A solution to a glittery problem for smaller kingdoms

[Comrade Corsarius]

It's long been held that the USA-G10 powered armour, commonly known as the 'Glitter Boy' is the absolute standard of power for a kingdom, barony, or minor republic.

Those who can afford one will just about cripple themselves doing so, paying huge money for expensive training and outfitting of local forces, or those that can only afford a mercenary with one will quickly discover a) how devious said merc can be if the battle goes sour and b) still have to pony up for the highly specialised repairs (uh, no, we just weld patches onto things. Molecularly-bonded chrome armour is a bit out of our league. You'll have to stay damaged, I'm afraid) and ammunition (You'll have to wait three weeks for the post to arrive via sky-ship, and seeing that Quebec has been buying up all stocks lately, we'll have to put in a back order. Your PA has hands, doesn't it? Can you just use a regular rail gun until we get that shipped? )

So here's a potential solution that I can imagine the folks at Chipwell (purveyors of quality merchandise to the cash-strapped) have come up with.

In the same manner that some people in the 1980s bought a kit to make their VW beetle resemble a porsche, so too can Chipwell provide a bolt-on kit to make their CAS-30 Assault Suit and CAI-100 Warmonger powered armour look more the part.

These machines actually have more in common with the famous Glitter Boy than you'd expect. They are all within 3 to 3.5 metres tall. They have approximately similar speeds, and they all have over-the-shoulder weapon systems (boom gun for the GB, missile launchers for the Assault Suit and Warmonger).

With a look-alike bolt-on kit, the Chipwell product would resemble the G-10 and still retain its weapon systems. This means that a small kingdom operating on a modest budget would be able to produce quite a number of GB lookalikes for its soldiers, while at the same time forking out the big bucks for the occasional GB for officers, aces, and royalty. Remember that while the Warmonger may only have 40 MDC, the assault suit is nuclear powered with a main body of 150. Still low, but it can take some punishment.

Naturally, it's just shiny and not laser-resistant, but hey, when they all look alike, are YOU going to be able to tell the difference (military intelligence roll at -20%)

It comes down to simple economics. A single Glitter Boy costs 25 million credits (RMB p219), punching out 3d6x10 per attack at 3.2km range while the Chipwell Assault Suit costs a mere 250k credits (Mercenaries p145), firing off mini-missiles at 1d6x10 at around the 1.6km range. Let's assume that Chipwell knocks on 100k credits for the conversion. This means that for the price of a single GB, the minor kingdom could afford Seventy-one glitter boy lookalikes (and some change). One unit does not provide a great deal of flexibility. Seventy one does. Group firing from one boom gun does a maximum of 180MDC per shot. Group firing from seventy-one WI-23 launchers does a maximum of 4260.

Repairs and ammunition are going to be fairly cheap as mini-missiles are common (as are standard rail gun rounds, or the Wilks Quality Laser Weaponry cunningly built into the arms), and repairs are a matter of simple MD repair, with an overskin of shiny regular chrome.

You can see the economists in various small kingdoms eyes light up when they are provided with these kinds of numbers (which is why the regular chipwell models sell so well), and if they can be made (for a small fee) to LOOK like a GB, or even have GBs amongst them (for those with a bit extra cash) then all the better.

Opinions?

[Shark_Force]

minor side note, ammunition for a glitter boy is stated to require nothing more than a fairly standard machine shop. so that part, at least, is not expensive to take care of (of course, that still leaves repairs and buying the danged thing in the first place, which is plenty expensive)

[Dr Megaverse]

I like it! However I think personally I'd increase the conversion cost. Maybe I'm a jerk but I'd price it to be equivalent to 4/5 the items cost. Still affordable IMO. Great idea!

[Comrade Corsarius]

The idea is a good one, though personally I'd spring for a different power armor myself like Flying Titan or Samson. Better Protection and better fire power and still WAY less then the GB.

The idea is to keep the costs down.... and I'm pretty sure that a winged GB that could fly would give the game away a little. The thing that gave me the idea was that these are ground-based powered armour with similar speeds and size, and over-the-shoulder weapons.

[Comrade Corsarius]

Also the Warmonger and Glitterboy DO not look close enough that any one with a knowledge of a Glitterboy would confuse the two in the least.

Sure, which is why you have a modification kit. Bolt-on plates over the arms, a GB-looking head to replace the existing one, and conceal the missile launcher in a housing that resembles a boom gun.

After all, copyright law kinda died with the cataclysm, so I don't think there's any real issue with direct knock-off lookalikes.

