One Shot TW Devices

[MikelAmroni]

Hey, so how what kind of modifier would you apply for a true one shot device. Basically I want the equivalent of a grenade or a potion.

[glitterboy2098]

i'd cut the non-gemstone costs in half. representing that the item is being made with a design not intended for reuse, and thus is being made with less precise and expensive worksmanship and materials.

[Shark_Force]

there are actually already rules for this in the TW device creation rules in RUE.

personally, i'd pretty much always prefer making a multiple use device (you don't get a very significant discount for single-use, imo), but that's just me.

[mobuttu]

there are actually already rules for this in the TW device creation rules in RUE.

+1

Also take a look at BoM328-329 for TW Goblind Bombs and other TW Grenades.

[Blue_Lion]

Personaly I whould treat a single use TW device more like a scroll or tailsman for the spell. As in efect it is a TW version of such. I whould probaly drop the cost, and the requirement of the gems but add in the requirment of casting either the spell to make a scroll or tailsman into the device creation process. So maybe make a TW grenade for a few hundred credits. note the cost in the BOM is not the cost to make the item but the cost to buy the item IE what it normaly sells for.

[MikelAmroni]

Oh I'm quite familiar with the creation rules, but there is nothing in regards to making one shot use items. I personally think this is a weakness. One thing a TW should be able to do is make up some one shot devices to beef up his team, expensive, but not overly so. Multi-use items are also time intensive, and time is one of the things I'm trying to save. I'll actually be able to recover the materials and gems I use. Time is my enemy.

Edit: So I opened up the rules again, and noticed something I hadn't before. yay finding new things.

Single use Devices are handled differently, but this same set of directions. Single Use devices are limited to a single spell, the level of which cannot exceed the creator’s level. The advantage is that a Single Use Device requires half the amount of time to create, has half the construction cost, has no activation cost, has only one-tenth the PPE construction cost, and only one quarter of the gems of a normal TW device, due to being much less complex.

Reading comprehension for the win!

So, my Shadowmeld devices:

Form: A small black box attached to a harness worn by the user with a button on it. Press the button and become one with the shadows. When it activates, the person is covered in shadows.
Function: Cast Shadowmeld on the person wearing the box
Spells Needed: Shadowmeld
Required gems: Black Sapphire 1/4 carat
PPE Construction Cost: 10 x 5 (device level) x 10 (Construction multiplier)/10(one shot reduction modifier)=50 PPE (not bad)
Activation Cost: none - powered and ready to go
Construction Time: (50(PPE Construction Cost) / (Construction time modifier) x 5 = 1 hours)/2 = .5 hour
Market Cost: 50 (PPE Construction Cost) x 10 (Construction Cost multiplier) X 5 (device level)) + cost of the gems: 500 credits base + 4000 for the 1/4 carat gems or 4500 credits if I were selling them.

[Subjugator]

A box shouldn't do shadowmeld. I'd make it a blacklight or something.

[Comrade Corsarius]

I have 'falling belts' on my sky-ship.

A falling belt is a device worn while aboard a sky ship, tree trimmer, wing board, or other airborne ley line riding device. It is a very simple device, buckled around the waist with a small but complex box attached to the buckle. The second part of the device is a similar box connected to the vehicle, to which up to twelve belts may be attuned. Larger ships may require more than one system. Once someone leaves contact with the vehicle the belt is attuned to (man overboard!), the magic in the belt is activated and lowers the wearer gently to the ground, moving forwards at a speed of 12. The wearer may magically move left and right using mental commands to avoid obstacles, but that is the limit of the design. This is not a flying device, and the only other direction is down. Once contact has been made with the surface, the magic is expended and the belt is only good for holding up the trousers of the wearer until it is replaced on board the vehicle it is attuned to. Once this has been done, the belt takes 1d4*10 minutes to recharge its 'battery' from the ley line (variations in the magic flow along the line create the variable timeframe), or it can instantly be brought up to charge by the expenditure of 10PPE. Falling belts are popular with low-level mages who lack flying spells, crazies who use TW vehicles, and nonmagical crew of Sky-ships. They are required to be worn at all times while aboard the sky-ships of the Colorado Navy as safety devices.

Form: A belt with a device attached, paired to a device aboard the vehicle
Function: Cast a weakened combination of Float In Air and Levitation on the wearer
Spells Needed: Float In Air, Levitation
Required gems: Cubic Zirconium (each belt), Black Pearl (main box)
Activation Cost: none - powered and ready to go

[MikelAmroni]

A box shouldn't do shadowmeld. I'd make it a blacklight or something.

