What makes up your Fleet?

[taalismn]

Lawyers.
They can cripple a society or speed its progress, they can protect the copyrights of inventors, help pass sweeping and enlightened laws, or they can bury people alive in litigation, snarl progress in red tape, and make lives living hells.
They can be the embodiment of the idealistic crusader or the very epitome of the honorless mercenary
They can be Agents of Light to the voiceless, the powerless, the disenfranchised, or they can in league with Pure Evil to bring down the honest for a few extra shekels in their pockets.

Forget your battlefleets; for every ship you have the Lawyers can launch a THOUSAND LAWSUITS! Then you'll have to deal with SUBPOENAS, and INJUNCTIONS!

And then, even if you have the resources to weather that...there come...
THE AUDITORS.

[Colt47]

From the looks of things I'd probably have a fleet with a significant mix of Naruni and Altess Ships. The primary reason is that the Altess are by far my favorite race in the 3 Galaxies. Prometheans got nothing on these guys (and girls).

[gaby]

Well I have scimitar-class light patrol ship (CAF) as Patrolers

The Explorer class CCW cruiser as my explorers.

I do Not have Phase world Sourcebook or Fleets of the 3 galaxies, so I do not known what biger ships the CCW have.

If you can give me ther names it will help.

[DhAkael]

What ever works... haven't done full on fleet actions yet so...
This is kinda moot point discussion.

[taalismn]

12 commodity class ships, 50,000 fire-spitters.

Are those from the Fleets of the Three Galaxies Dimensional Book?

Fleets of the Three Galaxies, Naruni chapter.

[taalismn]

Rifts Dimensional Outbreak, besides covering Center on Phaseworld, also has demonic fleets and updated Naruni large vessels, as well as some UWW orbital defenses, so it's a good investment too.

Personally, I'm trying to develop independent designs(a lot of which, along with other people's designs, have shown on the Starships thread in this forum...must update!)...Offcamera I've toyed with a battlewagon/cityship concept based on the diea of 'What if the SDF-1 had been reconstructed by the City of Tolkeen(and launched before the CS nuked the place) or by the UWW?'.

[DhAkael]

Ugh...been working on small scale stuff for both the camign(s) i run and the one i'm currently playing in with Cytr.
Brain...melty.

[taalismn]

It sounds like a great campaign already.

My mind is twisting in the wind a bit, and wants me to type, . . . mix in the Splugorth saying, "What the, . . ." and sending their Kittani Forces to intercept your ship, resulting in A.R.C.H.I.E. computing, "Oh, the pretty lights in the night sky look closer than before.", and you go yourself a thumbs up from the Prosek to relocate Tolkeen off the map at no charge.

Maybe it was because I read that bloopers thread, back on the Protocultural Board.

Well, I hope your players enjoy that campaign. Seeing how much some of the members were going at it in that Naruni Capital Ship Crashing in CS Territory Thread, not too long ago.

Not a campaign...an alternate universe, an idea, an excuse to bang things together and see what socio-techno-mongrel emerges. What Einstein would call a Gedankenexperiment (Thought Experiment)

[keir451]

I've used all of them at one time or another, but the most intersting one to date is combining weapon concepts from Macross 2 with nano tech starships and having the fleet be run by Dog Boys & Wolfen from Rifts Earth bent upon conquest of the Three Galaxies in its entirety, they start w/ the Wolfen worlds and expand from there.

[keir451]

I've used all of them at one time or another, but the most intersting one to date is combining weapon concepts from Macross 2 with nano tech starships and having the fleet be run by Dog Boys & Wolfen from Rifts Earth bent upon conquest of the Three Galaxies in its entirety, they start w/ the Wolfen worlds and expand from there.

That sounds like one hell of a howling session.

The Wolf Pack Leader would be so pleased with your efforts.

Funny you should mention "Wolf Pack", they started off as a Wolfen led pack of rogue CS Dog Doy escapees that called themselves "The Wolf Pack" . Some interdimensional contacts led them to our other race of "Martians" (in another setting we (humans) colonized Mars and integrated (read interbred) w/ the surviving Martians) and gained the initial (read starting level) of nano tech that allows the Wolf Pack to be effectiveley immortal as well as the eventual (hundreds of years later) construct the nano vessels.

[taalismn]

Funny you should mention "Wolf Pack", they started off as a Wolfen led pack of rogue CS Dog Doy escapees that called themselves "The Wolf Pack" . Some interdimensional contacts led them to our other race of "Martians" (in another setting we (humans) colonized Mars and integrated (read interbred) w/ the surviving Martians) and gained the initial (read starting level) of nano tech that allows the Wolf Pack to be effectiveley immortal as well as the eventual (hundreds of years later) construct the nano vessels.

