Question about HU2 and Ninjas and Superspies

[bathawk]

pg.164 of Ninjas and Superspies gives guidlines on including "special" Martial Arts with the core 10 Heroes Unlimied Power Categories (in short all but aliens and magic are allowed)

However page 48 in Heroes Unlimited states only special training and and physical training are allowed access

So which is "correct"?

Of course that dosen't include the 10 new power categories from PU2, I was goign to use the equivilant expierience charts as a guideline, but as the Anchient Weapons Master uses the magic table, i don't think that would work (after all AWM should have at least the same options as special/physical training)

I would of course regarless of what's official allow alien characters to take special martial arts if they are part of one of the accepted sub-categories (ie; Alien: Physical Training)

[Nightmask]

Ninjas and Superspies coming out before the latest version of Heroes Unlimited is the likely cause for the discrepancy. The Special Training and Physical Training classes I would say are seen as the ones with most common access to the wider range of specialty MA as seen in Ninjas and Superspies, but other power categories also having access isn't impossible of the player's able to justify his Hardware: Analytical for example having learned it. At least one NPC's becoming a mutant was a result of his Ninjitsu training (although while he's got the Ninjas and Superspies special abilities available to a Ninja only seems to have generic Hand-to-Hand: Martial Arts for his combat skill).

So whichever you go with is official, Heroes Unlimited is a world of super-beings after all and the various specialized MA aren't going to unbalance things if a Psychic takes Tae Kwon Do for example.

[Severus Snape]

This is another one of those rules that I don't agree with. You can't take a martial art form if you study magic, are an alien, are a robot, or a cyborg? Bollocks. This ranks right up there with not being able to put the super power of Tentacles in a super invention.

I personally toss that rule right out the window and would allow any power category to select a martial art style, and there is nothing anybody can tell me to prove that one power category can take one and another can't:

• Magic - So you study magic. Everybody had a childhood, and you haven't studied magic your whole life, have you? Not to mention that not all magic characters innately cast magic.
• Alien - So, aliens don't have their own forms of martial arts?
• Robot - Pilots obviously can study martial arts. Robots and androids can be programmed for anything, so why not program them with the techniques of a martial art?
• Cyborg - Same as magic above in that you weren't always a cyborg.

Throw the rule out and allow anyone to take a martial art form.

[AlanGunhouse]

It is a matter if years of study. Aliens would not know HUMAN martial arts unless they have been here long enough (feel free to create Alien Martial arts though). Magic characters have not been studying physical training generally, they have been learning to focus PPE (though some Mystic China magic classes wort with Martial arts specifically). A Robot could be programmed with the techniques of a martial art, but lacks the Chi for many special techniques. Possibly the same for cyborgs.

[Regularguy]

Magic characters have not been studying physical training generally, they have been learning to focus PPE

Yeah, but (as Snape suggested) consider five guys who are all going about their daily lives, earning doctorates and picking up lots of physical skills or whatever. Sure, also consider a sixth guy who instead went the spellcaster route and so can't study N&SS martial arts -- but then come back around to the five I just mentioned:

1) Unexpectedly gets irradiated, becomes mutant with powers.
2) Unexpectedly gets mystically bestowed, gains same powers.
3) Unexpectedly gets experimented on, gains the same powers.
4) Unexpectedly gets a magic weapon, gains the same powers.
5) Unexpectedly gets an enchanted object, gains same powers.

None of 'em learn how to cast spells; why can #1 and #3 learn N&SS martial arts, but #2 and #4 and #5 can't?

[Daniel Stoker]

It also begs the question why can't an Alien learn a martial arts that's the 'same as' a human one? Just because you can get a ride in a space ship shouldn't mean you don't have the time to learn a martial arts on your home planet.


Daniel Stoker

[AlanGunhouse]

It would depend, I think, upon the question of Chi...the character with the Mystic Bestowed, Enchanted Item, or Magic Weapon is put through a mystic wringer as their magic energies become linked to their mystical energy source. This would interfere with their Chi development. It should not effect any martial arts that do not include any form of chi training, but any who do train chi it would throw off.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I would 1st say that the GM notes in the back of N&S are for HU1 and are a little behind the times.

I would let the Magic Item/Weapon and bestowed power cats gain a Non-Chi using MAF at the cost of a skill program.

The only way I would let the mystic study have a MAF would be if it was a Chi Mage. Which is required to be a retired chi using M.Artist.

Aliens: If they are a tech based char, they could only get h2h's, and then only non-mystical h2h's. If they are agent type chars then they could get renamed MAF. (Note, the MAF in N&S and MC are full MA forms, and thus are not h2h's.)

AI's: can't find better words the SS said above.
Cyborgs: unless they knew it before the were borg'ed, they should not have any MAF developed for flesh and blood peeps (thinking of the Battle Angel Alita/Gunnm, where the is MAF developed for FCB.). And then, they should not get any Chi powers they might of had before hand.(thinking of the application of the magic rules about cybernetics.)
----------------------------
Almost totally off topic.
There is a new movie coming out called Bunraku. Looks like a fun MA flick.

[bathawk]

Of course if HU2 is correct and only Special/Physical Training charcaters can have N&S martial arts....that means Mutants can't...which includes Mutanta Animals....which in turn means Leonardo & Raphael are out of luck

[Nightmask]

Of course if HU2 is correct and only Special/Physical Training charcaters can have N&S martial arts....that means Mutants can't...which includes Mutanta Animals....which in turn means Leonardo & Raphael are out of luck

Except that under Mutant Animals it lists the optional background of being trained by a master, generally in some specialized Martial Art, as the Mutant Animal is effectively under the Special/Physical Training category (since a fully anthro mutant animal raised by a human would be no different when it comes to ability to learn a special Martial Art like Ninjitsu or Zanshi).

[Regularguy]

It would depend, I think, upon the question of Chi...the character with the Mystic Bestowed, Enchanted Item, or Magic Weapon is put through a mystic wringer as their magic energies become linked to their mystical energy source. This would interfere with their Chi development.

Why? The mystical energy source of an Enchanted Object guy remains separate from him and available to others -- or, as the book puts it: "PPE of each Enchanted Object: 2d6x10 +90 points. The magic reserve inside the magic object can be shared with wizards or other practitioners of magic ... Some objects magically provide super abilities. Except for their magical origins, these super abilities function exactly like their nonmagical counterparts, except they cost 15 PPE each to activate and use." The character isn't put through a mystic wringer; it's the item that (a) can fuel any such effects and (b) regenerates its own PPE every 24 hours.

Not to mention that various powers don't interfere with chi development, but improve it; consider, say, Karmic Power, or a Healing Factor, or Extraordinary Physical Endurance; N&SS spells out how any of those powers would let a Mutant or an Experiment help along a chi-based martial art; why figure a Mystic Bestowed guy with one or two or even all three would be handicapped instead of helped?

[AlanGunhouse]

Because in the case of a Mutant or Experiment, the development flows with the nature of the person, stemming from their own basic biology. Magic changes are directed by an external source and are not natural to the character (I will agree though, Enchanted Objects, if they are usable by anyone and not linked to the user, might be an exception).

[bathawk]

well without any erratta going to stick with N&S...if my character has 6 skills to "burn" on special martial arts...why not?