I should include that the box would attach to a harness worn by the user. I'll edit above.

[Shark_Force]

I have 'falling belts' on my sky-ship.

A falling belt is a device worn while aboard a sky ship, tree trimmer, wing board, or other airborne ley line riding device. It is a very simple device, buckled around the waist with a small but complex box attached to the buckle. The second part of the device is a similar box connected to the vehicle, to which up to twelve belts may be attuned. Larger ships may require more than one system. Once someone leaves contact with the vehicle the belt is attuned to (man overboard!), the magic in the belt is activated and lowers the wearer gently to the ground, moving forwards at a speed of 12. The wearer may magically move left and right using mental commands to avoid obstacles, but that is the limit of the design. This is not a flying device, and the only other direction is down. Once contact has been made with the surface, the magic is expended and the belt is only good for holding up the trousers of the wearer until it is replaced on board the vehicle it is attuned to. Once this has been done, the belt takes 1d4*10 minutes to recharge its 'battery' from the ley line (variations in the magic flow along the line create the variable timeframe), or it can instantly be brought up to charge by the expenditure of 10PPE. Falling belts are popular with low-level mages who lack flying spells, crazies who use TW vehicles, and nonmagical crew of Sky-ships. They are required to be worn at all times while aboard the sky-ships of the Colorado Navy as safety devices.

Form: A belt with a device attached, paired to a device aboard the vehicle
Function: Cast a weakened combination of Float In Air and Levitation on the wearer
Spells Needed: Float In Air, Levitation
Required gems: Cubic Zirconium (each belt), Black Pearl (main box)
Activation Cost: none - powered and ready to go

that's a great idea, but not single-use at all...

[Blue_Lion]

One shot items-
Balrog missle-summons and conrols a balrog at the point of intrest, -orders attack the nearest group for 10 min then send it away must be bilt in a short range missle range 1/2 mile. That is a top end one I once made used it on a TW main battle tank to augment the forces.

Auto injecture-super human speed- when slaped to the body of person cast super human speed on them.

Scroll mini-disk- A disk that can be played in any computer that runs a sinle use text file that acts as a scroll when read by the device holder.
The scroll mini-disk could be made with a recording device that cast scribe scroll with the output instead of hard copy is on a mini disk.

TW-emergeny escape jets- A single use device that cast fly like a eagle on the user when activated.

TW-repair nano dispencer- Device contains single use nano-s based of the internal robot surgen than when deployed on a MDC device cast mend the broken.

TW emergency shield harnes- a single use device that when it detects the users armor has been compromised cast armor of ithan.

Those are some ideas I have did not fully stat them out so that you can make them as you see fit. But as you can see most are inteded to be used one time, so it depends on how you treat them.

[MikelAmroni]

I also made these two. 25 minute duration on the Red Box, 2 and a half minute duration on the marbled black box. I ended up crafting the cases out of sterno cans, so they really are one use items I might be able to salvage the gems and the silver wire, but that's about it.

My Impervious to Fire Red Box device:
Form: A small black box with a button on it. Press and twist the button and become invulnerable to fire.
Function: Cast Impervious to Fire on the person wearing the box
Spells Needed: Impervious to Fire
Required gems: Smokey Quartz 1/4 carat
PPE Construction Cost: 5 x 5 (device level) x 10 (Construction multiplier)/10(one shot reduction modifier)=25 PPE
Activation Cost: none - powered and ready to go
Construction Time: (25(PPE Construction Cost) / (Construction time modifier) x 5 = 1 hours)/2 = .25 hour
Market Cost: 25 (PPE Construction Cost) x 10 (Construction Cost multiplier) X 5 (device level)) + cost of the gems: 250 credits base + 38 for the 1/4 carat gems or 288 credits if I were selling them.

My Superhuman Strength Marbled Black Box device:
Form: A small black box with a button on it. Press and twist the button and become a superhuman in strength and endurance
Function: Cast Superhuman Strength on the person wearing the box
Spells Needed: Superhuman Strength
Required gems: Black Sapphire 1/4 carat
PPE Construction Cost: 10 x 5 (device level) x 10 (Construction multiplier)/10(one shot reduction modifier)=50 PPE
Activation Cost: none - powered and ready to go
Construction Time: (50(PPE Construction Cost) / (Construction time modifier) x 5 = 1 hours)/2 = .5 hour
Market Cost: 50 (PPE Construction Cost) x 10 (Construction Cost multiplier) X 5 (device level)) + cost of the gems: 500 credits base + 1500 for the 1/4 carat gems or 2000 credits if I were selling them.

