Cyborgs in powered armor

[Mad Cow Milk]

Well as I have spoken before on this forum I have a light full conversion cyborg that is forcusing on stealth.

As a change of events that GM is strongly promoting the use of NE equipment, as the party has been playing it too safe as of late, and needs some more conflict.

This though brings up a good question.
I logically am pushing to use a NE~SA40 (Dimension book 8, pg 49.)
As a light cyborg from Russia, chassis has a strength of 28, while the power armor will have a strength of 25. My character will be stronger than the armor. How should I suggest to my GM handle this?

Thanks,
MCM

[Comrade Corsarius]

I would expect that the armour, not built to handle such powerful overpressures, would suffer damage if you used supernatural strength within its confines. You would be fighting the servos whenever you tried to do anything, eventually (or, indeed, rapidly) breaking them, making your 'powered armour' now a regular set of heavy armour with an unlicensed nuclear accelerator on its back.

[Razzinold]

making your 'powered armour' now a regular set of heavy armour with an unlicensed nuclear accelerator on its back.

Who you gonna call ?

I may have missed something but why would you want a borg in PA anyway, it's not exactly stealthy (even a borg on its on isn't very stealthy IMO) and even if your GM is hinting at upping the combat, isn't a borg in PA a little bit over kill ? Why not ask him to have a force field installed in your borg if you are looking to be able to soak up more damage ?

[Mad Cow Milk]

making your 'powered armour' now a regular set of heavy armour with an unlicensed nuclear accelerator on its back.

Who you gonna call ?

I may have missed something but why would you want a borg in PA anyway, it's not exactly stealthy (even a borg on its on isn't very stealthy IMO) and even if your GM is hinting at upping the combat, isn't a borg in PA a little bit over kill ? Why not ask him to have a force field installed in your borg if you are looking to be able to soak up more damage ?

As mentioned, I was looking at getting the NE~SA40 (Dimension book 8, pg 49.). Which has some NICE stealth capabilities. Plus the armor adds some bonuses, on top of that I have a Cyberlink Vehicle Interfacing system which will give me some additional bonuses. My borg even runs twice as fast as this one... looks like I might need to get some modifications done. Perhaps I could get the armor tweaked to act like a cyborg exoskeleton rather than power armor.

[Razzinold]

Like I said, I may have missed something, I wasn't familiar with that model of PA. I would say a cyborg exoskeleton seems more plausible then PA, but I don't really use borgs or PA that much so maybe I should just keep my opinions to myself eh ?

[Mad Cow Milk]

Like I said, I may have missed something, I wasn't familiar with that model of PA. I would say a cyborg exoskeleton seems more plausible then PA, but I don't really use borgs or PA that much so maybe I should just keep my opinions to myself eh ?

Nah, that is fine. It is just that the power armor has some nice stealth options.

[taalismn]

Like I said, I may have missed something, I wasn't familiar with that model of PA. I would say a cyborg exoskeleton seems more plausible then PA, but I don't really use borgs or PA that much so maybe I should just keep my opinions to myself eh ?

Nah, that is fine. It is just that the power armor has some nice stealth options.

See if you can't go for custom stealth skinning on your cyborg. It might be cheaper than going through power armors that don't do anything else for your cyborg on a regular basis.

[Mad Cow Milk]

I'd double check the sizes, even as a "light" cyborg you maybe larger than the power armor itself. I don't think you would get the bonus for being stronger if you did fit. I don't believe a person with Supernatural Strength gets an added bonus if they use powerarmor.

The armor adds to the wearers height to a maximum of 7 feat 10 inches. I don't think I can specify the specific amount the size is increased. If you read the borg it specifically says you can wear human armor as they are the same size and shape.

Is there any way to up a power-armor's strength and speed? If I can match, I guess there would not be any real problem.

[Faceless Dude]

I'd double check the sizes, even as a "light" cyborg you maybe larger than the power armor itself. I don't think you would get the bonus for being stronger if you did fit. I don't believe a person with Supernatural Strength gets an added bonus if they use powerarmor.

The armor adds to the wearers height to a maximum of 7 feat 10 inches. I don't think I can specify the specific amount the size is increased. If you read the borg it specifically says you can wear human armor as they are the same size and shape.

Is there any way to up a power-armor's strength and speed? If I can match, I guess there would not be any real problem.

Well an operator can maximize performed to a degree, and could help with speed. Dunno about strength. Also, I'm not sure, but is the PS of the light machine fully Robotic or just Augmented? If its jut augmented, then your PA would still do more damage than your Borg body.

All things being equal, I would think the Ninja Borg might be a better option. I'm not sure if Japan tech is allowed but you are planning on playing a Russian OCC as it is.

[Mad Cow Milk]

I'd double check the sizes, even as a "light" cyborg you maybe larger than the power armor itself. I don't think you would get the bonus for being stronger if you did fit. I don't believe a person with Supernatural Strength gets an added bonus if they use powerarmor.

The armor adds to the wearers height to a maximum of 7 feat 10 inches. I don't think I can specify the specific amount the size is increased. If you read the borg it specifically says you can wear human armor as they are the same size and shape.

