Why does one play Palladium Fantasy? A couple questions...

[dpenwood]

First off, this most is not meant to be provocative in nature. I'm stating that disclaimer because I can see how what I'm going to ask could be misconstrued as such. I do not mean it that way!

I played D&D for many years, from 1st edition up through 3.5. Lately I've been playing Rifts and Heroes Unlimited (and enjoying them).

A few weeks ago Kevin Siembieda and staff played a trick on me! In one of my Christmas Grab Bags, they decided to slip in a couple Palladium Fantasy books (the core book, Northern Hinterlands, and Western Empire). My first reaction was the reaction I always had with Palladium Fantasy: "Why would one play Palladium Fantasy when there are a bazillion other fantasy RPGs out there, including D&D?" My only exposure to Palladium Fantasy up until this point was playing for an hour with Kevin himself at the open house back in May.

So then I flipped through the book, and looked at the other Palladium Fantasy books that are for sale. I have to admit, it's looks like a pretty rich setting. I actually want to get my hands on the "Dragon & Gods" book and the "Old Ones".

My question: how popular is Palladium Fantasy really? I realize that's a vague question. When someone asks me "What is Palladium Fantasy?" and I describe it to them, how do you respond if/when they say, "Oh, so it's basically D&D but using Palladium's system?" That's already happened to me twice. Maybe, when it comes down to it, that's what it is, but I get the feeling that's an unfair over-simplification.

The other question I have, and I'm sure I'll learn more as I go through the books more: how "rich" is the Palladium Fantasy setting? I've been spoiled by Rifts where there is a book for every thing and every place. But I do see that there is a Palladium Fantasy universe and I'm wondering how deep it goes. Is it something you can dive deep into?

Thanks for reading!

[Zamion138]

its pretty damn deep as fantasy settings go, I can actualy think of anouther fantasy setting with as much source matrial and setting books. Its not like DnD with one or two book for say dragon lance, there are over 10 books just dealing with the one planet and mythos of the land. So many races and cultures.
Its kinda a dying game though as nothing new has came out for it in a long time (hades and dyval techinicly working for the game but seem actualy written more for rifts chars to go deal with.) its got a alot of players still though and far fewer problems rule wise as not so much range combat happens.
By the way if you read the errta on WP: battle axe id sugest not giving the extra 1d6 damedge at lv2 as it makes not taking a battle axe almost silly i dont like the shield rules and stats and costs and some of the gear prices are weird as 1 gold peice is the smallest form of currency but its a great setting and these are some darn minor rule and setting issues honestly.

[Hotrod]

I can't speak for DnD; I never played it. My basis for comparison is Rifts, which I also like. Since we're both familiar with Rifts, I'll stick to that comparison.

What I like about Palladium Fantasy:

1. The system seems to work better than Rifts. There aren't as many scenarios that stretch my suspension of disbelief as I see in Rifts.

2. It's a rich setting, and it's a sandbox. Each worldbook creates settings and adventure ideas on major regions without railroading any major events.

3. PF books tend to be fewer in number and higher in quality. Many of them have had major revisions and updates, something you rarely see in Rifts. The worldbooks don't crowd each other. There's enough overlap for good continuity, but not so much that you start seeing conflict between published material.

4. More background, less toys. (The slogan of the late Pete Overton, who had my favorite Rifts fan site.)

5. The toys they do have tend to be a lot more interesting and story-based, vs the "Here are 10 new ray guns" approach I see in so many Rifts supplements.

[zyanitevp]

One of the biggest differences is that you can play almost any race! So many others do not allow you to play a troll, for example.
The greatest part to me are the settings! You can play any time of game- Political Intrigue: No better than the Western Empire. Hack & Slash: You can make a case for anywhere. Monster Hunting?: Old Kingdom Seas: High Seas.
Heck, check out my game- the quest to rebuild Osiris, in my signature.

[dpenwood]

Wow, such great feedback! These responses have me very curious to explore in to Palladium Fantasy some more. I think a one-shot or two is in order... see what comes of them.

I especially liked Hot Rod's list, #3 and #5 in particular I can relate to.

Zamion mentioned that it's a dying game. Is that official, or does it just seem that way?

Zyanite: Added you as a favorite on Obsidian Portal. Campaign looks great!

[Lord Malachdrim]

Wow, such great feedback! These responses have me very curious to explore in to Palladium Fantasy some more. I think a one-shot or two is in order... see what comes of them.

I especially liked Hot Rod's list, #3 and #5 in particular I can relate to.

