Minion War in Nightbane

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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Tor »

Rappanui wrote:
Tor wrote:have a Nightbane to feed on, a single one's healing factor could sate hundreds of Nightlords.

not really.. Nightbane Regenerate 10hp/a melee, Nightlords Drain at (Estimated) 50HP a melee, and supernatural beings need 10 times the energy to satiate a Nightlord...
Read the Nightlords' HP requirements a little bit closer in regard to Nightbane, the time it takes to feed, and their daily requirements. You don't have the facts straight.

A Nightbane can regenerate the daily food requirements of a Nightlord in half a minute. This means that a single enslaved Nightbane being continually fed upon can sustain 2880 Nightlords. Nightlords CAN feed slightly faster than Nightbane can regenerate (50 HP drunk per minute versus 40 HP healed) but not by much.

I'm not sure how many Lords there are (perhaps there are over 3000?) but I imagine that even a single Nightbane captive passed around could sustain a ridiculous amount of them.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Tor wrote:
Rappanui wrote:
Tor wrote:have a Nightbane to feed on, a single one's healing factor could sate hundreds of Nightlords.

not really.. Nightbane Regenerate 10hp/a melee, Nightlords Drain at (Estimated) 50HP a melee, and supernatural beings need 10 times the energy to satiate a Nightlord...
Read the Nightlords' HP requirements a little bit closer in regard to Nightbane, the time it takes to feed, and their daily requirements. You don't have the facts straight.

A Nightbane can regenerate the daily food requirements of a Nightlord in half a minute. This means that a single enslaved Nightbane being continually fed upon can sustain 2880 Nightlords. Nightlords CAN feed slightly faster than Nightbane can regenerate (50 HP drunk per minute versus 40 HP healed) but not by much.

I'm not sure how many Lords there are (perhaps there are over 3000?) but I imagine that even a single Nightbane captive passed around could sustain a ridiculous amount of them.


It's no more than 1000.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Tor »

Wow, well that settles it. How the Nightlords have any feeding problems astounds me. Plenty left over from a Nightbane prisoner to feed all the Night Princes too, probably. Not sure how many of them there are.

I'd like to hope that in the high-magic turmoil of the Nightbane wars that more Princes/Lords are potentially being created though. Next sourcebook should get rules on how to transition from Priest>Squire>Lord.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Tor wrote:Wow, well that settles it. How the Nightlords have any feeding problems astounds me. Plenty left over from a Nightbane prisoner to feed all the Night Princes too, probably. Not sure how many of them there are.

I'd like to hope that in the high-magic turmoil of the Nightbane wars that more Princes/Lords are potentially being created though. Next sourcebook should get rules on how to transition from Priest>Squire>Lord.


I don't see where it ever said nightlords had a feeding "problem", they need to feed, yes, but they command armies have have at least a city full of slaves, food is never in short supply.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Tor »

Let me put it another way: why Nightlords would feed on anything besides a Nightbane captive confuses me. They're a much more renewable food source.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Tor wrote:Let me put it another way: why Nightlords would feed on anything besides a Nightbane captive confuses me. They're a much more renewable food source.


because restraining a nightbane is harder than grabbing some random slave that's displeasing you at the moment. particuarly because there's no method I'm aware of to prevent nightbane from using talents other than keeping them unconcious or drained of PPE somehow, both presenting problems of their own.

Talents arn't magic, so anti-magic devices don't work. they don't require words or physical gestures so restraining them dosn't work. And they learn them naturally with no training so given enough time they will eventually develop a talent that permits them to escape.

Lastly, Nightlords arn't big into sharing, in fact they have trouble co-operating on common goals. even if one did use some unstatted artifact to keep a nightbane under wraps, he wouldn't share.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Tor »

The problem with 'grab the random slave' though is that it's just not that sustainable. Humans heal only 2 HP per day, meaning you'd need 10 humans at minimum to keep a nightlord fed. They require a lot of maintenance, space, protect your minions from killing them, and you couldn't overfeed (gorge) as I'm sure Nightlords love doing since you might accidentally kill them.

If we look at Dopplegangers, even with the 1:10 ratio, their fast healing abilities make them as sustainable a food source as humans are. 24hp/day gives you basically the same 2/day for Nightlords. The only difference with Dopplegangers is they suck as a PPE source. The bigger pool and heightened PPE recovery (in terms of what Nightlords get) makes humans a bit more attractive.