Is there any way to up a power-armor's strength and speed? If I can match, I guess there would not be any real problem.

Well an operator can maximize performed to a degree, and could help with speed. Dunno about strength. Also, I'm not sure, but is the PS of the light machine fully Robotic or just Augmented? If its jut augmented, then your PA would still do more damage than your Borg body.

All things being equal, I would think the Ninja Borg might be a better option. I'm not sure if Japan tech is allowed but you are planning on playing a Russian OCC as it is.

I would have loved to be a ninja borg, but no dice It was a stretch to be a Russian borg.

The strength is robotic for the Russian borg.

Are there rulse for applying cybernetics to robot and powered armor anywhere?

[TechnoGothic]

You want Stealth for your Russia Light Machine Cyborg ?

1. Get some Ninja-Borg features specially the Stealth Sound System. Reduces all Prowl Penalities to 0% while wearing Light Cyborg Armors. Paint Black, gray, or whatever color says "stealth" to you.

The Stealth system creates counter sound frequentcies to nullify the noise penalities for a cyborg wearing Light Armor only for the purpose of Prowl rolls. Each Borg also gets Rubber on the feet to stop the robocop-like foot steps noise. It is a great simple stealth system.

You want Optic Stealth abilities, NE could outfit a Light Cyborg Armor with the NE-C20 Camouflage Variable Armor. With slight modification I'm sure NE could custom make a Cyborg version of the armor with greater protection. Say 180 mdc instead of 80 mdc, making it Light Cyborg armor.
The NE-C20 CVA gives you a +5% Bonus to Prowl even, and -20% for others to detect You, also masks Infrared and Thermal emissions. Plus it looks better than the other NE armors released in later books.

[Comrade Corsarius]

I'd double check the sizes, even as a "light" cyborg you maybe larger than the power armor itself. I don't think you would get the bonus for being stronger if you did fit. I don't believe a person with Supernatural Strength gets an added bonus if they use powerarmor.

The armor adds to the wearers height to a maximum of 7 feat 10 inches. I don't think I can specify the specific amount the size is increased. If you read the borg it specifically says you can wear human armor as they are the same size and shape.

Is there any way to up a power-armor's strength and speed? If I can match, I guess there would not be any real problem.

....but then your borg can operate a powered armour, matched to him, which would then operate a robot, matched to it, which would then operate a BIGGER robot......

Go this way you must not. Madness this way lies.

[Mad Cow Milk]

I'd double check the sizes, even as a "light" cyborg you maybe larger than the power armor itself. I don't think you would get the bonus for being stronger if you did fit. I don't believe a person with Supernatural Strength gets an added bonus if they use powerarmor.

The armor adds to the wearers height to a maximum of 7 feat 10 inches. I don't think I can specify the specific amount the size is increased. If you read the borg it specifically says you can wear human armor as they are the same size and shape.

Is there any way to up a power-armor's strength and speed? If I can match, I guess there would not be any real problem.

....but then your borg can operate a powered armour, matched to him, which would then operate a robot, matched to it, which would then operate a BIGGER robot......

Go this way you must not. Madness this way lies.

I AM ONLY INTERESTED IN THE STEALTH CAPABILITIES.... okay?

I see what you are getting at though, but those are the rules. Personally I would rule that the power armor listed would make operating any other power armor or robot armor impossible at the same time. Any way I DO NOT want to even attempt it, this would not be my concept.

[Faceless Dude]

You want Stealth for your Russia Light Machine Cyborg ?

1. Get some Ninja-Borg features specially the Stealth Sound System. Reduces all Prowl Penalities to 0% while wearing Light Cyborg Armors. Paint Black, gray, or whatever color says "stealth" to you.

The Stealth system creates counter sound frequentcies to nullify the noise penalities for a cyborg wearing Light Armor only for the purpose of Prowl rolls. Each Borg also gets Rubber on the feet to stop the robocop-like foot steps noise. It is a great simple stealth system.

You want Optic Stealth abilities, NE could outfit a Light Cyborg Armor with the NE-C20 Camouflage Variable Armor. With slight modification I'm sure NE could custom make a Cyborg version of the armor with greater protection. Say 180 mdc instead of 80 mdc, making it Light Cyborg armor.
The NE-C20 CVA gives you a +5% Bonus to Prowl even, and -20% for others to detect You, also masks Infrared and Thermal emissions. Plus it looks better than the other NE armors released in later books.

TG, in Naruni Wave 2 it says under just about every suit of Body armor that for an additional x,000 credits they can add the stealth coating from the NE-C20 to another armor. Although it isn't explicitly said, I bet the Naruni could do this with the Light Espionage Borg armors too.

[Mad Cow Milk]

You want Stealth for your Russia Light Machine Cyborg ?

1. Get some Ninja-Borg features specially the Stealth Sound System. Reduces all Prowl Penalities to 0% while wearing Light Cyborg Armors. Paint Black, gray, or whatever color says "stealth" to you.

The Stealth system creates counter sound frequentcies to nullify the noise penalities for a cyborg wearing Light Armor only for the purpose of Prowl rolls. Each Borg also gets Rubber on the feet to stop the robocop-like foot steps noise. It is a great simple stealth system.