Zamion mentioned that it's a dying game. Is that official, or does it just seem that way?

Zyanite: Added you as a favorite on Obsidian Portal. Campaign looks great!

Feels like a dying game because of the lack of product and attention it's gotten the last few years. Last thing produced for it is mysteries of magic book 1 in 09 if I recall correctly. With Book 2 having not materialized. But that is an issue with the line in general. The Land of the Damned was suppose to be 3 books and book 2 came out in June of 02. The Old Kingdom Books were suppose to be out before even that. Meanwhile those of us who are Palladium Fantasy fans see a constant release of new Rifts stuff and when we do get new stuff it feels like it was written to bring the world more into Rifts.

[The Dark Elf]

Played it most weeks for 20 years (running the Place of Magic for my group atm!)

There is soooo much to do! Palladiums system allows deep characters with fast n flexible rules. It is a role playing/thinking mans game and doesnt lend itself that well to dungeons but everything above ground is sweet.

All you favourite fantasy stuff is in their but the gods are richer (in personality) and their are some real unique monsters and undead.

The OCC's cover everything but again have some unique classes such as diabolist and summoner/circle mage. The OCC's alos lend to an ability to play a darker mage should you wish.

There are multiple OCC rules but they dont not get carried away with too many different classes.

The parts of the world are rich in setting and described/mapped just enough in the books to fill the voids but allow any of your own creations just as much. that is why there is such a following even after a decade with only one release. We havent finished exploring the sourcebooks already published!! - After 20 years!!!

The Land of the Damned also makes for the ultimate journey to the gates of evil!

You can have adventures and fun from lvl 1 to lvl 15 and still meet challenging foes!

It uses the megaversal rules which is one reason we still play it - after a campaign we do a quick HU2 adventure then back to PFRPG, then NB, then back to PFRPG etc.

It is currently supported with several Rifter articles all worth a mention.

[DeadTOm]

Never actually played before but I own several of the books. I'd really like to start playing this game.

[MADMANMIKE]

It was my first Game Mastering experience back in 1989. I was a 15 year old noob and did a terrible job, but we all had fun and I've stuck with it since.

It is Role Play oriented, with plenty of great flavor text in each of the O.C.C.'s to give you and the GM lots of options for adventure right out of the gate.

I love The Old Ones, as the Timiro Kingdom gives a lifetime of adventure ideas, with 15 full pages of city maps (with up to 100 locations listed in each), and 25 town maps (with 20 to 100 locations listed each), many with NPCs described. There's also a few fort styles mapped and several fort locations done up like the towns. How many other Fantasy games have that much detail in one book 224 page book for only $25?

With the grab bag special you can make one purchase that will fuel gaming fun for a very very long time, and at a fraction of the price of other games. And since Palladium doesn't do "adventure module" books that are essentially one-shot adventures like all the other games, each book you buy is going to get used over and over without getting boring..

I'm running a PF game right now, with the player characters being in service to the Timiro Army. They started out as city patrol in Old Timiro, and are quickly becoming a special forces team that the Duke will send off on missions of great importance, leading to all sorts of fun. And how did I come up with this? I selected about 10 of the locations on one of the two maps for Old Timiro and built the adventure around them, coupled with the four paragraphs of political information given on the city.

Hope that help.

[kiralon]

1. First roleplaying game i played that wasnt single player

2. The world/s, The palladium world is has a lot of good info about the world, and it is mostly compatible with the other books in the palladium series. I have had palladium characters running around rifts and robotech. Ninjas and superspies characters running around in palladium (wolfen look a lot like werewolves mwahahaha) and beyond the supernatural, and turtles running around in heroes unlimited - with at at's. (hey i was 15).

3. The different types of magic. I play a hybrid 1st ed (didnt like the way skills changed or sdc for people in second ed) So you can play a wizard (standard 1st ed), a sorceror (mostly 1st ed wizard with ppe and spell costs out of second ed), a diabolist, mind mage, summoner, priest, druid, shaman, life force wizard, conjurer, witch and a few others, and the magic is mostly different enough to stand out from each other.

4. Palladium characters are fun to roll up, even after all this time (i literally have hundreds, my wife just cleaned out my roleplaying room and asked if i still needed em).