When you mentioned "Macross II" and the "Wolfen" together, I thought how familiar that sounded. Then Colonel Jonathan Wolfe and his Wolf Pack was recalled.

Cross Robotech with After the Bomb and good ol' John could very well be a Wolf...

[keir451]

Funny you should mention "Wolf Pack", they started off as a Wolfen led pack of rogue CS Dog Doy escapees that called themselves "The Wolf Pack" . Some interdimensional contacts led them to our other race of "Martians" (in another setting we (humans) colonized Mars and integrated (read interbred) w/ the surviving Martians) and gained the initial (read starting level) of nano tech that allows the Wolf Pack to be effectiveley immortal as well as the eventual (hundreds of years later) construct the nano vessels.

When you mentioned "Macross II" and the "Wolfen" together, I thought how familiar that sounded. Then Colonel Jonathan Wolfe and his Wolf Pack was recalled.

Cross Robotech with After the Bomb and good ol' John could very well be a Wolf...

Yeah I thought of ol Jonny boy myself. The idea of Col. Wolfe AS a wolf is kinda neat, I thin I'll have to steal that one from you Taalismn .

[keir451]

Here's one of my ships; Called the Wraith, it's a nano construct vessel of the "Dagger class" so called because it resembles a dagger in form.
Crew: 4; 1 Captain, 1 pilot/navigator, 1 weapons officer, 1 engineer, plus ships A.I.
Main Body MDC: 20,000
Sublight speed: .99 of light
Main Armament: Triple barreled 240 mm MAC(Magnetic Acceleration Cannon) firing 20 kilos of anitmatter per shot.
effective maneuverability of a Naruni space fighter.
Gravity control: 100%
Power system: Plasma Induction Furnace (uses concepts of magneto hydrodynamics with plasma) effectively unlimited supply and life span.

[keir451]

Here's one of my ships; Called the Wraith, it's a nano construct vessel of the "Dagger class" so called because it resembles a dagger in form.
Crew: 4; 1 Captain, 1 pilot/navigator, 1 weapons officer, 1 engineer, plus ships A.I.
Main Body MDC: 20,000
Sublight speed: .99 of light
Main Armament: Triple barreled 240 mm MAC(Magnetic Acceleration Cannon) firing 20 kilos of anitmatter per shot.
effective maneuverability of a Naruni space fighter.
Gravity control: 100%
Power system: Plasma Induction Furnace (uses concepts of magneto hydrodynamics with plasma) effectively unlimited supply and life span.

Nice.

And that one is a sorta "escort/exploration vessel" one of our heavy hitters is the Bansidhe (Banshee) ist of the Basidhe class. Shaped kinda like the US stealth bomber she's 2 kilometers thru her center (front to back) 6 kilometers from "wing tip to wing tip" and 750 meters high. She's also a nano-construct and is capable of complete self repair and upgrades.
Primary armament: 1 "red shifted particle beam cannon" capable of coring Earth's Moon in a single burn (can be gravitaionally arced to hit targets "hiding" in a planets shadow or where-ever the gunner desires.
Primary anti-ship: 40, particle beam fixed forward ( can be gravitationally arced to strike different quadrants)
Secondary armament: 400 point defense particle beam turrets (100 per quadrant), plus 1,000 point defense lasers (computer controlled)
Note: there are NO misssile systems on this AT ALL, and there never will be. (We hates missile systems on starships ).
Propulsion: 4 large scale Plasma pulse detonation engines powered (again) by Plasma induction furnace
In-System drive: .99 of light, acceleration of .15c per melee (or .01c per second)
Interstelllar Drive: "Jump Drive", 10,000 light years in a single "jump" (this is true of all our ships and happens "instantaneously").
Gravity: Internal, has complete gravitational control.
Shields: Gravitational Shielding 5 layers deep (stacked one on top of each other), 100,000 MD ea..
Quantum Based AI.
MDC: 500,000 for the main hull (Jupiter level gravitationally compressed armor).

[taalismn]

Cross Robotech with After the Bomb and good ol' John could very well be a Wolf...

Why am I thinking about those classic nursery rhymes, . . . Mary had a little lamb, and Little Red Riding Hood? Gosh, I really got into that one.

Congrats, that was suitably unexpected and twisted to gain you entry into the company of Inspired Absurdity and the company of those lucky few who have thus far evaded the attentions of the men with white jackets and butterfly nets.
Goes up there along with the Robotech versions of Gilbert and Sullivan.