You want Optic Stealth abilities, NE could outfit a Light Cyborg Armor with the NE-C20 Camouflage Variable Armor. With slight modification I'm sure NE could custom make a Cyborg version of the armor with greater protection. Say 180 mdc instead of 80 mdc, making it Light Cyborg armor.
The NE-C20 CVA gives you a +5% Bonus to Prowl even, and -20% for others to detect You, also masks Infrared and Thermal emissions. Plus it looks better than the other NE armors released in later books.

TG, in Naruni Wave 2 it says under just about every suit of Body armor that for an additional x,000 credits they can add the stealth coating from the NE-C20 to another armor. Although it isn't explicitly said, I bet the Naruni could do this with the Light Espionage Borg armors too.

Oh wow, good catch, thank you.

[G]

Well as I have spoken before on this forum I have a light full conversion cyborg that is forcusing on stealth.

As a change of events that GM is strongly promoting the use of NE equipment, as the party has been playing it too safe as of late, and needs some more conflict.

This though brings up a good question.
I logically am pushing to use a NE~SA40 (Dimension book 8, pg 49.)
As a light cyborg from Russia, chassis has a strength of 28, while the power armor will have a strength of 25. My character will be stronger than the armor. How should I suggest to my GM handle this?

Thanks,
MCM

Lets take a look at your premise...the GM says, your going to have more combat...and as a borg - one of the few choices that can really take and dish out damage, you choose a 220mdc armor for 3.8Million phase world credits (more to those people on rifts earth)...from a company that would like to take over..everything. Any other char can do that, and focus on stealth as well or better than you - what can you do that they can't? What I'm proposing is that you go with big guns and heavy armor made locally..or perhaps if you are a brain in a box full conversion borg get yourself implanted into a heavy borg body. Since you are playing a russian borg, I'll suggest the white tiger borg WB 17, p124...or a red borg with heavy armor..that sort of thing.

[TechnoGothic]

Lets take a look at your premise...the GM says, your going to have more combat...and as a borg - one of the few choices that can really take and dish out damage, you choose a 220mdc armor for 3.8Million phase world credits (more to those people on rifts earth)...from a company that would like to take over..everything. Any other char can do that, and focus on stealth as well or better than you - what can you do that they can't? What I'm proposing is that you go with big guns and heavy armor made locally..or perhaps if you are a brain in a box full conversion borg get yourself implanted into a heavy borg body. Since you are playing a russian borg, I'll suggest the white tiger borg WB 17, p124...or a red borg with heavy armor..that sort of thing.

Thunderstorm Ultra Borg is the best Heavy Borg around. It may be "slow" at 50mph running for a borg. But the firepower and armor it commands are second to none.

For Light Borgs, the Triax Gold Slasher Borg is great.

[Comrade Corsarius]

Lets take a look at your premise...the GM says, your going to have more combat...and as a borg - one of the few choices that can really take and dish out damage, you choose a 220mdc armor for 3.8Million phase world credits (more to those people on rifts earth)...from a company that would like to take over..everything. Any other char can do that, and focus on stealth as well or better than you - what can you do that they can't? What I'm proposing is that you go with big guns and heavy armor made locally..or perhaps if you are a brain in a box full conversion borg get yourself implanted into a heavy borg body. Since you are playing a russian borg, I'll suggest the white tiger borg WB 17, p124...or a red borg with heavy armor..that sort of thing.

Thunderstorm Ultra Borg is the best Heavy Borg around. It may be "slow" at 50mph running for a borg. But the firepower and armor it commands are second to none.

For Light Borgs, the Triax Gold Slasher Borg is great.

The thunderstorm isn't really much fun at parties, though. I do agree that I like the standard Sovietski Heavy Machine. Quite a nicely balanced borg, although for light ones, I'd go with the Gold Slasher, or even lighter with a Light Machine, a 'kid' from New West, or a cyber-humanoid OCC from the bionics sourcebook.

[Mad Cow Milk]

Lets take a look at your premise...the GM says, your going to have more combat...and as a borg - one of the few choices that can really take and dish out damage, you choose a 220mdc armor for 3.8Million phase world credits (more to those people on rifts earth)...from a company that would like to take over..everything. Any other char can do that, and focus on stealth as well or better than you - what can you do that they can't? What I'm proposing is that you go with big guns and heavy armor made locally..or perhaps if you are a brain in a box full conversion borg get yourself implanted into a heavy borg body. Since you are playing a russian borg, I'll suggest the white tiger borg WB 17, p124...or a red borg with heavy armor..that sort of thing.

Thunderstorm Ultra Borg is the best Heavy Borg around. It may be "slow" at 50mph running for a borg. But the firepower and armor it commands are second to none.

For Light Borgs, the Triax Gold Slasher Borg is great.

The thunderstorm isn't really much fun at parties, though. I do agree that I like the standard Sovietski Heavy Machine. Quite a nicely balanced borg, although for light ones, I'd go with the Gold Slasher, or even lighter with a Light Machine, a 'kid' from New West, or a cyber-humanoid OCC from the bionics sourcebook.