5. Its not dnd (which was enough for some of my players)

6. The game tends to be more story and interaction orientated then hack and slash. (I killed a level 35 ancient fire dragon and got 300xp and I just saved that village from a basalisk by talking to people and using my skills 1000xp)

7. Goblins aren't red or yellow, they're green. call me a purist.

8. Elves aren't midgets.

9. Palladium have spriggans that clobber you with menhirs.

10. You can shoot gnomes out of a troll crossbow.

11. Palladium is on the periodic table.

12. Bows can be scary, if a couple of bandits ambush you for your money its easier to give it to them, unlike other games where you go meh, a bow. Then walk up to him after being shot 10 times and breaking the bowman over your knee.

12a. Palladium fighters have different fighting styles. (if you play 1st ed)

14. Tends to turn off munchkins. (all the munchkins i know mostly play dnd and shadowrun)

[MADMANMIKE]

Personally, the biggest reason I like Palladium is that ingenuity is rewarded and not just shunned as in other games I have played. Countless times have I been told I couldn't attempt something because I didn't have a "feat" or something.

Example (True Story)
Me:"Can I try and jump up to grab the rope?"
GM: "I don't see why not... wait no you need a [insert perk or whatever that I cant remember] to do that sir."

I just love the freedom presented in Palladium, and the amount of world info is just spectacular.

This. It's why I roll my eyes when people complain about Palladium's system being incomplete.. All those extra little rules to 'cover the bases' just turn into the chains that shackle your creativity and stymie real role playing..

[Hotrod]

The system is a balance. In Rifts, there are a lot more factors to juggle than Palladium fantasy. That's why the system seems to fit better in Palladium. Some house ruling still needs to be done, but on the whole, it works very well.

[Zamion138]

It's balanced until your party has to fight grimbors .....then it's a meat grinder hehehehe

But honestly of the fantasy settings it's my favorite one, rules and system aside it has litterly one of best ideas and mythus in gaming



Edit-----auto corect corrected

[Juce734]

One of the best settings for an RPG.

Palladium Books does settings to near perfection.

[St. Evil]

Played it most weeks for 20 years (running the Place of Magic for my group atm!)

Would love to see any notes or musings, as you go through this. I am going to run this in the next six months if all goes to plan.


Back to the OP, most every one whom I introduced to the game still plays. Secondly its what you make of it, other than an excursion into the Eastern Territory I have spent more than 3 years using the Old Ones book for background. Have finally got to the point to where they will leave Old Timmiro after I put them through the Place of Magic. So it could be 4 years w/ one book, that is value. Plus I have not even used all the material, I could plumb for more adventure if I wanted.

[The Dark Elf]

Played it most weeks for 20 years (running the Place of Magic for my group atm!)

Would love to see any notes or musings, as you go through this. I am going to run this in the next six months if all goes to plan.

I dont really take notes but I'll let you know what difficulties I have with the adventure.

[Juce734]

Something else that always happens. If I pick up a book and just skim thru it I always come up with new adventure ideas. It doesn't matter what book it is because each one has so much packed into it.

[ZorValachan]

Personally, the biggest reason I like Palladium is that ingenuity is rewarded and not just shunned as in other games I have played. Countless times have I been told I couldn't attempt something because I didn't have a "feat" or something.

Example (True Story)
Me:"Can I try and jump up to grab the rope?"
GM: "I don't see why not... wait no you need a [insert perk or whatever that I cant remember] to do that sir."

I just love the freedom presented in Palladium, and the amount of world info is just spectacular.

This. It's why I roll my eyes when people complain about Palladium's system being incomplete.. All those extra little rules to 'cover the bases' just turn into the chains that shackle your creativity and stymie real role playing..

I find this false. Sounds like a GM's decision not a game/ruleset based one.
You use 'feat', so I assume the original comment means D+D. Their DMG has a 'catch-all' rule to determine any action that isn't in the books. very simple and applies to everything. It also encourages the GM to 'say yes' and let players help with the story.

I am not saying PB games don't allow it, just that the statement that other game do not allow it are false too.

[ZorValachan]

1) PFRPG monsters have myth based fantasy 'staples' (griffon, manticore), but a huge amount of unique monsters. A GM can surprise his players with a different new unique monster each game for years with the Monsters and Animals Book.

2) In the 1980s they had one of most varied allowable races. Now many games offer as many races, but PFRPG still has unique ones not found elsewhere.

3) Huge array of skills

4) More than 1 or 2 non-magical/mystical man-at-arms types.

5) I find PB's 'logic' of no half-races to be close to my own.

[ZorValachan]

OP wrote: When someone asks me "What is Palladium Fantasy?" and I describe it to them, how do you respond if/when they say, "Oh, so it's basically D&D but using Palladium's system?" That's already happened to me twice. Maybe, when it comes down to it, that's what it is, but I get the feeling that's an unfair over-simplification.