[MikelAmroni]

I have 'falling belts' on my sky-ship.

that's a great idea, but not single-use at all...

The only thing non single use is the fact that they can be recharged. He loses that bit of fluff and they are indeed single use items.

[Shark_Force]

I have 'falling belts' on my sky-ship.

that's a great idea, but not single-use at all...

The only thing non single use is the fact that they can be recharged. He loses that bit of fluff and they are indeed single use items.

the same can be said of every other TW item in existence. remove the ability to recharge them and they all become single-use.

[Blue_Lion]

Why are these "boxes", harnessed or not? Shouldn't they instead be something more appropriate in nature, whatever that might end up being?

And for much the same reason as a Stone Mage and his Gem Magic has issues, I would be seriously tempted to for the same route here, damaging and even destroying the gem used in this single use item. It would depend to a degree how badly "abused" this single use item rule ends up being. Having a Techno-Wizard that has his PPE to pump into a variety of items, and then the ability to toss various other spells around without expense is troubling to a degree. And other magic users can do the same, though this is only equally as troubling.

The real kicker is that non-mystical classes could end up walking around with these things. Imagine the havoc a Juicer could cause with a pocket Superhuman strength item, or a negate magic when you try to magic net or carpet of adhesion him while he is standing on ferrocrete?

Is it not by default that only mages and psi can use tw items charged or not.

[Mack]

Is it not by default that only mages and psi can use tw items charged or not.

It is up to the device's builder. Can be either way.

[Blue_Lion]

Is it not by default that only mages and psi can use tw items charged or not.

It is up to the device's builder. Can be either way.

The device builder has the option to change it but if they do not it is not created for not mages/psi then they can not use it. (I never liked the idea of anyone can use a TW item it counterdicts the orginal idea of TWs)

[Shark_Force]

Why are these "boxes", harnessed or not? Shouldn't they instead be something more appropriate in nature, whatever that might end up being?

And for much the same reason as a Stone Mage and his Gem Magic has issues, I would be seriously tempted to for the same route here, damaging and even destroying the gem used in this single use item. It would depend to a degree how badly "abused" this single use item rule ends up being. Having a Techno-Wizard that has his PPE to pump into a variety of items, and then the ability to toss various other spells around without expense is troubling to a degree. And other magic users can do the same, though this is only equally as troubling.

The real kicker is that non-mystical classes could end up walking around with these things. Imagine the havoc a Juicer could cause with a pocket Superhuman strength item, or a negate magic when you try to magic net or carpet of adhesion him while he is standing on ferrocrete?

it really isn't as good as you think it is.

his impervious to fire box would take 12 PPE to charge, 13,650 credits to make (assuming we don't optimize, i'm confident more gems could get a much better result), and could be used as many times as you want.

also, he's got his costs wrong; it should be 1,288 credits to make one, i think.

of course, i can't be sure. my personal interpretation of the quote (which, by the way, is RUE page 130, not 193) is that you apply all those modifiers at the end. i don't think it was intended to be applied at each stage, but rather to the final numbers after the whole thing has been designed.

however, even if not, it should still be 1,038 credits to make one (if everything else is factored in to the equation at each step rather than being applied to the final numbers, then so is the number of carats of gems).

additionally, you can't do spell chains with single-use devices... so i was slightly wrong with my mention of basically any TW device being an option.

anyways, there is actually only a chance of being able to salvage gems from *any* TW device. it is 10% +4% per TW level. you can also only salvage some portion of the electronics and such as well. although i certainly agree, depending on what it is, you might not even get the chances for that (ie if your single use item is a TW grenade that casts meteor, you won't be getting anything back unless everything you used had an awful lot of MDC).

[Blue_Lion]

That 10+4% salvage chance is more than enough to make me happy with this concept then. I would probably even boost this with certain skill selections, say +10% if you take some sort of gem cutting skill, whatever that might turn out to be.

An its not that I have an intrinsic issue with the concept, but right now, a tech based character is paying out the rear for recharges, replacement clips, new weapons and armor. Things a magic using character typically isn't paying for, so they have scads of cash anyhow, and the only real things to spend them on are spell invocations, assuming you can buy them (I d so presume, this is Rifts, not PFRG/DnD after all.) Offering another magical option to them is dandy to me. My concern is if the Ley Line Walker opts to spend his cut of a million credit payday on one shot TW devices! There technically isn't anything wrong with this, but now he basically has the option to have a battle wizard and a utility wizard in his pockets, in addition to his own P.P.E. powered spells!