Of course 'Jack and the Invid Flower of Life" would just be TOO easy to do(except deciding who to cast as the Giant; Dolza? Khyron?).

[keir451]

@Emperor Ryu; Alas none of my group have any real artitstic talent so we've no designs, floorplans, etc. for any of our ships. Tho' for the Bansidhe there is one place to look for a visual representation. I believe the best image is one from either Xenosga or Xenogears I can't remember which, there was a clip sequence that showed a vessel that fits the description of the Bansidhe.

[taalismn]

We all start with stick figures and spherical trees....fortunately, there are so many tools available nowadays from the traditional pencil and paper to Photoshop and blueprint programs to assist us if we decide to pursue our ideas further.

[keir451]

@Emperor Ryu; Alas none of my group have any real artitstic talent so we've no designs, floorplans, etc. for any of our ships. Tho' for the Bansidhe there is one place to look for a visual representation. I believe the best image is one from either Xenosga or Xenogears I can't remember which, there was a clip sequence that showed a vessel that fits the description of the Bansidhe.

Well, if you don't mind me suggesting, . . . you should try and draw what you imagine, because it may help broaden your interpretations between descriptions and realism. In my opinion, you shouldn't feel incapable, especially when it comes to artistic expressing, when you need to paint a better picture to fit your imagination. In fact, by my own experiences when I take my pencils/pens to paper, it bridges your imagination a whole lot more when you are able to translate your thoughts/imagines to the paper. Then you'll notice you can describe things in more detail than you did before. Like the other day, a kid starts talking to me at a local store, unexpectedly, and asking me how to become a really good comic book artists. I told the lad that all he needed to do was to focus on your main character's life/story. How do you want to have him or her, to live a life? Filled with excitement, action, and/or funny? Then the boy nodded and understood where I was going about the details of the picture he wanted to draw. He thanked me before he left. The whole ordeal was weird to me, but nonetheless a good example that comic books, manga artists, and including animation of both cartoons and anime, convey that sort of sense in their works of art.

So, just try to imagine yourself walking through the corridors of your ship, where the restrooms are, the barracks, the mess hall, the recreation room, the showers/bath, the weapons stations, engineering bay, cargo, the bridge, and airlocks, etc, etc. As if you were spending time on the ship. Then put all of those descriptions onto paper, or on some computer software program.

Oh, one last thing, . . . keep practicing to draw better. Don't be so keen, in both good or bad aspects when you take a final look at your masterpiece, on yourself when your done. Always tell yourself, "That doesn't have to be my last drawing.", and "There is always room for improvement."

Good Luck.

Very sound advice. The only problem is, our ships aren't static, because they're nano-constructs that house an AI as their "personality" and also has a physical form, an avatar, that are predominately female and considered "apart of the family" (yes they can reproduce as well" the ships layouts tend to change as the ship grows in experience.
Case in point; One character started off with a "Dagger" class ship, he crash lande on a palnet and (even after repairs were complete) he decided to remain and the ship literally became his home and grew (literally) to accomadate his ever growing family, until 500,000 years later the ship was the effective size of China (Yes the character is effectively immortal and has lived ALL of those 500,000 years). So trying to plot out living areas the size of the State of Colorado or even Texas is a bit much .

[keir451]

Very sound advice. The only problem is, our ships aren't static, because they're nano-constructs that house an AI as their "personality" and also has a physical form, an avatar, that are predominately female and considered "apart of the family" (yes they can reproduce as well" the ships layouts tend to change as the ship grows in experience. Case in point; One character started off with a "Dagger" class ship, he crash lande on a palnet and (even after repairs were complete) he decided to remain and the ship literally became his home and grew (literally) to accomadate his ever growing family, until 500,000 years later the ship was the effective size of China (Yes the character is effectively immortal and has lived ALL of those 500,000 years). So trying to plot out living areas the size of the State of Colorado or even Texas is a bit much .

Well, you could draw a favorite shape of a ship it likes, and draw the form of the avatar it likes. And you do know that you don't really have to exactly draw to the exact scale of the ship, right?

For the avatars I usuall pick an image for a sexy female chara. off of Deviant Art and run w/it, we can probably shanghai someone into drawing up basic images and such. I would guess it boils down to sheer unadulterated laziness on our parts .

[keir451]

For the avatars I usuall pick an image for a sexy female chara. off of Deviant Art and run w/it, we can probably shanghai someone into drawing up basic images and such. I would guess it boils down to sheer unadulterated laziness on our parts .

