Vampire Kingdoms Revised- Cross Lights

[DevastationBob]

I did a quick search and it doesn't look like anyone has brought this up yet. In the new Vampire Kingdoms book, Doc Reid says that cross spotlights don't damage vamps. However in the rules in the original Vampire Kingdoms you're given damage for just that, it wasn't anecdotal, it was the rules. I mean, it's not Rifts 2nd edition or anything, but i've had characters hurt and drive off vampires with cross spotlights before. Just doesn't seem right. Anyone else notice this?

[Eclipse]

Up to you I guess. Maybe the writers had crossed wires.. I'd favor the holy symbol having an effect.

[kaid]

In revised it appears they do not hurt vamps but can be used to ward them off where they will back off from the beam. I kinda liked the flash lights of death.

[Killer Cyborg]

Rifts Ultimate Edition is a new edition.
VKr is updated for this new edition.
There have been some rule changes.

[Zamion138]

i like that they do damadge, its not a kill weapon, its basicly a slight burn,ill still be using them.
i think it gives the average person a means of cheap defense

[Icefalcon]

I like the idea of them not doing damage anymore. It makes the fight a little more difficult.

[Nightmask]

I like the idea of them not doing damage anymore. It makes the fight a little more difficult.

Like vampires were so easy to kill before...

[Zamion138]

I like the idea of them not doing damage anymore. It makes the fight a little more difficult.

Like vampires were so easy to kill before...

Serriuly palladium vamps are brutal

[Shark_Force]

eh, i gotta agree. while i'm not a huge fan of the retcon, i can't argue that having a town wave flashlights around to destroy vampires, with the number of vampires attacking being relatively unimportant (plus working on them in any form, so far as i can tell) felt a bit weird... i mean, why would everyone be worried about vampires if all you had to do was put some tape across the front of your flashlight and you can harm dozens of vampires every action?

(and if you upgrade to a spotlight or something, daaang... no, it isn't much per attack, but it's not like you can really dodge it effectively when you can just basically cover a massive swathe in a second or two).

[Killer Cyborg]

eh, i gotta agree. while i'm not a huge fan of the retcon, i can't argue that having a town wave flashlights around to destroy vampires, with the number of vampires attacking being relatively unimportant (plus working on them in any form, so far as i can tell) felt a bit weird... i mean, why would everyone be worried about vampires if all you had to do was put some tape across the front of your flashlight and you can harm dozens of vampires every action?

Because all they have to do is throw a rock, and that flashlight breaks.
Or they can have a summoned wolf grab it.
Or you might drop it when the swarm of countless cockroaches starts covering your body.
Or maybe you keep it, but they stay just out of its reach in the fog.

The only real problem with the original vampires was that GMs seem to have played them as idiots who don't know their own powers and tactics, and who mindlessly charge into combat naked.

I suspect that will be a problem with the newer vampires too, though.

[Shark_Force]

if everyone is using junky dollar store flashlights, sure you can smash them. on the other hand, if you've got some decent quality ones, they can take a beating. i think some security flashlights can actually double as a bludgeoning weapon (which is not the same thing as that being recommended, admittedly). plus, i mean, even today a hand held portable flashlight can have pretty crazy range. trying to pick off a flashlight with a rock from 300 feet or something like that isn't gonna be easy.

and yes, the vampires can summon stuff, and yes, wolf packs are pretty scary in large numbers to regular people... but a few automatic weapons will do a lot to prevent that from being an unstoppable threat either. cockroaches, i can't remember the range on that ability... i suspect that if you've got some decent spotlights, a town will be able to strike back far more effectively in any case.

if you just keep sweeping an area with those spotlights, it can be pretty danged hard to get through at all. some of the lack of threat of vampires is probably due to poor play i admit, but some of it is just due to easy access to extremely effective or even devastating weapons against them. they have pretty awesome abilities (and striking from ambush can be a terrifying foe - though to be fair, that is true of most things), but some of the vulnerabilities just feel like a bit too much.