And I won't allow non-MAge/Psi characters to use TW devices unless it is fairly plain that such a device is intended to be used by anyone. This includes one shots, since they are already "charged" and ready to go (are they treated as active magic for Dog Boys and Stalker then?), and P.P.E. clip fed weapons, since spare P.P.E. clips are somewhat uncommon, and notably more expensive to buy (40,000 each) and refill (6,000-12,000 depending, and the mage recharging them has to know the Talisman spell as well...though this is a bit dodgy, since the next paragraph makes it sound like any make can pump P.P.E. into them to fire them OR recharge them. If they are P.P.E. clip fed, how can you recharge the weapon, and does this sidestep the need for knowing the Talisman invocation or not?)

Aww unless they are using to buy things they need already, you know learning new spells by purchas. buying TW gear. Then lets not forget replacing custom armor that is probaly 70% hand made. There are lots of things mages need to spend there credits on. On top of that they may need to recharge E-clips replace gear and muntions they use.

[Blue_Lion]

Here is a fun Idea, when a TW cast normal spells he needs a tech focus to cast at full power. Given that if a TW wanted to cast a talisman spell to create a talisman for another spell. What form whould it take, how whould handle its form? Is the PPE-clip a PPE tailisman kinda thing, whould they not have a tech apearnce and be posible for some limited use TW deviceses.

[Comrade Corsarius]

And I won't allow non-MAge/Psi characters to use TW devices unless it is fairly plain that such a device is intended to be used by anyone. This includes one shots, since they are already "charged" and ready to go (are they treated as active magic for Dog Boys and Stalker then?), and P.P.E. clip fed weapons, since spare P.P.E. clips are somewhat uncommon, and notably more expensive to buy (40,000 each) and refill (6,000-12,000 depending, and the mage recharging them has to know the Talisman spell as well...though this is a bit dodgy, since the next paragraph makes it sound like any make can pump P.P.E. into them to fire them OR recharge them. If they are P.P.E. clip fed, how can you recharge the weapon, and does this sidestep the need for knowing the Talisman invocation or not?)

I don't know about that, but the TW Firebolt weapons used by Queenstown Harbour (SB4: Coalition Navy) are specifically mentioned as TW devices that only require PPE to charge them. It goes on to say that said weapons are charged at a ley line/pyramid/by a mage, then can be used by anyone, but can only be reloaded as previous.

[Blue_Lion]

And I won't allow non-MAge/Psi characters to use TW devices unless it is fairly plain that such a device is intended to be used by anyone. This includes one shots, since they are already "charged" and ready to go (are they treated as active magic for Dog Boys and Stalker then?), and P.P.E. clip fed weapons, since spare P.P.E. clips are somewhat uncommon, and notably more expensive to buy (40,000 each) and refill (6,000-12,000 depending, and the mage recharging them has to know the Talisman spell as well...though this is a bit dodgy, since the next paragraph makes it sound like any make can pump P.P.E. into them to fire them OR recharge them. If they are P.P.E. clip fed, how can you recharge the weapon, and does this sidestep the need for knowing the Talisman invocation or not?)

I don't know about that, but the TW Firebolt weapons used by Queenstown Harbour (SB4: Coalition Navy) are specifically mentioned as TW devices that only require PPE to charge them. It goes on to say that said weapons are charged at a ley line/pyramid/by a mage, then can be used by anyone, but can only be reloaded as previous.

That is because they are an expection not the rule. They made a few exeptions over the years. But giving that it is related to pearmid magic it may be a case of them over assining the TW title. Like the kinset weapons in the same book, they are from aliens unlimited and it is the property of the metle that turns them into MDC, but then that book proclaimed them TW items. Also was the dwarf tech used to make them not a fluffed a form of rune magic?

[Shark_Force]

for single-use buffs, i'd say some form of injection device would make sense.

as far as devices being usable by ordinary people, it's right in RUE, in the TW section. the TW designing the device decides if it will be usable by ordinary people or not, and there is no cost difference. it still requires someone capable of powering the device, of course (ordinary people can do that if the device is designed to use HP as a power source, which requires an extra spell chain, or the device can store PPE or run off a ley line).

obviously, as a GM you can rule differently... but the rules say that it's just a decision the TW makes when designing the device if a regular person can use it or not.

