Fedration of Magic ..

[Lenwen]

Federation of Magic ..

If .. the FoM is to ever truly be considered a world power a few key things have GOT .. to happen as well as a couple people taken out .

In your guys opinion's . What would be thee best possible scenario for the Federation of Magic to really become a true power ?

I.e. not this power dependent upon hiding itself in cave's and cloaking magic's .. an other such trivalities .. but a true power in the sense that any known world power would second guess any military action against them ..

Your thoughts ?

[dragonfett]

They would never make it that far, because before they ever got to a point where the CS would have second thoughts about attacking them, the CS would rush in and obliterate them.

[Gamer]

It wouldn't just be the CS because FQ would join them on that Jihad.
First thing FOM should do is get rid of that insane dude and start actually working together.
Hehehahahahahahahaha.
Yeah, never happen.

[Mack]

The problem with the FoM is there's nothing to unite them. Especially once you add in all the supernatural critters.

There's far too many people/creatures who would sacrifice a long-term plan just to garner a short-term advantage over a rival.

[Faceless Dude]

The problem with the FoM is there's nothing to unite them. Especially once you add in all the supernatural critters.

There's far too many people/creatures who would sacrifice a long-term plan just to garner a short-term advantage over a rival.

There's also too many groups of supernatural critters that are working at cross purposes. No amount of FoM unification will allow Dunscon's Demon allies to take orders or direction from his Deevil allies.

Which makes me wonder what the FoM in general and the City of Brass in particular are going to look like once the Minion War shakes itself out.

[Killer Cyborg]

Federation of Magic ..

If .. the FoM is to ever truly be considered a world power a few key things have GOT .. to happen as well as a couple people taken out .

In your guys opinion's . What would be thee best possible scenario for the Federation of Magic to really become a true power ?

I.e. not this power dependent upon hiding itself in cave's and cloaking magic's .. an other such trivalities .. but a true power in the sense that any known world power would second guess any military action against them ..

Your thoughts ?

Dweomer and Stormspire and other powerful factions that are NOT evil and power-hungry need to unite and wipe out Dunscon and his crowd.

Then they need to come to some kind of truce with the Coalition, something that would let the CS leaders benefit from a long-term Cold War rather than suffer from an outright conflict.

[jaymz]

Remove Dunscon and minimize the large number of evil supernatural beings that want to eliminate all potential competition and take over the word so to speak. Dweomer and Stormspire as KC pointed out could probably do just that though Stormspire could lose quite a bit of repeat business as well if you eliminate the power hungry war mongers.

[Killer Cyborg]

Remove Dunscon and minimize the large number of evil supernatural beings that want to eliminate all potential competition and take over the word so to speak. Dweomer and Stormspire as KC pointed out could probably do just that though Stormspire could lose quite a bit of repeat business as well if you eliminate the power hungry war mongers.

A cold war with the CS could be good for his business as well.

[jaymz]

Remove Dunscon and minimize the large number of evil supernatural beings that want to eliminate all potential competition and take over the word so to speak. Dweomer and Stormspire as KC pointed out could probably do just that though Stormspire could lose quite a bit of repeat business as well if you eliminate the power hungry war mongers.

A cold war with the CS could be good for his business as well.

True but as lucrative as openly hostile evil beings who want as many of the latest greatest TW items ever created as they can get their hands on?

[Faceless Dude]

Remove Dunscon and minimize the large number of evil supernatural beings that want to eliminate all potential competition and take over the word so to speak. Dweomer and Stormspire as KC pointed out could probably do just that though Stormspire could lose quite a bit of repeat business as well if you eliminate the power hungry war mongers.

A cold war with the CS could be good for his business as well.

True but as lucrative as openly hostile evil beings who want as many of the latest greatest TW items ever created as they can get their hands on?

Ah, but I bet any Defense Contractor will tell you that the times when sales were best is when you're PREPARING to fight the next great war. Selling to one side during open conflict means you keep needing a steady stream of new clients, as a percentage of your old ones will be killed in the conflicts. However, in a cold war buildup situation, you keep almost all of your existing clients, plus a stream of new clients, PLUS you can sell to existing clients over and over and over again as the next most awesomest model comes out!