EDIT: In general, this argument relates to the Chipwell Assault Suit, which is relatively decent, rather than the Warmonger, which I suggested due to size and weapons rather than any sane reason of modifying it (unless you wanted one-off battles)

As for the NG Samson (love that armour, btw), I see no problem but the entire weapons system needs rejiggering (up the price) and also people might get a bit suspicious when they see a 'glitter boy' streaking round at 240kph. Other than that, sure why not? My argument was to provide the lowest price available, meaning the highest number of powered suits available. If you want to modify quality go right ahead, but if that's the case why not just get a standard GB and be done with it? One GB buys 29.41 NG Samsons, which, while still tactically superior to a single GB, will still be outgunned (although not outrun!) and outflanked by a numerically-superior enemy with only 100mdc less per main body than the Samson. More units also means you can have more down for service and rotations, and replacements should something go sour.

Were I piloting, naturally I would take the samson. Were I the economist, master of finance, master of army, or Prince of a small kingdom, I'd take the Cheapw...uh... Chipwell option due to greater operational flexibility at the cost of higher speed. Ninjabunny's approach appears to be the former, which for adventurers I would certainly agree upon, although this is not my point.

[keir451]

I'd go for the NG exo suit instead. One can outfit a small army for the price of a GB which technically needs specialised electron coated railgun rounds as well as specialized chromium armor and GB parts for repairs. That cost includes all the "man portable" railguns and energy weapons you need for said army. Where as if you buy a GB you pretty much sink all your money into a very powerful weapon that can only be in one place aat any given point during a battle and would be the target of EVERY weapon system your enemies can throw at you. Imagine a force of say 100 soldiers wearing the exo suit armed with Wilks 1000 laser cannons doing 3d4x10 +10 (IIRC ) versus ONE GB doing 3d6x10. Even at half damage those 100 soldiers will slaga GB pretty quickly. The same principle CAn be applied to the Chipwell suits as well if you want.

[Comrade Corsarius]

I'd go for the NG exo suit instead. One can outfit a small army for the price of a GB which technically needs specialised electron coated railgun rounds as well as specialized chromium armor and GB parts for repairs. That cost includes all the "man portable" railguns and energy weapons you need for said army. Where as if you buy a GB you pretty much sink all your money into a very powerful weapon that can only be in one place aat any given point during a battle and would be the target of EVERY weapon system your enemies can throw at you. Imagine a force of say 100 soldiers wearing the exo suit armed with Wilks 1000 laser cannons doing 3d4x10 +10 (IIRC ) versus ONE GB doing 3d6x10. Even at half damage those 100 soldiers will slaga GB pretty quickly. The same principle CAn be applied to the Chipwell suits as well if you want.

Which was my point exactly.

It's psychological as well as tactical warfare.

Just for fun, let's do the numbers on the *shudder* warmonger if it is upgraded.... One USA-G10 costs 25 mil and does 3d6x10 for a minimum damage per attack of 30 and a maximum of 180. For the same price you can outfit two hundred and fifty warmongers for battle (although not far from home due to power requirements) doing 250d6x10 per melee (assuming a hit) doing a minimum of 2500MD and a maximum of 15000MD per attack.

I would assume, simply due to numbers, tactical flexiblity, feints, sneak attacks, flanking moves and whatnot that are possible with a large number of troops, that bringing this amount of firepower to bear will mean that you will lose soldiers, but rather less than you think.

Particularly if your neighbouring state/dictatorship/kingdom/oligarchy has decided to put their eggs into one basket and just buy a glitter boy. Imagine the look on the opposing army's face when they see two hundred and fifty glitter boys come over the ridge to attack, particularly if they are mixed in with Assault Suit conversions and REAL glitter boys to boot.

[Killer Cyborg]

Good idea; I like it.

[taalismn]

As Potemkin Village schemes go, it's a money-maker...as long as nobody calls your bluff and decides to bring up their Glitteryboy-killing heavy artillery(or leaks Chipwell's customer list).

[Lenwen]

Just an FYI .. there is actually a Flight capable Glitterboy ..

Also If I were the ruler of a smallish kingdom .. I'd put all my beans into as many Jager's as I could find .. Their versatility is beyond anything seen on the open market in North America ..

And iirc .. Their cost is not as prohibitive as Glitterboy's .. buy in bulk .. and even buy transports for as much as a glitterboy costs .

You will have to purchase all its sweet accessories on an as needed basis tho which is the tricky part .. the most bang for your buck would be the incredible mini missile drum . Something like 72 missiles on the drum which basically fits over the head of the Jager . Each can do up to 1d6x10 times that by 72 and you literally have thee deadliest PA .