You just reminded me of the time our group went into overdrive, as a joke to our GM, about descriptions of the female NPCs in a campaign. Every time he mentioned a female NPC, we would be like, . . . "Does she look like ___(insert female classmate name here)___?", and pulled out the yearbook to see the picture. Good times.

I cannot really blame you, when in fact, there are soooooooo many beautiful women out there in the world, including in our dreams. Though, I am confident that no matter what the image of her avatar becomes, she won't be a disappointment at all.

I should hope so as the relationship between the ships Captain/creator and the ships avatar is essentially one of husband and wife.
If you're familiar w/ Gene Roddenberry's series Andromeda the avatar concept is almost exactly like that one.

[taalismn]

The Teamsters' Union Fleet...
Not even the Kreeghor dare diss the Intergalactic Transport and Dockworkers' Union, 'cause there'd be blood in the airlocks if they did.
Truckers of the Three Galaxies Unite!

They might not have dreadnoughts, but picture having a dozen five hundred-ton shipping containers hitting your planet at an appreciable percentage of light speed...
Multiply that by several hundred since the larger container ships can vote more than twice.

[Vrykolas2k]

Predators... erm, I meant Riathenors.
Mixed with some stuff from the TGE.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I vote UN Spacy, but I would rather have a New UN Spacy (NUNS) fleet, supported by the SMS merc. corp.

[Colt47]

Well, I'd have a fleet make up of four Yennar class destroyers for each Zhokil class battlecruiser. Each Destroyer has 6 Fire-eater attack ships to provide additional support, and the destroyers + fighters are 100% compatible with atmospheric combat (the Zhokils weigh way too much to be able to function well in an atmosphere. If a Naruni Commodity can already cause issues moving around at room temperature and air density speed of Mach 2, a 4.3 million ton battlecruiser is a no no.) I'm still working on the math to get a general idea of what the maximum safe tonnage a ship can be at if it were to enter an atmosphere.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I vote UN Spacy, but I would rather have a New UN Spacy (NUNS) fleet, supported by the SMS merc. corp.

It's all good. I put U.N. Spacy in general, so it doesn't really matter what era.

Thank You for voting.

Is anybody else going to place their vote on this poll?

Actually it does sort of matter which UCS, because there the SDF-1 macross UNS, the M2 UNS, the M+ UNS, the M7 & MF NUNS. (not to mention all the video games fleet compositions) Each one has a different ships and a different mix of ships and fighters.

where some ppl see a minor differences, those with an interest in that particular something (aka: fan, otaku,geek) will see them as major differences.

Go SF Giants. *says the californian*

[Colt47]

Well, I'd have a fleet make up of four Yennar class destroyers for each Zhokil class battlecruiser. Each Destroyer has 6 Fire-eater attack ships to provide additional support, and the destroyers + fighters are 100% compatible with atmospheric combat (the Zhokils weigh way too much to be able to function well in an atmosphere. If a Naruni Commodity can already cause issues moving around at room temperature and air density speed of Mach 2, a 4.3 million ton battlecruiser is a no no.) I'm still working on the math to get a general idea of what the maximum safe tonnage a ship can be at if it were to enter an atmosphere.

I have got to get me this dimensional book soon.

Actually I just went and got out my Aliens Unlimited Galaxies book and am now wondering why they deviated so much from the starship creation rules developed in that particular work. It makes things a lot easier to keep all the ships consistent and easily comparable.

[Colt47]

Actually I just went and got out my Aliens Unlimited Galaxies book and am now wondering why they deviated so much from the starship creation rules developed in that particular work. It makes things a lot easier to keep all the ships consistent and easily comparable.

I didn't get that book either. Could you explain to me what parts of the rules are different between the two books?

The Aliens unlimited book has space ship construction that is based off of the tonnage of the ship and its type. A ship has a certain amount of SDC based on it's type and how many tons the ship is, and the ship also has a number of modules based upon tonnage. Basically it's kind of like Mech Warrior for space ships. It even has rules for making ships with more modules than what is normally given as per the tonnage, which allows the simulation of more powerful ships.

The difference between the Aliens Unlimited galaxies book and the Dimension books regarding the 3 galaxies is that the 3 galaxies books completely ignore the tonnage system and have their own mentality on ship construction. Likewise, variable forcefields seem to be a LOT stronger in the 3 Galaxies than in Aliens Unlimited.

