let alone nuclear material in a heavily shielded generator over miles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#International_spread_of_radioactive_substances

International spread of radioactive substances

Four hundred times more radioactive material was released than had been by the atomic bombing of Hiroshima. The disaster released 1/100 to 1/1000 of the total amount of radioactivity released by nuclear weapons testing during the 1950s and 1960s.[83] Approximately 100,000 km² of land was significantly contaminated with fallout, the worst hit regions being in Belarus, Ukraine and Russia.[84] Slighter levels of contamination were detected over all of Europe except for the Iberian Peninsula.[16][85][86]
The initial evidence that a major release of radioactive material was affecting other countries came not from Soviet sources, but from Sweden, where on the morning of 28 April[87] workers at the Forsmark Nuclear Power Plant(approximately 1,100 km (680 mi) from the Chernobyl site) were found to have radioactive particles on their clothes.[88]
It was Sweden's search for the source of radioactivity, after they had determined there was no leak at the Swedish plant, that at noon on 28 April led to the first hint of a serious nuclear problem in the western Soviet Union. Hence the evacuation of Pripyat on 27 April 36 hours after the initial explosions, was silently completed before the disaster became known outside the Soviet Union. The rise in radiation levels had at that time already been measured in Finland, but a civil service strike delayed the response and publication.[89]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDS-1

Response in the West

When the radioactive fission products from the test were detected by the US Air Force, the US began to follow the trail of the nuclear fallout debris.[2] President Truman notified the world of the situation on September 23, 1949: "We have evidence that within recent weeks an atomic explosion occurred in the U.S.S.R."[3] This statement was a turning point in the Cold War that had just begun. The Green Run was a secret test carried out to help the US Air Force's reconnaissance for future detections of Soviet atomic tests.[4]
Once the Soviet Union was confirmed to be in possession of the atomic bomb, pressure mounted to develop the first hydrogen bomb.[3]

[drewkitty ~..~]

The USA PA-04A SAMAS. Because there is no deaths head motif.

[Daniel Stoker]

I've yet to hear that we've got sensors that can pick up radioactive material hundreds of miles away, let alone that the nuclear power cores in power armor (or anything else) are so radioactive that they can be detected from hundreds of miles away which would kind of require a big note in the books about how detectable power armor is due to the radiation from their power cores. I'm not even sure they have radiation sensors that can detect unshielded radioactive material at even a mile let alone nuclear material in a heavily shielded generator over miles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#International_spread_of_radioactive_substances

International spread of radioactive substances

Four hundred times more radioactive material was released than had been by the atomic bombing of Hiroshima. The disaster released 1/100 to 1/1000 of the total amount of radioactivity released by nuclear weapons testing during the 1950s and 1960s.[83] Approximately 100,000 km² of land was significantly contaminated with fallout, the worst hit regions being in Belarus, Ukraine and Russia.[84] Slighter levels of contamination were detected over all of Europe except for the Iberian Peninsula.[16][85][86]
The initial evidence that a major release of radioactive material was affecting other countries came not from Soviet sources, but from Sweden, where on the morning of 28 April[87] workers at the Forsmark Nuclear Power Plant(approximately 1,100 km (680 mi) from the Chernobyl site) were found to have radioactive particles on their clothes.[88]
It was Sweden's search for the source of radioactivity, after they had determined there was no leak at the Swedish plant, that at noon on 28 April led to the first hint of a serious nuclear problem in the western Soviet Union. Hence the evacuation of Pripyat on 27 April 36 hours after the initial explosions, was silently completed before the disaster became known outside the Soviet Union. The rise in radiation levels had at that time already been measured in Finland, but a civil service strike delayed the response and publication.[89]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDS-1

Response in the West

When the radioactive fission products from the test were detected by the US Air Force, the US began to follow the trail of the nuclear fallout debris.[2] President Truman notified the world of the situation on September 23, 1949: "We have evidence that within recent weeks an atomic explosion occurred in the U.S.S.R."[3] This statement was a turning point in the Cold War that had just begun. The Green Run was a secret test carried out to help the US Air Force's reconnaissance for future detections of Soviet atomic tests.[4]
Once the Soviet Union was confirmed to be in possession of the atomic bomb, pressure mounted to develop the first hydrogen bomb.[3]

That's all unshielded material, not material as part of a reactor that would be shielded to keep the user you know.. alive.


Daniel Stoker

[Eashamahel]

Which collision rules are you referring to?

--flatline

Oh, there are no rules showing collision in Rifts should do some crazy level of damage, infact, many early 'collisions' were actually well balanced, with body block/rams from giant creatures/power armour, ect, generally doing somewhere between 1D4 and 2D6 MD. That of course doesn't fit with the 'everything does huge damage' concept that came later. A good example is the Ram damage the CS Mark VII 'Slayer' does in Coalition War Campaign. It is hilariously ludicrous, and runs counter to pretty much all of the 'established' rules regarding speed and impact (which I believe can be found in the rulebook of the time).