[Nightmask]

if everyone is using junky dollar store flashlights, sure you can smash them. on the other hand, if you've got some decent quality ones, they can take a beating. i think some security flashlights can actually double as a bludgeoning weapon (which is not the same thing as that being recommended, admittedly). plus, i mean, even today a hand held portable flashlight can have pretty crazy range. trying to pick off a flashlight with a rock from 300 feet or something like that isn't gonna be easy.

and yes, the vampires can summon stuff, and yes, wolf packs are pretty scary in large numbers to regular people... but a few automatic weapons will do a lot to prevent that from being an unstoppable threat either. cockroaches, i can't remember the range on that ability... i suspect that if you've got some decent spotlights, a town will be able to strike back far more effectively in any case.

if you just keep sweeping an area with those spotlights, it can be pretty danged hard to get through at all. some of the lack of threat of vampires is probably due to poor play i admit, but some of it is just due to easy access to extremely effective or even devastating weapons against them. they have pretty awesome abilities (and striking from ambush can be a terrifying foe - though to be fair, that is true of most things), but some of the vulnerabilities just feel like a bit too much.

You're over-estimating how effective they'd be at stopping a vampire let alone a variety of them demonstrating basic intelligence and strategy. For example, how many flashlights do you know of that still work through tar? Or spotlights for that matter? Oh sure, let's credit them with simple MDC structures (that you could still snipe and destroy from a safe distance), how much good does that do when you've blocked the light at the source? They aren't and never were a slam-dunk defense against vampires, especially in quantities. Their most effective use was as part of a comprehensive package as is the case with most defenses.

[Icefalcon]

I like the idea of them not doing damage anymore. It makes the fight a little more difficult.

Like vampires were so easy to kill before...

To experienced vampire hunters? Not really that difficult.

[Icefalcon]

While I agree that good tactics would defeat the flashlight/spotlight defense easily with some thought, that was not my reason for not liking the damaging aspect of the light. In mythology, the cross does nothing but repel the vampire, not harm it. I like it better without the damage factor. It seems more in keeping with the flavor.

[MurderCityDisciple]

I'm not in favor of crosses having any effect what-so-ever on vampires.

Why would the symbolic representation of an Earthly ancient torture device have any effect on an symbiotic alien intelligence inhabiting a human shell?

Last time I checked there wasn't any mention of Jesus in Rifts or any other Palladium products.

Anything biological I'm cool with....even the squirtguns.

It's a good thing the Romans didn't break out the Pear of Anguish on Jesus or folks might be wearing vicious little rectal wreckers around their necks.

[Eclipse]

It's any holy symbol, and it has mystical properties that these particular supernatural creatures are vulnerable to is all. (Supernatural = can ignore certain physical realities) Anyway I always found the huge vulnerability to normal flowing water to be dumb - if it's holy water and thus in relatively short supply that's ok however to my mind.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I'm not in favor of crosses having any effect what-so-ever on vampires.

Why would the symbolic representation of an Earthly ancient torture device have any effect on an symbiotic alien intelligence inhabiting a human shell?

Last time I checked there wasn't any mention of Jesus in Rifts or any other Palladium products.

Anything biological I'm cool with....even the squirtguns.

It's a good thing the Romans didn't break out the Pear of Anguish on Jesus or folks might be wearing vicious little rectal wreckers around their necks.

There's the fire and brimstone preacher in new west, Christianity is mentioned in the russia books and the CS NPC diologe snippets in the coalition war campaign books reference god and the coalition states as a nation under god several times.

[Nightmask]

I'm not in favor of crosses having any effect what-so-ever on vampires.

Why would the symbolic representation of an Earthly ancient torture device have any effect on an symbiotic alien intelligence inhabiting a human shell?

Last time I checked there wasn't any mention of Jesus in Rifts or any other Palladium products.