[Lenwen]

Do you guys think it is beyond belief .. to get all or rather the majority of the magic using communities to eventually band together following the fallout of the Tolkeen situation ?

[Killer Cyborg]

Do you guys think it is beyond belief .. to get all or rather the majority of the magic using communities to eventually band together following the fallout of the Tolkeen situation ?

There'll need to be another Tolkeen or two before they'll band together.

And by that time, the Xiticix or some other threat will likely have changed the playing field for everybody.

[Faceless Dude]

Do you guys think it is beyond belief .. to get all or rather the majority of the magic using communities to eventually band together following the fallout of the Tolkeen situation ?

Don't know. I would like to see what the fallout is from Megaverse in Flames first. There seem to be both demons and deevils through out the magic zone. Add that to the proximity of the St. Louis rift and I would think that open war would break out there. How this would affect the other power blocs in the region needs to be addressed before any answer can be made.

In my opinion

[jaymz]

Remove Dunscon and minimize the large number of evil supernatural beings that want to eliminate all potential competition and take over the word so to speak. Dweomer and Stormspire as KC pointed out could probably do just that though Stormspire could lose quite a bit of repeat business as well if you eliminate the power hungry war mongers.

A cold war with the CS could be good for his business as well.

True but as lucrative as openly hostile evil beings who want as many of the latest greatest TW items ever created as they can get their hands on?

Ah, but I bet any Defense Contractor will tell you that the times when sales were best is when you're PREPARING to fight the next great war. Selling to one side during open conflict means you keep needing a steady stream of new clients, as a percentage of your old ones will be killed in the conflicts. However, in a cold war buildup situation, you keep almost all of your existing clients, plus a stream of new clients, PLUS you can sell to existing clients over and over and over again as the next most awesomest model comes out!

Depends on the type of cold war you are talking about. Dweomer isn't likely to be the USSR to the Coaltion's US. Not only that if the Three/Dweomer were THAT concerned with the CS for that kind of a cold war they would have thrown in with Tolkeen originally in the first place. At least I would think they would have. In the world of Rifts that kind of cold war build can only lead to an eventual war. A war The three really do not want. Stormspire how ever would welcome it no doubt. One reason I don;t think Stormspire and Dweomer would work all that well together once psycho man is eliminated.

[barna10]

I think the CS rolling into any part of the Federation could be enough of a catalyst for at least short term unification ("The enemy of my enemy is my friend"

That being said, I think Dweomer has a reasonable acceptance of tech to be able to field a magical and technological army. Maybe they can convince others to do the same. Also, the three golden ones are warriors with 1000s of years experience; I wouldn't want to face them or their armies in war!

[Nether]

Do you guys think it is beyond belief .. to get all or rather the majority of the magic using communities to eventually band together following the fallout of the Tolkeen situation ?

Honestly i dont think they ever would, not even with more 'tolkeen' type actions by the CS.

Reason is because you have the good aligned factions and the bad aligned groups which just could not work togather, and if they did it would only be short term till one could remove the other.


If unification would happen, I really think it would be Dweomer that has the best chances of that, but they would need to start establishing more contact / allies with other groups, then ramp up creating safety for the communities of the Fed. from all the bad stuff. And not just that, but i think it would go really well with a god as it's president, though that would need to be made public or some variation of it.

They could keep the hidden city as a capitol, as it protects your high brass and key factories very well, but get Psyscape, Lazlo, New Lazlo, Magestar ext in as part of their empire.

Mr. batchit crazy and his demon friends would need to go, like permanently to hell or someplace other that Rifts Earth.

Then they should also try to establish a talking relationship with the CS as well as eventually show that the Fed can definately help the CS's weakness against magic of Atlantis and other bad groups.

I love Stormspire and it should become the manufaturing capital for the Fed, but Kazaa would need to focus on making it a dimensional market, like a mini Atlantis of sorts for money as well as much more ability to find new tech ext.

[Giant2005]

Do you guys think it is beyond belief .. to get all or rather the majority of the magic using communities to eventually band together following the fallout of the Tolkeen situation ?

Honestly i dont think they ever would, not even with more 'tolkeen' type actions by the CS.