I looked at the 'kid' cyborg armor in comparison to the Russian light cyborg, and the Russian is better than the 'kid' in most situations.

[Colt47]

Maybe I'm missing something, but from what I can recall the only cyborgs that would fit without modification in most forms of power armor are hidden (aka ghost in the Shell) borgs. I don't think the Kid model or the Russian light cyborg would fit, but I'll go double check.

[Dr Megaverse]

Pg 190 of New West lists the Kid as "Size: Human" and "Height: Usually about 6'4". Not sure if you fit into all PA with that height, but surely most.

[Comrade Corsarius]

It's why I would choose cyber-humanoid from the bionics sourcebook in this situation.

[Colt47]

Pg 190 of New West lists the Kid as "Size: Human" and "Height: Usually about 6'4". Not sure if you fit into all PA with that height, but surely most.

That's within the human norm so it would fit in all power armor. According to the US department of human health services, the average height of a human between age 18 and 72 is 69 inches for a man and 63.6 inches for women. While the Microsoft Encarta encyclopedia has the normal distribution of human height between 4 feet and 7 feet, with very few heights landing outside of this range.

Actually, that means the Russian light machine borg would also fit in power armor assuming he can find a decent suit... and weren't there other cyborgs at or under 7ft in height? I'm starting to think the biggest limiting factor would be what kind of modifications the borg has, such as external weapon systems.

[Dr Megaverse]

Pg 190 of New West lists the Kid as "Size: Human" and "Height: Usually about 6'4". Not sure if you fit into all PA with that height, but surely most.

That's within the human norm so it would fit in all power armor. According to the US department of human health services, the average height of a human between age 18 and 72 is 69 inches for a man and 63.6 inches for women. While the Microsoft Encarta encyclopedia has the normal distribution of human height between 4 feet and 7 feet, with very few heights landing outside of this range.

Actually, that means the Russian light machine borg would also fit in power armor assuming he can find a decent suit... and weren't there other cyborgs at or under 7ft in height? I'm starting to think the biggest limiting factor would be what kind of modifications the borg has, such as external weapon systems.

It's kind of a neat idea really. One of the drawbacks of PA is how squishy the pilot becomes once it's shot to hell and has to be discarded. A borg with no installed weapons stands a much better chance of crashing, surviving, and fighting their way back to base with a stolen weapon than a normal dude does. That's not even mentioning internal storage compartments...fugget about it!

[Thinyser]

Small chasis cyber humanoid say a 5' tall girl. 200 MDC
Add the following layers.
NE Cermalyte nightsuit 30 MDC
Triax plainclothes jumpsuit with hood. 12 MDC
NE SA-40 blackfist stealth power armor 220 MDC with built in NE heavy force field 150 MDC
Triax plainclothes Trenchcoat 15 MDC

Over kill? you bet.

[Mad Cow Milk]

Small chasis cyber humanoid say a 5' tall girl. 200 MDC
Add the following layers.
NE Cermalyte nightsuit 30 MDC
Triax plainclothes jumpsuit with hood. 12 MDC
NE SA-40 blackfist stealth power armor 220 MDC with built in NE heavy force field 150 MDC
Triax plainclothes Trenchcoat 15 MDC

Over kill? you bet.

Why would you really be able to mix plainclothes jumpsuit with a nightsuit, AND have this under a otherwise skin tight power armor? That doesn't make sense.

[Colt47]

Small chasis cyber humanoid say a 5' tall girl. 200 MDC
Add the following layers.
NE Cermalyte nightsuit 30 MDC
Triax plainclothes jumpsuit with hood. 12 MDC
NE SA-40 blackfist stealth power armor 220 MDC with built in NE heavy force field 150 MDC
Triax plainclothes Trenchcoat 15 MDC

Over kill? you bet.

Why would you really be able to mix plainclothes jumpsuit with a nightsuit, AND have this under a otherwise skin tight power armor? That doesn't make sense.

Well, it does if someone takes a scalpel and removes all that annoying stuff called skin...

[Thinyser]

Small chasis cyber humanoid say a 5' tall girl. 200 MDC
Add the following layers.
NE Cermalyte nightsuit 30 MDC
Triax plainclothes jumpsuit with hood. 12 MDC
NE SA-40 blackfist stealth power armor 220 MDC with built in NE heavy force field 150 MDC
Triax plainclothes Trenchcoat 15 MDC

Over kill? you bet.

Why would you really be able to mix plainclothes jumpsuit with a nightsuit, AND have this under a otherwise skin tight power armor? That doesn't make sense.

I'm sure you could get various sizes of the NE SA-40 its not as if Naruni is going to build them all the same size. Up size to accommodate the plainclothes armor. Admittedly you would have to forgo layering the helmets but I see no reason why one couldn't layer the nightsuit, which is tight like spandex, under plainclothes which are looser like real clothes under a powerarmor even one as form fitting as a NE SA-40 (which is not said to be skin tight that I recall) especially if one buys the size appropriate to fit over the layers.

[Colt47]

Whoops, I misread the armor listing and thought two different skin tight suits were included. Actually that would work just fine, though I wouldn't bother with the trench coat.