Though why Nightlords would ever feed on either of those when they have Hounds is confusing. Hounds have at minimum 24HP (2 points for Nightlord) and can heal all of it in an hour's trance. So really, a single hound could, by being out of commission, sustain a Nightlord.

We also know that Nightlords can feed on Squires. They all have a minimum of 40 HP, or 4 points for feeding a Nightlord. They heal that back in 4 minutes. On average it would only take 2 minutes for a Squire to heal it. So by visiting and feeding on their loyal Squire 5x over the course of 20 minutes, a Nightlord can be sated for the day.

Keeping a Squire fed is easy too, because unlike the Lords, theirs doesn't mention a 1:10 ratio for Dopplegangers/Hounds. Heck, under the rules, I'm not sure what forbids a pair of Squires from just sucking each other's HP to continue existing, which is a drop in the pot considering their impressive regenerative rate. A single Squire renting themselves out to Nightlords (perhaps travelling from city to city) could fulfill all their eating requirements.

As for draining Nightbane of PPE, the Lords/Squires feed on PPE as well as HP, so they would presumably feed on this first each time to keep the bane from being weak. The only problem I guess is that initial top of the hour where they get the 5/10 PPE and might spend it on a weak talent. Probably not enough to escape though.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

:lol:

I'm sorry, are you really trying to break down regernation rates for a PPE farm? This conversation is so rediculous I don't even know how to address it. it's a total non-sequiter. They are going to use inefficent methods for the same reason that donald trump dosn't calculate how much that 3000 dollar dinner was actually worth. it's completely irrelevent to him, he's too rich to care. Every nightlord rules a dominion with millions of slaves, dopplegangers and supernatural critters of all types. at no point would any of them break out a calculator and figure out the most cost efficent way to get their meal. it's like saying a billionaire is going run his meals on a minimum diet budget.

They don't care how much it costs. They already have the infastructure to ride herd on a domanion of millions, the cost to have a few hounds drag screaming victems in for mealtime is so negiable compared to their operations they wouldn't even worry about it.

Conversly keeping a nightbane prisoner to feed on is sufficently difficult it's not worth teh effort. not that it's impossible, but that it would require concious effort at all as opposed to him just saying "Bring me ten slaves to feast upon today" to some minions and wait for them to bring 10 slaves.

More inefficent? sure. Nightlords won't give half a damn though. They would care as much about it as you care for the chickens in your KFC.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Tor »

It's also a time-based thing though. A nightlord can get his fill in a minute (50/min, only needs 20/day) but a pathetic human probably won't be enough. It's on average going to take a couple humans, so that's 2 minutes feeding time whereas feeding on 1 strong thing would've just taken a minute. Plus it's more trouble if he has guests and needs to make dinner for them.

I don't think keeping a weak nightbane prisoner would be all that hard. Nightbane aren't that strong =/ Obviously it's a bad idea to try it with the Wanderer, but any ol' noob lvl 1 nightbane (the most likely to get captured or duped into thinking they can trust Nightlords) would do.

My new point stands about 'why don't they just use hounds or Squires' though, I think. Sure, you can feed on a batch of humans in less time, but it's probably safer to do it on your own minions.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Because feeding on your minions is a great way to forment rebellion for one thing. And what makes you think the nightlord would want to rush and finish his meal in a minute as opposed to take an hour to relax and enjoy the screams of his victems? What's their hurry.

Just because you can scarf down a meal and get your full compliment of vitamens and nutrients, dosn't mean you want to.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

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Tor wrote:Let me put it another way: why Nightlords would feed on anything besides a Nightbane captive confuses me. They're a much more renewable food source.


Because for every one Nightbane in the world there are hundreds (thousands? maybe even millions?) of ordinary human beings. They're cheap, they're hyperabundant, they're incredibly easy to acquire (the prison system alone is an endless banquet), and it's stupidly easy to keep them captive. Accidentally killing a Nightbane during feeding is a pain in the ass because replacements don't exactly grow on trees, while accidentally killing humans while feeding is just part of the fun.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by eliakon »

Rallan wrote:
Tor wrote:Let me put it another way: why Nightlords would feed on anything besides a Nightbane captive confuses me. They're a much more renewable food source.


Because for every one Nightbane in the world there are hundreds (thousands? maybe even millions?) of ordinary human beings. They're cheap, they're hyperabundant, they're incredibly easy to acquire (the prison system alone is an endless banquet), and it's stupidly easy to keep them captive. Accidentally killing a Nightbane during feeding is a pain in the ass because replacements don't exactly grow on trees, while accidentally killing humans while feeding is just part of the fun.