[Blue_Lion]

for single-use buffs, i'd say some form of injection device would make sense.

as far as devices being usable by ordinary people, it's right in RUE, in the TW section. the TW designing the device decides if it will be usable by ordinary people or not, and there is no cost difference. it still requires someone capable of powering the device, of course (ordinary people can do that if the device is designed to use HP as a power source, which requires an extra spell chain, or the device can store PPE or run off a ley line).

obviously, as a GM you can rule differently... but the rules say that it's just a decision the TW makes when designing the device if a regular person can use it or not.

That is one of the things that people find muncking about the rules that where put in RUE for TWs. The orginal concept was no none mages using most of them.

By the way you only half right, it is an option but you are forgetting one thing.
Page 130 Note: players do not choose the exact final effects of a TW device. It is always the game master's call as exactly how something turns out.

So you may think that you are making it so any one can use but the GM can still say it only works for psi- mages and that is the rule not a house rule.

By the way Item 2 on page 130 does have changes to the formila for single uses.

[Blue_Lion]

@ Comrade Cosarius, ref Queenstown Harbor Firebolt weapons...
Special case there. they are clearly design to be TW weapons which function on internal PPE reserves, but are ALSO intended for non-mystically inclined people to use. So I would have no issue here really, and I would even allow PCs to make such items, but I would insist on an additional cost effect in making them useable by "mundanes". I am not real sure such a thing exists right now, but I would feel compelled to add it. I would make it a notable but not crippling expense too, since it could be gotten around by putting an activation switch (i.e., a trigger...literally...) and a P.P.E. clip option in. I might have to play with the balance on this for a bit though, as I don't want to hamstring an entire class of casters really.

@ Blue_Lion, Ref the form of a TW one shot device...
Two thights here...
1) I like the grenade option, so a similar approach tends to work pretty well.

2) On the other hand, there is something to be said for a M-79 40mm Grenade Launcher that is intended to fire off some sort of explosive spell, and then needs to be recharged. Or a flame thrower to fire a fire spell effect to sustain it. And lastly, I admit to being amused by digging up an old law style weapon, such as the M-72, for a single shot Starbolt spell or something similarly powerful.

Non-combat effects would be a bit harder to encompass, but it would really depend on the spell. You could go with a generic container, say a ceramic sphere with a mark on the outside to tell you what it is, or something more specific instead. If you use the idea of emotionally charged items, then a specific focus would be better, and it would change depending on who found it. If not, the generic approach might be workable as well.

No I asked for the form of a TW made tailman how whould you think those normaly work?

[Comrade Corsarius]

for single-use buffs, i'd say some form of injection device would make sense.

I really like that.

TW Hypospray
The TW Hypospray is a device allegedly created by a Body Fixer who could work miracles and through this discovered he was a techno-wizard. An apocryphal addendum to this tale is that the TW went by the name 'Jim Bones', although most scholars agree this is unlikely.

The hypospray usually comes in a small case and appears like an oversized fountain pen, along with several clear cartridges that glow different colours (depending on effect). To use, one must take a cartridge from the case and insert it into the hypospray, which is then pushed against the neck and a stud pressed on the side. A 'hissing' sound and the absence of a glow at the end of the cartridge indicates a successful injection. The spell then takes immediate effect. Once the cartridge has been expended, it cannot be reused unless a TW refills it with other spells (effectively rebuilding it), or it is replaced. Unwilling recipients get a bonus to save, however this is severely reduced due to the direct nature of the injection. The following effects are available (but not limited to):

Blue - Sleep
Green - Superhuman Speed
Red - Superhuman Strength
Violet - Invulnerability
Yellow - Sorcerous Fury
Orange - Befuddle
Cyan - Paralysis (lesser)
Golden - Mute (silence, after all, is golden)
Silver - Blind
Murky green - Swim as a Fish
White - Lifeblast (used as an emergency injection)
Brown - Metamorphisis - Animal
Pale yellow - Reduce self to 6 inches
Dark Blue - Magical-adrenal rush
Crimson - Super-healing
Black - Ensorcel
Cream Tangerine - Climb
Blue and Green swirls - Fear (works on subject)
Deep Purple - Fly as the eagle - this colour can also be time slip
White with tiny black newspaper text - Repel animals
Technicoloured like the inside of a kaleidoscope - See Aura
Gold and silver swirls - Negate poison/toxin