[Mad Cow Milk]

Small chasis cyber humanoid say a 5' tall girl. 200 MDC
Add the following layers.
NE Cermalyte nightsuit 30 MDC
Triax plainclothes jumpsuit with hood. 12 MDC
NE SA-40 blackfist stealth power armor 220 MDC with built in NE heavy force field 150 MDC
Triax plainclothes Trenchcoat 15 MDC

Over kill? you bet.

Why would you really be able to mix plainclothes jumpsuit with a nightsuit, AND have this under a otherwise skin tight power armor? That doesn't make sense.

I'm sure you could get various sizes of the NE SA-40 its not as if Naruni is going to build them all the same size. Up size to accommodate the plainclothes armor. Admittedly you would have to forgo layering the helmets but I see no reason why one couldn't layer the nightsuit, which is tight like spandex, under plainclothes which are loser like real clothes under a powerarmor even one as form fitting as a NE SA-40 (which is not said to be skin tight that I recall) especially if one buys the size appropriate to fit over the layers.

At some point this combination will probably become incapable to moving. Logic needs to come into play. You are wearing a spandex suit, with a heavy blanket tight suit, with a stiff jacket over that, plus whatever nonsense you have thought up. I don't care if some of them don't mention a movement penalty, when layered on top of each other they should and any GM would be in good graces to do so.

So in the end you can break the game as much as you want if that is your goal. I would just rather play it.

Cyborgs such as the Russian one, are designed to use normal armor, power armor, and robots. Laying obscure crap on top of each other is not in design.

[Thinyser]

Whoops, I misread the armor listing and thought two different skin tight suits were included. Actually that would work just fine, though I wouldn't bother with the trench coat.

Trenchcoat is for the "look"... Though when using the GI Joe rule where the last damage that overcomes the armor is entirely absorbed its always nice to have that extra layer. If sombody were to make it through the force field its nice to be able to take that extra shot to the trenchcoat before you get to the expensive to repair/replace NE SA-40.

Thats more or less the basis of this layering. Its going to make you damn hard to kill since even once something is destroyed by that last damage you still have another layer under that that even though it may only be 30 MDC it can absorb a single attack that would "punch thorugh" and stop all damage. Its a cheesy rule but one can use it to their advantage even more by layering their defenses.

[Thinyser]

Small chasis cyber humanoid say a 5' tall girl. 200 MDC
Add the following layers.
NE Cermalyte nightsuit 30 MDC
Triax plainclothes jumpsuit with hood. 12 MDC
NE SA-40 blackfist stealth power armor 220 MDC with built in NE heavy force field 150 MDC
Triax plainclothes Trenchcoat 15 MDC

Over kill? you bet.

Why would you really be able to mix plainclothes jumpsuit with a nightsuit, AND have this under a otherwise skin tight power armor? That doesn't make sense.

I'm sure you could get various sizes of the NE SA-40 its not as if Naruni is going to build them all the same size. Up size to accommodate the plainclothes armor. Admittedly you would have to forgo layering the helmets but I see no reason why one couldn't layer the nightsuit, which is tight like spandex, under plainclothes which are loser like real clothes under a powerarmor even one as form fitting as a NE SA-40 (which is not said to be skin tight that I recall) especially if one buys the size appropriate to fit over the layers.

At some point this combination will probably become incapable to moving. Logic needs to come into play. You are wearing a spandex suit, with a heavy blanket tight suit, with a stiff jacket over that, plus whatever nonsense you have thought up. I don't care if some of them don't mention a movement penalty, when layered on top of each other they should and any GM would be in good graces to do so.

So in the end you can break the game as much as you want if that is your goal. I would just rather play it.

Cyborgs such as the Russian one, are designed to use normal armor, power armor, and robots. Laying obscure crap on top of each other is not in design.

Considering that it would be on a cyber-humanoid which appears fully human with robotic strength and the nightsuit and plainclothes are designed for normal strength humans I would not assume that any movement penalty would apply. Layering over top of a mechanical looking borg with all sorts of funny angles and whatnot would probably be a different story and I guess there could be some binding issues but its not as if the borg would notice if the armor started to give him a wedgie or was rubbing his thighs raw... no skin and very few touch sensors is and advantage in this case And I'm sure the robotic strength could overcome any hindrance that layering a nightsuit and plainclothes armor offers.

[azazel1024]

I would use the lower speed limit of the armor. For the strength, use the robotic strength of the armor as that is going to do more damage and has higher lifting capacity that what cyborg strength allows AFAIK. Just make sure that the cyborg is close enough to human dimensions to fit inside of the thing.

[G]

I'm still voting for the white tiger borg from Russia. Its 10' tall, 6' wide, weighing in at two tons worth of pure style...its also very fast with no prowl penalty. Cybernodes have more style than the jetpack..allowing your big cat to run at 288mph and make amazing jet assisted jumps, like the terrain hopper.

The red borg is puny by comparison.

[Lenwen]

The way i would rule on this is that you would roll for a chance at damaging the pa every so often. I like the idea of this tho, you would have to be a very small borg to fit most pa,s...