The reasoning is simple, big things and fast things need to be able to break through/fly through other objects and opponents, it's cool. Unfortunately, with MDC, you have to have some reason to elevate damage to that 'next level'. At some points this is because of energy fields (vibro blades), or because of vibro blades (pretty sure at least one thing in Warlords has vibro tires, juicer armour with vibro spikes, ect), but at others it's just because if an SDC armoured car can ram through an SDC barricade, then an MDC armoured car 'should' go through an MDC barricade, despite the fact that there is no actual reason (100x the speed/mass for example, energy ram, vibro plow, ect).

It's just a symptom of later Rifts, one of my own personal gripes.

[The Beast]

I've yet to hear that we've got sensors that can pick up radioactive material hundreds of miles away, let alone that the nuclear power cores in power armor (or anything else) are so radioactive that they can be detected from hundreds of miles away which would kind of require a big note in the books about how detectable power armor is due to the radiation from their power cores. I'm not even sure they have radiation sensors that can detect unshielded radioactive material at even a mile let alone nuclear material in a heavily shielded generator over miles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#International_spread_of_radioactive_substances

International spread of radioactive substances

Four hundred times more radioactive material was released than had been by the atomic bombing of Hiroshima. The disaster released 1/100 to 1/1000 of the total amount of radioactivity released by nuclear weapons testing during the 1950s and 1960s.[83] Approximately 100,000 km² of land was significantly contaminated with fallout, the worst hit regions being in Belarus, Ukraine and Russia.[84] Slighter levels of contamination were detected over all of Europe except for the Iberian Peninsula.[16][85][86]
The initial evidence that a major release of radioactive material was affecting other countries came not from Soviet sources, but from Sweden, where on the morning of 28 April[87] workers at the Forsmark Nuclear Power Plant(approximately 1,100 km (680 mi) from the Chernobyl site) were found to have radioactive particles on their clothes.[88]
It was Sweden's search for the source of radioactivity, after they had determined there was no leak at the Swedish plant, that at noon on 28 April led to the first hint of a serious nuclear problem in the western Soviet Union. Hence the evacuation of Pripyat on 27 April 36 hours after the initial explosions, was silently completed before the disaster became known outside the Soviet Union. The rise in radiation levels had at that time already been measured in Finland, but a civil service strike delayed the response and publication.[89]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDS-1

Response in the West

When the radioactive fission products from the test were detected by the US Air Force, the US began to follow the trail of the nuclear fallout debris.[2] President Truman notified the world of the situation on September 23, 1949: "We have evidence that within recent weeks an atomic explosion occurred in the U.S.S.R."[3] This statement was a turning point in the Cold War that had just begun. The Green Run was a secret test carried out to help the US Air Force's reconnaissance for future detections of Soviet atomic tests.[4]
Once the Soviet Union was confirmed to be in possession of the atomic bomb, pressure mounted to develop the first hydrogen bomb.[3]

That's all unshielded material, not material as part of a reactor that would be shielded to keep the user you know.. alive.


Daniel Stoker

Yeah, that dawned on me about 5 minutes after I posted.

[Daniel Stoker]

NP, happens to the best of us. Just not me.


Daniel Stoker

[mobuttu]

After some consideration and comparison, best SAMAS are:

#1 - PA-09A "Super-SAMAS"
#2 - QPA-102 "Violator SAMAS"
#3 - PA-08A "Striker"

I love your graphs, but i do think it doesn't really take the sidewinders "special" abilities into full effect, its the best comms in all of rifts earth. Im not sure if its repersented in the stars for defense on the missile override and deflection rating.
Anyhow i deffintly love the graphs even if i disagree with the sidewinder not being like 3rd

Thanks for your kind words.

Countermeasures are indeed taken into account in the Wild Weasel Firepower (combat) entry. It has 4 stars, better than the 3 stars of the "common" SAMAS in that issue. Also, Sidewinder maneuverability are also in the graphs under "Bonuses" entry: see they have the top qualification on that (6 stars). unfortunately comm aspects were neglected in the comparison aspects, though I agree it's a very good feature on their part.

[Zamion138]

After some consideration and comparison, best SAMAS are:

#1 - PA-09A "Super-SAMAS"
#2 - QPA-102 "Violator SAMAS"
#3 - PA-08A "Striker"

I love your graphs, but i do think it doesn't really take the sidewinders "special" abilities into full effect, its the best comms in all of rifts earth. Im not sure if its repersented in the stars for defense on the missile override and deflection rating.
Anyhow i deffintly love the graphs even if i disagree with the sidewinder not being like 3rd

Thanks for your kind words.

Countermeasures are indeed taken into account in the Wild Weasel Firepower (combat) entry. It has 4 stars, better than the 3 stars of the "common" SAMAS in that issue. Also, Sidewinder maneuverability are also in the graphs under "Bonuses" entry: see they have the top qualification on that (6 stars). unfortunately comm aspects were neglected in the comparison aspects, though I agree it's a very good feature on their part.

Well right on, was just curious about how some of the ranks came down where they did.

[Acid0philus]

By "original" I assume you mean the Coalition States knock off of
the NEMA Talon/Silver Eagle/Condor Chromium SAMAS, right? If
you meant the NEMA progenitor, then that is my favorite one.