[Colt47]

The Aliens unlimited book has space ship construction that is based off of the tonnage of the ship and its type. A ship has a certain amount of SDC based on it's type and how many tons the ship is, and the ship also has a number of modules based upon tonnage. Basically it's kind of like Mech Warrior for space ships. It even has rules for making ships with more modules than what is normally given as per the tonnage, which allows the simulation of more powerful ships.

The difference between the Aliens Unlimited galaxies book and the Dimension books regarding the 3 galaxies is that the 3 galaxies books completely ignore the tonnage system and have their own mentality on ship construction. Likewise, variable forcefields seem to be a LOT stronger in the 3 Galaxies than in Aliens Unlimited.

So basically what you are saying is that the weigh of the ships are totally different from each other then? If this is the case, won't it imply that the materials to make these ships are different, and not really violate any ship creating system? I know the Mutants In Orbit is quite unique in itself.

Well the system works in such a way that the number of modules a ship can have is mathematically based on the tonnage. Likewise certain classes of ships have a minimum tonnage due to the minimum number of modules they can have. It isn't possible for them to be any lighter due to how the system works, though it DOES allow a ship to have more modules based upon a percentage of the original ship tonnage.

The deal with the 3 galaxies is that it isn't just the tonnage that is different, but the entire design philosophy. The ships in the 3 galaxies books don't even try to follow the ship construction guide lines from Aliens Unlimited Galaxies and have statistics that vary all over the place in different ways. Honestly this game pushes me to my whits end sometimes with how inconsistent it is in the statistics area.

[taalismn]

THrowing my hat in with the CCW, because they're a combined species/combined arms approach with a relatively free society...the most likely place to see power independent forces and arms manufacturers fielding new designs.

[Colt47]

THrowing my hat in with the CCW, because they're a combined species/combined arms approach with a relatively free society...the most likely place to see power independent forces and arms manufacturers fielding new designs.

They also are one of two groups that actually has dreadnaught class starships.

[Vrykolas2k]

Well, the Three Galaxies are radically more advanced than are the peoples of Aliens Unlimited in most areas, and have come further along in regards to micronization.

[Colt47]

Well, for one the variable forcefields are WAY more powerful in 3 galaxies then they are in Aliens Unlimited. However, their are special passive fields that reduce damage taken from certain classes of weapons by half in Aliens Unlimited. Aliens Unlimited wins in my book by virtue of the flexibility in ship construction and if the variable forcefields were magnified to match 3 Galaxies standards it isn't even a contest.

[Ice Dragon]

S.D.F. 1 + Macross Cannons + Synchro Cannons

Nuff said.

Ok, we all know, that good old Splynni owes the S.D.F. 1 .

[Colt47]

Well, for one the variable forcefields are WAY more powerful in 3 galaxies then they are in Aliens Unlimited. However, their are special passive fields that reduce damage taken from certain classes of weapons by half in Aliens Unlimited. Aliens Unlimited wins in my book by virtue of the flexibility in ship construction and if the variable forcefields were magnified to match 3 Galaxies standards it isn't even a contest.

I'm beginning to wonder if these shields help to inspire the Cosmo-Knights in the Three Galaxies?

I'd doubt it. The Cosmo Knight resistance to damage from energy weapons is insane compared to what the alternate protective fields provide. Most of the fields available act like Chromium and halve the damage from certain types of energy weapons.

[Colt47]

I'd doubt it. The Cosmo Knight resistance to damage from energy weapons is insane compared to what the alternate protective fields provide. Most of the fields available act like Chromium and halve the damage from certain types of energy weapons.

Oh, I see. I just figured and assumed that since Aliens Unlimited was published first before Rifts Dimensional Book 2: Phase World.

Do you think a single Cosmo-Knight can do more damage than a ship from Aliens Unlimited?

I'm not entirely sure since I've never ran a Cosmo Knight before. There is only so much munchiness I can handle when dealing with games, let alone an OCC designed specifically to be a munchkin.

[DhAkael]

A thousand little fluffy clouds ridden by unicorns and golden monkeys.
Seriously; until ship creation rules that work or a decent conversion from Aliens Unlimmited: galaxy guide are published (Hint to writers; DO IT!), I just use what ever the heck I feel like.

It's space opera kids; not starfleet battles or a IRL naval actions. Honestly, who has actualy statted out an entire fleet and used it...IN GAME with all dice rolling accounted for?
Anyone?
Didn't think so.
It's all fluff text / naration by the GM.