[Mad Cow Milk]

The way i would rule on this is that you would roll for a chance at damaging the pa every so often. I like the idea of this tho, you would have to be a very small borg to fit most pa,s...

A few cyborgs specifically say they can use normal armor. Logic says they can use power armor and robots.

I talked to my GM and he said that I could ether up the armor's strength and speed to match my character, or more likely, put the power armor into neutral like a car, to allow it to mostly run off character's abilities and just work to support its own weight, but both will take time.

[Mad Cow Milk]

I'm still voting for the white tiger borg from Russia. Its 10' tall, 6' wide, weighing in at two tons worth of pure style...its also very fast with no prowl penalty. Cybernodes have more style than the jetpack..allowing your big cat to run at 288mph and make amazing jet assisted jumps, like the terrain hopper.

The red borg is puny by comparison.

It is totally against the very concept of a stealth borg. No it isnt optimal, but it is my cool idea, and because it is cool I am happy with it.

[G]

Okay, as a cyborg from the Russia book you have the following choices with that come with the prowl skill & a bonus to prowl:
-Mantis, prowl +5%
-Assassin cyborg, prowl +15%
-Avenging Angel, prowl +15%

I think the mantis bonus should be higher, but thats just me...apparently the borg doesn't do very well at its intended purpose...which really isn't unusual.

My choice would be the avenging angel, on the account it has more style than the assassin borg...and a bigger prowl bonus than the mantis, which seems to be important to you. Plus it can fly and has missiles, which is always nice.

[Mad Cow Milk]

Okay, as a cyborg from the Russia book you have the following choices with that come with the prowl skill & a bonus to prowl:
-Mantis, prowl +5%
-Assassin cyborg, prowl +15%
-Avenging Angel, prowl +15%

I think the mantis bonus should be higher, but thats just me...apparently the borg doesn't do very well at its intended purpose...which really isn't unusual.

My choice would be the avenging angel, on the account it has more style than the assassin borg...and a bigger prowl bonus than the mantis, which seems to be important to you. Plus it can fly and has missiles, which is always nice.

The mantis is 12 feet tall! Angel is 10ft tall with a wing-span of 16ft! Not very practical for using normal human environments such as in-doors.

Assassin borg only has a tactile sensitivity of 75% and can only leap 12 feet high and 18 feet across. Plus the extra arms makes it rather obvious that they are not human.

[Faceless Dude]

I looked over the Russian Light Machine, and based on the dimensions I can see no reason why you could be a light machine and then put on the NE-SA40. The only reason I can see not to do this is cost. at almost 4million credits a pop, the SA40 is not going to be cheap or easy to repair in case the stealth fails you and bullets start flying.

As a cheaper alternative, I'd suggest using the Medium Cyborg armor (170 MDC) and then seeing if your GM will let it be a Naruni-supplied Cyborg armor and get the coating similar to the NE-C20 Camouflage armor and that should fulfill your stealth requirement. Add a Naruni Force Field as well and you should be good to go.

[Grell]

As a cheaper alternative, I'd suggest using the Medium Cyborg armor (170 MDC) and then seeing if your GM will let it be a Naruni-supplied Cyborg armor and get the coating similar to the NE-C20 Camouflage armor and that should fulfill your stealth requirement. Add a Naruni Force Field as well and you should be good to go.

I would second this suggestion.

[keir451]

Well as I have spoken before on this forum I have a light full conversion cyborg that is forcusing on stealth.

As a change of events that GM is strongly promoting the use of NE equipment, as the party has been playing it too safe as of late, and needs some more conflict.

This though brings up a good question.
I logically am pushing to use a NE~SA40 (Dimension book 8, pg 49.)
As a light cyborg from Russia, chassis has a strength of 28, while the power armor will have a strength of 25. My character will be stronger than the armor. How should I suggest to my GM handle this?

Thanks,
MCM

Unfortunately MY suggestion would be "No way, Jose." As a Cyborg you're already as fast and as armored as many suits of Power Armor (even as a light cyborg) and I agree with Comrade Corsarius that the armor couldn't handle the over pressures and would break. You'd be better off paying Naruni to modify your current cyborg body with their stealth tech or have then build you a brand new body for the equivalent price of (or less) of a PA unit.

[Colt47]

Well as I have spoken before on this forum I have a light full conversion cyborg that is forcusing on stealth.

As a change of events that GM is strongly promoting the use of NE equipment, as the party has been playing it too safe as of late, and needs some more conflict.

This though brings up a good question.
I logically am pushing to use a NE~SA40 (Dimension book 8, pg 49.)
As a light cyborg from Russia, chassis has a strength of 28, while the power armor will have a strength of 25. My character will be stronger than the armor. How should I suggest to my GM handle this?

Thanks,
MCM

Unfortunately MY suggestion would be "No way, Jose." As a Cyborg you're already as fast and as armored as many suits of Power Armor (even as a light cyborg) and I agree with Comrade Corsarius that the armor couldn't handle the over pressures and would break. You'd be better off paying Naruni to modify your current cyborg body with their stealth tech or have then build you a brand new body for the equivalent price of (or less) of a PA unit.

