Hide Skill

[Mad Cow Milk]

Well I am currently contemplating quitting my current game. I have built a character around sneaking and hiding. Now that he is 7th level the GM has decided to introduce the hide skill.

He is not giving it to me for free, but I will need to buy the skill and start leveling it normally. I will not get any grand bonus to it to make-up for the 7 levels. My class does not give me very many skills either.

I have explained to him that prowl was probably intended for use for such a skill use as the hide skill was not in ether versions of the player's hand book; he has of yet stuck to his guns demanding I get the hide skill.

I am seeing this as a skill tax and an attempt to reduce my capabilities in game eliminating my very decent prowl skill bonuses needlessly, what do you think?

Thank you,
-MCM

[Pepsi Jedi]

*Tilts head* What's he claiming the difference between "Prowl" and "hide"?

[Mad Cow Milk]

*Tilts head* What's he claiming the difference between "Prowl" and "hide"?

He is claiming that prowl is only about movement without being noticed, while hide is about finding a place to stay and not be noticed.

[Natasha]

*Tilts head* What's he claiming the difference between "Prowl" and "hide"?

He is claiming that prowl is only about movement without being noticed, while hide is about finding a place to stay and not be noticed.

Camouflage.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Smack him with the RUE. Hard.

[Mad Cow Milk]

*Tilts head* What's he claiming the difference between "Prowl" and "hide"?

He is claiming that prowl is only about movement without being noticed, while hide is about finding a place to stay and not be noticed.

Camouflage.

I have that skill. But that is using tools. Will bring it up to him though.

P.S. Good idea.

[Mad Cow Milk]

Smack him with the RUE. Hard.

He does not care. We use primarily the RUE as it is.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Smack him with the RUE. Hard.

He does not care. We use primarily the RUE as it is.

No no. I meant, pick up the book, get a nice two handed grip on it, wind up.... and SMACK him up side the face with it. TWAACK!!

[Galroth]

Smack him with the RUE. Hard.

He does not care. We use primarily the RUE as it is.

He's not being metaphorical, I think. I think he means literally hit your GM in the head with the R:UE. Because it's hardcover. Probably want to hit him with the spine instead of the flat to concentrate the force.

[Natasha]

*Tilts head* What's he claiming the difference between "Prowl" and "hide"?

He is claiming that prowl is only about movement without being noticed, while hide is about finding a place to stay and not be noticed.

Camouflage.

I have that skill. But that is using tools. Will bring it up to him though.

P.S. Good idea.

Thanks. The thing to remember, I would say to the GM, is that concealment can be achieved without using tools. Sometimes it can be achieved by lying in a ditch or sitting behind a boulder. The trick (and thus the skill roll) is recognising whether or not that ditch or boulder will conceal you. Good luck and hopefully you don’t get a raw deal on this.

[The Beast]

Smack him with the RUE. Hard.

He does not care. We use primarily the RUE as it is.

He's not being metaphorical, I think. I think he means literally hit your GM in the head with the R:UE. Because it's hardcover. Probably want to hit him with the spine instead of the flat to concentrate the force.

Why take chances, hit him both ways.

[Mad Cow Milk]

I know, I sometimes really wanted to. Yeah the guy has been nothing but problems, this is just the latest issue. So even if he okays this camouflage skill, I probably won't be going back anyway.

Just seems like he keeps trying to find reasons for me NOT to do stuff, even simple things. I wanted my 250lbs 5'10" tall full-cyborg hook up a pair of rocket boots to his internal power-supply like a cybernetic implant. Flat answer, no. Then after much discussion it was, you can, but it will severely drain your nuclear power and cut into the amount of time you have left.

I don't even know how a nuclear power-plant can have years be actually drained like that. He said it was because it was fusion not fission. Perhaps he is right about this last part.

P.S. Lately he has also ruled that if you parry an attack the weapon you parry with is dealt the attack's damage... Even if I succeed.

P.P.S. I parried a claw attack with a vibro knife and he stated that doing such would not damage the attacker.