[Vrykolas2k]

Traix 2 is another awesome book, The toys are ok but the history of the war, the social aspects and other things paint a great picture of one of the only human kingdoms in Europe

Wonderful. I have to get these two books. My local RPG stores are taking way too long of a time getting them in. Its as if they think Palladium went bankrupt or something. At least they are not acting like, . . . "Palladium-who?".

I'm still trying to figure out which Rifter Books has any new stuff for the CS, New Navy, and NGR. I heard there was some good stuff, but I don't know which books they are in.

I haven't gotten the Siege of Tolkeen Books, because I thought they were more like novels, until I checked out the synopsis for one of them, and it stated that there were some new CS stuff. So those books are next after I get the Triax and Three Galaxies books. I think there are three or four books of the Rifts Dimensions I haven't gotten yet, and they're right after the Fleets Of The Three Galaxies on my books-to-get-list.

Beware the Siege on Tolkeen series, unless you're really into meta-plot.

[taalismn]

Seige of Tolkeen has some decent weapons and monstrous minions in some of them, but overall, yah, I'd agree, the metaplot doesn't work for me.

[gaby]

I go with the CCW,s ships.

What are the type of ships you think are missing?

[Shawn Merrow]

Want more U.W.W. ships myself.

[Tyranneix]

I voted for Zentraedi, a specifically created fleet for the 3Gs called the Neo-Zentraedi.

No culture shock, males and females coexist and limits on protoculture usage. Zentraedi and 3G tech mixed in lethal combinations.

I'm thinking a fleet of the following (distributed in 5 battle fleets; 4 main fleets and 1 reserve fleet):

5 Flagships, 250 Command Ships, 50,000 destroyers, 10,000 Landing ships, 100,000 scout ships.

supported by 3 retooled automated factory satellites.

All ships have heavy variable shielding and enhanced armor and weapons systems all upgraded.

All Mecha also have been retooled with variable shields and heavy armor.

[Tyranneix]

Heavy Attack Fighters, Fighter Bombers, Corvettes (patrol and escort), military transports, battlecruisers, carriers (CAF has one but no one else does), recon ships and spy ships, dropships, long range fighters (only have the proctor and starghost so far).

Those are the main ones I am missing.

[Edit: Yes, definitely, I agree with Mr. Merrow. Almost the entire UWW fleet is missing. I rarely rarely use the UWW in my games as a result. Not nerely enough ships to field anything more than a small patrol group or small flotilla. I use UWW agents (even a small group of Marines in a patrol boat might show up), but the group never encounters their fleets and hardly ever visits their worlds. At least fleets finally gave us an elven ship, and a nice cap ship at that. I'd like to see some of their ''non-magic" tech ships that they supposedly have too.]

Agreed.

Want more U.W.W. ships myself.

Seconded.

I voted for Zentraedi, a specifically created fleet for the 3Gs called the Neo-Zentraedi.

No culture shock, males and females coexist and limits on protoculture usage. Zentraedi and 3G tech mixed in lethal combinations.

I'm thinking a fleet of the following (distributed in 5 battle fleets; 4 main fleets and 1 reserve fleet):

5 Flagships, 250 Command Ships, 50,000 destroyers, 10,000 Landing ships, 100,000 scout ships.

supported by 3 retooled automated factory satellites.

All ships have heavy variable shielding and enhanced armor and weapons systems all upgraded.

All Mecha also have been retooled with variable shields and heavy armor.

That's awesome, Tyranneix.

Question becomes, . . . Who would win a fight? Macross/Robotech Ships versus Phase World Ships. Everything that is Macross/Robotech ships, and everything in Rifts Phase World ships.

Robotech/Macross over Phase World hands down. Their weapons have superior range and damage and their hyperspace fold is faster than the FTLs in Phase world.

[Tyranneix]

Robotech/Macross over Phase World hands down. Their weapons have superior range and damage and their hyperspace fold is faster than the FTLs in Phase world.

What is your take on the combat variable application of spatial magic in the mix?

Magic is and always has been the great equalizer. however the rarity of spacial mages to the quantity of Heavy Particle Beam (Reflex cannons; 200,000 mile beams) still put the robotech/macross stuff ahead. sorry but a spacial mage, nor a cosmo knight could withstand a beam that does minimum 1D6x1 million MD to it's target (a planet). most weapons in macross also have 120,000 to 200,000 mile ranges..