Because Palladium doesn't feel it has a profit margin that can handle it if/when some nut decides to sue them because frivolous lawsuits cost money not because Christianity doesn't exist in Rifts, same with Islam and Judaism. They exist but Palladium doesn't bring them up to avoid the nuts (not they aren't in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation, since some have said on the forums that they were abandoning Palladium because it doesn't include Christianity).

[Greyaxe]

eh, i gotta agree. while i'm not a huge fan of the retcon, i can't argue that having a town wave flashlights around to destroy vampires, with the number of vampires attacking being relatively unimportant (plus working on them in any form, so far as i can tell) felt a bit weird... i mean, why would everyone be worried about vampires if all you had to do was put some tape across the front of your flashlight and you can harm dozens of vampires every action?

Because all they have to do is throw a rock, and that flashlight breaks.
Or they can have a summoned wolf grab it.
Or you might drop it when the swarm of countless cockroaches starts covering your body.
Or maybe you keep it, but they stay just out of its reach in the fog.

The only real problem with the original vampires was that GMs seem to have played them as idiots who don't know their own powers and tactics, and who mindlessly charge into combat naked.

I suspect that will be a problem with the newer vampires too, though.

My GM very recently used all their tactics to try to kill our party, who were protected by many many Globes of Daylight. They summoned vermin and insects, the killed people and threw their body parts to invoke HF checks then attacked us with Mind Control and wolves. Once we fled they chased our vehicle until dawn. We barely escaped with our lives and there were only 9 secondary vampires.

[Blue_Lion]

I like the idea of them not doing damage anymore. It makes the fight a little more difficult.

Like vampires were so easy to kill before...

Serriuly palladium vamps are brutal

Tell that to the people that wine that moving water hurts them.

[Blue_Lion]

eh, i gotta agree. while i'm not a huge fan of the retcon, i can't argue that having a town wave flashlights around to destroy vampires, with the number of vampires attacking being relatively unimportant (plus working on them in any form, so far as i can tell) felt a bit weird... i mean, why would everyone be worried about vampires if all you had to do was put some tape across the front of your flashlight and you can harm dozens of vampires every action?

Because all they have to do is throw a rock, and that flashlight breaks.
Or they can have a summoned wolf grab it.
Or you might drop it when the swarm of countless cockroaches starts covering your body.
Or maybe you keep it, but they stay just out of its reach in the fog.

The only real problem with the original vampires was that GMs seem to have played them as idiots who don't know their own powers and tactics, and who mindlessly charge into combat naked.

I suspect that will be a problem with the newer vampires too, though.

Not just vampires but most NPC hostle encounters.

[MurderCityDisciple]

I'm not in favor of crosses having any effect what-so-ever on vampires.

Why would the symbolic representation of an Earthly ancient torture device have any effect on an symbiotic alien intelligence inhabiting a human shell?

Last time I checked there wasn't any mention of Jesus in Rifts or any other Palladium products.

Because Palladium doesn't feel it has a profit margin that can handle it if/when some nut decides to sue them because frivolous lawsuits cost money not because Christianity doesn't exist in Rifts, same with Islam and Judaism. They exist but Palladium doesn't bring them up to avoid the nuts (not they aren't in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation, since some have said on the forums that they were abandoning Palladium because it doesn't include Christianity).

Good riddance.

I've had the misfortune of playing in two very Christian games in my sick sad life.

The first time, I was young maybe 11 or 12 at most, and a kid in my Roleplaying Game Class (cool thing at my school they let us create our own electives one year and a bunch of us came up with a RPG class. Twice a week sessions for one semester) ran a cleric who was a Christian and he spent too much time preaching to the orcs and us rather than fighting and looting. He actually had a Bible on hand. I thought D&D was all about Satan?