[Nightmask]

I know, I sometimes really wanted to. Yeah the guy has been nothing but problems, this is just the latest issue. So even if he okays this camouflage skill, I probably won't be going back anyway.

Just seems like he keeps trying to find reasons for me NOT to do stuff, even simple things. I wanted my 250lbs 5'10" tall full-cyborg hook up a pair of rocket boots to his internal power-supply like a cybernetic implant. Flat answer, no. Then after much discussion it was, you can, but it will severely drain your nuclear power and cut into the amount of time you have left.

I don't even know how a nuclear power-plant can have years be actually drained like that. He said it was because it was fusion not fission. Perhaps he is right about this last part.

P.S. Lately he has also ruled that if you parry an attack the weapon you parry with is dealt the attack's damage... Even if I succeed.

P.P.S. I parried a claw attack with a vibro knife and he stated that doing such would not damage the attacker.

Doesn't sound like he wants you in the game and rather than just own up to that and say 'Look I just don't want you in the game' he's pulling a range of petty stunts intended to frustrate you to the point you leave so that he can go 'sorry guys it's all on him but he decided to leave' rather than 'okay guys I just don't like him and I don't care how helpful he is I'm tossing him from the game'.

[Akashic Soldier]

If he follows the rule hiding works like this...

I roll my prowl, if I fail I am noticed...
If I succeed I get +1 per 10% in my skill to a "hide roll"
I then roll 1D20+[the bonus from succeeding in prowl]

Then they roll their perception

1D20+[perception bonuses] against that difficulty.
If they match your roll or exceed it on their check then you have been noticed.

If they have not... you are unnoticed and can ambush them or move around unnoticed.

If he uses the R:UE than have him read the perception rules. Geez.

You don't have to buy a new skill man... heck... read prowl and if he doesn't let you do that... try Undercover Ops or Tailing. Undercover Ops lets you stand in a busy room full of your enemies and sneak up on someone unnoticed and tailing can be used to sneak around in plain sight too and their wording is much more clear. Though if this game is not fun... why are you wasting your time?

Tell him "Its cool what you do in your game but I am out" and then pack up your dice and go home. No point in distressing over it.

[ShadowLogan]

P.S. Lately he has also ruled that if you parry an attack the weapon you parry with is dealt the attack's damage... Even if I succeed.

P.P.S. I parried a claw attack with a vibro knife and he stated that doing such would not damage the attacker.

IIRC this is supposed to be what happens in some cases, but off hand I don't recall any specific examples beyond missiles. You may want to inquire about the reason for the change. It may be a rule that's been overlooked.

[flatline]

P.S. Lately he has also ruled that if you parry an attack the weapon you parry with is dealt the attack's damage... Even if I succeed.

Actually, I agree with this depending on what you are parrying and what you are parrying with. Parrying a firesword with a regular sword should do damage to the sword. It should also work in the other direction: parrying a sword with a firesword should do damage to the sword.

Vibroswords, as described, would also damage a regular sword, but wouldn't damage or take damage from the firesword.

P.P.S. I parried a claw attack with a vibro knife and he stated that doing such would not damage the attacker.

Hmm...it doesn't sound like his rulings are very consistent. I generally consider that the hallmark of a bad GM.

--flatline

[Killer Cyborg]

Smack him with the RUE. Hard.

Yup.

[Akashic Soldier]

I think he is ruling that parrying damages weapons because of W.P. Shield. It makes sense if you think about it but it sure makes MD close-combat a whole new kettle of fish.

[Killer Cyborg]

I think he is ruling that parrying damages weapons because of W.P. Shield. It makes sense if you think about it but it sure makes MD close-combat a whole new kettle of fish.

I don't know that this GM's putting that much thought into things.
Regardless, the rules state that weapons don't take damage when parrying, only when they're specifically targeted.

[jaymz]

The GM sounds like a a-hole nothing more.