Which is why the Cyber Humanoid is the most PA friendly cyborg.

[Mad Cow Milk]

Which is why the Cyber Humanoid is the most PA friendly cyborg.

But the Cyber Humanoid is a body frame completely linked to a O.C.C. that can't take Pilot Robots and Power Armor.
Only the Techno-Hound Headhunter and the Russian Light Machine can take Pilot Robots and PA (and O.C.C.'s from Triax 2, but I don't have the book).
In USA/Canada I will go to the Kid route, with a Technohound. That will allows me to pilot SAMAS or TITAN flying PA's with little modifications (80kg of weight overhead...), but a Borg is not a stealthy class by definition. In any case, the Kid have the option of full realistic skin covering (a thing that a Light Machine doesn't have), and that helps a lot in infiltration.
In any case, and in response of the original question, the PA will not give more strength to you if the PA is weaker than you. In facts, I think that the PA will limit the max strength to the maximum of the armor (or one should risk damaging it). The same problem will arise with a character with Supernatural PS and a Power Armor.
For the weight and height, a Cyber Humanoid, CSLNGR Kid MK1, or a Russian Light Machine are all below 2mt, and that is the height I think is the max height for PA design. Weight should be a issue, specially for Flying PA's, but I think is fixable with Aircraft Mechanics and/or Robot Mechanics, or it will penalize the maximum speed attainable by the PA (no more than 25%). Other military vehicles are designed with more headroom (by example, the CS HoverCycles should be able to sustain the weight of a full armored CS Cyborg Trooper, because they can be assigned with one), but not enough for a Russian Heavy Machine (250-300kg Max?)

Very true. Plus, I am not talking about passing for human, more like sneaking around and performing distant surveillance and covert military infiltration.

Also note that the cyber humanoid has a MAXIMUM PP of 20.

[azazel1024]

If you are within the physical size constraints of a normal human, why not?

Also the strength of power armor is robotic, which is not the case with a cyborg (well, most). So a robotic PS of 20 is in most ways actually stronger than a cybernetic PS of 20. One of the big issues I have with the attribute system, there shouldn't be "different levels". You want a supernaturally strong character, okay their PS is 60 but "mundane". Get to a high enough PS level and the damage becomes megadamage.

Anyway, considering the fact that cyborgs muscles have various eletronic controllers, there is absolutely no reason to believe a cyborg can't set limiters to prevent themselves from damaging the suit, limiting themselves to the attribute constraints of the suits in regards to power and speed to prevent damage.

Sure, it munchkinises things a little to have, say, a cyborg with 250MDC, is super strong, fast and deft with some built in weapons piloting something like a glitterboy or SAMAS, and then if the PA is torn apart, you still have your super strong cyborg inside...but there isn't any logical or rule based reason why that still can't happen, other than most cyborgs tend to rely on just themselves, or maybe some armor and weapons strapped on. They aren't big on learning to pilot PA, robots, vehicles, etc. Doesn't mean one couldn't though.

In addition, I'd imagine you would have a group of light cyborg who would decide or be choosen to be PA pilots. Just like whatever the juicer class is (phaeton?) from WB10:JU, they are ideally suited to be pilots. There is no breathing, circulation is limited to the little bits of nervous system and brain that are left (and artificial), reflexes are super fast (mostly electronic/optical artificial nervous system and artifical muscles which probably react much faster/stronger than human muscles can), etc. You have something that can react much faster, see better and withstand G-forces that would knock a human unconcious, be distracting or otherwise impair a human being. You also have the potential to have a machine to cyborg interface that goes well beyond what a non-cybernetically enhanced human can have.

So not just fighter pilots, but PA pilots would be chief positions for some of these guys. Honestly I'd like to see some advanced cyborg power armor at some point that is designed for cyborg pilots specifically, because it is so strong/fast/integrated as to take advantage of them. I'd think a place like Russia/Sovietski especially would have a cyborg PA corps as well as cyborg designed power armor, as would some places like potentially Triax/NGR and Japan.

[TechnoGothic]

I do not see why a Cyborg would want a Power Armor at all.
Power Armor is simple enviromental Body Armor which enhances PS, gives a person weapons and boosts speed by either running or flying.

A Cyborg is Power Armor. He already has enhanced attributes, speed, weapons, full enviromental systems built-in. All he needs is extra Protection aspect of body armor. If he needs to fly they is cyborg jet-packs, Flight Systems available for them.

Borgs can use the Icarus or Deathwing Flight-pack Systems rember for near Mach1 flight speeds.