But the worst Christian roleplaying experience was at a mini-convention Star Trek game where the pre-genned characters were all crewman of the USS Redeemer where we went around the galaxy on a five year CRUSADE preaching the gospel. I actually got to play a Klingon who specialized in baptizing folks and carried a cross shaped Bat Lef that he would either hold up during sermons or bash folks with (it was designed to knock out not kill). More than once we set our phasers to stun while the GM who played the Captain/Preacher would stop and actually break into mini-sermons (for the players sake!!...the whole frikken sermon). More than once we converted strange aliens to Christianity after we blasted them. In one case the ships surgeon administered drugs to a alien warlord because he was too antagonistic and outspoken . It has to be probably the worst gaming experience of my life. I quit after 3 agonizing hours. I called the GM a bad name as I walked away.

Sorry...a bit ranty.

[Zamion138]

That would have been a hoot to play in and just slyly bringing up contradictions and asking moraly relavent questions about why god hadnt visted this planet before you got there earlier.
I would have enjoyed trying to make the gm rage quit is all im saying

[Razzinold]

Even if flashlights with a cross could damage a vamp, the person holding it can only face on direction at a time. Why bother summoning bugs and throwing rocks when you could have one vamp face the person (so the flashlight is pointed in that direction) but stay just out of reach while the other vamp sneaks up behind them grabs them by the throat and sticks the flashlight where the sun doesn't shine?

Even if there was more then one person, attack them from one side only while a couple sneak up on them while their backs are turned.
As for the cross thing itself, I liked how in I Am Legend by Richard Mathesson the cross worked on one vamp, but not on another. He figured out the vamp was Jewish before he was turned so the cross didn't work but a symbol from the Jewish faith did. He also figured out the cross worked on some vamps who were athiest because the legend of the cross was passed to them so it was a mental thing more than a physical one. They were told to fear it (obviously by christian vamps) so they did.

[Subjugator]

I had a character that once took a disco ball and painted crosses on every single mirror on the thing. I stupidly forgot to make it MDC and it got toasted. I was going to make an MDC one, but I think if one of my players did that, my vamps would start using paint grenades, mud, and lots of stuff that would cover the generator of that spotlight.

One idea I like is that of a magical (and portable) moat. Pump in some P.P.E. and *poof*, a moat appears!

Venice: the most vampire free place on earth.

/Sub

[Killer Cyborg]

if everyone is using junky dollar store flashlights, sure you can smash them. on the other hand, if you've got some decent quality ones, they can take a beating. i think some security flashlights can actually double as a bludgeoning weapon (which is not the same thing as that being recommended, admittedly). plus, i mean, even today a hand held portable flashlight can have pretty crazy range. trying to pick off a flashlight with a rock from 300 feet or something like that isn't gonna be easy.

Vampires in Rifts have supernatural Strength. They can throw rock through cars.
Heck, they can just throw cars instead.

and yes, the vampires can summon stuff, and yes, wolf packs are pretty scary in large numbers to regular people... but a few automatic weapons will do a lot to prevent that from being an unstoppable threat either.

It doesn't have to be undstoppable, just useful.
In the context, you get a couple dozen wolves on you, wrestling for that flashlight, and the flashlight won't be an issue for long.
Now, if you have a dozen people with AK-47s backing you up, those wolves won't last for long.
But that doesn't mean they can't get that flashlight first, and during the tussle, the light won't be much bother to the vampires.

And keep in mind, you just changed the scenario from "a flashlight is a really powerful weapon against vampires" to "A flashlight backed up by automatic weapons (presumably with silver bullets*), is a really powerful weapon."


*Because if you're NOT using silver bullets, then that vampire or two in wolf form that's mixed in with the crowd is probably going to cause you problems.

cockroaches, i can't remember the range on that ability... i suspect that if you've got some decent spotlights, a town will be able to strike back far more effectively in any case.

As for the range limit on summoned vermin, there isn't one. Only a duration of 20 minutes per level.

And now we've moved from flashlights to spotlights, defending towns.
Well, if vampires are attacking a town, the odds are good that they'll just bring a gun or two and shoot the lights out, if they're out of other ideas for bypassing or destroying them.

if you just keep sweeping an area with those spotlights, it can be pretty danged hard to get through at all.