As mentioned in the 'why humans exist' thread on the rifts forum. Humans are the junkfood of the megaverse....and the Nightlords like junkfood. :D
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Tor »

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Because feeding on your minions is a great way to forment rebellion for one thing.
I don't think hounds are intelligent enough to rebel over something like this. Especially when it's not killing them or causing any permanent damage and being used as a food source probably keeps you safe compared to being sent to fight on the front lines.

Obviously it's be a bad idea to force it on squires or hound masters though. My outlook though is that this could be used as a punishment (lords probably punish disobedience or failure with assault anyway) and that some minions may VOLUNTEER for the process to prove their toughness and love for their master.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:what makes you think the nightlord would want to rush and finish his meal in a minute as opposed to take an hour to relax and enjoy the screams of his victems? What's their hurry.
Packed schedules, they might have other stuff to do. Better to fulfill your eating needs immediately. You can still torture victims for hours afterward if you like, no need to drag out the actual eating though.

Although if you are feeding from someone with a healing factor, you could keep feeding as they regenerated. Which is pretty much what I'm saying they could do to more renewable sources of HP.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Just because you can scarf down a meal and get your full compliment of vitamens and nutrients, dosn't mean you want to.
I know, but this is about efficiency. I'm operating under the assumption that Nightlords have plans and goals that they'd rather spend time on.

Rallan wrote:for every one Nightbane in the world there are hundreds (thousands? maybe even millions?) of ordinary human beings.
Yeah I'm aware, but there are probably hundreds of Nightbane for each Nightlord though, so it shouldn't be that hard to get one.

Rallan wrote:They're cheap, they're hyperabundant, they're incredibly easy to acquire (the prison system alone is an endless banquet), and it's stupidly easy to keep them captive.
Yeah but they're probably a lot harder to keep alive, feed, and transporting/jailing 1 captive takes less space than dozens.

Rallan wrote:Accidentally killing a Nightbane during feeding is a pain in the ass because replacements don't exactly grow on trees, while accidentally killing humans while feeding is just part of the fun.
Yeah but you're not likely to accidentally kill a Nightbane. Unless of course it decided to stay in Facade in hopes of dying and preventing you from using it for food.

Anyway I'm going to shift this from 'why don't they feed on Nightbane' do 'why don't they feed on Hounds/Squires' because that's a better argument.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Tor wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:Because feeding on your minions is a great way to forment rebellion for one thing.
I don't think hounds are intelligent enough to rebel over something like this. Especially when it's not killing them or causing any permanent damage and being used as a food source probably keeps you safe compared to being sent to fight on the front lines.

Obviously it's be a bad idea to force it on squires or hound masters though. My outlook though is that this could be used as a punishment (lords probably punish disobedience or failure with assault anyway) and that some minions may VOLUNTEER for the process to prove their toughness and love for their master.


I'm sure some volentary feeding happens, and I can even see the nightlord publically "devouring" a minion as the end result of a "You have failed me for the last time" display to show the others the error of their ways. but hounds are not completely mindless automations. They are more like very intelligent, well, hounds, and like any dog, if you beat them enough, they will eventually turn on you. And if they might not think of it on their own, there is plenty of inter-nightlord rivalry, and most would jump at the chance to grow their army by sheltering disaffection troops.

will there be exeptions where nightlords do feed on a minion? Sure, but they hardly negate the rule.

Packed schedules, they might have other stuff to do. Better to fulfill your eating needs immediately. You can still torture victims for hours afterward if you like, no need to drag out the actual eating though.

Although if you are feeding from someone with a healing factor, you could keep feeding as they regenerated. Which is pretty much what I'm saying they could do to more renewable sources of HP.

I know, but this is about efficiency. I'm operating under the assumption that Nightlords have plans and goals that they'd rather spend time on.


While the idea of some nightlords being workaholics is appealing, I just can't apply it across the board to all of them, or even a majority. In my mind, nightlords are still fundamentally humans who have been corrupted by godlike power from an evil and corrupting source. This hasn't made them strictly lazy, no, but they are hardly immune to normal psycological stresses.

The point is sitting down and enjoying a meal, however atrocious it's form, is a fundamental part of the human psyche, no matter how many supernatural beings they lord it over. The idea of the busy workaholic who never has time to eat is an abberation of the normal psycology of these guys. Most of them will be waiting for the chance to sit down and relax

Moloch is probablly the most workaholic nightlord in the setting, and even he is heavily implied to enjoy the finer things in life.