[Nightmask]

Just an FYI .. there is actually a Flight capable Glitterboy ..

Also If I were the ruler of a smallish kingdom .. I'd put all my beans into as many Jager's as I could find .. Their versatility is beyond anything seen on the open market in North America ..

And iirc .. Their cost is not as prohibitive as Glitterboy's .. buy in bulk .. and even buy transports for as much as a glitterboy costs .

You will have to purchase all its sweet accessories on an as needed basis tho which is the tricky part .. the most bang for your buck would be the incredible mini missile drum . Something like 72 missiles on the drum which basically fits over the head of the Jager . Each can do up to 1d6x10 times that by 72 and you literally have thee deadliest PA .

It's as much about the image it presents as firepower. As something feared and respected by just about everyone the Glitter Boy can give you 'I'm not messing with them' power that the Jagers won't even if you've got more of them than you've got of Glitter Boys.

[SkyeFyre]

Just an FYI .. there is actually a Flight capable Glitterboy ..

Also If I were the ruler of a smallish kingdom .. I'd put all my beans into as many Jager's as I could find .. Their versatility is beyond anything seen on the open market in North America ..

And iirc .. Their cost is not as prohibitive as Glitterboy's .. buy in bulk .. and even buy transports for as much as a glitterboy costs .

You will have to purchase all its sweet accessories on an as needed basis tho which is the tricky part .. the most bang for your buck would be the incredible mini missile drum . Something like 72 missiles on the drum which basically fits over the head of the Jager . Each can do up to 1d6x10 times that by 72 and you literally have thee deadliest PA .

If only Jagers were that easily found and purchased in NA. Don't forget the concept of availability.

[keir451]

I'd go for the NG exo suit instead. One can outfit a small army for the price of a GB which technically needs specialised electron coated railgun rounds as well as specialized chromium armor and GB parts for repairs. That cost includes all the "man portable" railguns and energy weapons you need for said army. Where as if you buy a GB you pretty much sink all your money into a very powerful weapon that can only be in one place aat any given point during a battle and would be the target of EVERY weapon system your enemies can throw at you. Imagine a force of say 100 soldiers wearing the exo suit armed with Wilks 1000 laser cannons doing 3d4x10 +10 (IIRC ) versus ONE GB doing 3d6x10. Even at half damage those 100 soldiers will slaga GB pretty quickly. The same principle CAn be applied to the Chipwell suits as well if you want.

Which was my point exactly.

It's psychological as well as tactical warfare.

Just for fun, let's do the numbers on the *shudder* warmonger if it is upgraded.... One USA-G10 costs 25 mil and does 3d6x10 for a minimum damage per attack of 30 and a maximum of 180. For the same price you can outfit two hundred and fifty warmongers for battle (although not far from home due to power requirements) doing 250d6x10 per melee (assuming a hit) doing a minimum of 2500MD and a maximum of 15000MD per attack.

I would assume, simply due to numbers, tactical flexiblity, feints, sneak attacks, flanking moves and whatnot that are possible with a large number of troops, that bringing this amount of firepower to bear will mean that you will lose soldiers, but rather less than you think.

Particularly if your neighbouring state/dictatorship/kingdom/oligarchy has decided to put their eggs into one basket and just buy a glitter boy. Imagine the look on the opposing army's face when they see two hundred and fifty glitter boys come over the ridge to attack, particularly if they are mixed in with Assault Suit conversions and REAL glitter boys to boot.

Ya wanna see their expressions, do ya? Here ya go- RUN AWAYYYYY!!!!!!!

[taalismn]

You will have to purchase all its sweet accessories on an as needed basis tho which is the tricky part .. the most bang for your buck would be the incredible mini missile drum . Something like 72 missiles on the drum which basically fits over the head of the Jager . Each can do up to 1d6x10 times that by 72 and you literally have thee deadliest PA .

Make sure to leave plenty in your defense budget for reloads...and give the missile launchers to pilots who aren't going to panic and missile-spam at the first sign of trouble. Nothing like trying to fire missiles you DON'T HAVE, unless it's the poor guys who have to run along the edge of the battlefield with the reloads praying nobody sends some suppressive artillery their way...

[Shark_Force]

Well I do not think there is any kingdom outside of Free Quebec that could afford to field over a dozen glitter boys anyway, so seeing a ton on the battlefield would be an instant cue to the attacker that something is up. Quite possibly they would be rattled, but it would take a little more than what amounts to a snazzy paint job to convince the enemy that you actually have that many glitter boys on the field, especially if it is well-known that Chipwell Armaments is selling these things (those guys will peddle their crap to anybody).