[Colt47]

I can't believe there is a GM out there that has read the RUE skill section properly and thinks the game needs yet another skill, and one completely rendered redundant by how prowl is currently written. The only limitation the prowl skill has is that it assumes there is a place that the person can use to hide himself, which is why there's also detect concealment and camouflage. Detect concealment doubles as a poor mans camouflage skill if someone reads it right, as it also allows the individual to make use of camouflage, blend into the environment, and construct unobtrusive shelters. The only reason someone needs the camouflage skill is if the character needs to conceal a large position or make his own camouflage via a kit or natural materials.

Get a better GM. There is a difference between creative liberty and messing with core gameplay.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I think he is ruling that parrying damages weapons because of W.P. Shield. It makes sense if you think about it but it sure makes MD close-combat a whole new kettle of fish.

Well I can see a person taking damage if he parrys with like.. HImself.

Sure if someone comes at you with a vibro sword or a Light sa..... "Wilks Laser Sword" and you try and parry it with your claws, SURE, you're gonna take damage because you parryed it with your body and that's an MD weapon.

If you parryed it with say, your armored forearm... Sure, You could take damage.

But if you're both using MD weapons. Say a vibro sword vs vibro sword. Naaa. no damage then.

[Akashic Soldier]

I think he is ruling that parrying damages weapons because of W.P. Shield. It makes sense if you think about it but it sure makes MD close-combat a whole new kettle of fish.

Well I can see a person taking damage if he parrys with like.. HImself.

Sure if someone comes at you with a vibro sword or a Light sa..... "Wilks Laser Sword" and you try and parry it with your claws, SURE, you're gonna take damage because you parryed it with your body and that's an MD weapon.

If you parryed it with say, your armored forearm... Sure, You could take damage.

But if you're both using MD weapons. Say a vibro sword vs vibro sword. Naaa. no damage then.

Yeah but check out W.P. Shield and how the Mystic Shield spell works?

I'm paraphrasing here but... you parry and the shield takes 10% of the damage. So why does a tool designed to take blows takes damage but a 3 inch dagger or rifle you just happen to be carrying does not?

Keep in mind, I agree with you and that ISNT how I run things BUT I can see how the G.M. reached that conclusion.

[Colt47]

I think he is ruling that parrying damages weapons because of W.P. Shield. It makes sense if you think about it but it sure makes MD close-combat a whole new kettle of fish.

Well I can see a person taking damage if he parrys with like.. HImself.

Sure if someone comes at you with a vibro sword or a Light sa..... "Wilks Laser Sword" and you try and parry it with your claws, SURE, you're gonna take damage because you parryed it with your body and that's an MD weapon.

If you parryed it with say, your armored forearm... Sure, You could take damage.

But if you're both using MD weapons. Say a vibro sword vs vibro sword. Naaa. no damage then.

Yeah but check out W.P. Shield and how the Mystic Shield spell works?

I'm paraphrasing here but... you parry and the shield takes 10% of the damage. So why does a tool designed to take blows takes damage but a 3 inch dagger or rifle you just happen to be carrying does not?

Keep in mind, I agree with you and that ISNT how I run things BUT I can see how the G.M. reached that conclusion.

It's a misconception that people with no experience in actual parrying come to, where they think two people are pushing into each other or something when their weapons meet. The current generation of popular anime shows are not helping the situation.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Canonically there is no Hide skill.

There's Prowl, Camouflage and Blend.. No hide.

~ Josh

[Natasha]

I think he is ruling that parrying damages weapons because of W.P. Shield. It makes sense if you think about it but it sure makes MD close-combat a whole new kettle of fish.

Well I can see a person taking damage if he parrys with like.. HImself.

Sure if someone comes at you with a vibro sword or a Light sa..... "Wilks Laser Sword" and you try and parry it with your claws, SURE, you're gonna take damage because you parryed it with your body and that's an MD weapon.

If you parryed it with say, your armored forearm... Sure, You could take damage.

But if you're both using MD weapons. Say a vibro sword vs vibro sword. Naaa. no damage then.

Yeah but check out W.P. Shield and how the Mystic Shield spell works?