The Zentraedi alone in their natural form are shock & awe and daisy cutters. They overwhelm with sheer numerical advantage, speed and heavy firepower. Had Breetai not joined the UNSpacy, no offense the robotech saqa would have ended A LOT sooner. The stupid cartoon series woosified the Zentraedi. Their most recent incarnation (the new Robotech RPG; Macross Saga book) in a phase world setting without conversion or equipment upgrade is still deadly. Give them phase world tech and more importantly the knowledge that magic exists and the ability to learn to counter it and it's game over for the 3 Galaxies. I think out of all the powers,, the UWW and the Prometheans of Phase World itself can give them a good run for their money. against the CCW or the Kreeghor it's game over. They would wipe a doombringer (the single largest published craft in the 3G setting) out way before the Kreeghor fleet could advance within range of their weapons. Maybe the Etherium would stand a chance.. but again, it's only a single Kreeghor vessel. Not nearly enough to stop a fleet hundreds of thousand if not millions strong.

[Tyranneix]

Magic is and always has been the great equalizer. however the rarity of spacial mages to the quantity of Heavy Particle Beam (Reflex cannons; 200,000 mile beams) still put the robotech/macross stuff ahead. sorry but a spacial mage, nor a cosmo knight could withstand a beam that does minimum 1D6x1 million MD to it's target (a planet). most weapons in macross also have 120,000 to 200,000 mile ranges..

The Zentraedi alone in their natural form are shock & awe and daisy cutters. They overwhelm with sheer numerical advantage, speed and heavy firepower. Had Breetai not joined the UNSpacy, no offense the robotech saqa would have ended A LOT sooner. The stupid cartoon series woosified the Zentraedi. Their most recent incarnation (the new Robotech RPG; Macross Saga book) in a phase world setting without conversion or equipment upgrade is still deadly. Give them phase world tech and more importantly the knowledge that magic exists and the ability to learn to counter it and it's game over for the 3 Galaxies. I think out of all the powers,, the UWW and the Prometheans of Phase World itself can give them a good run for their money. against the CCW or the Kreeghor it's game over. They would wipe a doombringer (the single largest published craft in the 3G setting) out way before the Kreeghor fleet could advance within range of their weapons. Maybe the Etherium would stand a chance.. but again, it's only a single Kreeghor vessel. Not nearly enough to stop a fleet hundreds of thousand if not millions strong.

You have some very interesting and very good points there, Tyranneix.

What about your take on the Naruni? Intruders? Splugorth? Dominators perhaps?

Maybe the Dominators could take them on. Especially with the tech of thos worldships of theirs.. Naruni.. they match them in numbers and their mecha would out do the Zentraedi until the Zentraedi became clients.

The Splugorth would counter them with magic and the supernatural but again.. reflex weapons from 200,000 miles.. The Zentraedi would bombard a planet they thought they wouldn't invade.

Intruders would get swept over.. their numbers would be over run.

I'll have to post some of the Neo-Zentraedi stuff here someday.. that would make your head spin.

I've been using the Zentraedi as adversaries for damn near 25 years. my players have learned the hard way that when they detect hyperspace fold operations that the craps about to hit the fan. They may repel the invaders somehow, but they will be limping home doing it.

[Tyranneix]

Maybe the Dominators could take them on. Especially with the tech of thos worldships of theirs.. Naruni.. they match them in numbers and their mecha would out do the Zentraedi until the Zentraedi became clients.

The Splugorth would counter them with magic and the supernatural but again.. reflex weapons from 200,000 miles.. The Zentraedi would bombard a planet they thought they wouldn't invade.

Intruders would get swept over.. their numbers would be over run.

I'll have to post some of the Neo-Zentraedi stuff here someday.. that would make your head spin.

I've been using the Zentraedi as adversaries for damn near 25 years. my players have learned the hard way that when they detect hyperspace fold operations that the craps about to hit the fan. They may repel the invaders somehow, but they will be limping home doing it.

Nice.

Okay, now for a different type of question, . . . Which faction(s) do you think would join up with them?

I look forward to seeing them.

That depends totally on the Zentraedi's first interactions with the 3Gs. I can definitely see a financial and technical alliance with Naruni. The dominators, intruders and Splugorth are just to darn alien for them to understand and they would wipe them out. The CCW might ally out of a sense of preservation when the zentraedi kicked their asses. As the Zentraedi are a warrior race I can see them allying with the Kreeghor, however again more out of the kreeghor trying to manipulate these 30 to 50 ft aliens and gain some of their tech. Any Zentraedi territory with the right numbers would be damn hard to invade.

I can see them frequenting Center for new tech, supplies and intel and what better way to learn about the new galaxies you live in.