Used more tactically, this could prove useful, such as positioning small numbers of "chipper boys" in places where they can quickly fall back out of sight, then be replaced by fresh versions while still maintaining the guise of being the same number of troops. But it still amounts to nothing more than a deception tactic, and I think there are probably cheaper ways to go about it.

depends on how you look at it, i guess.

for one thing, any nation *could* find a cache of them, so any nation *could* have a small army of them.

but also, let's say you as a nation city have an army consisting of 2 glitter boys and 10 assault suits, and it's reasonable to assume your enemies know this (or at least that they know you have some small number of glitter boys without knowing specifically how many). by having the 10 assault suits look like glitter boys, you can make it hard for the other guy to plan; are your glitter boys in the middle, on the edges, 100 feet behind the main battle line in a sniper position, or are they even on the battlefield at all? which of those groups have glitter boys in them? who do you focus your variable frequency lasers on? which enemy group do you need cover against most? which of those enemy troops are actually packing mini-missiles or grenade launchers and will annihilate groups of enemies more easily, and which has the guns that will cut through heavy armor like it isn't even there but only kills one enemy at a time?

essentially, it's handy for the ability to make the enemy have to treat all parts of your military as if there are glitter boys in that group, even if they know you only have one or two.

[G]

Technically a cheap large cheap force is better than a small expensive force. Even for the cost of one SAMAS, you can buy quite a few cheap things as well. Although it is more fun to be playing the one individual in a transformable robot worth untold amounts, than 1 person in an army of cheap stuff.
Its easier to field a single unit, train a single person, a single person is generally more agile than an entire army...we could go through the pros and cons...but at the end of the day when I did this many years ago the decision was made that most of the large robots would never get used.

Years ago I ended up with the idea of simply giving everyone in your city a 1d6md pistol. At the time I had used the wilks laser pistol, it has good range & ammo capacity, is light, looks good, has been around forever, and a +2 to hit (which is really nice). Assume you produce them yourself or get a bulk discount, although there may be better weapons around now. I suppose we could try something like an MP23 or CFT weapons but they don't have nice bonuses to hit. Add to that an armored trench coat for everyone and your citizens should always have both gun and armor. Multiply that by a million people. If there are even 1000 around when any incident happens, that is enough damage to deal with many problems.

[Comrade Corsarius]

Technically a cheap large cheap force is better than a small expensive force. Even for the cost of one SAMAS, you can buy quite a few cheap things as well. Although it is more fun to be playing the one individual in a transformable robot worth untold amounts, than 1 person in an army of cheap stuff.
Its easier to field a single unit, train a single person, a single person is generally more agile than an entire army...we could go through the pros and cons...but at the end of the day when I did this many years ago the decision was made that most of the large robots would never get used.

Years ago I ended up with the idea of simply giving everyone in your city a 1d6md pistol. At the time I had used the wilks laser pistol, it has good range & ammo capacity, is light, looks good, has been around forever, and a +2 to hit (which is really nice). Assume you produce them yourself or get a bulk discount, although there may be better weapons around now. I suppose we could try something like an MP23 or CFT weapons but they don't have nice bonuses to hit. Add to that an armored trench coat for everyone and your citizens should always have both gun and armor. Multiply that by a million people. If there are even 1000 around when any incident happens, that is enough damage to deal with many problems.

Yes, this is known as "Lanchester's Laws"

[Comrade Corsarius]

depends on how you look at it, i guess.

for one thing, any nation *could* find a cache of them, so any nation *could* have a small army of them.

but also, let's say you as a nation city have an army consisting of 2 glitter boys and 10 assault suits, and it's reasonable to assume your enemies know this (or at least that they know you have some small number of glitter boys without knowing specifically how many). by having the 10 assault suits look like glitter boys, you can make it hard for the other guy to plan; are your glitter boys in the middle, on the edges, 100 feet behind the main battle line in a sniper position, or are they even on the battlefield at all? which of those groups have glitter boys in them? who do you focus your variable frequency lasers on? which enemy group do you need cover against most? which of those enemy troops are actually packing mini-missiles or grenade launchers and will annihilate groups of enemies more easily, and which has the guns that will cut through heavy armor like it isn't even there but only kills one enemy at a time?

essentially, it's handy for the ability to make the enemy have to treat all parts of your military as if there are glitter boys in that group, even if they know you only have one or two.

Thank you Shark_Force! This is precisely the idea that I had... (That and the quantity vs quality argument). Nobody knows where the 'real' GB is and must therefore treat ALL units as GB until proven otherwise.