[azazel1024]

A) Additional protection
B) Potentially flying ability
C) Potentially more strength (PA has robotic PS, most cyborgs do not)
D) Potentially more speed (a few suits of PA have higher running speeds than the average light borg)
E) Additional environmental protection (Borgs don't have unlimited endurance without air, PA doesn't either, but it adds that much more endurance to an already long endurance for a borg)
F) More weapons. Most borgs, especially light ones have few built in weapons or particular strong ones. Most medium/heavy suits of PA have several weapon systems, which make most (not all) cyborg weapon systems look a little punny

[Giant2005]

A) Additional protection
B) Potentially flying ability
C) Potentially more strength (PA has robotic PS, most cyborgs do not)
D) Potentially more speed (a few suits of PA have higher running speeds than the average light borg)
E) Additional environmental protection (Borgs don't have unlimited endurance without air, PA doesn't either, but it adds that much more endurance to an already long endurance for a borg)
F) More weapons. Most borgs, especially light ones have few built in weapons or particular strong ones. Most medium/heavy suits of PA have several weapon systems, which make most (not all) cyborg weapon systems look a little punny

All of the above comes with a pretty hefty price tag when attatched to a PA.
With the exception of the strength, they can all be achieved much cheaper by upgrading the borg as opposed to buying a PA.

[Colt47]

Which is why the Cyber Humanoid is the most PA friendly cyborg.

But the Cyber Humanoid is a body frame completely linked to a O.C.C. that can't take Pilot Robots and Power Armor.
Only the Techno-Hound Headhunter and the Russian Light Machine can take Pilot Robots and PA (and O.C.C.'s from Triax 2, but I don't have the book).
In USA/Canada I will go to the Kid route, with a Technohound. That will allows me to pilot SAMAS or TITAN flying PA's with little modifications (80kg of weight overhead...), but a Borg is not a stealthy class by definition. In any case, the Kid have the option of full realistic skin covering (a thing that a Light Machine doesn't have), and that helps a lot in infiltration.
In any case, and in response of the original question, the PA will not give more strength to you if the PA is weaker than you. In facts, I think that the PA will limit the max strength to the maximum of the armor (or one should risk damaging it). The same problem will arise with a character with Supernatural PS and a Power Armor.
For the weight and height, a Cyber Humanoid, CSLNGR Kid MK1, or a Russian Light Machine are all below 2mt, and that is the height I think is the max height for PA design. Weight should be a issue, specially for Flying PA's, but I think is fixable with Aircraft Mechanics and/or Robot Mechanics, or it will penalize the maximum speed attainable by the PA (no more than 25%). Other military vehicles are designed with more headroom (by example, the CS HoverCycles should be able to sustain the weight of a full armored CS Cyborg Trooper, because they can be assigned with one), but not enough for a Russian Heavy Machine (250-300kg Max?)

Very true. Plus, I am not talking about passing for human, more like sneaking around and performing distant surveillance and covert military infiltration.

Also note that the cyber humanoid has a MAXIMUM PP of 20.

I kind of like the maximum PP being set at 20 as the bonuses from Power Armor piloting can be pretty extreme when added to those granted by cybernetic implants. It's true that the Cyber Humanoid is an OCC, just my own philosophy on cyborgs in Rifts is that the cyborg chassis is not linked strictly to any one OCC. Heck, I'd imagine the CS would be all over the ultra light / hidden borg chassis because it promotes a human image, provides good augmentation, and allows the borg to use all standard CS gear as well as heavy weapons. It also gives the added perk of the borg being able to live a relatively normal life while on break.

Also are you suggesting 20 PP isn't good enough? What is the norm these days?

[taalismn]

A) Additional protection
B) Potentially flying ability
C) Potentially more strength (PA has robotic PS, most cyborgs do not)
D) Potentially more speed (a few suits of PA have higher running speeds than the average light borg)
E) Additional environmental protection (Borgs don't have unlimited endurance without air, PA doesn't either, but it adds that much more endurance to an already long endurance for a borg)
F) More weapons. Most borgs, especially light ones have few built in weapons or particular strong ones. Most medium/heavy suits of PA have several weapon systems, which make most (not all) cyborg weapon systems look a little punny

All of the above comes with a pretty hefty price tag when attatched to a PA.
With the exception of the strength, they can all be achieved much cheaper by upgrading the borg as opposed to buying a PA.

Well, sometimes you don't want to sacrifice size and mobility to become a permanent tank. A cyberhumanoid using a power armor has the advantage of disguise, especially if their PA looks like a much heavier cyborg...in a tight situation, the CH might be able to ditch their outer 'shell' and try to pass on visual inspection as just another meatbag, rather than that big assault 'borg that was getting its arse kicked.
It's also convenience. A fullcon with an exo can take damage(say, light to moderate) to the exo and its weapons, then back at base step out of the exo and turn it over to his garage crew, then go and join his buddies for a beer while the mechanics fix the guns and armor(as opposed to being stuck in one's assault chassis bored out of your wits in the hangar while the the mechanics work on you). Think of it as the difference between leaving your car at the garage or having to sit in it all night waiting for it to get fixed.
Put another way, cyborg power armor allows you to have the advantages of a larger, heavier, cyborg chassis class while not losing whatever social advantages you might have from the smaller chassis class. While many Rifts bars can accommodate partial to light, and sometimes heavy, fullcons, few of them can(or will) cater to a fully armed-up Assault Cyborg, no matter how polite the 'borg may be.

The perfect examnple of a cyborg exo-armor is the anime/CGI movie Appleseed, where full conversion Briareos has a Guges scaled to him. He's an obvious big bad cyborg, but the power armor is effectively a set of 'working clothes'.