We know the damage for different cross-lights, but we don't have a standard for how long the cross has to be on the vampire to work, other than that we can assume that the damage is listed per attack, and that we know that "one attack" is generally assumed by Palladium to be 2-3 seconds.
So sweeping a light over a vampire briefly might not do anything, if it glances over them too swiftly.
It seems to work out as a single-shot weapon, not a burst/spray weapon, as far as the rules go.

Also, it's not clear about the penetration level of this kind of attack, unfortunately.
I get the impression that it works through normal clothes, so you don't need a Called Shot just to get past street clothes, but what about heavy clothing like trench coats?
Armor?
What about an umbrella? Or a sheet/tarp being held in front of the body of the vamp?
If that sheet gets riddled with bullet holes, and some of the light gets through, does the "shadow of the cross" still work, or does it become more of "the shadow of a sheet with some holes in it?"

Personally, I'm guessing that it's this kind of complication that's behind Palladium's elimination of the vulnerability, at least as much as people's complaints that vampires were too weak.

some of the lack of threat of vampires is probably due to poor play i admit, but some of it is just due to easy access to extremely effective or even devastating weapons against them. they have pretty awesome abilities (and striking from ambush can be a terrifying foe - though to be fair, that is true of most things), but some of the vulnerabilities just feel like a bit too much.

I think that the vast bulk of the complaints stem purely from poor play and/or lack of ingenuity on the part of the GM.
They seem to run vampire encounters as "vampires equipped only with normal clothing or rags, openly approaching heavily armed PCs who have plenty of anti-vampire gear."
But if the PCs are heavily armed, the vamps aren't going to just stroll on up to them unarmed, unarmored, and unequipped, not unless they're particularly stupid or desperate vampires.

[Subjugator]

Considering a determined group of vampires could build an army about 300,000 strong within 72 hours, I'd say that they're pretty damned powerful.

/Sub

[Nightmask]

I'm not in favor of crosses having any effect what-so-ever on vampires.

Why would the symbolic representation of an Earthly ancient torture device have any effect on an symbiotic alien intelligence inhabiting a human shell?

Last time I checked there wasn't any mention of Jesus in Rifts or any other Palladium products.

Because Palladium doesn't feel it has a profit margin that can handle it if/when some nut decides to sue them because frivolous lawsuits cost money not because Christianity doesn't exist in Rifts, same with Islam and Judaism. They exist but Palladium doesn't bring them up to avoid the nuts (not they aren't in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation, since some have said on the forums that they were abandoning Palladium because it doesn't include Christianity).

Good riddance.

I've had the misfortune of playing in two very Christian games in my sick sad life.

The first time, I was young maybe 11 or 12 at most, and a kid in my Roleplaying Game Class (cool thing at my school they let us create our own electives one year and a bunch of us came up with a RPG class. Twice a week sessions for one semester) ran a cleric who was a Christian and he spent too much time preaching to the orcs and us rather than fighting and looting. He actually had a Bible on hand. I thought D&D was all about Satan?

But the worst Christian roleplaying experience was at a mini-convention Star Trek game where the pre-genned characters were all crewman of the USS Redeemer where we went around the galaxy on a five year CRUSADE preaching the gospel. I actually got to play a Klingon who specialized in baptizing folks and carried a cross shaped Bat Lef that he would either hold up during sermons or bash folks with (it was designed to knock out not kill). More than once we set our phasers to stun while the GM who played the Captain/Preacher would stop and actually break into mini-sermons (for the players sake!!...the whole frikken sermon). More than once we converted strange aliens to Christianity after we blasted them. In one case the ships surgeon administered drugs to a alien warlord because he was too antagonistic and outspoken . It has to be probably the worst gaming experience of my life. I quit after 3 agonizing hours. I called the GM a bad name as I walked away.

Sorry...a bit ranty.