Reason is because you have the good aligned factions and the bad aligned groups which just could not work togather, and if they did it would only be short term till one could remove the other.


If unification would happen, I really think it would be Dweomer that has the best chances of that, but they would need to start establishing more contact / allies with other groups, then ramp up creating safety for the communities of the Fed. from all the bad stuff. And not just that, but i think it would go really well with a god as it's president, though that would need to be made public or some variation of it.

They could keep the hidden city as a capitol, as it protects your high brass and key factories very well, but get Psyscape, Lazlo, New Lazlo, Magestar ext in as part of their empire.

Mr. batchit crazy and his demon friends would need to go, like permanently to hell or someplace other that Rifts Earth.

Then they should also try to establish a talking relationship with the CS as well as eventually show that the Fed can definately help the CS's weakness against magic of Atlantis and other bad groups.

I love Stormspire and it should become the manufaturing capital for the Fed, but Kazaa would need to focus on making it a dimensional market, like a mini Atlantis of sorts for money as well as much more ability to find new tech ext.

I think that if the CS started spreading further and attacking more nations beyond Tolkeen, it wouldn't just be the entire Federation that would combine to attack the CS, all of North America would get in on the action.
The basic answer given to Tolkeen's call for aid (except for Duscon, who thought threachery was a better way to go) was that they should simply give up the land and move to avoid the war.
If the CS choose to keep attacking other nations beyond their borders, then the idea that it was just a land grab would be undeniably false. They couldn't hide behind the hope that they are far away enough to not expect a CS invasion - they would have to accept the fact that the CS intends to kill them all.
At the end of the Tolkeen war, it seemed that the North American nations already came to that conclusion when the CS relentlessly hunted down the refugees from the fallen Tolkeen - even the Pecos Bandits thought it necessary to intervene and came to the aid of the fleeing refugees.
I think even Free Quebec would take the opportunity to join the battle against the CS. Prosek is genuinely apologetic for his actions against FQ but they believe none of it and to this day are still extremely weary of the CS. If the individual nations of North America aligned against the CS and had a real chance of finally taking them down, it would make sense for FQ to join the battle to ensure the threat that they perceive to be the greatest is removed.

[Killer Cyborg]

When the Nazis started rolling all over Europe, how many nations attacked them?

[Lenwen]

When the Nazis started rolling all over Europe, how many nations attacked them?

Considering the amount of nations involved in both world wars .. collectively .. or individually .. each war itself ..

I'd say .. Alot of nations did KC.

[gaaahhhh]

When the Nazis started rolling all over Europe, how many nations attacked them?

Considering the amount of nations involved in both world wars .. collectively .. or individually .. each war itself ..

I'd say .. Alot of nations did KC.

Nazis weren't involved in World War I, unless you consider World War II a continuation of that war. In World War II they conquered a significant portion of Europe before anyone really came together to fight them.

[Giant2005]

When the Nazis started rolling all over Europe, how many nations attacked them?

Considering the amount of nations involved in both world wars .. collectively .. or individually .. each war itself ..

I'd say .. Alot of nations did KC.

Nazis weren't involved in World War I, unless you consider World War II a continuation of that war. In World War II they conquered a significant portion of Europe before anyone really came together to fight them.

I think the point he was trying to bring up is that the nations did come together and fight them, regardless of how long it took or how many fell before-hand, it happened.
It is akin to Tolkeen - people hoped they could stay out of it and that the CS would be satisfied with its conquest, if they continued their invasion, others would have to get involved much like WW2.

[flatline]

You guys are all missing the obvious answer:

If something happens to change the Magic Zone political structure significantly, it should be the player characters, not the authors stupidly advancing the timeline any further.

--flatline

[Nightmask]

You guys are all missing the obvious answer:

If something happens to change the Magic Zone political structure significantly, it should be the player characters, not the authors stupidly advancing the timeline any further.

--flatline

What if they smartly advanced it instead?

[flatline]

You guys are all missing the obvious answer:

If something happens to change the Magic Zone political structure significantly, it should be the player characters, not the authors stupidly advancing the timeline any further.

--flatline

What if they smartly advanced it instead?