I would say it depends on which iteration of which game you were talking about.

With D+D, AD+D, 2nd ed AD+D, and PFRPG-1ed; I would say that PFRPG was almost the same, but "bigger" and/or "better" in everything, then give you a large list of whys.

I do not know 3rd ed D+D at all. Cannot comment.

If between D+D 4ed and PFRPG 2nd, I would say besides rolling a d20 to hit, they are now distinct entities. D+D is structure and balance. GM tools to create a balanced game (or imbalance it on purpose).

PF-2nd is more freeform. A GM may not realize an encounter is imbalanced until it is run.

Both have good and bad points. Both can be fun and exciting. One STRONG reason to convince your guys to go PF is that they have not played it before, so things can be new and exciting. They do NOT know what that kobold is capabale of. Why play that same old Paladin again, when you can play a Palladin? When they enter the city of Old Timiro, they wonder, unlike when they enter Waterdeep and know everything, including where the entrance to undermountain is.

[MurderCityDisciple]

I am thinking about putting my Nightbane game on hold...kinda getting burnout and I just am in a more of a fantasy mood as of late.

Anyway I ran a PF game way back in the day and I have to say the array of totally different from D&Dish OCC character choices stunned me. In my group I had someone playing a Diabolist, a Changeling thief and a Dwarven pirate/smuggler/sea captain.

As a GM I was totally unprepared for this wild mix and the game suffered from my lack of creativity and flexibility. I wasn't expecting my players to actually want to come up with something new and interesting character-wise. Anyway, I'm older and wiser now and can handle just about anything.

Overall...Palladium fantasy is just totally different than most of the fantasy games out there. Can't explain why, it just is. It has an organic kinda feel.

[Blindscout]

Rich setting, unique critters/races/classes, and I like the combat system.

[MurderCityDisciple]

D&D is very cruntchy, its a game of powergaming and min maxing. read a D&D book and its 90% rules and classes and 10% background and setting.

all pallaadium books are the exact oposit, palladium game books read like novels about the subject on the cover, 90% setting and background info, 10% rules and class. I find palladium books harder to put down than anoy other gameing book out there, they are a good read, when i boughtmy first rifts main book back god i dont remember when it had just come out, i read thew whole thing over the weekend, and loved it. I had been a SEASONED D&D DM before that, and never read a D&D book so avidly.

You definitely have to read the books unless you want to look like a fool. There is so much background and history to each of the different regions, that you would end up looking like a fool as a GM if you started to run a game and then read as you went along.

I'm reading through the Western Empire book right now...then I'm working my way North then East. I still need to get my mitts on the Wolfen Empire book though.

Is there any info on the Land of the South Winds? Or Ophid grasslands?

[The Dark Elf]

Most LotSW is in Nimro or high seas or Library (but that totals about two pages over 3 books).

Ophids is in Hinterlands (but again it totals a couple of pages - not much there). Then there is the western colonies in your hands already.

[Juce734]

Well what are the books we still need to complete the world?

Land of the Damned 3: The Citadel
Land of the South Winds
Old Kingdom: Lowlands
Old Kingdom: Highlands
Phi & Lopan

Then there are the series of Mysteries of Magic to cover all sorts of different magics.

Books that still need conversions?

Yin Sloth Jungles
Island at the Edge of the World

Doesn't that cover everything? Then there are places that haven't even been touched on yet.

[Hotrod]

Island at the Edge of the World still needs conversion. If Kevin wants another metaplot, he could always have a sourcebook or six about the conflict between the Dominion and the Wolfen Empire.

[The Dark Elf]

Well what are the books we still need to complete the world?

Land of the Damned 3: The Citadel
Land of the South Winds
Old Kingdom: Lowlands
Old Kingdom: Highlands

Then there are the series of Mysteries of Magic to cover all sorts of different magics.

Books that still need conversions?

Yin Sloth Jungles

Doesn't that cover everything? Then there are places that haven't even been touched on yet.

Phi & Lopan

[Juce734]

It seems like it would be easy for Kevin and a freelance writer to knock those books out in a couple years. The conversions of the old books would be pretty simple it seems.

Kevin knows what he expects and wants out of the other books so it doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to get those done.

[Hotrod]

Having never published a book myself, I can't speak to the ease of it. Writing, editing, getting artwork to match the writing, assembling... if it was easy, anyone would do it.

I'd love to see books on Phi, Lopan, and the Land of South Winds. I think they had a little information on it in the High Seas book, but only on one city, if I recall correctly.