[Tyranneix]

That depends totally on the Zentraedi's first interactions with the 3Gs. I can definitely see a financial and technical alliance with Naruni. The dominators, intruders and Splugorth are just to darn alien for them to understand and they would wipe them out. The CCW might ally out of a sense of preservation when the zentraedi kicked their asses. As the Zentraedi are a warrior race I can see them allying with the Kreeghor, however again more out of the kreeghor trying to manipulate these 30 to 50 ft aliens and gain some of their tech. Any Zentraedi territory with the right numbers would be damn hard to invade.

I can see them frequenting Center for new tech, supplies and intel and what better way to learn about the new galaxies you live in.

I agree the Zentraedi would go to war with the Dominators, Intruders, and the Splugorth. I'm no sure about the Kreeghor myself too. Sort of a wild card there. I can definitely see the Zentraedi with the Consortium of Civilized Worlds. How about the United Worlds of Warlocks, and the Prometheans? How do you see them with the Zentraedi?

That would depend totally on how first contact went. The UWW would defy most Zentraedi understanding of Space combat... they are truly the Zentraedi's Wild card.

I can see Promethean staying out of any conflict. They would find out about each other through interactions in Center.

Now here's one for you Ryu. The Free World Council. Now there is a wild card.

[Tyranneix]

That would depend totally on how first contact went. The UWW would defy most Zentraedi understanding of Space combat... they are truly the Zentraedi's Wild card.

I can see Promethean staying out of any conflict. They would find out about each other through interactions in Center.

Now here's one for you Ryu. The Free World Council. Now there is a wild card.

It would be an interesting engagement to see between the Warlocks and Zentraedi.

I can see a First Stage Promethean telling his Second Stage brethren about a new species that he can now look up to, instead of looking down all the time.

Not bad. I can see them trying to recruit the Zentraedi, but will question them about the Splugorth stuff they have.

What about the Altess Dynasty? Central Alliance? Or, how about the Xodian Collective, and the K!ozn Continuum?

They would have Naruni stuff not splugorth. The UWW would also be a good way for the Zentraedi to learn more about magic.

Most of those others would probably either ignore or battle the Zentraedi for the plain reason of what they represent. I giant alien invasion force to the 3 Galaxies. It's been awhile since I've played with the Zentraedi on any galactic level. I'd post my Neo-Zentraedi stuff here but that would be against the PB policy Might have to get those to you in another way.

[Tyranneix]

It would be interesting how that would play out on a Three Galaxies level of play. Let us know how the campaign is going. As for the other thing, I think this scene best describes the situation, . . .

Han Solo: "Han Solo. I'm captain of the Millennium Falcon. Chewie here tells me you're lookin' for passage to the Alderaan system?
Obi-Wan: "Yes indeed, if it's a fast ship."
Han Solo: "Fast ship? You've never heard of the Millennium Falcon?"
Obi-Wan: "Should I have?"
Han Solo: "It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs. I've outrun Imperial starships. Not the local bulk cruisers mind you, I'm talking about the big Corellian ships now. She's fast enough for you old man. What's the cargo?"
Obi-Wan: "Only passengers. Myself, the boy, two droids, . . . and no questions asked."
*Han Solo gives a brief happy laugh*
Han Solo: "What is it? Some kind of local trouble?"
Obi-Wan: "Let's just say we'd like to avoid any Imperial entanglements."

Damn Ryu you were going sooo good until you quoted a known pirate/terrorist and a known religious extremist against the Empire. Hey what can I say, I'm a Stormtrooper!

My friends and I growing up used to play out games on a galactic level. We each had to start , develop and maintain our own galactic superpower thought combat and/or diplomacy, trade agreements and other such things. Some of the tech we developed would overkill the 3 galaxies.

[Tyranneix]

Damn Ryu you were going sooo good until you quoted a known pirate/terrorist and a known religious extremist against the Empire. Hey what can I say, I'm a Stormtrooper!

My friends and I growing up used to play out games on a galactic level. We each had to start , develop and maintain our own galactic superpower thought combat and/or diplomacy, trade agreements and other such things. Some of the tech we developed would overkill the 3 galaxies.

Yeah, I noticed the 501st signature you have there. No disrespect, of course. After all, there was peace between the Republic and the Empire at one time, and did fight side by side in a war. I'm a Jedi after all.

Me and my group had done the same, and I ended up running the whole thing before we stopped.

I have stuff that I'll show you sometime that will curl your toes.

[gaby]

O.k lets limited to list to 3G,s powers only,how das this changed the make up of your Fleet now?

Das any one known how long the Packmaster,Protector,warshield and Hunter been around in the 3g,s timeline?

How do you see the ships that will replace them?