They're not lazy villians, but nor are they machines who view eating as some kind of unpleasant drain on their day.

At the end of the day, nightlords are horrible, terrible people, but like most people, sitting, eating, and being pampered by a hoard of slavish servants is very appealing to their egos and most importantly, their stress levels. Eating is a biological function, sitting down for a meal, with conversation and other people, is a psycological evolution for both bonding with others, and for coping with the days stress.

I don't see the nightlords doing away with that, and more important, I see the few who are the workaholics you discribe to have the same problems all workaholics do: few allies, fewer friends, and a really short temper. Not very good for people in their situation. There's a reason Moloch's decree banned open warfare between nightlords. They need all the allies they can get.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by eliakon »

I can even see a nightlord taking his time by choosing off of a menu: "Well lets see, I will take the orphaned twins for starters, could you bring in the grandmother in about an hour......"
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

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eliakon wrote:I can even see a nightlord taking his time by choosing off of a menu: "Well lets see, I will take the orphaned twins for starters, could you bring in the grandmother in about an hour......"


I'll admit, I try to keep my nightlords from becoming TOO moustache-twirling cartoony. :D
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by eliakon »

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
eliakon wrote:I can even see a nightlord taking his time by choosing off of a menu: "Well lets see, I will take the orphaned twins for starters, could you bring in the grandmother in about an hour......"


I'll admit, I try to keep my nightlords from becoming TOO moustache-twirling cartoony. :D


True, but I CAN see them trying to get different 'flavors' they may well be able to taste different kinds of suffering, or taste the difference between a broken person and a defient one. But yah, there is probably a point where its gone camp :D
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Tor »

I see you picturing the Lords having these massive hour-long banquets, but I can't help but think that some might prefer to snack throughout the day, sit down for 5 minutes here or there every hour or two to nibble on things.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Tor wrote:I see you picturing the Lords having these massive hour-long banquets, but I can't help but think that some might prefer to snack throughout the day, sit down for 5 minutes here or there every hour or two to nibble on things.


I already said some would, but they are probablly just the exceptions.

Likewise, those that enjoy their meals, don't have banquets every day.

I can picture it usually taking about as long as it does for people, likely 3-4 meals taking between half an hour and an hour each. sometimes less sometimes more.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Tor »

I think Lilith would be the type to drag it out and enjoy the sensations of suffering. Moloch seems like one of those 'I enjoy that release of death, nothing compares' quick-fix guys.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

I agree with both. Moloch definatly the workaholic and efficent type. Which is part of why he has stayed top dog for so long. At the same time it's mentioned that this ruthless efficency unnerves even the other nightlords, which indicates at least a simple majority do think his laser-like focus is an abnormality, which indicates they do not share it.

Lillith is the other end of the spectrum, somehow enjoys leasure and luxury a little too much, and only gets away with it because people often understimate how much work she ACTUALLY gets done.

And then lord Magog is represnsitive, I think, of the "Average" Nightlord. Cruel, dangerous, but also flawed, not always as smart as he could be, and got to where he is as much by luck as by skill. He likely enjoys averagely-long meals, and like all busy men occasionally has to scarf it down between busy spells. His meals depend on how much free time he has, but he likes to enjoy it if he can do so reasonably.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Tor »

Perhaps she maintains the illusion of getting nothing done through engaging in the hours-long torture as a cover? People underestimate her ability to multi-task.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

I agree, she definatly a multi-tasker par exellence, but I always give my Nightlords some more mundane hobbies. Just because your evil dosn't mean you stop liking everything good. I always pictured Lillith as an art afficianado. Maybe she's even responsible for "modern" art trends as some kind of joke on the world.

The real trick with lillith is to make sure most of her hobbies arn't things one does solo, that way she can work her charm and schmooze up others to get work done for her. In fact, the only time lillith is REALLY relaxing is when she's completely alone. the general rule should be if she's talking, she's working, no matter what it seems like they're talking about. If nothing else, she's trying to make a new friend, or maintaining her cover.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

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Tor wrote:We do know that, if the Ta Palladia is true, they were pitting races against each other mass genocides. Maybe they figured 'the double PPE today is more guaranteed over the higher net PPE from daily worships'.