Don't go faulting Christianity for the failings of a few bad GM (or bad players), you see those exact problems happen with completely made up religions in games as well. They present a caricature of the actual religion because they either have issues with it (like an atheist wanting to denigrate a rival belief system) or because they just don't know or understand how to include it so it doesn't become a problem. Palladium can only do so much and just too many on the fringes around for them to want to deal with the hassle, with the best they can generally do is include the cross as a religious icon to ward off vampires 'with the reasons why lost to history'.

[MurderCityDisciple]

I'm not in favor of crosses having any effect what-so-ever on vampires.

Why would the symbolic representation of an Earthly ancient torture device have any effect on an symbiotic alien intelligence inhabiting a human shell?

Last time I checked there wasn't any mention of Jesus in Rifts or any other Palladium products.

Because Palladium doesn't feel it has a profit margin that can handle it if/when some nut decides to sue them because frivolous lawsuits cost money not because Christianity doesn't exist in Rifts, same with Islam and Judaism. They exist but Palladium doesn't bring them up to avoid the nuts (not they aren't in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation, since some have said on the forums that they were abandoning Palladium because it doesn't include Christianity).

Good riddance.

I've had the misfortune of playing in two very Christian games in my sick sad life.

The first time, I was young maybe 11 or 12 at most, and a kid in my Roleplaying Game Class (cool thing at my school they let us create our own electives one year and a bunch of us came up with a RPG class. Twice a week sessions for one semester) ran a cleric who was a Christian and he spent too much time preaching to the orcs and us rather than fighting and looting. He actually had a Bible on hand. I thought D&D was all about Satan?

But the worst Christian roleplaying experience was at a mini-convention Star Trek game where the pre-genned characters were all crewman of the USS Redeemer where we went around the galaxy on a five year CRUSADE preaching the gospel. I actually got to play a Klingon who specialized in baptizing folks and carried a cross shaped Bat Lef that he would either hold up during sermons or bash folks with (it was designed to knock out not kill). More than once we set our phasers to stun while the GM who played the Captain/Preacher would stop and actually break into mini-sermons (for the players sake!!...the whole frikken sermon). More than once we converted strange aliens to Christianity after we blasted them. In one case the ships surgeon administered drugs to a alien warlord because he was too antagonistic and outspoken . It has to be probably the worst gaming experience of my life. I quit after 3 agonizing hours. I called the GM a bad name as I walked away.

Sorry...a bit ranty.

Don't go faulting Christianity for the failings of a few bad GM (or bad players), you see those exact problems happen with completely made up religions in games as well. They present a caricature of the actual religion because they either have issues with it (like an atheist wanting to denigrate a rival belief system) or because they just don't know or understand how to include it so it doesn't become a problem. Palladium can only do so much and just too many on the fringes around for them to want to deal with the hassle, with the best they can generally do is include the cross as a religious icon to ward off vampires 'with the reasons why lost to history'.

I just find there was no need to inject, hell more like pound the GM's Christian personal philosophy down our unwilling throats. Just pure tacky if you want my opinion.

As far as the cross being used as a weapon against alien vampires..cuz aliens really are what they are. It's again personal preference. I see Palladium vampires as alien invaders, not creatures spawned from Christian mythology. I can accept maybe that a person of faiths own pure willpower might be able to repel a vampire...maybe. Or maybe even something like the scene from The Mist where the Holy Roller prays/wills the killer mosquito not to poke her in the throat. It's more willpower, than supernatural intervention.

Either way, if I play in a game where crosses and holy water whoop up on vamps or in my own where the religious 'I kick ass for the Lord' stuff is toned down I realize it's just a game and not to get bent out of shape either way.

Really... It's all about putting the fun back in funerals.

[Killer Cyborg]

As far as the cross being used as a weapon against alien vampires..cuz aliens really are what they are. It's again personal preference. I see Palladium vampires as alien invaders, not creatures spawned from Christian mythology.