I'm paraphrasing here but... you parry and the shield takes 10% of the damage. So why does a tool designed to take blows takes damage but a 3 inch dagger or rifle you just happen to be carrying does not?

Keep in mind, I agree with you and that ISNT how I run things BUT I can see how the G.M. reached that conclusion.

Your question illustrates how terrible the optional rule about shield damage is. In some cases it should be the striker’s weapon that sustains the damage....

[The Beast]

The GM sounds like a a-hole nothing more.

[Killer Cyborg]

Canonically there is no Hide skill.

There's Prowl, Camouflage and Blend.. No hide.

~ Josh

Closest thing I can think of would be the "Art of Hiding" Ninja skill from N&S.
And if a GM insisted that I take that skill, at the cost of one skill slot, I'd be more than fine with that.

[Colt47]

Canonically there is no Hide skill.

There's Prowl, Camouflage and Blend.. No hide.

~ Josh

Closest thing I can think of would be the "Art of Hiding" Ninja skill from N&S.
And if a GM insisted that I take that skill, at the cost of one skill slot, I'd be more than fine with that.

Yes, all we need in the world is more ninja vagabonds.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Canonically there is no Hide skill.

There's Prowl, Camouflage and Blend.. No hide.

~ Josh

Closest thing I can think of would be the "Art of Hiding" Ninja skill from N&S.
And if a GM insisted that I take that skill, at the cost of one skill slot, I'd be more than fine with that.

Glitter Boy Ninjas...

~ Josh

[Colt47]

Canonically there is no Hide skill.

There's Prowl, Camouflage and Blend.. No hide.

~ Josh

Closest thing I can think of would be the "Art of Hiding" Ninja skill from N&S.
And if a GM insisted that I take that skill, at the cost of one skill slot, I'd be more than fine with that.

Glitter Boy Ninjas...

~ Josh

*Glitterboy pilot sees incoming CS patrol and uses his art of hiding.

CS Soldier: Uh, sarge? What is that Glitterboy doing in the distance?

CS Officer: Quiet! He thinks we can't see him since he's moving with the grass! If you keep looking at him like that who knows what will happen!

[Mad Cow Milk]

Well I reached him with the use of Camouflage skill as it is covering what he is looking for.

He agreed. However this has been one too many times he has caused me too much of a problem in a game that is supposed to be fun.

I think this is it for me and this GM. The only sad part is that he is the only GM I know in the area that doesn't go crazy Uber powerful. Maybe I'll run or look harder.

About the questions above.

My cyborg was using a sliver plated vibro-claw to parry a were-wolf claw attack. I succeeded, but my vibro-claw got badly damaged.

I remembered reading somewhere in the rules that if you parried a punch attack, or the likes, you dealt damage to the attacker and you avoided the attack entirely. I have yet to find these rules.

On the off topic subject, I can see if you use shields to block an attack it takes damage, I don't think there are rules for such actions any more. As part of a modified parry action to the game I personally would rule that you gain a decent bonus to parry with a shield. If you succeed on a parry with only a +1 bonus from the shield there is no damage; if you needed to use the extra +2 to +5 (depending on GM ruling) bonus to parry this would deal damage to the shield, but nothing else. However a hand held shield would allow you to parry a ranged attack, unlike normal parry, even a laser weapon attack if you know about the attack before hand.

[drewkitty ~..~]

the art of hiding
found in both N&S and R Japan as a MA power.

[Mad Cow Milk]

Thanks everyone!

I have given the GM notice that I was out of the game.

[Nightmask]

Thanks everyone!

I have given the GM notice that I was out of the game.

You're welcome, and a good call I think. Whether he was intentionally biasing things against you or just a fluke so many calls against you came down at the same time it doesn't sound like you could have enjoyed being in that game, you'd have spent simply too much time wondering what he was going to judge against you on next and without a GM you can trust you just can't enjoy any game.

[boxee]

Ummmm parry with shield only damages the shield if you fail the parry roll and then still the shield takes the damage not you or your armor. Shields do not work against area effect weapons.