The passage that describes their rule is quite clear that they ordered their own worshippers to be sacrificed, and that it withered away because if that. It's also made quite clear that they were used to overthrow the original ruler of their realm. Forgot his name, but they just used the cult to gain power.

Also,it's been stated in the books that when a rival of hades/dyval invaded the nightlands the Nightlords did a ritual to destroy them.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

Unread post by Tor »

Realized re-reading page some things not responded to...

Nekira Sudacne wrote:I can even see the nightlord publically "devouring" a minion as the end result of a "You have failed me for the last time" display to show the others the error of their ways. but hounds are not completely mindless automations. They are more like very intelligent, well, hounds, and like any dog, if you beat them enough, they will eventually turn on you.
Dogs injured by abusive masters can remain hurt and nurse a grudge for a long time. With Hounds able to regenerate in an hour, I wonder if they think the same way. A daily feeding from Nightlords/Princes, if done to all hounds in equal amounts (not singling out one for more) could be culturally par for the course, a 'tuck in before stasis' they grow to expect.

Nightlords can feed in small amounts and I'm not clear on whether or not the process is even painful. It might just sap a bit of vitality, which could be no different than someone putting a dog sled team through a run to tire them out before sleep. Or getting a hound to share some of the quail it brings in its mouth.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:there is plenty of inter-nightlord rivalry, and most would jump at the chance to grow their army by sheltering disaffection troops.
True, but only if one is doing it so much more than the others to the point of them feeling singled out. One could question how much pain hounds feel and how complexly they view people. They're not psychic like dogs and horses are :D

Nekira Sudacne wrote:In my mind, nightlords are still fundamentally humans who have been corrupted by godlike power from an evil and corrupting source. This hasn't made them strictly lazy, no, but they are hardly immune to normal psycological stresses.
I thought they were all sorceres who find a unique form of transformation. Do we know that the Dark is directly involved in all Squires/Princes/Princesses/Lords/Ladies ? Or just Moloch/Mocker/?Foulseed?

Nekira Sudacne wrote:They're not lazy villians, but nor are they machines who view eating as some kind of unpleasant drain on their day.
Depends, feeding on a hound might not be as enjoyable as feeding on a human, less emotion or something? Depends on whether or not a Nightlord wants to be an efficient eater or an indulgent one. People who eat tasty food versus bland healthy food for example.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:At the end of the day, nightlords are horrible, terrible people
Are they? If they avoided killing people and kept their food sources healthy (a Wampyre who uses Healing Psionics to restore the HP of those he drinks blood from is comparable) I'm not sure why they'd have to be evil at all.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:like most people, sitting, eating, and being pampered by a hoard of slavish servants is very appealing to their egos and most importantly, their stress levels. Eating is a biological function, sitting down for a meal, with conversation and other people, is a psycological evolution for both bonding with others, and for coping with the days stress.
True, though they do become increasingly alien beings and I wonder how much the mind can change away from such habits.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Moloch definatly the workaholic and efficent type. Which is part of why he has stayed top dog for so long. At the same time it's mentioned that this ruthless efficency unnerves even the other nightlords, which indicates at least a simple majority do think his laser-like focus is an abnormality, which indicates they do not share it.
I'm not sure if we should conclude that the abnormality perceived by the majority of nightlords is laser-like focus. Maybe other Nightlords are less ruthless? (probably most don't want to destroy the world like he was, and will be comparatively merciful, if still evil) or less dedicated (more rec time). They might be equally efficient or competent, but spend less time (and make more compassionate choices) leading to less destructive output.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Lillith is the other end of the spectrum, somehow enjoys leasure and luxury a little too much, and only gets away with it because people often understimate how much work she ACTUALLY gets done.
It's not so much that she 'gets away with it' because Nightlords aren't exactly punished for indulging themselves or wasting time so long as they fulfill whatever duties Moloch expects of them. With Lilith, I figure she works hard and plays hard. She might spend a lot of time on recreation, but that probably means that she is efficient at her job, too. If her recreation interfered with her duties, Moloch would probably punish her.

As it is, she has time to do all her duties, have fun, AND plot with demons on the side, so she must be efficient and competent.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:the only time lillith is REALLY relaxing is when she's completely alone. the general rule should be if she's talking, she's working, no matter what it seems like they're talking about. If nothing else, she's trying to make a new friend, or maintaining her cover.
I'd say it depends on the challenge. Initially when making friends, sure. But once she has someone under her thumb, I think it's possible she may be able to relax in their presence.