1. It's not an either/or thing. Just because they're alien invaders doesn't mean that they're not creatures from Christian mythology.
2. It never says anywhere that the Palladium vampires' issue with crosses has ANYTHING to do with Jesus.

[MurderCityDisciple]

As far as the cross being used as a weapon against alien vampires..cuz aliens really are what they are. It's again personal preference. I see Palladium vampires as alien invaders, not creatures spawned from Christian mythology.

1. It's not an either/or thing. Just because they're alien invaders doesn't mean that they're not creatures from Christian mythology.
2. It never says anywhere that the Palladium vampires' issue with crosses has ANYTHING to do with Jesus.

I'm confused....how can vampires be creatures from Christian mythology but not have anything to do with Jesus (ya know that cross thingy)?

If we go pre-cross era, the fish was a symbol for Christianity.

"Back you fiend!! In my hands here I have a holy mackerel!!" (then fish wielder does a 'Monty Python' style fish slap on the vampire lords face.)

[Nightmask]

As far as the cross being used as a weapon against alien vampires..cuz aliens really are what they are. It's again personal preference. I see Palladium vampires as alien invaders, not creatures spawned from Christian mythology.

1. It's not an either/or thing. Just because they're alien invaders doesn't mean that they're not creatures from Christian mythology.
2. It never says anywhere that the Palladium vampires' issue with crosses has ANYTHING to do with Jesus.

I'm confused....how can vampires be creatures from Christian mythology but not have anything to do with Jesus (ya know that cross thingy)?

If we go pre-cross era, the fish was a symbol for Christianity.

"Back you fiend!! In my hands here I have a holy mackerel!!" (then fish wielder does a 'Monty Python' style fish slap on the vampire lords face.)

Well things have to start somewhere as a symbol, they don't generally just *poof* always constitute one. Jesus effectively transformed the image of the cross into a symbol of his faith via his crucifixion, giving it power over evil as a result. Also given anything not explicitly from Christ/God is considered from Satan (there is no 'take a third option' after all) Vampires and vampire intelligences being not of God are inherently of the other side so the Cross becomes one of their banes.

[Killer Cyborg]

As far as the cross being used as a weapon against alien vampires..cuz aliens really are what they are. It's again personal preference. I see Palladium vampires as alien invaders, not creatures spawned from Christian mythology.

1. It's not an either/or thing. Just because they're alien invaders doesn't mean that they're not creatures from Christian mythology.
2. It never says anywhere that the Palladium vampires' issue with crosses has ANYTHING to do with Jesus.

I'm confused....how can vampires be creatures from Christian mythology but not have anything to do with Jesus (ya know that cross thingy)?

I gave you two options.
I never said that they were necessarily compatible.

[MurderCityDisciple]

As far as the cross being used as a weapon against alien vampires..cuz aliens really are what they are. It's again personal preference. I see Palladium vampires as alien invaders, not creatures spawned from Christian mythology.

1. It's not an either/or thing. Just because they're alien invaders doesn't mean that they're not creatures from Christian mythology.
2. It never says anywhere that the Palladium vampires' issue with crosses has ANYTHING to do with Jesus.

I'm confused....how can vampires be creatures from Christian mythology but not have anything to do with Jesus (ya know that cross thingy)?

I gave you two options.
I never said that they were necessarily compatible.

The very fact that Palladium vampires obviously came from Hollywood and not the Bible (none in Bible last time I checked) makes both of our stances on the subject kinda silly. Kevin just added the alien gobbeldy-gook to za-zaam! it up a bit.

Other than the fact that Hollywood and by extension Palladium vampires do fear the cross because they are undead, godless creatures who embraced evil and thus not being big fans of J-man, does mean the cross has something to do with Christianity. Though it is Hollywood filtered Christianity.

[Killer Cyborg]

As far as the cross being used as a weapon against alien vampires..cuz aliens really are what they are. It's again personal preference. I see Palladium vampires as alien invaders, not creatures spawned from Christian mythology.

