how Many thinkers are needed -

[velcRomanceR]

-to control the masses and stage a successful attack against a well defended position?

By well defended position, I mean much like Incarceration Facilities are set up: 2-4 thick metalled fences spaced a few feet apart (and some have brick walls.) Between the fences and/or within the walls are set snares and pit traps. Inside the barriers are armed snipers. There are more guards able to be assembled at a moment's notice. Twenty people in all. Everyone knows their role and will work absolutely for the good of the group. Minimal electricity is provided by treadmill powered motors. There is enough ammunition to hold off a hundred-zombie attack. There are only the most basic medical supplies. And there is food and water to last the twenty people three years; a green house is on-site. Totally self-sufficient.

[Nightbreed]

It's not so much teaching, as the voice/mind (because as written it was more of a psionic ability) is able to dredge the residue of rote behavior in the zombies minds.

Thanks for confirming what i was theorizing regarding that.

Problem with certain commands is that due to the zombies VERY low I.Q certain commands will fade ("stay" "Guard" etc.) as their memory capacity is now mush. "attack" however is easy.

[Misfit KotLD]

Can the thinkers "teach" the slouchers things? Obviously the slouchers differ from the Romero/Brooksian model zombie because they would HAVE to have at least basic cognitive abilities in order to understand and execute orders, or for communication in general.

It is my understanding that the classic Romero style zombie is aware of nothing other than its prey and the desire to feed. So if it is possible that these simple zombies can accept orders, is it then also possible that they can be taught, or at the very least directed to use tools, build things, execute complex maneuvers, operate machinery, fire weapons, etc?

Fresh off watching the original Night of the Living dead, the Romero zombies could use tools and act in self preservation. One used a rock to bash in a car window, others used wooden clubs to bash in the fortifications made to the house. They also recoiled from fire.

[Brian Manning]

Fresh off watching the original Night of the Living dead, the Romero zombies could use tools and act in self preservation. One used a rock to bash in a car window, others used wooden clubs to bash in the fortifications made to the house. They also recoiled from fire.

I was going to bring that up as well. I re-watched it a couple of years ago, and I was amazed at how much smarter they were than the zombies in later movies. They also moved much quicker when there was a food source in the group (they really scrambled for body parts when people were getting torn apart.

However I'm also a big fan of the Land of the Dead. Everyone seemed to hate that one, because of the "smart" zombie, but I thought they did a fantastic job of portraying zombies just basically moving around on instinct reliving their former lives. Also, during the first raid, I felt bad for the zombies and I was rooting for them for the rest of the movie.

[velcRomanceR]

So how do you get a dog to obey commands without teaching it first?

It's not so much teaching, as the voice/mind (because as written it was more of a psionic ability) is able to dredge the residue of rote behavior in the zombies minds.

Monkeys use clubs all of the time.

For me, it's believable, without any psychic mumbo-jumbo, that a zombie would be able to recognize and be influenced by a stronger-willed zombie. And one of the reasons I believe zombies do not halt their attack on stronger humans is that the need for sustenance outweighs their flight mode.


Zombies, no matter what condition they're in, would still have some, however minute, recollection of their former existence. A zombie Kimbo Slice would still be a b*tch to take down with a shovel or pipe. A zombie technician guarding the United States's nukes may freak out in a distant part of their psyche and press the launch button. (Besides being chased by a sprinting flesh eater, nuclear armageddom scares me most.)

A zombie militia guided by a master zombie is not too far off the mark, is it?

[Nightbreed]

The way I run it?

Not at all.

Does help if a few of the thinkers are expert marksmen eh?

That is one of my surprises i have in store in my game. Good to know that i am somewhat on the same wavelength with the creator of this cool game.

[Nightbreed]

Maybe the zombies would get a savings throw vs willpower? We all know that the zombie appetite is very compelling, so it stands to reason that they could be lured away (either by chance or design) from their assigned duties.

IMHO i say no, the regular zombies are just too stupid to resist a nice walking happy meal to not do what they were told. Thinkers on the other hand should get a saving throw, kinda like a vampire trying to resist the urge to feed on human blood.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

It sure would be interesting for the PCs to have a Thinker as an ally...

[Nightbreed]

That can make for interesting gameplay as well as a possible good story. Sadly it wouldn't work with my group. If/when they find out about the intelligent zombies in my game, taking them out will be a #1 priority for them. (as they cry shenanigans.... )

[velcRomanceR]

Another thought: Do you think a zombie could be fooled into obeying commands from a PC made up to look like a thinker? How do they distinguish themselves from the living? I wonder if either thinkers or regular zombies could be fooled by disguised players.

I haven't read Dead Reign, and now it's been about two hours since I've received Rifter #40, but I speculate "real", as opposed to zombie-dressed PCs, have a distinct smell to them. You may say, "Well, my PC rubs the smell of death all over him from - making sure to avoid the eyes and mouth." I would think that isn't enough. Maybe the zombies subconsciously smell the infection, not the death.

[velcRomanceR]

Is there a difference in PPE between thinkers and other types? Or since they are dead they simply dont have any?

There should be some kind of energy in there, even if it isn't PPE. I could get behind the idea of "un-ppe" like black matter.

The Rifter #40 states Slouchers and Runners have a PPE of 1D6; Thinkers have a PPE of 3D6+ME and rise per level at a rate of 2D6. Another great thing about Thinkers is that their PPE cannot be siphoned without their consent.

[Misfit KotLD]

Another thought: Do you think a zombie could be fooled into obeying commands from a PC made up to look like a thinker? How do they distinguish themselves from the living? I wonder if either thinkers or regular zombies could be fooled by disguised players.

I haven't read Dead Reign, and now it's been about two hours since I've received Rifter #40, but I speculate "real", as opposed to zombie-dressed PCs, have a distinct smell to them. You may say, "Well, my PC rubs the smell of death all over him from - making sure to avoid the eyes and mouth." I would think that isn't enough. Maybe the zombies subconsciously smell the infection, not the death.

Zombies hunt by PPE, like it or lump it that is how they roll.

So no ... unless you are a Death Priest a living human can not safely mingle with the dead.

That's rather low of you.