Sir_Spirit wrote:they ordered their own worshippers to be sacrificed, and that it withered away because if that. It's also made quite clear that they were used to overthrow the original ruler of their realm. Forgot his name, but they just used the cult to gain power.


Yeah I think the previous ruler was named either Dyvag or Dyval, something about only surviving as a name.

Previous to them I prefer to think it was simply known as "Hell" like PRPG stated. That and they used to be "Devils" prior to being "Deevils".

That part always confused me, how come Devils changed to Deevils but Demons wasn't changed to Deemons?

Sir_Spirit wrote:when a rival of hades/dyval invaded the nightlands the Nightlords did a ritual to destroy them.
Not sure if they were a rival. I recall it saying something about them being on a size/scale of hades or dyval though.

I was under the impression that Dyval ended up being bigger than Hades though, due to being a bunch of stacked dimensions. Perhaps those individual dimension-continents are smaller than Hades as a whole though, since Hades mirrors the entire Palladium world?

I'm not clear on who these guys are and if they have the same mystic defenses as Hades/Dyval, but part of it was that they left a rift open longe enough for some massive ritual to be conducted. Surely that mistake would be learned from.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

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Not sure which of Hades/dyval is bigger, though one is a mirror of Palladium, in the same way the nightlands "mirror" the earth.
And they are both Hell now. Or rather both are Netherealms of Hell(there are others).

And I prefer to think of Deevils as Devils.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

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I don't mind calling them Deevils so long as we call the others Deemons.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

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Rappanui wrote:the nightlands is not hell. I don't know where you're getting your information from, perhaps some bad rifter articles. ... but alot of the presumptions in this topic are wrong. (Cannonically) The minion war does not affect Nightbane because of the Barriers setup by the Nightlords. The Hell that they collapsed was never mentioned again in canon after that one blurb in nightlands. as to What version of hell they collapsed, it was The one they labeled the "netherworld".. In Rifts Dyval they mention that hades and dyval have many subrealms and they are not all accessible..

It sounds like you are mixed up.
The "nether realms of Hell" include Hades and Dyval and the unnamed realm they destroyed.
Plus a bunch of others.
The Minion War affects the Megaverse however the GM wants.
Because you are so mixed up, I'm not sure if the Barrier thing you are referring to is something new or the old "keeps out mega damage stuff" one.
And Canonically has one n.
Cannonically might be appropriate for the MegaWeapons of Rifts, though....
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

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Rappanui wrote:they Destroyed a specific version of "hell" Called the Netherworld.
Not "hades/Dyval" and iirc, Rifts China 1 goes into the Diffirent hells being ruled by various hell lords ...
In that particular version of hell, The red flame demons, and the other minions of Lady Lilith (I guess this version of hell was inspired by Dante's Inferno)... which is NOT like any Hell used by Palladium or D&D.

No, they destroy a nameless nether realm/world of Hell.
Hell is divided into a number of nether realms/worlds in the Megaverse.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

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Rappanui wrote:also, that damn shallows of night introduced the false concept that night princes are young nightlords. that is NOT the case at all..


Uh, the Nightlords and Night Princes were all humans at one point, the Dark made then something else.

i'm upset Nightbane Survival guide continues that misconception. .. humans Can not be turned into night princes, night princes just come into existence as an ideal gets achieved (See Nemesis RCC).


Uh, no, they are continuing the canon ideas. The Nemesis RCC wasn't about thing it popping into existence, it was about the worlds mirroring each other. If you become influential enough a night prince doesn't just pop into existence, but rather, if your nemesis was already a night prince he too would be a rising star it the nightlands....




.. Let's say 10,000 lives

Why? There is no evidenc of them sacrificing anyone to become a Nightlords.

which makes me believe, that the last New nightlords to be born were actually Vlad tepes, Saladin, and one of the Later kahn. ...

Uh, Vlad Dracula tried to help a Vampire Intelligence enter our world, named Dragular or something, which means he's a vampire.
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Re: Minion War in Nightbane

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Sorry this is a really late post but Vlad the Impaler is a vampire in Nightbane as well. I saw him just the other day while flipping through my book, one of the plots with the Nocturnes concerns 'Yuri the Mad' I believe. he was a ancient Master Vampire who somehow managed to turn away form his Inteligence...and then got discarded by the other god-being he worked for (the Nightlords?). he's currently trapped by the Nocturnes in a rom with lots of radiation that somehow limits his power.

I think it was Nightlands, or possibly the Survival Guide who mentioned him.
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