1. It's not an either/or thing. Just because they're alien invaders doesn't mean that they're not creatures from Christian mythology.
2. It never says anywhere that the Palladium vampires' issue with crosses has ANYTHING to do with Jesus.

I'm confused....how can vampires be creatures from Christian mythology but not have anything to do with Jesus (ya know that cross thingy)?

I gave you two options.
I never said that they were necessarily compatible.

The very fact that Palladium vampires obviously came from Hollywood and not the Bible (none in Bible last time I checked) makes both of our stances on the subject kinda silly. Kevin just added the alien gobbeldy-gook to za-zaam! it up a bit.

Other than the fact that Hollywood and by extension Palladium vampires do fear the cross because they are undead, godless creatures who embraced evil and thus not being big fans of J-man, does mean the cross has something to do with Christianity. Though it is Hollywood filtered Christianity.

They got their vampire lore from a mix of real-world lore, movies, books, and other RPGs and such.
And yes, they wrote in a vulnerability to crosses because vampires in real-world lore, movies, books, etc. are generally vulnerable to crosses.
In those sources, yes, the vulnerability generally comes from the Christian God being thought to repel evil.

But that explanation is not given in the Palladium books; it's left open to interpretation.
Vampires have a weakness to crosses, that's all they tell us.
But crosses were used as symbols before Jesus, and crosses still affect vampires even on worlds where Christ never (that we know of) showed up, much less got crucified.
So if a GM wanted to rule that vampires have an issue with crosses for some other reason, they'd be in their rights- they would not be conflicting canon.

For that matter, there are religions other than Christianity that use holy water, and nothing in the books states that holy water has to be blessed by a Christian priest in order to affect vampires.

[Nightmask]

This of course only works if we presume none of the other religious symbols effect vampires, which I don't buy really. So, maybe a new theory needs to be created. I prefer the whole "true faith" concept myself, but I have had players do stuff like try to turn vampires with a copy of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, because he claimed it was his object of faith. Players are crazy, they will try anything, I swear!

Does that really surprise you though? Don't forget all the game material floating around for various systems including Palladium encouraging screwing with the players by having monsters that have odd weaknesses/vulnerabilities, I wouldn't be surprised if there actually was a GM who had it where you actually could ward off a vampire with a copy of the Hitchhiker's Guide.

[MikelAmroni]

I remember at least one fan theory from back in the day which explained the fact that crosses worked, and it basically boiled down the ankh, the egyptian symbol for life. If you take the Atlantean-Egyptian link to it's logical end, you could then say that the reason the cross works is because the Atlanteans made the ankh work (or found the ankh to work, your choice). The cross being similar in form to the ankh was an easy translation, and it's similarities are the reason they work in scaring and repulsing vampires. The fact that the cross just happened to come to represent the same symbol of life as the ankh is the stuff of conspiracy theories, but also makes for compelling gaming theory.

That said I allow ANY holy symbol held by a true believer to work like a cross. I just let the cross work for everyone, same as I let the ankh work for everyone. I also REALLY like the section in the revised VK book where Doc Reid scoffs at folks thinking running water killing them makes them weak. Granted it's a vaguely disguised jab at the naysayers who dislike Palladium vampires, but at the same time it's an amusing and interesting look at the realities of fighting with water if you aren't using TW. I also like the shadow of the cross working just fine to scare lesser wild and new secondary vampires. It makes it easy to manage wild vampires, while keeping the terror of secondary vampires "alive."

[Tor]

Do the rules of the book actually say that cross lights don't hurt vampires?

If not, then I'd say the damage stats from the original VK still apply (even if they were omitted) then the more likely explanation is that Doc Reid is lying, and he wants to reserve cross lights as an emergency weapon only available to the Rangers, to make them the best hunters in town.

Certain things from RMB were omitted in RUE too, but that doesn't mean they don't exist anymore, even if some untrustworthy evil NPC insists that they don't.