I reserve the right to complain bitterly about it.

--flatline

[Killer Cyborg]

When the Nazis started rolling all over Europe, how many nations attacked them?

Considering the amount of nations involved in both world wars .. collectively .. or individually .. each war itself ..

I'd say .. Alot of nations did KC.

Nazis weren't involved in World War I, unless you consider World War II a continuation of that war. In World War II they conquered a significant portion of Europe before anyone really came together to fight them.

I think the point he was trying to bring up is that the nations did come together and fight them, regardless of how long it took or how many fell before-hand, it happened.
It is akin to Tolkeen - people hoped they could stay out of it and that the CS would be satisfied with its conquest, if they continued their invasion, others would have to get involved much like WW2.

Actually, I was raising a question that could give us an idea either way.
Offhand, I really don't know how many nations directly fought against the Nazis.
As an American, the history I've been taught is that without the US intervening, they'd have never been stopped.
But I've been told that if you ask the French, they'll say that the French Resistance (who were pretty badass!) did a heck of a lot of the work.
And of course, the Russians did a heck of a lot, as did the Brits.
But that's only like 4 nations that I can think of that I know for sure went to war against the Nazis, and one of them had to do the work after it was conquered.

But yeah, I tend to think that the longer the CS keeps expanding and conquering, the more other nations will be willing to join in against them.
Whether or not enough will do it fast enough to stop them isn't clear.
Inertia and self-preservation tends to keep people pretty passive and slow-to-act.

"When they came for Tolkeen, I was silent, because I was not a Tolkeenite..."

[Gamer]

would depend on who they conquer.
The pecos empire? doubt anyone would bat an eye over that one besides the bandits themselves.
Expand into xiticix territory?
Raised eyebrows and a hearty good luck you nuts with this I got to see is about all.

[gaaahhhh]

When the Nazis started rolling all over Europe, how many nations attacked them?

Considering the amount of nations involved in both world wars .. collectively .. or individually .. each war itself ..

I'd say .. Alot of nations did KC.

Nazis weren't involved in World War I, unless you consider World War II a continuation of that war. In World War II they conquered a significant portion of Europe before anyone really came together to fight them.

I think the point he was trying to bring up is that the nations did come together and fight them, regardless of how long it took or how many fell before-hand, it happened.
It is akin to Tolkeen - people hoped they could stay out of it and that the CS would be satisfied with its conquest, if they continued their invasion, others would have to get involved much like WW2.

Actually, I was raising a question that could give us an idea either way.
Offhand, I really don't know how many nations directly fought against the Nazis.
As an American, the history I've been taught is that without the US intervening, they'd have never been stopped.
But I've been told that if you ask the French, they'll say that the French Resistance (who were pretty badass!) did a heck of a lot of the work.
And of course, the Russians did a heck of a lot, as did the Brits.
But that's only like 4 nations that I can think of that I know for sure went to war against the Nazis, and one of them had to do the work after it was conquered.

But yeah, I tend to think that the longer the CS keeps expanding and conquering, the more other nations will be willing to join in against them.
Whether or not enough will do it fast enough to stop them isn't clear.
Inertia and self-preservation tends to keep people pretty passive and slow-to-act.

"When they came for Tolkeen, I was silent, because I was not a Tolkeenite..."

Without the US, they wouldn't have been stopped. If Hitler hadn't broken his non-aggression pact with Stalin they wouldn't have been stopped. If the British forces hadn't been able to evacuate at Dunkirk and regroup, they might not have been stopped. If the French Resistance hadn't been so effective at damaging their supply lines they might not have been stopped. If they had been able to capture the oil fields of Northern Africa, and if the Fascists in Italy (under Mussolini) hadn't fallen and needed to be propped up by German soldiers, they would have been a lot stronger in France and Germany.

There were a lot of factors that contributed to Hitler's defeat, among them the fact that a lot of his generals were executed after various assassination attempts and late in the war he didn't have very many competent generals left.

[Killer Cyborg]

There were a lot of factors that contributed to Hitler's defeat, among them the fact that a lot of his generals were executed after various assassination attempts and late in the war he didn't have very many competent generals left.

That's something else that might happen with the CS.